" Does Size Really Matter ? "

Well according to Peter Ridsdale is does when it comes to football budgets, in fact he once went on record as saying tell me a clubs budget and I will tell you where they will finish in the League. Like all things with PR he did clarify the statement by saying of course there will be a few exceptions to the rule.

Well in the last 2 seasons there have been 3 exceptions to the rule with Swansea, Norwich and Blackpool all having budgets on or below £9m per season and all have achieved promotion to the PL. Last season VT & TG were fantastic in their support of our manager in the attempt to win promotion when despite all ST monies being spent they supported the manager with the highest playing budget in the clubs history, but we failed and as a result the club has another chunk of debt.

In the next week our new manager will be appointed, the next season fixtures will be released and we will start signing players which will result in excitement levels increasing and all of us counting down the days to the new season.

But should the excitement be tempered with just a little concern, concern that we are about to run up another huge chunk of debt because lets face it the revenue for the club next season will be approx £18m based on recent seasons. With the news that VT & TG are giving the manager a budget of £20m with other running costs we could be looking at a loss in excess of £5m - is that a reason for excitement or concern.

I can understand with the number of clubs have PL parachute payments next season Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Hull, West Ham, Birmingham and Blackpool as big as our £20m budget sounds it is likely to be smaller than most of those clubs. Blackpool being the exception who had a real go at the PL with a budget of less than £18m and nearly made it pay off.

All of the other clubs need the PL parachute payments because they are saddled with debts from their PL experience and in the case of Hull because they were already saddled with debts from reaching the PL, a little like ourselves but we don't have the PL revenues.

We have had a rollercoaster ride over the last 10 years with a succession of owners running up debts only to be criticised by others because of spending levels. SH is currently the poster boy for irresponsible spending following the announcement by our current owners of the engagement of Forensic Accountants to investigate expenditure during his reign, personally I would love to see the same excercise carried out on the Ridsdale years because the club run up sizeable debts on the back of huge revenues from player sales. The question for me is how will we look back on the current ownership if in the future we fail to reach the PL and they look to recover the monies loaned to the business.

In VT & TG we almost certainly have the richest owners of the club and no doubt the deepest pockets to cope with all of this, but on the back of dealing with historical debts, the new debts from last season and whatever happens the new debts from the current season where will it end.

OK it definately makes for exciting times for us the fans but what is of greater concern the size of this seasons budget or the increasing size of the debt the club is carrying.

You see in my opinion size does matter even more so when we are dealingwith debt and we shouldn't forget that .

thw teams with the really big budgets almost always go up,qpr west ham birmingham wolves west brom sunderland newcastle all had budgets the rest of the championship can only dream of and have gone up comfortably, (west brom 3 times!)
i think ridsdale has got a fair point and both west ham and birmingham will be close to the top of the table right from the start, the teams you mention all went up through the playoffs which may be our best chance of promotion this season, i suppose thats why last season was so disappointing there was only qpr with a big budget and we still managed to f**k it up

thw teams with the really big budgets almost always go up,qpr west ham birmingham wolves west brom sunderland newcastle all had budgets the rest of the championship can only dream of and have gone up comfortably, (west brom 3 times!)
i think ridsdale has got a fair point and both west ham and birmingham will be close to the top of the table right from the start, the teams you mention all went up through the playoffs which may be our best chance of promotion this season, i suppose thats why last season was so disappointing there was only qpr with a big budget and we still managed to f**k it up

And we are still to see the true cost of last seasons failure that will appear in the clubs accounts when published towards the end of this year.

Yesterday FL clubs agreed at the Football League AGM in Cyprus to adopt the UEFA Financial Fair Play system in one form or another. League 2 clubs started last year by capping the player wage bill at 60% of revenue and this will now reduce to 55% of revenue, League 1 clubs are now required to apply the 60% wage cap.

Championship clubs have agreed to implement the UEFA Financial Fair Play system for season 2012-13 however they are now going to work on a format which will be workable in the division. UEFA FFP basically requires clubs to balance their books each season or to "break even".

Whilst we all get excited about new managers, new players, new season and thedream of one day our club playing in the PL, as a club we now must give consideration to these UEFA FFP regulations as if we all hope we sign players rather than go down the loan route this season.

To be able to service our current debts, pay our players and pay all other costs in running the business our club should be setting a player budget of £10m and no more, to even consider a budget of £20m is in my opinion crazy unless the balance is given by our owners in the form of a gift or further investment in shares.

Next season TV revenues for FL clubs will drop by 25% all clubs including ourselves need to recognise that fact and start dealing with it now.

This thread has had a high number of hits but few comments I suppose talking about cost cutting is umpopular but we all know owners unlike fans are not around that long. As fans we should be worried about the longterm stability of the club.

thw teams with the really big budgets almost always go up,qpr west ham birmingham wolves west brom sunderland newcastle all had budgets the rest of the championship can only dream of and have gone up comfortably, (west brom 3 times!)
i think ridsdale has got a fair point and both west ham and birmingham will be close to the top of the table right from the start, the teams you mention all went up through the playoffs which may be our best chance of promotion this season, i suppose thats why last season was so disappointing there was only qpr with a big budget and we still managed to f**k it up

And we are still to see the true cost of last seasons failure that will appear in the clubs accounts when published towards the end of this year.

Yesterday FL clubs agreed at the Football League AGM in Cyprus to adopt the UEFA Financial Fair Play system in one form or another. League 2 clubs started last year by capping the player wage bill at 60% of revenue and this will now reduce to 55% of revenue, League 1 clubs are now required to apply the 60% wage cap.

Championship clubs have agreed to implement the UEFA Financial Fair Play system for season 2012-13 however they are now going to work on a format which will be workable in the division. UEFA FFP basically requires clubs to balance their books each season or to "break even".

Whilst we all get excited about new managers, new players, new season and thedream of one day our club playing in the PL, as a club we now must give consideration to these UEFA FFP regulations as if we all hope we sign players rather than go down the loan route this season.

To be able to service our current debts, pay our players and pay all other costs in running the business our club should be setting a player budget of £10m and no more, to even consider a budget of £20m is in my opinion crazy unless the balance is given by our owners in the form of a gift or further investment in shares.

Next season TV revenues for FL clubs will drop by 25% all clubs including ourselves need to recognise that fact and start dealing with it now.

This thread has had a high number of hits but few comments I suppose talking about cost cutting is umpopular but we all know owners unlike fans are not around that long. As fans we should be worried about the longterm stability of the club.

Very well put mate. Excellent post and reply

great post

As usual Gary excellent post, If we are not careful our debts could once again get out of control and personally I don't think they are being managed properly, its ok having a Budget of £16 -£20 Mill Sounds brilliant to the Fans, BUT who has been Managing it at Our Club ?

As usual Gary excellent post, If we are not careful our debts could once again get out of control and personally I don't think they are being managed properly, its ok having a Budget of £16 -£20 Mill Sounds brilliant to the Fans, BUT who has been Managing it at Our Club ?

Well Annis after the decision of the Football League AGM someone has to manage it be it our CEO or Financial Director and they have to start now.

As usual Gary excellent post, If we are not careful our debts could once again get out of control and personally I don't think they are being managed properly, its ok having a Budget of £16 -£20 Mill Sounds brilliant to the Fans, BUT who has been Managing it at Our Club ?

Well Annis after the decision of the Football League AGM someone has to manage it be it our CEO or Financial Director and they have to start now.

Gary, Personally and I will say this on record, I don't believe the Malaysians have the right people in place at the Stadium, to inexperienced and behind the scenes we are not going forward. Just my strong opinion. The Malaysians need to be over here more to monitor their money they are putting in. To late at the end of a Season.

How do we owe Sunderland still £1.5M from the Chopra transfer,when we bought him back less than what we sold him for

The money at the time may have gone on other things,but this for me is the 1st sign that things are not right.

We have to get a root and branch system in place,but then again i thought we did that when put in place our CEO - GJ

Size and budget do obviously matter. Installing the right man to use the budget carefully matter equally. The appointment of the new manager is massively important. Get the right guy who can spend the money wisely and can handle the pressure we should be fighting for promotion again. Pick the wrong guy who wastes it on overpaid loanees, past it premier players and injury prone journey men and we going to be midtable and calling for another new manager.

For me the new manager needs to be someone who has handled a budget like that before, ie Hughton or Di Matteo.

How do we owe Sunderland still £1.5M from the Chopra transfer,when we bought him back less than what we sold him for

The money at the time may have gone on other things,but this for me is the 1st sign that things are not right.

We have to get a root and branch system in place,but then again i thought we did that when put in place our CEO - GJ

Tony, this just shows how our Club has been running it business side in the last few yrs .

Size and budget do obviously matter. Installing the right man to use the budget carefully matter equally. The appointment of the new manager is massively important. Get the right guy who can spend the money wisely and can handle the pressure we should be fighting for promotion again. Pick the wrong guy who wastes it on overpaid loanees, past it premier players and injury prone journey men and we going to be midtable and calling for another new manager.

For me the new manager needs to be someone who has handled a budget like that before, ie Hughton or Di Matteo.

I agree Don,We need a good manager, but we also need an experienced person to handle our Budget. The Malaysians need to sort both out

I think the club needs to put a cap in place on player wages say a maximum of £10k per week that may inpact on the possibility of CB signing for the club because we all know he is worth more. Maybe in that circumstance VT will need to pay the difference between the £10k limit and whatever we agree with CB.

A £10m budget would give the club a squad of 25 players earning an average just above £7.5k per week plenty of clubs in the Championship are not only surviving on that cost but also getting promoted on less - Swansea, Norwich and Blackpool being the recent examples.

I think if we have any player at the club currently earning more than £10k per week they need to be shipped out, I understand Danny Graham was on £5k per week at Watford less than 25% of what Chopra gets with us. The players are out there young and hungry players and it's that type of player we need to be chasing and unlike DJ was always telling us I think we could attract them to our club.

For me the same situation exists with the manager PR may have gifted DJ a rediculous salary at £800k but the new manager should be on no more than £300k, again I understand BR at Swansea was on less than £280k ask yourself who did the better job.

The more I think about the manager the more I come around to Malky Mackay a young hungry passionate manager who wouldn't cost the earth.

Is the season ticket scam under PR having a financial effect on City??? Or are we always a season behind in gate receipts? I genuinely don't know, but I'm pretty sure my Wife/Misses and Girlfriend who are also my accountant's could do a much better job than the one's City are using, Even They ask how on earth do you lose 20M? Which also means We'v lost 27-30M As gate receipts of 23 Home Games x 23,000 Attendances- Basis of £20 Is a lot of revenue that never seem's to count at Our Club, I mean 20M in six years to 20M a season dont work for me, But thats Me and My Girls!!!!!!!!!!!

It Does Matter But ....

If the team is not jelling e.g - Man City You Win F**k All they were just lucky enough to win the F.A CUP

You Can Have All The Money In The World But The Players Must Be Able To Play Together

:ayatollah:

It Does Matter But ....

If the team is not jelling e.g - Man City You Win F**k All they were just lucky enough to win the F.A CUP

You Can Have All The Money In The World But The Players Must Be Able To Play Together

they have only had money 2-3 seasons really and top 4 finish in the prem aint bad tbh. they will start to win stuff soon. its a matter of time