Interesting

Interesting read, but if you were a ref now, you would think twice about awarding Owen a penalty.

' Owen Dived for Two Penalties Against Argentina in World Cups '


Thursday, 11 October 2012 11:09

LONDON: Former England international Michael Owen (pic) admitted he had fallen down when touched to win penalties when he could hav stayed on his feet but said he would never dive to win a penalty for any side, Reuters reported.

The former Liverpool, Real Madrid and Newcastle striker, now 32, is attempting to revive his career at Premier League Stoke City after an injury-blighted spell at Manchester United ended in the off-season. During a discussion on diving, Owen gave an unusually honest answer to delegates as part of a three-man panel at the Leaders In Football business convention at Stamford Bridge home of European champions Chelsea.

Sitting alongside Pierluigi Collina, the former World Cup referee who is now Uefa's chief refereeing officer, Owen said: "It is in our game, it is happening so fast these days that it is virtually impossible to see whether there was contact.

"I'd say that 75 per cent of players could stay on their feet for a penalty, and if they get touched and go down it is almost, 'hey got touched so it's okay to go down'.

"I have been guilty as well, I played at the 1998 World Cup against Argentina and I was running flat out, got a nudge, went down. Could I have stayed up? Yes, probably."

Looking at Collina, he said: "Then four years later you gave me a penalty again against Argentina. Again, I could have stayed on my feet, the defender's caught me and I did have a decent gash down my shin from it but I could have stayed up."

Alan Shearer converted the penalty that Owen won in 1998 when Argentina beat England on penalties in St Etienne, France. Four years later England beat Argentina 1-0 in Sapporo, Japan when David Beckham scored from the spot.

"It's a very difficult subject to talk about especially to people who have not played the game. There is a major skill in trying to outwit an opponent," Owen explained.

"For the actual player, one-against-one, you're trying to draw people, to commit them, to get into the box because you know as soon as you have got them in the box they are petrified of sticking a leg out or doing anything. It is a skill to get them one-on-one or isolated.

"No one is for blatantly diving, of course they are not, but there is a part of a striker that actually tries to entice the leg to come out to try to win a penalty. It is a skill and it has been done for years and years and I don't think it will ever leave the game.

"I'm totally against diving, I have never been for it or sought to get a penalty without being touched, but you try to push the boundaries to win a game for your team without cheating."

Owen, England's fourth highest scorer with 40 goals from his 89 internationals, made a blistering start to his career scoring at the age of just 18 for England and making a huge impact at the 1998 World Cup in France with a stunning goal against Argentina.

But the second half his career has been played out in the shadow of injuries, although he said he was still optimistic about the future and would love to return to the England side if he could ever recapture the scoring exploits of his youth.

Laughing, he said: "Not only do some people think I retired from England, some people think I've retired from football full stop. No, I'd never retire from international football.

"I have to perform well for my club and if I do that there might be an outside chance of getting back. I don't go to bed thinking of playing for England again. It would be a bonus, but I need to get back on pitch and rediscover my goal scoring touch.

"It's a very intense feeling playing for your country. I don't think people express themselves as well as they do at club level. At that level you feel loved, the fans are on side, you're playing week in week out. There's certainly a bit of fear playing for England. But football still is, and always will be, my number one passion. I'm still as hungry as I was when I was 18."

Owen said he believed that the foreign influence in the English game had been both good and bad.

Diets and fitness had improved and the old drinking culture had disappeared but diving had increased.

"Certainly it was not as prevalent 10 years ago. It's worse than it was 10 years ago," Owen said. "You would have to say that's because of the foreign influence of players from South America, Spain and Italy.

"When I was kid I used to watch Italian football and used to see a lot of simulation. It did not really happen in England.

"It's now a worldwide problem. Now English players are as guilty, but foreign players certainly started the ball rolling in England."

I've always thought of Owen as a diver. It's a shame that so many high profile players are associated with cheating. What chance have we got of persuading the kids that cheats don't prosper, when they clearly do in football?!!

They should bring in the same rule they do in Rugby League - If the referee is uncertain whether someone has made a bad tackle or illegal or high tackle, then they can put a player on report, where it is seen later by an independant panel. If found guilty then the player still carries on in the game but faces the consequences then by a committee who dishes out the penalties like a fine or a ban.
This could be extended in football, if a referee is uncertain about a tackle or whether someone has dived. This makes more sense to me.

This subject really frustrates me The problem lies in the opposite direction to where everyone is looking.

It's not the players it's the referees. How often do referees give fouls for a player unless he fall over Never !!

Look at examples close to home. Last season Joe Mason was frequently tripped/kicked/pushed in the penalty area but never went down and, subsequently, never got a penalty. Chopra, however, was brilliant at getting defenders to stick a leg out and tripping over it

Until referees start giving fouls even where players try to stay on their feet they are always going to go down when touched or even trying to avoid a clattering !! In those circumstances I can't really see a problem and it's very different from "taking a dive" when not even touched i.e. Ashley Young, Suarez, Jordi Lopez, etc.

This subject really frustrates me The problem lies in the opposite direction to where everyone is looking.

It's not the players it's the referees. How often do referees give fouls for a player unless he fall over Never !!

Look at examples close to home. Last season Joe Mason was frequently tripped/kicked/pushed in the penalty area but never went down and, subsequently, never got a penalty. Chopra, however, was brilliant at getting defenders to stick a leg out and tripping over it

Until referees start giving fouls even where players try to stay on their feet they are always going to go down when touched or even trying to avoid a clattering !! In those circumstances I can't really see a problem and it's very different from "taking a dive" when not even touched i.e. Ashley Young, Suarez, Jordi Lopez, etc.

Bale is the worst. On YouTube there are around 10 videos of him diving with no contact at all. Absolute disgrace Bale is.

This subject really frustrates me The problem lies in the opposite direction to where everyone is looking.

It's not the players it's the referees. How often do referees give fouls for a player unless he fall over Never !!

Look at examples close to home. Last season Joe Mason was frequently tripped/kicked/pushed in the penalty area but never went down and, subsequently, never got a penalty. Chopra, however, was brilliant at getting defenders to stick a leg out and tripping over it

Until referees start giving fouls even where players try to stay on their feet they are always going to go down when touched or even trying to avoid a clattering !! In those circumstances I can't really see a problem and it's very different from "taking a dive" when not even touched i.e. Ashley Young, Suarez, Jordi Lopez, etc.

That's like saying that the teachers are to blame for all the unruly schoolkids. The players and managers have to take responsibility as well, just as kids and parents should with behaviour in schools.

But we would take a goal that was a dive of hand ball etc ..........players now play for it , professional foul , hard job for ref

Players should be fined for this behaviour and be given a bad press.

This subject really frustrates me The problem lies in the opposite direction to where everyone is looking.

It's not the players it's the referees. How often do referees give fouls for a player unless he fall over Never !!

Look at examples close to home. Last season Joe Mason was frequently tripped/kicked/pushed in the penalty area but never went down and, subsequently, never got a penalty. Chopra, however, was brilliant at getting defenders to stick a leg out and tripping over it

Until referees start giving fouls even where players try to stay on their feet they are always going to go down when touched or even trying to avoid a clattering !! In those circumstances I can't really see a problem and it's very different from "taking a dive" when not even touched i.e. Ashley Young, Suarez, Jordi Lopez, etc.

That's like saying that the teachers are to blame for all the unruly schoolkids. The players and managers have to take responsibility as well, just as kids and parents should with behaviour in schools.

No, my point is that it can be a foul even if the player doesn't go to ground. However, I can't even remember the last time a referee gave a foul unless the player fell to the ground.

I suppose what I'm saying is that whilst referees adopt this approach it has to be accepted that players will "exaggerate", which is slightly different to those who "fabricate" a foul depite their being no contact

Ideally referees would spot contact and give a foul therefore negating the need for players to fall to the ground

I think there's a big difference between what Owen did and what is beginning to plague the sport now. Owen went down if there was contact. Yes, he could have stayed on his feet but it's the defender's fault for leaving the leg out. Players like Bale, Suarez etc have started going down without any contact. That's where it gets terrible.

Thing is nobody complains when their team gets a penalty via a dive

This subject really frustrates me The problem lies in the opposite direction to where everyone is looking.

It's not the players it's the referees. How often do referees give fouls for a player unless he fall over Never !!

Look at examples close to home. Last season Joe Mason was frequently tripped/kicked/pushed in the penalty area but never went down and, subsequently, never got a penalty. Chopra, however, was brilliant at getting defenders to stick a leg out and tripping over it

Until referees start giving fouls even where players try to stay on their feet they are always going to go down when touched or even trying to avoid a clattering !! In those circumstances I can't really see a problem and it's very different from "taking a dive" when not even touched i.e. Ashley Young, Suarez, Jordi Lopez, etc.

That's like saying that the teachers are to blame for all the unruly schoolkids. The players and managers have to take responsibility as well, just as kids and parents should with behaviour in schools.

No, my point is that it can be a foul even if the player doesn't go to ground. However, I can't even remember the last time a referee gave a foul unless the player fell to the ground.

I suppose what I'm saying is that whilst referees adopt this approach it has to be accepted that players will "exaggerate", which is slightly different to those who "fabricate" a foul depite their being no contact

Ideally referees would spot contact and give a foul therefore negating the need for players to fall to the ground

Oh right, I'm with you. I've certainly seen plenty of that.

I was given the impression that there had been a move in football towards playing advantage (like the rugger buggers) but bringing it back if no advantage was gained. I must have misunderstood but then, when they renamed linespeople "assistant referees" I stupidly thought they would help the refs more, whereas they seem to help them less now than they used to!

It's a funny old game.

I got sent off on Saturday. I swore and the other team all ranted and raved at the ref to send me off, but he just booked me.
This didnt happen 10 years ago. Cheating fuckers drive me mad.

(In fairness I went nuts after that and the ref had to send me off, but thats not the point!)

Diving - its not new is it!

Some of us are old enough to remember Francis Lee, legend of Man City and Derby County amongst others. In the 1971-72 season he scored 33 goals for Man City, 15 of them from the penalty spot. He'd fall over in the penalty area if someone spat on the ground within 10 yards of him.

Gareth Bale and Luiz Suarez would be classed as mere amateurs if "Lee One Pen" as he was known was playing today.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lee

if i remember right glenn hoddle said something at the time that while not telling anyone to dive ,if they got a touch off a defender then to win a penalty .win

This subject really frustrates me The problem lies in the opposite direction to where everyone is looking.

It's not the players it's the referees. How often do referees give fouls for a player unless he fall over Never !!

Look at examples close to home. Last season Joe Mason was frequently tripped/kicked/pushed in the penalty area but never went down and, subsequently, never got a penalty. Chopra, however, was brilliant at getting defenders to stick a leg out and tripping over it

Until referees start giving fouls even where players try to stay on their feet they are always going to go down when touched or even trying to avoid a clattering !! In those circumstances I can't really see a problem and it's very different from "taking a dive" when not even touched i.e. Ashley Young, Suarez, Jordi Lopez, etc.

That's like saying that the teachers are to blame for all the unruly schoolkids. The players and managers have to take responsibility as well, just as kids and parents should with behaviour in schools.

No, my point is that it can be a foul even if the player doesn't go to ground. However, I can't even remember the last time a referee gave a foul unless the player fell to the ground.

I suppose what I'm saying is that whilst referees adopt this approach it has to be accepted that players will "exaggerate", which is slightly different to those who "fabricate" a foul depite their being no contact

Ideally referees would spot contact and give a foul therefore negating the need for players to fall to the ground

Oh right, I'm with you. I've certainly seen plenty of that.

I was given the impression that there had been a move in football towards playing advantage (like the rugger buggers) but bringing it back if no advantage was gained. I must have misunderstood but then, when they renamed linespeople "assistant referees" I stupidly thought they would help the refs more, whereas they seem to help them less now than they used to!

It's a funny old game.

You're right there, not exactly overused the advantage rule in football is it

Look at the Brum game, Bellamy clattered in the penalty area, advantage played as ball was running to Mason he misses but no penalty, go figure

Remember when Drogba did it a lot.. but fairplay he changed his ways and become bigger and stronger.

Diving is horrible.. its like the weak challenges that get Red Cards.

Owen is being honest but if theres contact then you can go down.. Aguero against Qpr could of easily won a penalty but chose to stay on his feet and thump it home..

I think Goalkeepers and Defenders have been clever on the dummy that they might challenge the player but pull out.

Problem is Suarez and that expect contact to come so go down without realising they haven't been touched.. they assume they are going to get challenged so get prepared to fall and get a penalty without any contact being made.