Anti-British sentiment

To all the people that keep on bringing up British history to slag off their homeland: Yes, it is true that the UK had quite some black pages (Just like my home country The Netherlands...and frankly every nation on this planet) in it's history and it's a good thing to speak openly about these events in order to give them a place in history and to prevent them from ever happening again.

But calling the Union Flag 'the butcher's apron' and despising your own country for historic mistakes dating back hundreds of years, makes me sick. I live in a Dutch village of about 800 people and within 15 km of my home there are three major war cemetery's full of thousands of British (Welsh, English Scottish and Northern Irish) American and Canadian soldiers. They fought and died for our liberty and freedom. To say that the Union Jack is a blood drained banner that only symbolizes death and terror isn't only historical unjust, it's also unfair to those people that liberated continental Europe from nazi occupation.

My point is: You have all the right to feel Welsh, not British. You've all the right to feel both. Be proud or be ashamed to live in Britian, be happy or be upset to live in Britain. Whether you've got a negative or positive attitude towards the UK, please base it on what the UK is today. Base your opinion on what your country is now, not on historic errors dating back centuries.

That's all, lads.

Cheers,

Jordy

Cheers Jordy.

Top post.

Too many forget that they can "slag off" our country because we live in one that believes in democracy!!

To all the people that keep on bringing up British history to slag off their homeland: Yes, it is true that the UK had quite some black pages (Just like my home country The Netherlands...and frankly every nation on this planet) in it's history and it's a good thing to speak openly about these events in order to give them a place in history and to prevent them from ever happening again.

But calling the Union Flag 'the butcher's apron' and despising your own country for historic mistakes dating back hundreds of years, makes me sick. I live in a Dutch village of about 800 people and within 15 km of my home there are three major war cemetery's full of thousands of British (Welsh, English Scottish and Northern Irish) American and Canadian soldiers. They fought and died for our liberty and freedom. To say that the Union Jack is a blood drained banner that only symbolizes death and terror isn't only historical unjust, it's also unfair to those people that liberated continental Europe from nazi occupation.

My point is: You have all the right to feel Welsh, not British. You've all the right to feel both. Be proud or be ashamed to live in Britian, be happy or be upset to live in Britain. Whether you've got a negative or positive attitude towards the UK, please base it on what the UK is today. Base your opinion on what your country is now, not on historic errors dating back centuries.

That's all, lads.

Cheers,

Jordy

You make some fair points in your post but unless I've missed something England still rule here in Wales.

You can't ignore history, it's the base of every nation.

thanks for your post and opinion.
my opinion and belief is Welsh not British - based on the attitude and actions of the english towards the Welsh today.

I agree entirely that every country has its dark part of history. And history is just one mistake, one crime, one scandal after another.

Difference is, most nations accept that they have done wrong in the past and that their country committed horrendous crimes, massmurders, started wars etc and they talk open and honest about it in a dignified way.

The U.K. is different there, imo. Wars are glorified, didnt hear a lot of sympathy for those nations who became colonies of the empire after a bloody military conflict. India, Pakistan, South Africa, America, Ireland...etc. Or slavery...?

Heard this so often "Right or wrong - its my country", meaning "I know we have done wrong in the past but because I'm a Brit it was ok and justified and I support the stance of Queen and country"

Imagine a German saying that, defending WW2 or the Holocaust...

And whilst many Brits still (after 67 years) go on and on and on and on about WW2, they would never accept the fact that other nations bear a grudge against them, for the crimes that England / U.K. have committed in its history.

I agree with Jordy about the allied soldiers who liberated Europe from Nazi dictatorship. I am very grateful for their commitment that restored peace and gave us all (Netherlands, France etc and Germany) our freedom back.
There's no doubt about that, thats why us Germans see the allies as our friends, not enemies.
You will hardly find a German who sees the US or the UK as enemies.

A Millwall mate of mine used to absolutely hate the Irish, until the Lions played a pre-season tour there. He came back and is one of the biggest Ireland lovers that I know, as he thought he would be seen as the enemy and the Irish would hate them etc. But it was the quiete opposite, the hospitality was great, he said. Other English I know were very sceptical traveling to Germany for the World Cup in 2006. They came back and they think the world of ze Germans now, as they were welcomed with open arms. And finally some realised "people are people - no matter what nationality". And that's how I see it, too.

I always laugh when people say "my passport says I'm British, so I am proud to be one"...

well, be whatever you like. I am a human being, first of all. And I dont need a piece of paper telling me what I am. I was born in Germany, therefore I am German. And I am not proud being one, I am proud of things that i have achieved and not just coincidence...
If I was born in Wales, I would be Welsh. And as the UK of GB and NIre is a political State (not a country), I would call myself as much British as much as European, as that's, as well, a politican Union. And with the globalisation and the unification of the European market, ALL European Nations need to work closely together to stand up against the strong Asians. We have the Schengen-treaty, meaning on the continent there are no border controls anymore, no customs etc and also that all people from all EU countries can travel and work anywhere in the EU without needing a work-permit or Visa-papers. Passports, Nationalities etc are becoming less and less important, as Europe is slowly but surely merging together.

Welsh and proud and British and proud

The only way any country that england ruled, could get there independence was to shed blood for it.
The things they did to the Irish in there own country was nothing more than pure butchery.
Also they sent in the Black & Tans ,so later they could say, it wasn't english troop it was Scottish troops.
The Black & Tans went into Ireland with the blessing of the english government to rape and kill, and the more they killed the better they were thought of.
Even here in Wales they tried there best to stamp out our Language, a language that is the oldest in Europe.
They also used kids to try to stamp it out,by turning a child against another if they heard a class room friend speak there own language in there own country.
So don't come here and spout off about things that happen back in history, If you forget your history, you will be condemned to relive it. I for one do not want to see this kind of thing happen in my country again and , any true Welshman wouldn't want to see it happen again.
Do you know that we can get to France faster that we can get to North Wales ? Why ? cos it was the english way of conquer then dived. They give more to one than the other, then you will breed hate between the same race of people then you have won, for they have done the job for you. THAT IS THE FKING english way of government, and you want me to forgive this ?
Would you forgive someone who rapes a member of your family ? and takes away there pride ?

The only way any country that england ruled, could get there independence was to shed blood for it.
The things they did to the Irish in there own country was nothing more than pure butchery.
Also they sent in the Black & Tans ,so later they could say, it wasn't english troop it was Scottish troops.
The Black & Tans went into Ireland with the blessing of the english government to rape and kill, and the more they killed the better they were thought of.
Even here in Wales they tried there best to stamp out our Language, a language that is the oldest in Europe.
They also used kids to try to stamp it out,by turning a child against another if they heard a class room friend speak there own language in there own country.
So don't come here and spout off about things that happen back in history, If you forget your history, you will be condemned to relive it. I for one do not want to see this kind of thing happen in my country again and , any true Welshman wouldn't want to see it happen again.
Do you know that we can get to France faster that we can get to North Wales ? Why ? cos it was the english way of conquer then dived. They give more to one than the other, then you will breed hate between the same race of people then you have won, for they have done the job for you. THAT IS THE FKING english way of government, and you want me to forgive this ?
Would you forgive someone who rapes a member of your family ? and takes away there pride ?

Have to agree here ---and if the Union Jack flag Jordy refers to is bloodstained, its a good thing that Wales is not on it. Roll on Independence in a couple of years time and to be free of the English invaders once and for all.

The only way any country that england ruled, could get there independence was to shed blood for it.
The things they did to the Irish in there own country was nothing more than pure butchery.
Also they sent in the Black & Tans ,so later they could say, it wasn't english troop it was Scottish troops.
The Black & Tans went into Ireland with the blessing of the english government to rape and kill, and the more they killed the better they were thought of.
Even here in Wales they tried there best to stamp out our Language, a language that is the oldest in Europe.
They also used kids to try to stamp it out,by turning a child against another if they heard a class room friend speak there own language in there own country.
So don't come here and spout off about things that happen back in history, If you forget your history, you will be condemned to relive it. I for one do not want to see this kind of thing happen in my country again and , any true Welshman wouldn't want to see it happen again.
Do you know that we can get to France faster that we can get to North Wales ? Why ? cos it was the english way of conquer then dived. They give more to one than the other, then you will breed hate between the same race of people then you have won, for they have done the job for you. THAT IS THE FKING english way of government, and you want me to forgive this ?
Would you forgive someone who rapes a member of your family ? and takes away there pride ?

Have to agree here ---and if the Union Jack flag Jordy refers to is bloodstained, its a good thing that Wales is not on it. Roll on Independence in a couple of years time and to be free of the English invaders once and for all.

Yet you continue to moan about us not being represented??

Thank you for highlighting some of the words in my post but you are obviously way out of your depth with this discussion.

Thank you for highlighting some of the words in my post but you are obviously way out of your depth with this discussion.

Hardly I still dont understand how you can moan about not being represented but then hate being part of the UK? Cant have both doesnt make sense

The only way any country that england ruled, could get there independence was to shed blood for it.
The things they did to the Irish in there own country was nothing more than pure butchery.
Also they sent in the Black & Tans ,so later they could say, it wasn't english troop it was Scottish troops.
The Black & Tans went into Ireland with the blessing of the english government to rape and kill, and the more they killed the better they were thought of.
Even here in Wales they tried there best to stamp out our Language, a language that is the oldest in Europe.
They also used kids to try to stamp it out,by turning a child against another if they heard a class room friend speak there own language in there own country.
So don't come here and spout off about things that happen back in history, If you forget your history, you will be condemned to relive it. I for one do not want to see this kind of thing happen in my country again and , any true Welshman wouldn't want to see it happen again.
Do you know that we can get to France faster that we can get to North Wales ? Why ? cos it was the english way of conquer then dived. They give more to one than the other, then you will breed hate between the same race of people then you have won, for they have done the job for you. THAT IS THE FKING english way of government, and you want me to forgive this ?
Would you forgive someone who rapes a member of your family ? and takes away there pride ?

Excellent post, a nation that forgets it's history has no should and cannot look forward. It is such a shame, as we see from many posts on here that so many are not aware of their history and the way we have been treated by the English. But that has always been the way of the conquerer-rid the people of their history and as we know only too well history is always written by the conqueror.

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The only way any country that england ruled, could get there independence was to shed blood for it.
The things they did to the Irish in there own country was nothing more than pure butchery.
Also they sent in the Black & Tans ,so later they could say, it wasn't english troop it was Scottish troops.
The Black & Tans went into Ireland with the blessing of the english government to rape and kill, and the more they killed the better they were thought of.
Even here in Wales they tried there best to stamp out our Language, a language that is the oldest in Europe.
They also used kids to try to stamp it out,by turning a child against another if they heard a class room friend speak there own language in there own country.
So don't come here and spout off about things that happen back in history, If you forget your history, you will be condemned to relive it. I for one do not want to see this kind of thing happen in my country again and , any true Welshman wouldn't want to see it happen again.
Do you know that we can get to France faster that we can get to North Wales ? Why ? cos it was the english way of conquer then dived. They give more to one than the other, then you will breed hate between the same race of people then you have won, for they have done the job for you. THAT IS THE FKING english way of government, and you want me to forgive this ?
Would you forgive someone who rapes a member of your family ? and takes away there pride ?

Are you saying the IRA were the good guys? Cause if what I was told was correct, then they should be killed, including McGuiness or what his name is....Hiding behind Irish civilians in a firefight with British troops, which led to civilians fatalities. The British Army are portrayed as murderers. Was it ok for the IRA to let bombs off in England then? Killing BRITISH civilians?

I understand what you mean about how the British government piss on Wales, I really do, the political system needs a shake up. But, I can't think of how Wales could sustain itself as an independent state.

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The flag does represent our country, if represents the unification of Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland & England, plus all of our over-seas territories.

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The flag does represent our country, if represents the unification of Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland & England, plus all of our over-seas territories.

Don't talk Rubbish, Wales is not on that butchers apron, so how do it stand for Wales. Also I wouldn't want to be on that so called flag. Scotland & N Ireland yes but Wales NO !

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The flag does represent our country, if represents the unification of Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland & England, plus all of our over-seas territories.

Don't talk Rubbish, Wales is not on that butchers apron, so how do it stand for Wales. Also I wouldn't want to be on that so called flag. Scotland & N Ireland yes but Wales NO !

I'll repeat what I said, THE UNION JACK IS REPRESENTING THE UNIFICATION BETWEEN ALL FOUR HOME NATIONS AND ALL OVER-SEAS TERRITORIES. How is it the butchers apron?

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The flag does represent our country, if represents the unification of Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland & England, plus all of our over-seas territories.

Don't talk Rubbish, Wales is not on that butchers apron, so how do it stand for Wales. Also I wouldn't want to be on that so called flag. Scotland & N Ireland yes but Wales NO !

I'll repeat what I said, THE UNION JACK IS REPRESENTING THE UNIFICATION BETWEEN ALL FOUR HOME NATIONS AND ALL OVER-SEAS TERRITORIES. How is it the butchers apron?

The Union Flag is made up of the cross of St George (England), the cross of St Andrew (Scotland) and the cross of St Patrick (Ireland). Wales is not represented, that's simply because the English tried to get rid of us completely with the 1536 act of union which joined Wales on to England. We must be resilient lot because after all these year of persecution we're still here.
Da ni yma o hyd!

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The flag does represent our country, if represents the unification of Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland & England, plus all of our over-seas territories.

Don't talk Rubbish, Wales is not on that butchers apron, so how do it stand for Wales. Also I wouldn't want to be on that so called flag. Scotland & N Ireland yes but Wales NO !

I'll repeat what I said, THE UNION JACK IS REPRESENTING THE UNIFICATION BETWEEN ALL FOUR HOME NATIONS AND ALL OVER-SEAS TERRITORIES. How is it the butchers apron?

The Union Flag is made up of the cross of St George (England), the cross of St Andrew (Scotland) and the cross of St Patrick (Ireland). Wales is not represented, that's simply because the English tried to get rid of us completely with the 1536 act of union which joined Wales on to England. We must be resilient lot because after all these year of persecution we're still here.
Da ni yma o hyd!

I give up, I'm not going to get it into your heads and I will just repeat myself.

We are not being represented as a Nation, and make no mistake Wales is a Nation.
There are many country's in the Olympics that are very small country's and they wave there flag with pride.
We have one of ,if not the best flag in the world, and its not there, we have to walk under a flag that don't represent our country.
I love my country and want to see the flag of my country being flown next to all the other nations of the world.
In the opening ceremony ,we seen steel being made, but no one who was watch would know that it was Merthyr that first sent steel all over the world. Yet did they show that, ? the N.H.S was put into place By a Welshman Aneurin Bevan,was that told or shown to be Welsh ? NO!
WAKE UP ! We are WELSH, stand up for your country & flag !

The flag does represent our country, if represents the unification of Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland & England, plus all of our over-seas territories.

Don't talk Rubbish, Wales is not on that butchers apron, so how do it stand for Wales. Also I wouldn't want to be on that so called flag. Scotland & N Ireland yes but Wales NO !

I'll repeat what I said, THE UNION JACK IS REPRESENTING THE UNIFICATION BETWEEN ALL FOUR HOME NATIONS AND ALL OVER-SEAS TERRITORIES. How is it the butchers apron?

The Union Flag is made up of the cross of St George (England), the cross of St Andrew (Scotland) and the cross of St Patrick (Ireland). Wales is not represented, that's simply because the English tried to get rid of us completely with the 1536 act of union which joined Wales on to England. We must be resilient lot because after all these year of persecution we're still here.
Da ni yma o hyd!

I give up, I'm not going to get it into your heads and I will just repeat myself.

Just let them carry on with their bitterness. I bet the english havent done anything to them

YOU DICK ! haven't done anything to us ? They tried to kill our language, and when you kill a nations language ,you kill that nation. Get really you Pr--K.

LOVE THE english ?

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

YOU DICK ! haven't done anything to us ? They tried to kill our language, and when you kill a nations language ,you kill that nation. Get really you Pr--K.

I meant personally not as in our nation I know full well what they did but I dont hold a grudge against it seeing as we are still thriving and have our language. I cant be bothered to argue over this

YOU DICK ! haven't done anything to us ? They tried to kill our language, and when you kill a nations language ,you kill that nation. Get really you Pr--K.

I meant personally not as in our nation I know full well what they did but I dont hold a grudge against it seeing as we are still thriving and have our language. I cant be bothered to argue over this

I would think not ! look above your last post !

YOU DICK ! haven't done anything to us ? They tried to kill our language, and when you kill a nations language ,you kill that nation. Get really you Pr--K.

I meant personally not as in our nation I know full well what they did but I dont hold a grudge against it seeing as we are still thriving and have our language. I cant be bothered to argue over this

I would think not ! look above your last post !

As if we have never sung or said anything about the english If anyone calls me a sheepshagger I just take it with pride because it means nothing

Really annoys me to see so many anti british sentiments on the MB.

I am welsh, served in a welsh regiment etc and am extremely proud to be british. People moan about all the "bad things" that the british/english did over the centuries - but they tend to forget everything positive that was contributed to the benefit of the world.

A lot of these countries particulary in africa and the far east were allowed to develop under the "empire" and although not in ideal situations benefited from this as well.

Yes we fought wars, name me a country who hasn't, a lot of them were for control over colonies but so was nearly other country in europe, but we were just better at it!! Most of these wars were based on control of trade routes etc and that is why we became "Great" sometining that a lot of you moan that we no longer are.

We did not start slavery, always been there - a lot of it started in africa itself - every conquering nation has taken slaves - ok I will confess that we exploited the use of slaves but we were one of the first to abolish as well.

As for the "irish" moan - well lets just say that we hold enquiries when something goes wrong they (IRA/UDF) etc do not have to.... they can just blame the cruel brits.........but then send their kids to thro stones the the troops so that they have a decent target to shoot at.............happened hundreds of times resulting in british fatalities.

I am welsh but would never want a bunch of self important individuals as the WAG governing me...........our strength has always been part of the UK and being british - long may it continue.

YOU DICK ! haven't done anything to us ? They tried to kill our language, and when you kill a nations language ,you kill that nation. Get really you Pr--K.

You really don't get it, do you? I think you mean by 'they' the English and by 'us' or 'our' the Welsh. Just bear in mind that in today's United Kingdom you're allowed to speak whatever language you like, whether it's Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish, Russian or Swahili.

In fact, because of people like you, moaning on about historic faillures and presenting it as an excuse for your narrow-minded bigotry, Britain is becoming less of a pleasant place. Because of the 'guilt' current generations feel, you cannot debate some problems openly without being called a racist. The UK, a fine and diverse liberal democracy in which peoples of all faiths, colours and backgrounds are accepted, is becoming more and more dominated by a very radical and aggresive form of Islam. A place that celebrated diversity on all levels is becoming less tolerant because the intolerant are being tolerated.

Why do people like you keep on moaning about events in the past, but wouldn't you see that a militant form of intolerance is gaining ground in your country.

YOU DICK ! haven't done anything to us ? They tried to kill our language, and when you kill a nations language ,you kill that nation. Get really you Pr--K.

You really don't get it, do you? I think you mean by 'they' the English and by 'us' or 'our' the Welsh. Just bear in mind that in today's United Kingdom you're allowed to speak whatever language you like, whether it's Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish, Russian or Swahili.

In fact, because of people like you, moaning on about historic faillures and presenting it as an excuse for your narrow-minded bigotry, Britain is becoming less of a pleasant place. Because of the 'guilt' current generations feel, you cannot debate some problems openly without being called a racist. The UK, a fine and diverse liberal democracy in which peoples of all faiths, colours and backgrounds are accepted, is becoming more and more dominated by a very radical and aggresive form of Islam. A place that celebrated diversity on all levels is becoming less tolerant because the intolerant are being tolerated.

Why do people like you keep on moaning about events in the past, but wouldn't you see that a militant form of intolerance is gaining ground in your country.

WRONG WRONG WRONG ! There are still businesses that will not let there staff speak Welsh in there own country.
You should read the news more you will fined a story about a hotel stopping there staff from speaking Welsh in there home town.
So dont come here shouting your mouth off about things you are not even up on !!

If an englishman goes to work in , lets say Germany or spain , would you expect them to speak english just cos you work there ?