the increase in debt over the past two years?

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

Loss of over a million a month makes more than 25 million in debt straight away. None of us know the true figures but add the interest on all the debts and it's going to be a big number.
The blind faith shown by fans to first Sam and now the Malaysians is why we're up shit creek without a paddle yet again.

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

Loss of over a million a month makes more than 25 million in debt straight away. None of us know the true figures but add the interest on all the debts and it's going to be a big number.
The blind faith shown by fans to first Sam and now the Malaysians is why we're up shit creek without a paddle yet again.

And how do you know that a huge part of the £1m p/m is not going towards paying off other historical debt? When VT came in we still owed millions on the stadium build, both fitting out and to PMG. Remember Food Shine from Newport, they issued a winding up order against us but it never reached court because a payment plan was agreed.

So (for example because I do-not know the precise figures) £750k of that £1m goes toward paying off historical debt. That would mean we are losing only £250,000 a month (around £3m p/a) not £12m or more. Debt would be paying off debt for now and eventually the new debt owed to VT would be converted into equity.

That is the plan as I see it, but of course nothing is set in stone.

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

Loss of over a million a month makes more than 25 million in debt straight away. None of us know the true figures but add the interest on all the debts and it's going to be a big number.
The blind faith shown by fans to first Sam and now the Malaysians is why we're up shit creek without a paddle yet again.

So the malaysians are getting all this stick for plunging us further in debt when in simple terms all they are doing is keeping the club afloat?
Isn't the original debt more culpable?

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

Loss of over a million a month makes more than 25 million in debt straight away. None of us know the true figures but add the interest on all the debts and it's going to be a big number.
The blind faith shown by fans to first Sam and now the Malaysians is why we're up shit creek without a paddle yet again.

And how do you know that a huge part of the £1m p/m is not going towards paying off other historical debt? When VT came in we still owed millions on the stadium build, both fitting out and to PMG. Remember Food Shine from Newport, they issued a winding up order against us but it never reached court because a payment plan was agreed.

So (for example because I do-not know the precise figures) £750k of that £1m goes toward paying off historical debt. That would mean we are losing only £250,000 a month (around £3m p/a) not £12m or more. Debt would be paying off debt for now and eventually the new debt owed to VT would be converted into equity.

That is the plan as I see it, but of course nothing is set in stone.

Bang on.

My thoughts on the debt situatiom is very similar to the above.

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

Loss of over a million a month makes more than 25 million in debt straight away. None of us know the true figures but add the interest on all the debts and it's going to be a big number.
The blind faith shown by fans to first Sam and now the Malaysians is why we're up shit creek without a paddle yet again.

And how do you know that a huge part of the £1m p/m is not going towards paying off other historical debt? When VT came in we still owed millions on the stadium build, both fitting out and to PMG. Remember Food Shine from Newport, they issued a winding up order against us but it never reached court because a payment plan was agreed.

So (for example because I do-not know the precise figures) £750k of that £1m goes toward paying off historical debt. That would mean we are losing only £250,000 a month (around £3m p/a) not £12m or more. Debt would be paying off debt for now and eventually the new debt owed to VT would be converted into equity.

That is the plan as I see it, but of course nothing is set in stone.

Tony

I am well aware that you and I usually fall out over the drop of a hat , but I really am trying to be polite and civil in my response here.

You are totally mixing up cashflow and profits in your post.

The trading losses of the club have been at an average of £1m a month for the two year period up to 31 May 2011 (the May 2010 figures only being reduced by "one-off" exceptional sales of land , including Ninian Park).Each year showed a £12m trading loss before those exceptionals.

You are referring to cash flows in your post , not profits.We know that Vincent Tan put in £20m of cash between 31 May 2011 and the beginning of June 2012 because he said so in the recent club official statement. That would have covered the cash hole caused by losses in the year (we don`t know that figure yet) plus , as you say , an element of old debt repayment (and up front transfer fees paid possibly).

So the losses are not reduced by paying off old debts , paying them off is in addition to the cash needed to fund the losses.

Keith

It has been said on this forum that the clubs overall debt has increased by £50m over the past two years.
Is there any evidence of this?
What has the money been spent on?

Loss of over a million a month makes more than 25 million in debt straight away. None of us know the true figures but add the interest on all the debts and it's going to be a big number.
The blind faith shown by fans to first Sam and now the Malaysians is why we're up shit creek without a paddle yet again.

And how do you know that a huge part of the £1m p/m is not going towards paying off other historical debt? When VT came in we still owed millions on the stadium build, both fitting out and to PMG. Remember Food Shine from Newport, they issued a winding up order against us but it never reached court because a payment plan was agreed.

So (for example because I do-not know the precise figures) £750k of that £1m goes toward paying off historical debt. That would mean we are losing only £250,000 a month (around £3m p/a) not £12m or more. Debt would be paying off debt for now and eventually the new debt owed to VT would be converted into equity.

That is the plan as I see it, but of course nothing is set in stone.

This is also how I see it Tony.

The first season under the Malaysian's stewardship went with pretty much no income due to the previous regime. Season Ticket money gone, massive tax bills, TV money mortgaged, the list goes on.

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

I started this topic specifically to find the answers to those questions so I obviously don't know. If the Malaysians are so bad at the running the club what is your alternative?

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

I started this topic specifically to find the answers to those questions so I obviously don't know. If the Malaysians are so bad at the running the club what is your alternative?

2 years ago we were a viable club, £30 odd mill in debt incl Langstons, which even then Sam would of taken £10 mill, so really our debt was peanuts, when u consider 18,500 season ticket holders/new stadium/Accademy etc, but now we are in their hands as it is now £82 mill and they dictate, but I dont have to like it and just because I have strongly said I want to stay Blue and keep my Badge, I have been slaughtered by certain fans for not accepting Red.

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

I started this topic specifically to find the answers to those questions so I obviously don't know. If the Malaysians are so bad at the running the club what is your alternative?

We stop paying Premier League wages to Championship players would be a fine start.

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

I started this topic specifically to find the answers to those questions so I obviously don't know. If the Malaysians are so bad at the running the club what is your alternative?

2 years ago we were a viable club, £30 odd mill in debt incl Langstons, which even then Sam would of taken £10 mill, so really our debt was peanuts, when u consider 18,500 season ticket holders/new stadium/Accademy etc, but now we are in their hands as it is now £82 mill and they dictate, but I dont have to like it and just because I have strongly said I want to stay Blue and keep my Badge, I have been slaughtered by certain fans for not accepting Red.

Two years ago we were facing a winding up order. I'm not 'slaughtering' anyone for not accepting red. Your saying the Malaysians are doing a bad job running the club and the loses should be decreasing. What is your alternative?

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

I started this topic specifically to find the answers to those questions so I obviously don't know. If the Malaysians are so bad at the running the club what is your alternative?

2 years ago we were a viable club, £30 odd mill in debt incl Langstons, which even then Sam would of taken £10 mill, so really our debt was peanuts, when u consider 18,500 season ticket holders/new stadium/Accademy etc, but now we are in their hands as it is now £82 mill and they dictate, but I dont have to like it and just because I have strongly said I want to stay Blue and keep my Badge, I have been slaughtered by certain fans for not accepting Red.

Two years ago we were facing a winding up order. I'm not 'slaughtering' anyone for not accepting red. Your saying the Malaysians are doing a bad job running the club and the loses should be decreasing. What is your alternative?

There is no alternative because of the mess Sam / Ridsdale and the Malaysians have made chasing a dream thats turned into a nightmare.

That doesnt mean the Malaysians are doing a good job. Far from it. They are learning their football trade with us and making a lot of expensive mistakes.

Signing a player (Earnie) the manager doesnt even want ffs.

There is no alternative because of the mess Sam / Ridsdale and the Malaysians have made chasing a dream thats turned into a nightmare.

That doesnt mean the Malaysians are doing a good job. Far from it. They are learning their football trade with us and making a lot of expensive mistakes.

Signing a player (Earnie) the manager doesnt even want ffs.[/quote]

There is no alternative because the Malaysians are the only ones willing to pump money into the club and we are slating them for it.

Annis - Can you provide the debt figures over the past few years to show that the debt has increased under the malaysian regime?

Whether the debt has increased or not, I cant see how the blame can be played on the Malaysians. Prior to the Malaysians taking control the running of the club was being financed by the sale of land around the new stadium, the sale of ninian park and also player sales (Ramsey, Roger, Gunter et al). Since Vincent Tan has become involved we have not sold any asset for a significant sum as far as I am aware. This means that the running of the club has had to be funded from his own funds. Whether this is in the form of a loan is irelevant as you cannot expect anybody to plow cash into the club which they do not own outright as other shareholders are going to benefit.

The process of developing the new stadium was not done well. More costs have arose which wasn't planned and we are receiving less income due to the land being sold off. The malaysian have come into this mess, not caused it. You cannot expect a business losing millions of pounds and have millions in debt to suddenly make a profit over night. It takes time and this is what they need, as well as patience from the fans.

Nobody wants the rebranding, but they obvioulsy think it will be a benefit. Lets give them a chance to see what happens before attacking them.

Annis you are not being slaughtered for not turning red it's the way you are ridiculing and constant digs at those who are accepting the rebranding that's the difference everyone is untitled to their own opinion without others trying to persuade them of theirs. Its not just you I must add and now it's got out of hand by both sides

Annis - Can you provide the debt figures over the past few years to show that the debt has increased under the malaysian regime?

Whether the debt has increased or not, I cant see how the blame can be played on the Malaysians. Prior to the Malaysians taking control the running of the club was being financed by the sale of land around the new stadium, the sale of ninian park and also player sales (Ramsey, Roger, Gunter et al). Since Vincent Tan has become involved we have not sold any asset for a significant sum as far as I am aware. This means that the running of the club has had to be funded from his own funds. Whether this is in the form of a loan is irelevant as you cannot expect anybody to plow cash into the club which they do not own outright as other shareholders are going to benefit.

The process of developing the new stadium was not done well. More costs have arose which wasn't planned and we are receiving less income due to the land being sold off. The malaysian have come into this mess, not caused it. You cannot expect a business losing millions of pounds and have millions in debt to suddenly make a profit over night. It takes time and this is what they need, as well as patience from the fans.

Nobody wants the rebranding, but they obvioulsy think it will be a benefit. Lets give them a chance to see what happens before attacking them.

the most sense i have read for an awful long time...

Annis - Can you provide the debt figures over the past few years to show that the debt has increased under the malaysian regime?

Whether the debt has increased or not, I cant see how the blame can be played on the Malaysians. Prior to the Malaysians taking control the running of the club was being financed by the sale of land around the new stadium, the sale of ninian park and also player sales (Ramsey, Roger, Gunter et al). Since Vincent Tan has become involved we have not sold any asset for a significant sum as far as I am aware. This means that the running of the club has had to be funded from his own funds. Whether this is in the form of a loan is irelevant as you cannot expect anybody to plow cash into the club which they do not own outright as other shareholders are going to benefit.

The process of developing the new stadium was not done well. More costs have arose which wasn't planned and we are receiving less income due to the land being sold off. The malaysian have come into this mess, not caused it. You cannot expect a business losing millions of pounds and have millions in debt to suddenly make a profit over night. It takes time and this is what they need, as well as patience from the fans.

Nobody wants the rebranding, but they obvioulsy think it will be a benefit. Lets give them a chance to see what happens before attacking them.

He can,t provide the figures, i already asked him this question about three weeks ago without any response!!

Annis - Can you provide the debt figures over the past few years to show that the debt has increased under the malaysian regime?

Whether the debt has increased or not, I cant see how the blame can be played on the Malaysians. Prior to the Malaysians taking control the running of the club was being financed by the sale of land around the new stadium, the sale of ninian park and also player sales (Ramsey, Roger, Gunter et al). Since Vincent Tan has become involved we have not sold any asset for a significant sum as far as I am aware. This means that the running of the club has had to be funded from his own funds. Whether this is in the form of a loan is irelevant as you cannot expect anybody to plow cash into the club which they do not own outright as other shareholders are going to benefit.

The process of developing the new stadium was not done well. More costs have arose which wasn't planned and we are receiving less income due to the land being sold off. The malaysian have come into this mess, not caused it. You cannot expect a business losing millions of pounds and have millions in debt to suddenly make a profit over night. It takes time and this is what they need, as well as patience from the fans.

Nobody wants the rebranding, but they obvioulsy think it will be a benefit. Lets give them a chance to see what happens before attacking them.

Good on you mate.

Yes it is about £82 mill and rem u all laughed when Carl and I said £72 mill before and guess what it was, £72 mill when the accounts came out.

We have not paid off PMG/RAY RANSON or LANGSTON.

I don't remember laughing at that. What has caused this sharp increase in debt? Who else would pay £1.5m a month to keep the clubs head above water?

U tell me why we are losing all this money ?
Why is the debt increasing weekly/monthly ?
They have been here 2 years now, so surely the loses should of stopped ? but instead increased, I would love to know why, as many debts are still there from when they arrived, could they or someone explain ?

I started this topic specifically to find the answers to those questions so I obviously don't know. If the Malaysians are so bad at the running the club what is your alternative?

2 years ago we were a viable club, £30 odd mill in debt incl Langstons, which even then Sam would of taken £10 mill, so really our debt was peanuts, when u consider 18,500 season ticket holders/new stadium/Accademy etc, but now we are in their hands as it is now £82 mill and they dictate, but I dont have to like it and just because I have strongly said I want to stay Blue and keep my Badge, I have been slaughtered by certain fans for not accepting Red.

So if they're business handling is so bad why were you welcoming them with open arms up until the rebranding???

by Forever Blue » Sat May 12, 2012 8:51 am

I am hearing this morning.
They are going no where and will continue to pledge their future to us .
I honestly now believe we will hear only good news next week.

As fans of our club we were all entitled to our opinions and should continue to do so, but we should not turn nasty on each other just because we dont agree with the same things, the same goes towards Vincent Tan, if we dont agree say your opinion, but give respect with it. Also dont let other fans scare you from your own honest opinions as you have the same right as the next fan.

Originally in the first meeting we were told it had to be how VT wanted it no matter what, by the next meeting VT had compromised and listened to the fans.

This Summer will be a very exciting one.


UPDATED.

TG will not be coming to Cardiff now till Monday at the earliest, as he has a business meeting to attend to in London first, the board meeting will now prob take place on Tuesday at Cardiff City stadium.




Also good to hear VT is paying off what is owed to get the statue done as we would prob have had to wait many more years.

Lets hope Malky gets now fully supported with everything he needs to get us to the promise land.


No mention of debt here Annis?? You were happy to accept them here???

Annis - Can you provide the debt figures over the past few years to show that the debt has increased under the malaysian regime?

Whether the debt has increased or not, I cant see how the blame can be played on the Malaysians. Prior to the Malaysians taking control the running of the club was being financed by the sale of land around the new stadium, the sale of ninian park and also player sales (Ramsey, Roger, Gunter et al). Since Vincent Tan has become involved we have not sold any asset for a significant sum as far as I am aware. This means that the running of the club has had to be funded from his own funds. Whether this is in the form of a loan is irelevant as you cannot expect anybody to plow cash into the club which they do not own outright as other shareholders are going to benefit.

The process of developing the new stadium was not done well. More costs have arose which wasn't planned and we are receiving less income due to the land being sold off. The malaysian have come into this mess, not caused it. You cannot expect a business losing millions of pounds and have millions in debt to suddenly make a profit over night. It takes time and this is what they need, as well as patience from the fans.

Nobody wants the rebranding, but they obvioulsy think it will be a benefit. Lets give them a chance to see what happens before attacking them.

Good on you mate.

Just look at our accounts and see for yourself and who else has been running our club for the last 2 years.

Annis - Can you provide the debt figures over the past few years to show that the debt has increased under the malaysian regime?

Whether the debt has increased or not, I cant see how the blame can be played on the Malaysians. Prior to the Malaysians taking control the running of the club was being financed by the sale of land around the new stadium, the sale of ninian park and also player sales (Ramsey, Roger, Gunter et al). Since Vincent Tan has become involved we have not sold any asset for a significant sum as far as I am aware. This means that the running of the club has had to be funded from his own funds. Whether this is in the form of a loan is irelevant as you cannot expect anybody to plow cash into the club which they do not own outright as other shareholders are going to benefit.

The process of developing the new stadium was not done well. More costs have arose which wasn't planned and we are receiving less income due to the land being sold off. The malaysian have come into this mess, not caused it. You cannot expect a business losing millions of pounds and have millions in debt to suddenly make a profit over night. It takes time and this is what they need, as well as patience from the fans.

Nobody wants the rebranding, but they obvioulsy think it will be a benefit. Lets give them a chance to see what happens before attacking them.

He can,t provide the figures, i already asked him this question about three weeks ago without any response!!

Uve already had it confirmed publicly in the media a couple of months ago, u need to change your avitar.

by Forever Blue » Sat May 12, 2012 8:51 am

I am hearing this morning.
They are going no where and will continue to pledge their future to us .
I honestly now believe we will hear only good news next week.

As fans of our club we were all entitled to our opinions and should continue to do so, but we should not turn nasty on each other just because we dont agree with the same things, the same goes towards Vincent Tan, if we dont agree say your opinion, but give respect with it. Also dont let other fans scare you from your own honest opinions as you have the same right as the next fan.

Originally in the first meeting we were told it had to be how VT wanted it no matter what, by the next meeting VT had compromised and listened to the fans.

This Summer will be a very exciting one.


UPDATED.

TG will not be coming to Cardiff now till Monday at the earliest, as he has a business meeting to attend to in London first, the board meeting will now prob take place on Tuesday at Cardiff City stadium.




Also good to hear VT is paying off what is owed to get the statue done as we would prob have had to wait many more years.

Lets hope Malky gets now fully supported with everything he needs to get us to the promise land.


No mention of debt here Annis?? You were happy to accept them here???

Not answering this question then? Understand rebranding has and you are unhappy but why your change in stance on debt issue???

I posted at the end of Feburary that the club was in debt of around £70million.

The thread was called 'Surely it can't continue'.

I outlined the debt and at that time I said the Malaysians had put in £36million, since then VT has stated that he has put in nearly £41million.

Add that to Langston (£24million+), PMG (£6million), Ranson (£3.5million) and you can quite clearly see that we are well over the £70million with other smaller debts we have.

We have to sort out the Langston debt first as part of the rebranding so VT will turn his debt to equity.

I posted at the end of Feburary that the club was in debt of around £70million.

The thread was called 'Surely it can't continue'.

I outlined the debt and at that time I said the Malaysians had put in £36million, since then VT has stated that he has put in nearly £41million.

Add that to Langston (£24million+), PMG (£6million), Ranson (£3.5million) and you can quite clearly see that we are well over the £70million with other smaller debts we have.

We have to sort out the Langston debt first as part of the rebranding so VT will turn his debt to equity.

In summary................ were fucked