Chopra, a Gamble Not Paying Off?

For me, the signing of Chopra has completely disrupted the side and has been counter-productive, something I have consistently pointed out since his signing. That someone of the ability of McCormack, who scored 20+ goals last season and was one of the hottest properties outside the Prem with a price tag of £5m, has now effectively been told that it doesn't matter how well he plays and, more crucially, how badly Chops plays, he won't play up top, if at all, unless Chops is injured, is utterly destructive to him and the team. Exacerbating this is the fact that £3m & £20k a week would have enabled not only Both & Ross to pick up where they did last season (injuries aside), but being able to strengthen midfield and defence, maybe even the crucial alternative to Bothroyd that is essential too and a back up to Ross should he get injured as indeed he has been. Given the signings Jones has made this summer it is questionable whether he would have done so, but for me it would have been a far better option than the status quo.

The consistent negative reaction to this view, reactions that are almost always contradictory in that they purport to disgaree, but actually wholeheartedly agree as I know not of anyone who thinks this squad and team is good enough, merely exemplify how reactive rather than pro-active many fans are. We can all jump on band wagons stating the bleeding obvious as it unfolds in front of our eyes, it takes a little more to be pro-active, whilst just because big money, high profile signings get the juices flowing, especially of former players so it seems with City fans, does not mean such a signing is necessarily for the betterment of the team. I am not one for being controversial for controversies sake, spouting sensationalistic nonsense a la the clown that is Leighton James or Media Wales, but I find it hard not to accept that the Chopra signing was and is anything but an expensive gamble, one that is simply not paying off. People can point to his 12 goals all they like, how many games has he influenced in the last dozen or so games? One, Derby, where he got 4 goals. The rest? Nothing.

Much like us as a team, I have little doubt that a purple patch awaits him and us that will give us false hope yet again, but just as sure as we will hit such a patch soon, no doubt the turgid, passionless, spineless performances we have become accustomed to this season will soon follow, almost certainly at the business end of the seaon yet again. It's just a little ironic given Chopra's personal issues that it is us paying the price of the gamble rather than he is.

No , not at all - He has hit the wood work FIVE times this season aswell has scoring 11 goals.

Chopra was sick today, didnt make sense that he started, with McCormack on the bench, but he's STILL top scorer in this division and worth every penny.

Dont think Chops has had the service lately. Also you have to take into account the guy does run his socks off.

Sorry, guys, but the reposte of "he doesn't get the service" merely agrees with the point I'm making. What's the point in having an out and out striker if he hasn't got the base from which to prosper? Besides, Ross got 20+ last season, we have merely "improved" a position that needed no improvement! Are you honestly saying you would rather have Chopra up front ahead of Ross, rather than Ross up top and 3 or 4 extra players too?

Sorry, guys, but the reposte of "he doesn't get the service" merely agrees with the point I'm making. What's the point in having an out and out striker if he hasn't got the base from which to prosper? Besides, Ross got 20+ last season, we have merely "improved" a position that needed no improvement! Are you honestly saying you would rather have Chopra up front ahead of Ross, rather than Ross up top and 3 or 4 extra players too?

Chopra had more goals from open play by the end of september than MCormack had all season. In fact, take Ross's penalties away and he didnt score a lot more than Bothroyd (if any).

I can see what you are saying that we needed strenghtening all round rather than 1 big signing, but Chopra was a bargain, (the fee was staged and could well turn out to be much less than £3m if we dont go up) the others didnt come in not because we signed Chops but because we failed to sell McCormack or Ledley, which was clearly the plan.

Perhaps predictably, I feel that this is...

.. wait for it...

.. mostly Dave Jones' fault.

I think this for the following reasons:

1) Ross' treatment is - as you point out - really not wise, nor fair. However this is DJ's fault IMO. When/if Chopra is having an "off" game, DJ should sub him off. If Chopra doesn't play well for a few matches, Ross should start. Chopra is VERY competitive, and leaving him on the bench a few times could do him good.

2) Chopra is a striker, whereas Ross can sometimes drop back and be almost a winger. Hence Ross will create more chances than Chopra when our midfield is lacking. Unfortunately, as we all know, our midfield (in the center) has been lacking recently. Again I feel that this is DJ's fault. As Chopra has shown quite often, if he gets the service, he'll do very well.

I don't want to "go along with the crowd" and blame Dave Jones for everything, however I do feel that the perceived favourtism that DJ sometimes exhibits - and the central midfield issue - is the problem here. And as we know, both are problems that are in the manager's jurisdiction.

Sorry, guys, but the reposte of "he doesn't get the service" merely agrees with the point I'm making. What's the point in having an out and out striker if he hasn't got the base from which to prosper? Besides, Ross got 20+ last season, we have merely "improved" a position that needed no improvement! Are you honestly saying you would rather have Chopra up front ahead of Ross, rather than Ross up top and 3 or 4 extra players too?

Not really. Having a brilliant goal-scorer at this level is a great asset. But it's an asset that must be used properly. Dave Jones should use tactics that ensure that Chopra gets the service.

Else we may as well play a 4-5-1 or 4-6-0, if we're saying that strikers are midfielders as well as goal scorers.

Last edited by BluebirdsFan101 on Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dave jones will not play mccormack unless he has to, he can not admit to a mistake, before buying chopra why didnt he strengthen the midfield

Lawnmower, I never understand the point when people say take away his pens, free kicks etc. Take away Shearer's and his record would be far more ordinary. Do set piece goals not count?! I could say with perhaps a little more substance, take away 3 of Chopra's 4 goals against Derby because the game was won! All goals count, to pretend otherwise is churlish.

101, agree with the points you make, though as for highlighting the need for a goalscorer, we already had/have one.

Lawnmower, I never understand the point when people say take away his pens, free kicks etc. Take away Shearer's and his record would be far more ordinary. Do set piece goals not count?! I could say with perhaps a little more substance, take away 3 of Chopra's 4 goals against Derby because the game was won! All goals count, to pretend otherwise is churlish.

101, agree with the points you make, though as for highlighting the need for a goalscorer, we already had/have one.

It's churlish to pretend penalties can be weighted equally with open play goals - you don't get a freakishly high number of penalties every season. Without those penalties, Ross scored about the same as Bothroyd last season - the highest number Jay had scored in a season.

The fact is, Ross and Chops are different styles of striker. Ross tends to prefer to drop deeper, running at defenders. Chops plays off the shoulder of the last defender. Two very different styles, Chops requires service. That service has been missing for the bulk of the season. McPhail, imo, is essential because he can pick out Chops runs.

i think chopra misses the service of mcphail
his through balls are what chopra has been feeding off mostly this season
but then its down to the manager to adjust the system to suit his star striker but as he is still working on the coming back from one nil down scenario i wont hold my breath

Chopra need the ball threading through to him to be effective, instead of hoofing it up to him when we lose the plot. Top striker and glad he's with us.

No service thats been the problem starved!!

Lawnmower, I never understand the point when people say take away his pens, free kicks etc. Take away Shearer's and his record would be far more ordinary. Do set piece goals not count?! I could say with perhaps a little more substance, take away 3 of Chopra's 4 goals against Derby because the game was won! All goals count, to pretend otherwise is churlish.

101, agree with the points you make, though as for highlighting the need for a goalscorer, we already had/have one.

I didnt say 'take away his free kicks', just take away the pens. If you want to compare the 2 in front of goal, you need to compare like with like, and in terms of scoring goals Chopra wins hands down. Thats not a difficult point to understand surely.

McCormack wouldnt even get the chance to take the pens now after missing 3 (Watford, Ipswich and Preston) last season Whittingham has shown that he has a better technique. So no point in starting him in front of Chopra on the basis that he's a good penalty taker either.

As for Shearer, 54 penalties out of 422 goals. hardly reliant on them was he !

McCormack scored 21 goals, around half of which were penalties. No comparison.

We need competition for places and this is one where we are lucky to have 2 top players, Ross SHOULD get more game time, he's brought on too late and could give us options out wide too, AND it is certainly a luxury having the 2 when we are threadbare elsewhere, with say a £1m striker as cover for Chopra rather than a £3-£5m as cover, but thats more to do with the fact that Jones and Ridsdale expected him/Ledely to leave in the summer and were left short of funds when it didnt happen.

It was no doubt a gamble, but in Chopra's case it looks a success.

Him, Whittinham and Burke have been the most important players on the pitch this season so far, I have not doubted Chops for a second.

I hope he`s a gamble that will pay off, cos I`ve got £50 on him being top goalscorer in the championship, and that includes pens , free kicks , tap ins, and 40 yarders ! The Man`s class !

I'm afraid your stats are wrong Lawn mower. Shearer has scored 58 PL penalties alone with 202 from open play, so of 260 League goals, 58 were pens. Overall PL record;

441 PL games - 260 goals - 1.7 games per goal

Minus pens;

441 PL games - 202 goals - 2.18 games per goal

Still an excellent record, but nowhere near as impressive without pens is it?

I'm not a big fan of Whittingham, but you won't hear me discounting his pens to try and prove a point. They all count, to argue otherwise is folly.

I'm afraid your stats are wrong Lawn mower. Shearer has scored 58 PL penalties alone with 202 from open play, so of 260 League goals, 58 were pens. Overall PL record;

441 PL games - 260 goals - 1.7 games per goal

Minus pens;

441 PL games - 202 goals - 2.18 games per goal

Still an excellent record, but nowhere near as impressive without pens is it?

I'm not a big fan of Whittingham, but you won't hear me discounting his pens to try and prove a point. They all count, to argue otherwise is folly.

You've got different figures as you are only counting PL games.

Shearer scored 422 goals in his career. dont forget he also scored for England, and in Cups

This is where the info came from http://www.talkfootball.co.uk/guides/fo ... earer.html


As I said, to compare the change in his record with/.without penalties with McCormacks (50% of his goals from pens) is just silly.

Fact is, to compare like with like Chopra/mcCormack and their goalscoring feats then you DO need to discount their penalties, and then you can see how much better Chopra's strike rate is. Its really not 'trying to prove a point', its just the way it is.
Otherwise why not try to get Graham Alexander in and play him up front.

Try looking at it another way, do you REALLY think McCormack would have got 11 Championship goals now had chopra not been here.

Also what on earth would we have done for the weeks when McCormack was out injured. Played Feeney or Magennis ?

Still think the Chopra deal was a good one?

YES, gamble would pay off, but he cannot perform if he is not played, DJ should revert to 4 4 2 with Chops and Bothroyd up front and Bellamy on the left with Burke on the right, as for the rest of the formation, I'll leave that for you

Sorry, But I totally Disagree, Chopra is worth every penny and is worth his wait in Gold. The Gamble that is Not paying off is Dave Jones on his Nearly £800,000 a year Wage and His Tantrums, Chops speaks out to DJ regarding playing him out of Position v Jacks and getting his tactics wrong and what Does DJ do, He Drops Him, Who Suffers the team.

Lol, worth his weight in gold eh Annis?! Jesus, he's worth more than bleeding Messi on that criteria! Don't disagree about Jones not being up to it Annis, was always a fan of his until the last season at Ninian in truth, but I think it was "My Opinions" excellent piece that alluded to Jones now being a victim of his own relative success which I would agree with, he did do an excellent job early on, but is struggling to take it to the next level with the lavish funding he has had in recent years with his fallibilities being all too evident in this time. Regarding Chopra however, the point is he isn't performing, didn't perform for large parts of last season and even the season before in truth and now finds himself out of the team and ridiculed/ lambasted for being an overweight pisshead having tantrums in the dressing room. I fail to see how that is anything other than a catastrophic failure (yes, on Jones part as he signed him) and massive waste of valuable funds. I get the feeling people like yourself who rate Chopra highly do so off the back of his first spell here as apart from a golden period at the start of last year, he has been completely anonymous.

Lol, worth his weight in gold eh Annis?! Jesus, he's worth more than bleeding Messi on that criteria! Don't disagree about Jones not being up to it Annis, was always a fan of his until the last season at Ninian in truth, but I think it was "My Opinions" excellent piece that alluded to Jones now being a victim of his own relative success which I would agree with, he did do an excellent job early on, but is struggling to take it to the next level with the lavish funding he has had in recent years with his fallibilities being all too evident in this time. Regarding Chopra however, the point is he isn't performing, didn't perform for large parts of last season and even the season before in truth and now finds himself out of the team and ridiculed/ lambasted for being an overweight pisshead having tantrums in the dressing room. I fail to see how that is anything other than a catastrophic failure (yes, on Jones part as he signed him) and massive waste of valuable funds. I get the feeling people like yourself who rate Chopra highly do so off the back of his first spell here as apart from a golden period at the start of last year, he has been completely anonymous.

On the Chops bit you might have a point, regarding rem his last spell, But I still believe he can do it and Surely DJ should be the one as his manager to help him get back to his form, instead I see DJ Not helping him at all.
Your right, DJ has done well to Stabilise us, but He cant take us to the next level in My Opinion.