A project or a quick fix?

That's the choice for the new manager I think.

Evatt, for example, represents someone who has a decent amount of experience of the league and would be brought in solely to get us promoted. No thought about the future, just get the job done.

Then there's Barry-Murphy and Buckingham. They don't have the same amount of experience as Evatt but they do have a good record of working with young players and improving them.

They represent a long term project. They'd be expected to get us into the top six but also to bring in a style that will be a blueprint for the club going forward. That would require patience.

Of course it could be none of these names - but the option between project and quick fix will still be there.



I am more minded to prefer a project. I don't mind us being in this league for a couple of seasons, but no more than that.

I don't think a quick fix is the right thing. Yes it could get us back to the Championship instantly but what then? Because it's a quick fix, it could lead to us coming straight back down.

The thing with a project is that we can install a style that will get us promoted in either year one or year two. But crucially it could lay the groundwork to take us forward in the long term.

It also gives us the best possible chance to get out of this situation where we have a different manager every six months. There are no guarantees, but it gives us the best chance.

People may say a project won't work with Tan around but I think it can with the right young manager - Barry-Murphy and Buckingham fit that description.

We've gone down the quick fix before and because it's such a short term strategy, it always goes wrong at some point.

I doubt Tan would do this, but whoever gets appointed needs at least a two year contract. We can't be in the same position that we were after Bulut's first season, that dithering was the start of our problems this season.



So all this is why I would be satisfied with either Barry-Murphy or Buckingham. I was doubtful about Barry-Murphy at first but having done more research, I'm more positive about him.

You name some very valid and good points Ned, however I think the big sticking point is Tan. IF we went with a project and Tan felt we weren't near to getting back up first attempt he would pull the trigger. I just don't seeing happening with Tan. I hope I am proved wrong but, he knows nothing about football or what a project would mean

For me it has to be:

a) A quick fix - in Division 1

b) A project - when we are back in the Championship.


This year, one goal, and one goal only, immediate return to the Championship and, on this basis, I would put any manager on a 1 year deal with a substantial achievement bonus.

Along with a 12 month extension to then start a Championship project.

For me it has to be:

a) A quick fix - in Division 1

b) A project - when we are back in the Championship.


This year, one goal, and one goal only, immediate return to the Championship and, on this basis, I would put any manager on a 1 year deal with a substantial achievement bonus.

Along with a 12 month extension to then start a Championship project.

I disagree. I think that if it's a project, it has to start now.

Bringing in a quick fix for promotion and then trying to start a project from the bottom of the Championship is a lot more difficult.

I get why some want instant promotion but I believe a long term project starting now is better going forward. I would want us to be around the top six this season, hopefully going up - but certainly achieving promotion by year two.

It would stand us in much better stead in the long term. We need to use this relegation as an opportunity to do that.

Great question.

I don't mind us being in L1 if we're showing forward-thinking and building success based on strategy. However, I'd scrap that to get instant promotion and then think of the project.

I'd be really pissed off if we signed another cluster of ElGhazi, Willock, Chambers etc. 'Names' who individually sound good and we're good 'on paper'. I'd much prefer a number of players to solve problems the squad has both in performance but also character and leadership.

In short: Quick fix.

Do we do projects at this club?

If there is one thing i don't want, is another Pep tribute act. The game is moving on; the smaller teams he plays against, lacking the same resources, have figured out how to stop him, even with the financial sledgehammer he possesses. So BBM City elite development squad manager means nothing to me. Then you have been one of the first team coaches at relegated Leicester Awesome.

Not sure why 43-year-old Evatt is only considered short term, against 40-year-old Des Buckingham or 43-year-old BBM?

For me it's between relatively inexperienced Evatt and Buckingham rather than no experience BBM & Rambo ( I assume he is still in the picture). All could be described as long-term projects, but we know they can do it rather than hope they can.

I know as fans, butter wouldn't melt in our mouths, but between the absent owner, the useless media and us, inexperience doesn't last long here.

Nothing to do with Tan,
DJ - 315 games close but no cigar
Lennie 174 Promotion to the championship

Tan era
Warnock 144 Promotion to Premier League
Malky 125 promotion to Premier League

Slade 86 tidying up the Ole mess
Harris 62 playoffs
Bulut 58
Morison 45
Riza 40
Mad mick 38
Ole 30


I think you are so loyal that you overestimate how many would return to a second season in L1 (assuming Tan is still here)

Do we do projects at this club?

If there is one thing i don't want, is another Pep tribute act. The game is moving on; the smaller teams he plays against, lacking the same resources, have figured out how to stop him, even with the financial sledgehammer he possesses. So BBM City elite development squad manager means nothing to me. Then you have been one of the first team coaches at relegated Leicester Awesome.

Not sure why 43-year-old Evatt is only considered short term, against 40-year-old Des Buckingham or 43-year-old BBM?

For me it's between relatively inexperienced Evatt and Buckingham rather than no experience BBM & Rambo ( I assume he is still in the picture). All could be described as long-term projects, but we know they can do it rather than hope they can.

I know as fans, butter wouldn't melt in our mouths, but between the absent owner, the useless media and us, inexperience doesn't last long here.

Nothing to do with Tan,
DJ - 315 games close but no cigar
Lennie 174 Promotion to the championship

Tan era
Warnock 144 Promotion to Premier League
Malky 125 promotion to Premier League

Slade 86 tidying up the Ole mess
Harris 62 playoffs
Bulut 58
Morison 45
Riza 40
Mad mick 38
Ole 30


I think you are so loyal that you overestimate how many would return to a second season in L1 (assuming Tan is still here)

Some fair points and I agree that we don't want another Pep copycat as manager - but that's not what I think BBM is. He's done a bit of coaching there but the fact that there has long been interest in him from EFL clubs suggest that there's a bit more to him.

Your comment about him contributing to Leicester's relegation is a bit harsh. The problem there is their players weren't good enough and the change in manager was a mistake.

In terms of Evatt, I can't ever seeing him succeeding above League One. That's why I call him a quick fix.

But I don't think that's the case with Buckingham or Evatt.


You are absolutely right that we haven't done projects at the club. That may go some way to explaining why we're in League One now. I believe that without one now, one of two things will happen:

- We'll fluke promotion but then be in an even worse state going into the Championship as we were this season because we won't have the right structures in place

- Because of trying to have a quick fix, it will fail and we'll stagnate in League One for years


Something has to change in terms of how we do things. Of course we want Tan to go but it actually runs deeper than that.

We need a long term project or things will not improve, whoever owns us.


You may have a point that because I'll be there no matter how long we're in this league or even below it, I may be overestimating other fans' likelihood of signing up to seasons of this.

In my very humble opinion it has to be a build back up project from now, quick fix great but then its back to square one, the current owner will think its all good again and so it continues. Rebuild for me from bottom to top and vice versa and a manager who is going to be given the time to build.

Whichever manager that is I have no idea tbh,

I think the long-term project must happen, but i think it's at DoF rather than the manager.

The DoF is Tan, he is 70 years old, 7000 miles away, part time and still doesn't have a feel for the game.
Tan the owner needs a DoF who is the effective voice of the club, they set the tone, strategy, and recruitment.

You can then gamble on the head coach as the DoF has replacements with the required characteristics who are already being observed and lined up.

What are we going to be next season 433, 4231, 3421, 343 ? We can't keep on changing every 30 games.

I thought we needed a big name manager as they'd be so expensive to sack, we'd have to have a long term strategy.

I think Bellemy is at the cutting edge of modern tactics, we need to find someone with his beliefs. Not sure if that is Rambo.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive though.

We do need alot of planets to align:

- Manager recruitment needs to go well (not much recent proof of this going well)
- Recruitment needs to go well (not much recent proof of this going well)
- Budget/investment needed (recent windows spend and average wages have been above level of performance, regardless of what you think of Tan)
- Manager & recruitment need to hit the ground sprinting
- Manager needs to be left to manage (not much recent proof of this going well)
- Fanbase needs to be patient. We have a part to play. CCS last season was as bad as I can remember, back to the 90s!

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Evatt, Buckingham and Barry-Murphy are the final three names under consideration ?

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Evatt, Buckingham and Barry-Murphy are the final three names under consideration ?

That's why I said in my original post that it may not be any of these names, but this is all we've got to go off.

Although I was told (not something I can be 100% sure of) last night that Barry-Murphy was a real possibility. Annis posted similar this morning.

Evatt was definitely interviewed a couple of times.

Buckingham's name keeps coming up.


But this thread is less about the names, more about the two options - project or quick fix.

I still prefer a project.

Thanks. If thirty or more applied for the job and we are left with these three, I am sure I am not the only one to feel totally underwhelmed. This job had Rob Edwards’ name on it. He mustn’t have fancied it.

For me it has to be:

a) A quick fix - in Division 1

b) A project - when we are back in the Championship.


This year, one goal, and one goal only, immediate return to the Championship and, on this basis, I would put any manager on a 1 year deal with a substantial achievement bonus.

Along with a 12 month extension to then start a Championship project.

I disagree. I think that if it's a project, it has to start now.

Bringing in a quick fix for promotion and then trying to start a project from the bottom of the Championship is a lot more difficult.

I get why some want instant promotion but I believe a long term project starting now is better going forward. I would want us to be around the top six this season, hopefully going up - but certainly achieving promotion by year two.

It would stand us in much better stead in the long term. We need to use this relegation as an opportunity to do that.

Agree with this.

i think a project is the sensable thing to do it would require patience which not many cardiff fans have at the moment so im not holding my breathe as to what tan will do

Ok, if we do manage to keep Salech, Robertson, Rubin & Davies or Ashford, I can't see them hanging around for another season in L1 if we are not promoted. Then we are into L1 journeyman territory for their replacements.

Those 5 with Lawlor, Fish, Giles, Kopekia, Joel & King offer us some talent

Most L1 rebuilds are waiting for their championship journeyman contracts to expire.

I think a lot depends on whether we can do deals with Wintle, Willock, Chambers, and Horvath.

I think we could still get a fee for Turnbull and assume COD & CR are going for very little

More pace all around and a few thigs at the back and we'll be well on our way

i think a project is the sensable thing to do it would require patience which not many cardiff fans have at the moment so im not holding my breathe as to what tan will do

I don't think Tan has the patience

One thing I did read up on with BBM is that he’s excellent tactically, which some of our last managers haven’t been.

If he has an opportunity with this squad in this league, he could be both a quick fix with a long-term vision ahead.

Of course, it’s a risk with the lack of experience, so I hope he will bring a decent coaching team and a reliable assistant. We tend to choose the coaches for the manager which doesn’t bode well unless they fit the manager’s philosophy.

One thing I did read up on with BBM is that he’s excellent tactically, which some of our last managers haven’t been.

If he has an opportunity with this squad in this league, he could be both a quick fix with a long-term vision ahead.

Of course, it’s a risk with the lack of experience, so I hope he will bring a decent coaching team and a reliable assistant. We tend to choose the coaches for the manager which doesn’t bode well unless they fit the manager’s philosophy.

Riza was in Englands, St George's Park system. With all due respect, nobody knows how BBM will react leading a football club. He chose to go back into coaching after Rochdale. This club fries your brain; it's too big compared to nearly every other club that has some sort off field footballing system/structure.

Riza with a career in coaching non-first-teamers, thought this would be his launchpad and he crashed and burned pretty spectacularly. You need to draw on some sort of experience and have a good, solid team around you, a team you trust. Malky had his team, so did Warnock.

The pressure will be massive this season. If we are not top 4 by the end of October, gates will be down, dissent will be up, it will go from bland acceptance to toxic if we are any lower than 6th.

Tan is a gambler, god knows what's going to happen, but of the 4 mentioned
1- Buckingham- L1 promotion on his CV a fair time managing pro footballers (much lower level, but they are still people)
2- Evatt - started at the bottom and succeeded, love that. Finished much higher than Oxford but lost the game that counted to Buckingham
3- Rambo - He doesn't need the job, if he says its a shit show, we'll believe him. His reputation carries a lot of good will.
4- BBM- No form in the book as the main man, its the crazest in my eyes so most likely to happen

One thing I did read up on with BBM is that he’s excellent tactically, which some of our last managers haven’t been.

If he has an opportunity with this squad in this league, he could be both a quick fix with a long-term vision ahead.

Of course, it’s a risk with the lack of experience, so I hope he will bring a decent coaching team and a reliable assistant. We tend to choose the coaches for the manager which doesn’t bode well unless they fit the manager’s philosophy.

Riza was in Englands, St George's Park system. With all due respect, nobody knows how BBM will react leading a football club. He chose to go back into coaching after Rochdale. This club fries your brain; it's too big compared to nearly every other club that has some sort off field footballing system/structure.

Riza with a career in coaching non-first-teamers, thought this would be his launchpad and he crashed and burned pretty spectacularly. You need to draw on some sort of experience and have a good, solid team around you, a team you trust. Malky had his team, so did Warnock.

The pressure will be massive this season. If we are not top 4 by the end of October, gates will be down, dissent will be up, it will go from bland acceptance to toxic if we are any lower than 6th.

Tan is a gambler, god knows what's going to happen, but of the 4 mentioned
1- Buckingham- L1 promotion on his CV a fair time managing pro footballers (much lower level, but they are still people)
2- Evatt - started at the bottom and succeeded, love that. Finished much higher than Oxford but lost the game that counted to Buckingham
3- Rambo - He doesn't need the job, if he says its a shit show, we'll believe him. His reputation carries a lot of good will.
4- BBM- No form in the book as the main man, its the crazest in my eyes so most likely to happen

Agree it’s a risk, and seems to be at least more tactically mature than Riza.

But I agree it’s probably not where I go, since I couldn’t trust this club to give any young new manger the support he need, with no football expertise above the manager level.

Buckingham or Evatt are probably the most suited out of the names, I’m leaning more Buckingham.

Quick fix we're a lot more attractive to potential buyers in the championship.
I can't see a long term project happening with Tan here

Farcical if they don’t give the job to Rambo

Farcical if they don’t give the job to Rambo

How?

You take what comes can never turn down promotion opportunities never know when get another chance or where it may lead to? Ipswich fans must ghought same in div1 look where that led to?
Football a lot of times is the here and now not what or if ..

Went for a walk this morning and thought about this subject

The players are the project or quick fix, not necessarily the manager.

Wrexham has gone for a quick fix with their successful strategy of paying older players dropping down the leagues at the expense of youth. It's progressively going to be very expensive and short-term.

We have youth and need a few tough nuts and a manager to mould them into a unit. The kids will get tougher and improve,whilst the older pros stop running.

For me, we just need a manager who has demonstrated he can merge youth and know what senior pro's we need.

For instance, Warnock was allergic to youth, so he is short-term.

We are a project then anyway as the bulk of our squad has less than 50 starts.

The more i read about Buckingham, the more i favour him