Is the left wing in Wales killing off growth..?

They all are jealous of people in business trying to benefit themselves and slam taxes on them like the carrier bag tax or business rates going through the roof!!!

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

Why is there so much politics on this board lately? I though CCMB was the one for all that nonsense

people in business trying to benefit themselves

I would have thought that a government trying to ensure a citizen or third parties business dealings dont merely benefit selfishness (or detrimentally impact on society) would be a fairly reasoned way to operate?

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

Why is there so much politics on this board lately? I though CCMB was the one for all that nonsense

I was thinking the same just now.
Immegrenat threads x a million etc etc

Fine if people want to debate stuff but when someone doesn't agree they decide to start a new thread all the time

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

Interesting, I suppose it's difficult to police really.
I agree with the charge but it has do be done properly.

people in business trying to benefit themselves

I would have thought that a government trying to ensure a citizen or third parties business dealings dont merely benefit selfishness (or detrimentally impact on society) would be a fairly reasoned way to operate?

Someone who goes into business is doing it to benefit their lifestyle before anything else and as they are taking the financial risk then I say that they deserve all the credit and if the jealous types showed that kinda of mindset then we wouldn't have such a public/private sector spilt in this country

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

I'm not sure if you understand the policy completely, but regarding the voluntary scheme to donate the proceeds of the plastic bag charge to a good cause, it is exactly that: a voluntary agreement. There is nothing to police.

As for the reasoning towards introduction of the carrier bag levy, perhaps this may show you what the actual reasons for implementing the legislation was - note the lack of emphasis, if any, on the actual 5p charge.

We want to promote wider use of reusable bags to conserve our limited resources, encourage sustainability, and cut down on waste and litter. We are committed to reducing the amount of single use carrier bags used in Wales. Currently Wales uses an estimated 480 million a year.

(Source:WAG Website)

Last edited by tylerdurdenisabluebird on Sun May 06, 2012 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

Interesting, I suppose it's difficult to police really.
I agree with the charge but it has do be done properly.

There are 'certain' business owners who I have recently come across who are boosting that its another income stream for them and I dare say that these businessmen weren't of UK origin

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

I'm not sure if you understand the policy completely, but regarding the voluntary scheme to donate the proceeds of the plastic bag charge to a good cause, it is exactly that: a voluntary agreement. There is nothing to police.

As for the intention of the carrier bag levy, perhaps this may show you what the actual reasons for implementing the legislation was - note the lack of emphasis, if any, on the actual 5p charge.

We want to promote wider use of reusable bags to conserve our limited resources, encourage sustainability, and cut down on waste and litter. We are committed to reducing the amount of single use carrier bags used in Wales. Currently Wales uses an estimated 480 million a year.

So if there's nothing to Police then why is there fines in place for businesses who don't charge..?

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

Interesting, I suppose it's difficult to police really.
I agree with the charge but it has do be done properly.

There are 'certain' business owners who I have recently come across who are boosting that its another income stream for them and I dare say that these businessmen weren't of UK origin

It's very sad indeed, it's the charity who loses out at the end of the day.
I guess in terms of people using less bags it works.

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

I'm not sure if you understand the policy completely, but regarding the voluntary scheme to donate the proceeds of the plastic bag charge to a good cause, it is exactly that: a voluntary agreement. There is nothing to police.

As for the intention of the carrier bag levy, perhaps this may show you what the actual reasons for implementing the legislation was - note the lack of emphasis, if any, on the actual 5p charge.

We want to promote wider use of reusable bags to conserve our limited resources, encourage sustainability, and cut down on waste and litter. We are committed to reducing the amount of single use carrier bags used in Wales. Currently Wales uses an estimated 480 million a year.

So if there's nothing to Police then why is there fines in place for businesses who don't charge..?

You're original point wasn't referring to businesses not charging for the bags, which is covered in that quote above (i.e. there are probably fines due to free single use bags going against the whole body of the legislation, the enforceable part): your complaint is that not all businesses are donating the 5p charge to charity. In that regard, nothing is to be policed. Hope that cleared it up for you.

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

I'm not sure if you understand the policy completely, but regarding the voluntary scheme to donate the proceeds of the plastic bag charge to a good cause, it is exactly that: a voluntary agreement. There is nothing to police.

As for the intention of the carrier bag levy, perhaps this may show you what the actual reasons for implementing the legislation was - note the lack of emphasis, if any, on the actual 5p charge.

We want to promote wider use of reusable bags to conserve our limited resources, encourage sustainability, and cut down on waste and litter. We are committed to reducing the amount of single use carrier bags used in Wales. Currently Wales uses an estimated 480 million a year.

So if there's nothing to Police then why is there fines in place for businesses who don't charge..?

You're original point wasn't referring to businesses not charging for the bags, which is covered in that quote above (i.e. there are probably fines due to free single use bags going against the whole body of the legislation, the enforceable part): your complaint is that not all businesses are donating the 5p charge to charity. In that regard, nothing is to be policed. Hope that cleared it up for you.

Well if you followed the conversation you would have seen that I was merely answering a question put to me by 2blue.

What's the problem with the carrier bag tax?

The problem with the carrier bag tax is that its not being policed and the bad business owners are keeping the 5p for themselves and not doing what its meant to be doing and thats to be passed down to local charities. Same old WAG really can't even put a simple law together without their being flaws amongst it.

I'm not sure if you understand the policy completely, but regarding the voluntary scheme to donate the proceeds of the plastic bag charge to a good cause, it is exactly that: a voluntary agreement. There is nothing to police.

As for the intention of the carrier bag levy, perhaps this may show you what the actual reasons for implementing the legislation was - note the lack of emphasis, if any, on the actual 5p charge.

We want to promote wider use of reusable bags to conserve our limited resources, encourage sustainability, and cut down on waste and litter. We are committed to reducing the amount of single use carrier bags used in Wales. Currently Wales uses an estimated 480 million a year.

So if there's nothing to Police then why is there fines in place for businesses who don't charge..?

You're original point wasn't referring to businesses not charging for the bags, which is covered in that quote above (i.e. there are probably fines due to free single use bags going against the whole body of the legislation, the enforceable part): your complaint is that not all businesses are donating the 5p charge to charity. In that regard, nothing is to be policed. Hope that cleared it up for you.

Well if you followed the conversation you would have seen that I was merely answering a question put to me by 2blue.

I have followed it Adam, I suggest you stop trying to dodge bullets.

You stated a perceived problem you had with the 5p single use carrier bag levy; I showed you evidence from the source to show you that your perceived problems with such a 'left wing' implementation of policy were unfounded.

[quote="tylerdurdenisabluebird"]My original point was that the left wing in Wales is taxing too much hense why growth is a huge issue. The carrier bag tax is a tax on the good business owners who are imediately being forced to charge more for a product and a competitor in England because of the packaging. And also there is another issue that corner shop businessmen who aren't of UK origin are using it as another income stream because they aren't passing on the charge to local charities.

My original point was that the left wing in Wales is taxing too much hense why growth is a huge issue. The carrier bag tax is a tax on the good business owners who are imediately being forced to charge more for a product and a competitor in England because of the packaging. And also there is another issue that corner shop businessmen who aren't of UK origin are using it as another income stream because they aren't passing on the charge to local charities.

and the proof that its only businessmen who are not of UK origin is where.
though i agree if they are going to have a tax it should be better policed rather than and this is the WAG talking 'we cant control where the money goes'

My original point was that the left wing in Wales is taxing too much hense why growth is a huge issue. The carrier bag tax is a tax on the good business owners who are imediately being forced to charge more for a product and a competitor in England because of the packaging. And also there is another issue that corner shop businessmen who aren't of UK origin are using it as another income stream because they aren't passing on the charge to local charities.

and the proof that its only businessmen who are not of UK origin is where.
though i agree if they are going to have a tax it should be better policed rather than and this is the WAG talking 'we cant control where the money goes'

Did I or did I not say that Ive spoken to businessmen recently who were claiming that they are treating the tax as another revenue stream..? and did I or did I not say that the businessmen in question were not of UK origin..?

My original point was that the left wing in Wales is taxing too much hense why growth is a huge issue. The carrier bag tax is a tax on the good business owners who are imediately being forced to charge more for a product and a competitor in England because of the packaging. And also there is another issue that corner shop businessmen who aren't of UK origin are using it as another income stream because they aren't passing on the charge to local charities.

and the proof that its only businessmen who are not of UK origin is where.
though i agree if they are going to have a tax it should be better policed rather than and this is the WAG talking 'we cant control where the money goes'

Did I or did I not say that Ive spoken to businessmen recently who were claiming that they are treating the tax as another revenue stream..? and did I or did I not say that the businessmen in question were not of UK origin..?

yes i know what you said im asking for proof
if the WAG doesnt want to police it, its going to happen
and i dare say its not only businessmen not of UK origin pocketing the money so your argument doesnt stand
plenty of businesses avoid tax like the plague are you really surprised that this 'tax' and i use the term loosely is treated any different.

My original point was that the left wing in Wales is taxing too much hense why growth is a huge issue. The carrier bag tax is a tax on the good business owners who are imediately being forced to charge more for a product and a competitor in England because of the packaging. And also there is another issue that corner shop businessmen who aren't of UK origin are using it as another income stream because they aren't passing on the charge to local charities.

and the proof that its only businessmen who are not of UK origin is where.
though i agree if they are going to have a tax it should be better policed rather than and this is the WAG talking 'we cant control where the money goes'

Did I or did I not say that Ive spoken to businessmen recently who were claiming that they are treating the tax as another revenue stream..? and did I or did I not say that the businessmen in question were not of UK origin..?

yes i know what you said im asking for proof
if the WAG doesnt want to police it, its going to happen
and i dare say its not only businessmen not of UK origin pocketing the money so your argument doesnt stand
plenty of businesses avoid tax like the plague are you really surprised that this 'tax' and i use the term loosely is treated any different.

Why should I prove YOU with proof..? I am saying what Ive come across during months of talking to shopkeepers and if YOU don't want to believe me then thats up too up but I know what I am saying is FACT. Do you name and shame individuals on the internet who tell you something in private..? I don't think so. All I will state is that these individuals are of non UK origin so my arguement DOES stand.

Before you went on your liberial namby pamby stance I will ask the question again. 'Is the left wing in Wales killing off growth because of the aditional taxes put on businesses here..?'

My original point was that the left wing in Wales is taxing too much hense why growth is a huge issue. The carrier bag tax is a tax on the good business owners who are imediately being forced to charge more for a product and a competitor in England because of the packaging. And also there is another issue that corner shop businessmen who aren't of UK origin are using it as another income stream because they aren't passing on the charge to local charities.

and the proof that its only businessmen who are not of UK origin is where.
though i agree if they are going to have a tax it should be better policed rather than and this is the WAG talking 'we cant control where the money goes'

Did I or did I not say that Ive spoken to businessmen recently who were claiming that they are treating the tax as another revenue stream..? and did I or did I not say that the businessmen in question were not of UK origin..?

yes i know what you said im asking for proof
if the WAG doesnt want to police it, its going to happen
and i dare say its not only businessmen not of UK origin pocketing the money so your argument doesnt stand
plenty of businesses avoid tax like the plague are you really surprised that this 'tax' and i use the term loosely is treated any different.

Why should I prove YOU with proof..? I am saying what Ive come across during months of talking to shopkeepers and if YOU don't want to believe me then thats up too up but I know what I am saying is FACT. Do you name and shame individuals on the internet who tell you something in private..? I don't think so. All I will state is that these individuals are of non UK origin so my arguement DOES stand.

Before you went on your liberial namby pamby stance I will ask the question again. 'Is the left wing in Wales killing off growth because of the aditional taxes put on businesses here..?'

well its simple if you say something back it up with evidence and you dont have to name and shame a percentage of people you spoke to would be an interesting start.
as for additional taxes
i dont believe the bag tax is a massive strain on business, after all the customer isnt forced to buy a bag, not like VAT where if you increase the percentage it will have a direct effect on business.
as for sending the money to charity i hope that most businesses do but if the government are not willing to police the tax its not beyond a reasonable doubt that someone would take advantage, and i have yet to find a successful cure for greed.

oh and being a liberal isnt as mamby pamby as you make out
it takes a certain level of intelligence to see both sides of an argument and then deduce a formulated and active response.

The bag tax works for me. It not only helps mother earth but it has done wonders for my health. As i refuse to buy a bag i find myself trying to lump my 12 bottles of magners home from the local offie i seem to always drop and smash one on the floor.Its cut my alcohol consumption right down.

Adam, I thought you stated somewhere that you had given up with politics. That lasted as long as one of the woodworms retirements.

Adam, I thought you stated somewhere that you had given up with politics. That lasted as long as one of the woodworms retirements.

Im starting to think adam had a word with a local planner who wouldnt let gwyn build his extension, this is getting like tom and jerry with you pair

In answer to your original question, no, most definitely not.

The carrier bag charge isn't a 'tax' it is an enviromental charge for using a carrier bag with a view to reducing landfill issues.

There is no effect on buisness and if as you suggest is being used as a revenue stream then how is it a burden on business??

The donation is voluntary and if the trader is not making false claims as to charity donations he is doing nothing illegal in keeping the charge.

The 'left wing burden on business' argument is therefore floored as by your own admission coompanies are actually making money.

why are Mcdonalds allowed to charge 5p for a paper bag which is biodegradeable and is not condidered a threat to the enviroment???