Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:00 am
Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:17 am
NJ73 wrote:I've read on here for a while now the criticism (some would call it sniping) of your supporters trust.
Is it possible someone could explain why on earth there is such an attitude to a Supporters Trust? For the life of me I cannot understand why you lot cannot unite behind such a cause which would benefit your club in the long run.
It seems from a distance that there are far too many ego's and far too many agenda's from different factions. In fact it almost seems that some seem to enjoy the infighting rather than the football.
But then I'm a Jack so my views won't count for anything (other than the fact that we have a very successful supporters trust that has been very influential in bringing the club and fans together and getting us into the Premier League
Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:56 am
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:02 am
NJ73 wrote:I've read on here for a while now the criticism (some would call it sniping) of your supporters trust.
It is sniping. That's indisputable.
For the life of me I cannot understand why you lot cannot unite behind such a cause which would benefit your club in the long run.
Nor me.
It seems from a distance that there are far too many ego's and far too many agenda's from different factions. In fact it almost seems that some seem to enjoy the infighting rather than the football.
The first statement is undeniable and the second is highly likely, as you say, it certainly appears so and if it wasn't the case then the sniping quite simply wouldn't happen.
But then I'm a Jack so my views won't count for anything (other than the fact that we have a very successful supporters trust that has been very influential in bringing the club and fans together and getting us into the Premier League
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:04 am
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:07 am
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:31 am
Sludge wrote:jealousy and exclusion
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:35 am
Sludge wrote:jealousy and exclusion
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:44 am
nerd wrote:Sludge wrote:jealousy and exclusion
Sludge, you know as well as I do the real time the Trust was needed was in the bad old days pre-Sam. Then it could have potentially realised the aim of fan representation on the board - something which will never happen now. Although maybe that's a good thing; after all, any Trust member on the board may see confidential information, and we know how that works out...
The fact is nobody has ever really answered my question of what makes a Trust so vitally important to us given there's zero chance, as I said, of board representation. I mean, would things like the Fred Keenors statue stuff only happen through a Trust or would it be done just as well through a well run Supporters Club?
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:47 am
Lawnmower wrote:nerd wrote:Sludge wrote:jealousy and exclusion
Sludge, you know as well as I do the real time the Trust was needed was in the bad old days pre-Sam. Then it could have potentially realised the aim of fan representation on the board - something which will never happen now. Although maybe that's a good thing; after all, any Trust member on the board may see confidential information, and we know how that works out...
The fact is nobody has ever really answered my question of what makes a Trust so vitally important to us given there's zero chance, as I said, of board representation. I mean, would things like the Fred Keenors statue stuff only happen through a Trust or would it be done just as well through a well run Supporters Club?
Totally agree about the need to have a Trust before Sam, and yes maybe the club is too big to have a proper influence now, but there is still a role for a strong Trust.
As for the comment about the Keenor statue, well we had a Supporters Club for what 40 years and nothing happened then, so yes that is a role for the Trust, and by no means the only one. Events like last night are great.
Thekey though for me has always been to have an organisation ready to get involved if and when the sh1t hits the fan as has happened in so many other places. As you rightly say, we didnt have one when we needed it, but who knows whats ahead. The Malaysians might run the club down to the lower leagues and then put it into admin when they've got what they can back. Could be nobody interested, or a consortium which need the fans help, which can be done through the Trust.
The biggest pity is that there are plenty of intelligent people with obviously lots of time on their hands (by the amount of posts on the subject) who want to stand on the side and criticise rather than get involved in trying to take it forward. Guys who I've really respected for what they've achieved in the past, and are really much better than the cheap shots that are coming out, 1 or 2 of whom wold have been voted onto the board without question had they stood.
I don't know why its become like this, my suspicion is its become more about bitterness that someone else might have meetings with the directors, which is suprising because having had a couple its not all its cracked up to be. The 2 I've had were with guys (neither still at the club) who told lies which they hoped would be spread amongst the rest of the fans.
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:48 am
nerd wrote:Sludge wrote:jealousy and exclusion
Sludge, you know as well as I do the real time the Trust was needed was in the bad old days pre-Sam. Then it could have potentially realised the aim of fan representation on the board - something which will never happen now. Although maybe that's a good thing; after all, any Trust member on the board may see confidential information, and we know how that works out...
The fact is nobody has ever really answered my question of what makes a Trust so vitally important to us given there's zero chance, as I said, of board representation. I mean, would things like the Fred Keenors statue stuff only happen through a Trust or would it be done just as well through a well run Supporters Club?
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:49 am
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:49 am
IsThatUJohnWayne wrote:Sludge wrote:jealousy and exclusion
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:51 am
Lawnmower wrote:As for the comment about the Keenor statue, well we had a Supporters Club for what 40 years and nothing happened then, so yes that is a role for the Trust, and by no means the only one. Events like last night are great.
Thekey though for me has always been to have an organisation ready to get involved if and when the sh1t hits the fan as has happened in so many other places. As you rightly say, we didnt have one when we needed it, but who knows whats ahead. The Malaysians might run the club down to the lower leagues and then put it into admin when they've got what they can back. Could be nobody interested, or a consortium which need the fans help, which can be done through the Trust.
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:51 am
birchblue wrote:The trust have people who think they are better than anyone else mention no names pathetic....
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:53 am
nerd wrote:Lawnmower wrote:As for the comment about the Keenor statue, well we had a Supporters Club for what 40 years and nothing happened then, so yes that is a role for the Trust, and by no means the only one. Events like last night are great.
That's my point - organising meetings, events, as you acknowledge, a well run Supporters Club can do that.Thekey though for me has always been to have an organisation ready to get involved if and when the sh1t hits the fan as has happened in so many other places. As you rightly say, we didnt have one when we needed it, but who knows whats ahead. The Malaysians might run the club down to the lower leagues and then put it into admin when they've got what they can back. Could be nobody interested, or a consortium which need the fans help, which can be done through the Trust.
Agree on that point. When/if the brown stuff hits the fan again, sure, I agree with you fully.
The point is that right now, the trust is toothless. There's clearly no mandate from the fanbase, given the very low percentage of members to people on the clubs database, for one thing. Golden Ticket scam - trust could not do a single thing there.
Hence you've got to consider the overall situation. Fans see the Trust gets involved with things like the Keenor statue, which in the cosmic scheme of things is hardly the most pressing. People see there's a lack of real measured influence, then they generally won't bother with the Trust. hence, it's certainly useful, but certainly doesn't represent the fanbase nor should have it's relevance overstated.
Trust could suggest to the Malaysians dropping ticket prices. Malaysians then say no. Nothing changes, would be the same as if I dropped them an email.
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:54 am
Sludge wrote:birchblue wrote:The trust have people who think they are better than anyone else mention no names pathetic....
laughable nonsense again
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:54 am
Sludge wrote:birchblue wrote:The trust have people who think they are better than anyone else mention no names pathetic....
laughable nonsense again
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:54 am
nerd wrote:Lawnmower wrote:As for the comment about the Keenor statue, well we had a Supporters Club for what 40 years and nothing happened then, so yes that is a role for the Trust, and by no means the only one. Events like last night are great.
That's my point - organising meetings, events, as you acknowledge, a well run Supporters Club can do that.Thekey though for me has always been to have an organisation ready to get involved if and when the sh1t hits the fan as has happened in so many other places. As you rightly say, we didnt have one when we needed it, but who knows whats ahead. The Malaysians might run the club down to the lower leagues and then put it into admin when they've got what they can back. Could be nobody interested, or a consortium which need the fans help, which can be done through the Trust.
Agree on that point. When/if the brown stuff hits the fan again, sure, I agree with you fully.
The point is that right now, the trust is toothless. There's clearly no mandate from the fanbase, given the very low percentage of members to people on the clubs database, for one thing. Golden Ticket scam - trust could not do a single thing there.
Hence you've got to consider the overall situation. Fans see the Trust gets involved with things like the Keenor statue, which in the cosmic scheme of things is hardly the most pressing. People see there's a lack of real measured influence, then they generally won't bother with the Trust. hence, it's certainly useful, but certainly doesn't represent the fanbase nor should have it's relevance overstated.
Trust could suggest to the Malaysians dropping ticket prices. Malaysians then say no. Nothing changes, would be the same as if I dropped them an email.
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:55 am
nerd wrote:Sludge wrote:birchblue wrote:The trust have people who think they are better than anyone else mention no names pathetic....
laughable nonsense again
Sludge, all walks of life, organisations have people who think they are better than anyone else. Laughable to think the trust would be immune to that.
Even more laughable if you're somehow claiming every single Trust member was selfless with no ego...
Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:00 pm
nerd wrote:Lawnmower wrote:As for the comment about the Keenor statue, well we had a Supporters Club for what 40 years and nothing happened then, so yes that is a role for the Trust, and by no means the only one. Events like last night are great.
That's my point - organising meetings, events, as you acknowledge, a well run Supporters Club can do that.Thekey though for me has always been to have an organisation ready to get involved if and when the sh1t hits the fan as has happened in so many other places. As you rightly say, we didnt have one when we needed it, but who knows whats ahead. The Malaysians might run the club down to the lower leagues and then put it into admin when they've got what they can back. Could be nobody interested, or a consortium which need the fans help, which can be done through the Trust.
Agree on that point. When/if the brown stuff hits the fan again, sure, I agree with you fully.
The point is that right now, the trust is toothless. There's clearly no mandate from the fanbase, given the very low percentage of members to people on the clubs database, for one thing. Golden Ticket scam - trust could not do a single thing there.
Hence you've got to consider the overall situation. Fans see the Trust gets involved with things like the Keenor statue, which in the cosmic scheme of things is hardly the most pressing. People see there's a lack of real measured influence, then they generally won't bother with the Trust. hence, it's certainly useful, but certainly doesn't represent the fanbase nor should have it's relevance overstated.
Trust could suggest to the Malaysians dropping ticket prices. Malaysians then say no. Nothing changes, would be the same as if I dropped them an email.
Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:18 pm
Sludge wrote:nerd on his own probably wouldnt have a meeting with TG to discuss the matter though , whereas the trust can and represents the fans
just a theory
Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:21 pm
Sludge wrote:laughbale that we have fellow cardiff fans jealous of an organisation they could easily join and change if they wished
Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:02 pm
Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:03 pm
nerd wrote:Sludge wrote:laughbale that we have fellow cardiff fans jealous of an organisation they could easily join and change if they wished
Laughable making the assumption people are "jealous".
THEY ARE JEALOUS THOUGH AND THEY KNOW IT
Laughable to claim it's easy to "change".
IT IS , VERY SIMPLE
Anyone joining, standing on a platform of reforming elements of the trust would stand about as much chance of being elected as you being found not guilty of stealing Gloria Hunniford's granny pants.