Best Financially Run We've Ever Been?

Ever since I've supported Cardiff, we've never really been financially sound. Maverick owner, one after another, has come in and never really seen the club in a stable financial condition.

I'm not naive enough to believe the Malaysians came and took over our club because we stole their hearts. We all know they see us as a chance to make some money and use us as a chance to publicize their business interests. However, both the fans and the Malaysians have a joint objective. We all want to see the club more financially sound.

In the past 6 months especially the changes are becoming really visible at our club. The owners are listening to the fans more, the football based decisions are a lot better and the financial side of the club is being run very shrewdly indeed. Even though the Langstone debt still casts a shadow over our club, I feel that the Malaysians are running our club the best its been run in decades... not because they want to create that facade to win us over but because running a tight ship is also in their best interests if they are to get the most from this club in the long term.

I will stop short of the term parasites because they are not necessarily raping us for all we're worth. They have realized that to get the best from this club they need to maximize its potential and in doing so they are required to run the club better than any owners have before.

Do you guys agree with this or do you disagree? Before anyone barges in shouting off, I do not have much financial knowledge or understanding so I am basing my novice opinion on what I am seeing and experiencing from my perspective. I'd be interested to hear more well informed views to see what others think.

I think the Malaysian way of doing things is a breath of fresh air. Putting aside that PMG are still lurk in the background it is quite obvious that it is VT/TG who are pulling the strings.

I have no problem with Malaysian flags being displayed around the ground or with VT renaming our stadium if and when he obtains the naming rights.

There is no free lunch and there has to be a return for their investment but in return we are getting a responsably run club both on and off the pitch.

This season so far has been so enjoyable and there are many reason for that, but one I particually like is the fact we are not chucking money at a manager and players who simply see this club as a job and have no passion for it.

I agree with you zabier. i personally think they are the best thing that has happened to the club. yes vincent tan is a billionaire but i'm so glad that he's not just treating us as his toy. he's making us self sufficient and in doing so promoting cardiff city in asia so that we become bigger and they earn money.

i agree, it also seems to me that everyones a winner.
this is not a dig, but if he run the club like hamman did then one day we'd be talking about the malaysian debt rather than the langstone debt.

It seems to me that the only time he really uses his money is when he has to pay inland revenue etc. i'm also a bit naive on this subject but surely common sense dictates that as a club we're better off becoming self sufficient, luckily this hasn't affected badly as wthey have employed a top manager who has a plan and this doesn't necessarily involve spending shit loads of money like sven would do

I agree with you zabier. i personally think they are the best thing that has happened to the club. yes vincent tan is a billionaire but i'm so glad that he's not just treating us as his toy. he's making us self sufficient and in doing so promoting cardiff city in asia so that we become bigger and they earn money.

i agree, it also seems to me that everyones a winner.
this is not a dig, but if he run the club like hamman did then one day we'd be talking about the malaysian debt rather than the langstone debt.

It seems to me that the only time he really uses his money is when he has to pay inland revenue etc. i'm also a bit naive on this subject but surely common sense dictates that as a club we're better off becoming self sufficient, luckily this hasn't affected badly as wthey have employed a top manager who has a plan and this doesn't necessarily involve spending shit loads of money like sven would do

I have to agree Adam.

Football clubs have to move in this direction due to the fair play rules and we seem to be stealing a march on most other clubs.

Basically benefactors will no longer be allowed to load a club with debt (like Langston, PMG etc have in the past) but will instead either have to invest (buy shares), gift (highly unlikely) or use partnerships through sponsorship. It is option 3 which I think will eventually bring us huge rewards as VT's uses us more as a marketing tool in the Far East.

I agree with you zabier. i personally think they are the best thing that has happened to the club. yes vincent tan is a billionaire but i'm so glad that he's not just treating us as his toy. he's making us self sufficient and in doing so promoting cardiff city in asia so that we become bigger and they earn money.

i agree, it also seems to me that everyones a winner.
this is not a dig, but if he run the club like hamman did then one day we'd be talking about the malaysian debt rather than the langstone debt.

It seems to me that the only time he really uses his money is when he has to pay inland revenue etc. i'm also a bit naive on this subject but surely common sense dictates that as a club we're better off becoming self sufficient, luckily this hasn't affected badly as wthey have employed a top manager who has a plan and this doesn't necessarily involve spending shit loads of money like sven would do

I have to agree Adam.

Football clubs have to move in this direction due to the fair play rules and we seem to be stealing a march on most other clubs.

Basically benefactors will no longer be allowed to load a club with debt (like Langston, PMG etc have in the past) but will instead either have to invest (buy shares), gift (highly unlikely) or use partnerships through sponsorship. It is option 3 which I think will eventually bring us huge rewards as VT's uses us more as a marketing tool in the Far East.

Agree with your posts above Tony. (Makes a nice change eh !).

The Malaysians have in fact been running the club at a loss of appx. £6m a year for the last 2 years, but loaning the money to the club to do so, then converting those loans into shares. Hopefully IF we can get some success hey will be a le to replace this investment (or enhance it) through more Far East sponsorship. The fact that VT seems to have a lot of contacts and that they are working hard to spread the load makes this even more interesting.

As for PMG, they aren't owed a lot any more now, after converting £6m ish into shares, and this will be cleared by Aug 2013 if everything stays to plan (if I remember correctly) - they may even find that they are squeezed into converting the final £2-£3m owed to shares in May if we don't go up, as the Malays will need to purchase more shares and may not want to go beyond 49% if 'you know what' is sorted - I say 'squeezed'as I'm sure they haven't done it voluntarily .

Only problem with this 'fair play' thing is that it will give those on parachute payments an even bigger advantage.

Ever since I've supported Cardiff, we've never really been financially sound. Maverick owner, one after another, has come in and never really seen the club in a stable financial condition.

I'm not naive enough to believe the Malaysians came and took over our club because we stole their hearts. We all know they see us as a chance to make some money and use us as a chance to publicize their business interests. However, both the fans and the Malaysians have a joint objective. We all want to see the club more financially sound.

In the past 6 months especially the changes are becoming really visible at our club. The owners are listening to the fans more, the football based decisions are a lot better and the financial side of the club is being run very shrewdly indeed. Even though the Langstone debt still casts a shadow over our club, I feel that the Malaysians are running our club the best its been run in decades... not because they want to create that facade to win us over but because running a tight ship is also in their best interests if they are to get the most from this club in the long term.

I will stop short of the term parasites because they are not necessarily raping us for all we're worth. They have realized that to get the best from this club they need to maximize its potential and in doing so they are required to run the club better than any owners have before.

Do you guys agree with this or do you disagree? Before anyone barges in shouting off, I do not have much financial knowledge or understanding so I am basing my novice opinion on what I am seeing and experiencing from my perspective. I'd be interested to hear more well informed views to see what others think.

Steve,

I dont understand how you can say this, that were the best financially run ever as until say at least 2 years of accounts have been filed by the current owners, no one can include them.
On the field of play, Malky is the main difference and around where ever he is and that in my opinion makes everyone think then everything behind the scenes is brilliant financially, like I say I will only comment after 2 full years of accounts have been filed.

Ever since I've supported Cardiff, we've never really been financially sound. Maverick owner, one after another, has come in and never really seen the club in a stable financial condition.

I'm not naive enough to believe the Malaysians came and took over our club because we stole their hearts. We all know they see us as a chance to make some money and use us as a chance to publicize their business interests. However, both the fans and the Malaysians have a joint objective. We all want to see the club more financially sound.

In the past 6 months especially the changes are becoming really visible at our club. The owners are listening to the fans more, the football based decisions are a lot better and the financial side of the club is being run very shrewdly indeed. Even though the Langstone debt still casts a shadow over our club, I feel that the Malaysians are running our club the best its been run in decades... not because they want to create that facade to win us over but because running a tight ship is also in their best interests if they are to get the most from this club in the long term.

I will stop short of the term parasites because they are not necessarily raping us for all we're worth. They have realized that to get the best from this club they need to maximize its potential and in doing so they are required to run the club better than any owners have before.

Do you guys agree with this or do you disagree? Before anyone barges in shouting off, I do not have much financial knowledge or understanding so I am basing my novice opinion on what I am seeing and experiencing from my perspective. I'd be interested to hear more well informed views to see what others think.

Steve,

I dont understand how you can say this, that were the best financially run ever as until say at least 2 years of accounts have been filed by the current owners, no one can include them.
On the field of play, Malky is the main difference and around where ever he is and that in my opinion makes everyone think then everything behind the scenes is brilliant financially, like I say I will only comment after 2 full years of accounts have been filed.

people have said this in less than 2 full years under other owners

I agree with you zabier. i personally think they are the best thing that has happened to the club. yes vincent tan is a billionaire but i'm so glad that he's not just treating us as his toy. he's making us self sufficient and in doing so promoting cardiff city in asia so that we become bigger and they earn money.

i agree, it also seems to me that everyones a winner.
this is not a dig, but if he run the club like hamman did then one day we'd be talking about the malaysian debt rather than the langstone debt.

It seems to me that the only time he really uses his money is when he has to pay inland revenue etc. i'm also a bit naive on this subject but surely common sense dictates that as a club we're better off becoming self sufficient, luckily this hasn't affected badly as wthey have employed a top manager who has a plan and this doesn't necessarily involve spending shit loads of money like sven would do

I have to agree Adam.

Football clubs have to move in this direction due to the fair play rules and we seem to be stealing a march on most other clubs.

Basically benefactors will no longer be allowed to load a club with debt (like Langston, PMG etc have in the past) but will instead either have to invest (buy shares), gift (highly unlikely) or use partnerships through sponsorship. It is option 3 which I think will eventually bring us huge rewards as VT's uses us more as a marketing tool in the Far East.

Agree with your posts above Tony. (Makes a nice change eh !).

The Malaysians have in fact been running the club at a loss of appx. £6m a year for the last 2 years, but loaning the money to the club to do so, then converting those loans into shares. Hopefully IF we can get some success hey will be a le to replace this investment (or enhance it) through more Far East sponsorship. The fact that VT seems to have a lot of contacts and that they are working hard to spread the load makes this even more interesting.

As for PMG, they aren't owed a lot any more now, after converting £6m ish into shares, and this will be cleared by Aug 2013 if everything stays to plan (if I remember correctly) - they may even find that they are squeezed into converting the final £2-£3m owed to shares in May if we don't go up, as the Malays will need to purchase more shares and may not want to go beyond 49% if 'you know what' is sorted - I say 'squeezed'as I'm sure they haven't done it voluntarily .

Only problem with this 'fair play' thing is that it will give those on parachute payments an even bigger advantage.

If I remember rightly didn't PMG convert £2.3m into shares? The last I heard they were still owed around £5m but either way you are correct that they are due to be paid up one way or another by 2013.

Yes the parachute payments will impact greatly once the fair play rules kick in, although I suspect that won't bother us too much as we will be playing in the Champions League

I agree with you zabier. i personally think they are the best thing that has happened to the club. yes vincent tan is a billionaire but i'm so glad that he's not just treating us as his toy. he's making us self sufficient and in doing so promoting cardiff city in asia so that we become bigger and they earn money.

i agree, it also seems to me that everyones a winner.
this is not a dig, but if he run the club like hamman did then one day we'd be talking about the malaysian debt rather than the langstone debt.

It seems to me that the only time he really uses his money is when he has to pay inland revenue etc. i'm also a bit naive on this subject but surely common sense dictates that as a club we're better off becoming self sufficient, luckily this hasn't affected badly as wthey have employed a top manager who has a plan and this doesn't necessarily involve spending shit loads of money like sven would do

I have to agree Adam.

Football clubs have to move in this direction due to the fair play rules and we seem to be stealing a march on most other clubs.

Basically benefactors will no longer be allowed to load a club with debt (like Langston, PMG etc have in the past) but will instead either have to invest (buy shares), gift (highly unlikely) or use partnerships through sponsorship. It is option 3 which I think will eventually bring us huge rewards as VT's uses us more as a marketing tool in the Far East.

Agree with your posts above Tony. (Makes a nice change eh !).

The Malaysians have in fact been running the club at a loss of appx. £6m a year for the last 2 years, but loaning the money to the club to do so, then converting those loans into shares. Hopefully IF we can get some success hey will be a le to replace this investment (or enhance it) through more Far East sponsorship. The fact that VT seems to have a lot of contacts and that they are working hard to spread the load makes this even more interesting.

As for PMG, they aren't owed a lot any more now, after converting £6m ish into shares, and this will be cleared by Aug 2013 if everything stays to plan (if I remember correctly) - they may even find that they are squeezed into converting the final £2-£3m owed to shares in May if we don't go up, as the Malays will need to purchase more shares and may not want to go beyond 49% if 'you know what' is sorted - I say 'squeezed'as I'm sure they haven't done it voluntarily .

Only problem with this 'fair play' thing is that it will give those on parachute payments an even bigger advantage.

If I remember rightly didn't PMG convert £2.3m into shares? The last I heard they were still owed around £5m but either way you are correct that they are due to be paid up one way or another by 2013.

Yes the parachute payments will impact greatly once the fair play rules kick in, although I suspect that won't bother us too much as we will be playing in the Champions League

Share issues..

2010
£6m Malaysians (paying off £1m of their debt, the rest to cover operating losses and pay off likes of HMRC, Other clubs etc..)

New money
£100k Borley
£100k Whiteley

Debt to equity conversions
PMG £3m (£300k in May 2010, and the other £2.7m at a later date - probably the day after the play-off loss )
Isaac £1.25m
Borley £460k


2011

debt to Equity

PMG £2.85m (the balance owing to be paid by 31/5/2013) -doesnt say what the balance is, but their debt at 31/5/10 was £8.5m, so if any further repayments and interest netted out they would be left with £8.5-£2.7-£2.85 owing... just under £3m.
Isaac £500k
Borley £400k

Paying these off asaved a few bob. In 2010 £500k+ was charged by PMG in interest and fees. Also it looks like £0.9m of capital was repaid. (Debt fell from £9.8m to £8.6m - of which £300k was the debt to equity swap - I can't be 100% sure of this as i dont know the exact date of the £2.7m debt-equity swap).
(I think this cleared Isaacs and Borley's remaining loans from the wording in the EGM minutes)

VT £5.1m


Hope this helps clarify things .

like it or not it does seem the malayasians are running this club the best it has been for years and years

Ever since I've supported Cardiff, we've never really been financially sound. Maverick owner, one after another, has come in and never really seen the club in a stable financial condition.

I'm not naive enough to believe the Malaysians came and took over our club because we stole their hearts. We all know they see us as a chance to make some money and use us as a chance to publicize their business interests. However, both the fans and the Malaysians have a joint objective. We all want to see the club more financially sound.

In the past 6 months especially the changes are becoming really visible at our club. The owners are listening to the fans more, the football based decisions are a lot better and the financial side of the club is being run very shrewdly indeed. Even though the Langstone debt still casts a shadow over our club, I feel that the Malaysians are running our club the best its been run in decades... not because they want to create that facade to win us over but because running a tight ship is also in their best interests if they are to get the most from this club in the long term.

I will stop short of the term parasites because they are not necessarily raping us for all we're worth. They have realized that to get the best from this club they need to maximize its potential and in doing so they are required to run the club better than any owners have before.

Do you guys agree with this or do you disagree? Before anyone barges in shouting off, I do not have much financial knowledge or understanding so I am basing my novice opinion on what I am seeing and experiencing from my perspective. I'd be interested to hear more well informed views to see what others think.

Totally agree mate, for the first time since I have support city (1992) I have not much concern over financial situation! Yes debt is still there but the Malaysians seem to be handling it! A promotion would really sort us out financially!