" REASONS WHY VINCENT TAN WILL STAY WITH CITY "

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do NOT believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do not believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

Edited your post for you!

That last sentence is a bit worrying

I think it'll be a building process and any expectations of a huge warchest will be off the mark.

However i still expect us to be putting bids in if the right player comes along, especially if they are players who Malky thinks he can develop.

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

You believe he is off soon after saying all that?

Last edited by rhys1927ccfc on Wed May 30, 2012 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do not believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

Edited your post for you!

Oops

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

Good post.
Glad it was edited for you Carl.

That last sentence is a bit worrying

I think it'll be a building process and any expectations of a huge warchest will be off the mark.

However i still expect us to be putting bids in if the right player comes along, especially if they are players who Malky thinks he can develop.

I don't think it will be £20million or anything like it Tim but certainly we will be seeing several million spent ( or at least try to spend )

I don't think he will walk away but you're reasons are flawed. In accounting terms the £40m already 'invested' is a sunk cost and therefore irrelevant for future decision making. All he would consider now is how much would he need to invest going forward and what return is he likely to make. Unless of course City areeast really a business to him and more a passionate interest / hobby in the vein of Man City

I don't think he will walk away but you're reasons are flawed. In accounting terms the £40m already 'invested' is a sunk cost and therefore irrelevant for future decision making. All he would consider now is how much would he need to invest going forward and what return is he likely to make. Unless of course City are nit really a business to him and more a passionate interest / hobby in the vein of Man City

So do you think he would not want a return on the already invested £40million ?

But what about the 100 million - is that all off now? If so, that is very bad news, when that was there on a plate for us.

If it is off, that is a major own goal we've scored, in my opinion, especially given the way that the fair play rules are coming in with penalties attached to them after another season.

But what about the 100 million - is that all off now? If so, that is very bad news, when that was there on a plate for us.

If it is off, that is a major own goal we've scored, in my opinion, especially given the way that the fair play rules are coming in with penalties attached to them after another season.

Another reason I believe we will have decent crack at promotion this season.

But what about the 100 million - is that all off now? If so, that is very bad news, when that was there on a plate for us.

If it is off, that is a major own goal we've scored, in my opinion, especially given the way that the fair play rules are coming in with penalties attached to them after another season.

Another reason I believe we will have decent crack at promotion this season.

I dont think he wants to have a crack at promotion carl because of the bagage who will all want more money if we get there and thats one of the reasons we never let rip last season with players unless we can ditch pmg/sam ect first then i doubt he will slash out for the prem.

I don't think he will walk away but you're reasons are flawed. In accounting terms the £40m already 'invested' is a sunk cost and therefore irrelevant for future decision making. All he would consider now is how much would he need to invest going forward and what return is he likely to make. Unless of course City are nit really a business to him and more a passionate interest / hobby in the vein of Man City

So do you think he would not want a return on the already invested £40million ?

Of course ideally but what im saying is that that £40m is spent, gone. Now it's all about what he needs to spend further in order to make a return, probably via promotion. If he felt the risk was too great he can't and wont worry about past expenditure. It's the old saying cutting your losses. Otherwise youre like the gambler you keeps betting more and more for that big win that gets all your money back.

But what about the 100 million - is that all off now? If so, that is very bad news, when that was there on a plate for us.

If it is off, that is a major own goal we've scored, in my opinion, especially given the way that the fair play rules are coming in with penalties attached to them after another season.

Another reason I believe we will have decent crack at promotion this season.

Obviously, it will be good news if we do have a decent crack at promotion this coming season.

Do you however now get the feeling that the £100 million package that had been ear marked for us is gone without any chance of it being brought back as a full package this coming season (including all the re-branding that VT wanted).

If that is now dead in the water, its a major shame, as the recent poll results have shown that there is a strong likelihood that the majority of fans would actually have been content with the proposals - I know some would have been only reluctantly - and if that is now no longer an option, we may have missed a major opportunity, I fear.

Often, I have been critical/sceptical of some of your posts Carl. On this occasion, I agree wholeheartedly

I don't think he will walk away but you're reasons are flawed. In accounting terms the £40m already 'invested' is a sunk cost and therefore irrelevant for future decision making. All he would consider now is how much would he need to invest going forward and what return is he likely to make. Unless of course City are nit really a business to him and more a passionate interest / hobby in the vein of Man City

So do you think he would not want a return on the already invested £40million ?

Of course ideally but what im saying is that that £40m is spent, gone. Now it's all about what he needs to spend further in order to make a return, probably via promotion. If he felt the risk was too great he can't and wont worry about past expenditure. It's the old saying cutting your losses. Otherwise youre like the gambler you keeps betting more and more for that big win that gets all your money back.

I have a similar worry, in that if VT sees that money as having already been largely lost, then he won't throw more 'good' money (i.e. money he has not yet spent) after that bad money that he may accept as lost.

In fact, the only way he could get some of that money back would be in the following 2 ways as far as I can see :

1. get in new investors (very unlikely in the current climate)
2. attempt as a secured creditor to realise as much of the money as he can back (by player sales and possibly any money that can be raised from any land that the club owns).

This last option though could see the club not only put into admin, but possibly even liquidated, and this has been my fear throughout.

The alternative that Carl is outlining as what he thinks VT will do has never seemed likely to me - it would mean VT losing another 12 million (and possibly a lot more if he made a real attempt at team strengthening) in the unlikely prospect that we would get promotion at the end of the season - its not completely impossible, but seems a bit of a gamble at long odds to say the least for me. If Carl is right, then it's not catastrophic this year, but what about next May, if we fail again?

It's a very hard pill to swallow if this is now what we're faced with, when the £100 million investment seemed there on a plate for us only a few weeks ago.

Last edited by Die Walkure on Wed May 30, 2012 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Exactly he and TG are staying, they have fallen in love I saw it in their eyes at the Palace Game !!!

I reckon like others they are sounding us out on the rebranding and seeing how far they can go and how quickly .....

Half of it will go through this year and the rest steadily in the seasons to come IMO...

Exactly he and TG are staying, they have fallen in love I saw it in their eyes at the Palace Game !!!

I reckon like others they are sounding us out on the rebranding and seeing how far they can go and how quickly .....

Half of it will go through this year and the rest steadily in the seasons to come IMO...

@ the fallen in love bit , some of are fans never cease to amaze me with things like this.

I don't think he will walk away but you're reasons are flawed. In accounting terms the £40m already 'invested' is a sunk cost and therefore irrelevant for future decision making. All he would consider now is how much would he need to invest going forward and what return is he likely to make. Unless of course City are nit really a business to him and more a passionate interest / hobby in the vein of Man City

So do you think he would not want a return on the already invested £40million ?

Of course ideally but what im saying is that that £40m is spent, gone. Now it's all about what he needs to spend further in order to make a return, probably via promotion. If he felt the risk was too great he can't and wont worry about past expenditure. It's the old saying cutting your losses. Otherwise youre like the gambler you keeps betting more and more for that big win that gets all your money back.

I have a similar worry, in that if VT sees that money as having already been largely lost, then he won't throw more 'good' money (i.e. money he has not yet spent) after that bad money that he may accept as lost.

In fact, the only way he could get some of that money back would be in the following 2 ways as far as I can see :

1. get in new investors (very unlikely in the current climate)
2. attempt as a secured creditor to realise as much of the money as he can back (by player sales and possibly any money that can be raised from any land that the club owns).

This last option though could see the club not only put into admion, but possibly even liquidated, and this has been my fear throughout.

The alternative that Carl is outlining as what he thinks VT will do has never seemed likely to me - it would mean VT losing another 12 million (and possibly a lot more if he made a real attempt at team strengthening) in the unlikely prospect that we would get promotion at the end of the season - its not completely impossible, but seems a bit of a gamble at long odds to say the least for me. If Carl is right, then it's not catastrophic this year, but what about next May, if we fail again?

It's a very hard pill to swallow if this is now what we're faced with, when the £100 million investment seemed there on a plate for us only a few weeks ago.

Agree entirely and just hope that people realise that he could well walk away and having spent a lot of money in the part does not in any way tie him in to the future. Not saying he will but there seems to be a mindset with some that without the £100m it will all be fine as he will carry on pumping the same level of money in ad infinitum. Head in sand I think.

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do NOT believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

The only problem with all that is its not a business rationale. Your first loss is your best loss. If he now thinks he cannot make an end return of course he will walk from a £40m loss as its better than a £60m loss. Hope your right but it wont be because he has already spent £40m. (oh and his money is likely to be secured so any asset sales probably go to him first! Sam gets nowt.)

Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

The level of debt is scary but the 7% rate is a bargain. Not that we are really paying it as by pumping money in every month VT is pretty much paying himself

Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

Difference is the twenty million debt was completely unsustainable as we had owners that didn't have the fin ance to keep paying the debts so it looked a lot worse than it looks now.


Also I don't see why you keep up this obsession with the 7% interest.

As far as I'm aware they aren't charging the interest yet but more importantly that's a much /much/ lower rate than we'd get from an independent lender because of Cardiff's awful credit rating. And 4% interest is what's required to break even on money so you can't expect them to charge much less because of the huge risks they;re taking.

Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

No owner loves his club ubless hes from their... Hamman didnt invest in us because he loved us he grew to love us! An of course there was uproar before because we had hardly any chance of paying it off ... Now we do you cant compar these situations in my opinion

Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

Difference is the twenty million debt was completely unsustainable as we had owners that didn't have the fin ance to keep paying the debts so it looked a lot worse than it looks now.


Also I don't see why you keep up this obsession with the 7% interest.

As far as I'm aware they aren't charging the interest yet but more importantly that's a much /much/ lower rate than we'd get from an independent lender because of Cardiff's awful credit rating. And 4% interest is what's required to break even on money so you can't expect them to charge much less because of the huge risks they;re taking.

certainly, given the situation, 7% is definitely not unreasonable.

by Aramore » Wed May 30, 2012 11:21 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

Aramore wrote

Difference is the twenty million debt was completely unsustainable as we had owners that didn't have the fin ance to keep paying the debts so it looked a lot worse than it looks now.



Forever Blue wrote

But we had a squad worth £30 mill plus, what is the squad worth now ?
Regarding interest, I am just showing no one gives us anything for nothing.

Has anyone loaned us money lower than 7%?

by Aramore » Wed May 30, 2012 11:21 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

Aramore wrote

Difference is the twenty million debt was completely unsustainable as we had owners that didn't have the fin ance to keep paying the debts so it looked a lot worse than it looks now.



Forever blue wrote

But we had a squad worth £30 mill plus, what is the squad worth now ?
Regarding interest, I am just showing no one gives us anything for nothing.

£30m? Really? How come when the shit hit the fan I can't remember us getting multiple millions when we had to offload a load of players.

by Aramore » Wed May 30, 2012 11:21 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
Just 2 things Carlos.

Its well past the £40 mill that they have now lent our club at 7% interest to the club and its well over £70 mill that our club are now in debt. Funny when we were £20 odd mill in debt and in the Championship there was up roar by our fans, now were well over £70 mill in debt and still in the Championship.

VT does not love us, he is here to make money and be a success.
But I agree, I 100% do not believe VT will walk away from the money and also he does not do failure. So VT is here till everything is sorted and we get success and they can sell us on.

Aramore wrote

Difference is the twenty million debt was completely unsustainable as we had owners that didn't have the fin ance to keep paying the debts so it looked a lot worse than it looks now.



Forever Blue wrote

But we had a squad worth £30 mill plus, what is the squad worth now ?
Regarding interest, I am just showing no one gives us anything for nothing.

What players were worth this amount of money then?

1. VT has invested £40million so far in City and I don't believe anyone (no matter how rich they are) would walk away from that sort of money.

2. This club owes a lot of money to different people and the debt is in the books at £70million, no other investor will see this club as a good prospect whilst we are in the championship with this level of debt. To get other investors involved I believe VT would have to deal with the likes of Langston, PMG, Ray Ranson etc before any other investor would get involved, there are too many permutations if these are not dealt with beforehand.

3. VT is putting over £1million per month to keep this club afloat, he needs to keep doing so and keep hold of our better players and strengthen the squad if we are to get into the PL. The only way VT will make money (and let's be honest that is why he is involved) is if we are in the PL.

It is my opinion that VT will put a budget together to give Malky the best possible chance of promotion to the PL and then he can begin to deal with the other factors of debt and possible investors.

All of the above is my opinion and I do NOT believe VT is heading off anytime soon.

At last a post with a little positivity with no mention of going bust or playing in the lower leagues. It makes you wonder though as to why VT did not invest in the Jan transfer window when we were in the top 3.