Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

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Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby llan bluebird » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:49 pm

I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins
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Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby worcester_ccfc » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:53 pm

Very good post.

Your expectations on the team were similar to mine. I found it beyond strange that Colwill was dropped.

Sometimes I think we don’t really know what we’re doing in an attacking sense. We obviously set up not to concede but that doesn’t work because we’re not very good at defending when we sit deep.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby bluebirdoct1962 » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:53 pm

llan bluebird wrote:I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins

Good post mate with some good points. I did notice that Grant did cut in a fair bit during the first 30 mins which coincidentally was our best spell in the game.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby Simplesimon » Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:38 pm

bluebirdoct1962 wrote:
llan bluebird wrote:I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins

Good post mate with some good points. I did notice that Grant did cut in a fair bit during the first 30 mins which coincidentally was our best spell in the game.

Grant and bowler cutting in to their strongest foot isn’t the way forward. Teams have long ago sussed that out. If bowler and grant are to remain starting. They need to chop and change wings, to mix it up a bit.
Otherwise. Get rid of them as we don’t use wide men. Everything is played narrrow, up front
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby Simplesimon » Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:42 pm

bluebirdoct1962 wrote:
llan bluebird wrote:I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins

Good post mate with some good points. I did notice that Grant did cut in a fair bit during the first 30 mins which coincidentally was our best spell in the game.


It was coincidental and nothing to do with Grant, from what I saw.
don’t know why. But I wanted Grant to do so well. But he has hasn’t.
Runs a lot, but next to feck all on final delivery. But I agree he’s scored a couple .
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby Simplesimon » Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:45 pm

llan bluebird wrote:I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins


Errol doesn’t seem to want more than 1 creative player on at once. The rest appear to need to be wanted WFPB running and chasing.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby mugsy » Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:31 pm

Simplesimon wrote:
bluebirdoct1962 wrote:
llan bluebird wrote:I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins

Good post mate with some good points. I did notice that Grant did cut in a fair bit during the first 30 mins which coincidentally was our best spell in the game.

Grant and bowler cutting in to their strongest foot isn’t the way forward. Teams have long ago sussed that out. If bowler and grant are to remain starting. They need to chop and change wings, to mix it up a bit.
Otherwise. Get rid of them as we don’t use wide men. Everything is played narrrow, up front


Quite right - why the hell don't our wingers swop over when we are not getting any joy against a particular full back. The likes of Mendez Laing, Burke, Conway etc regularly went over to the other wing to change things up. Bowler again today was a one trip pony that I could have marked out of the game.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby rumpo kid » Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:46 pm

Both wingers would if they were good enough. Either way you have to beat your man.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:41 am

Should be asking bulut why does the team play same direction as the opposition towards our goal!! Watching from high up you see the formation and movement of team and its simple pass out to midfield pass back pass to midfield pass to foward player pass back ect ect and when do manage to get to opposition penalty area a cross is last thing on players mind ... I liken it to watching man city but at lower non league standard they pass and pass knowing they will eventually score but with city theres no possibility of scoring as don't have haaland in team.. :o
What's even more worrying is we have twice as many goals from dead ball situation as rest league but now for whatever reason can't get ball anywhere near opposition goals when get opportunity.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby Welshman in CA » Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:44 pm

pembroke allan wrote:Should be asking bulut why does the team play same direction as the opposition towards our goal!! Watching from high up you see the formation and movement of team and its simple pass out to midfield pass back pass to midfield pass to foward player pass back ect ect and when do manage to get to opposition penalty area a cross is last thing on players mind ... I liken it to watching man city but at lower non league standard they pass and pass knowing they will eventually score but with city theres no possibility of scoring as don't have haaland in team.. :o
What's even more worrying is we have twice as many goals from dead ball situation as rest league but now for whatever reason can't get ball anywhere near opposition goals when get opportunity.


You don't need to be high up to see that Allan, I said exactly the same on the match thread 12 minutes into the game and I'm 6,000 miles away. :lol:
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby oohahhPaulMillar » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:31 pm

The team he picked yesterday was just far to defensive

It was no coincidence that Ramsey even though he was very rusty had our best chance of the game a header when he got around the back of the defence

None of our midfielders or wingers ever get themselves into scoring positions beyond the opposition centre backs. He did it within 15 minutes of coming on

We need to play 2 strikers as well as Ramsey or Colwill and wide players we get to the byline

He needs to change things before we get sucked into a relegation battle
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby MillenniumNova » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:55 pm

llan bluebird wrote:I was half excited getting onto the 14:01 train at Llanishen then I saw the team, WTF is he doing? Wintle and Siopis !!!!!

I was expecting the back 4, Siopis sitting with Turnbull and Colwill in a far more lightweight but attacking midfield. Grant is an automatic starter and with Bowler scoring his worldly I guessed he would start even though Bulut said he was going to hook him before he scored it. I was expecting Meite to start as centre forward if Diedou wasn't fit enough

Bulut seems wed to a target man, even though we don't have a championship level one, but we also pass out from the back. When we take the risk of tossing around at the back what are we trying to do? We often make clever space by adding NG into midfeild then Turnbull or Colwill gets the in a bit of space, to do what?

Grant is often behind the ball because he wants it in front of him, he turns like an oil tanker with it
Bowler gets the ball, slows down sets to cut inside, cuts inside to two markers as he almost waits for them to double up and one time in 100 gets a shot in. He rarely goes outside so never lofts one in
Etete against proper championship defenders can't hold onto the ball, turn and run nor run in behind.

So my question is what are we trying to do?

IMO With Turnbull, Colwill and Rambo all passers surely we need more of a deep running threat, so Grant needs to come far more centrally and stop covering Collins


I mostly agree with your posts, we tend to understand football tactics and this is definitely a good point.

If he has an identity/philosophy, he needs to use it properly. Yes, some good managers will change some things against certain opposition, but still within the philosophy set on the team.

I really hope we see changes soon, this was a poor decision from the manager, normally I back him when players don’t show up, but this is definitely on him.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby MillenniumNova » Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:02 pm

If Erol wants to continue bringing fullbacks into midfield, that’s fine with me. But this is what needs to happen:

Fullback comes into midfield, forms a pivot with the CDM, on occasions, both come in and form a midfield 3 with the two CBs behind, this is easy to create a 5 player passing route at the back.

With the defensive set up of the midfield 2/3 created by CDM and fullback(s), you can push two 8’s forward into an attacking-5 - RW, 8, ST, 8, LW
- 8, RW, ST, LW, 8 (overlapping 8’s)

Of course, on the counter you have the 5 players at the back to get into shape, this is helped when the front 5 press hard.

This seems to be what Bulut wants? But it’s nowhere near being executed on the field.
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:16 pm

Welshman in CA wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:Should be asking bulut why does the team play same direction as the opposition towards our goal!! Watching from high up you see the formation and movement of team and its simple pass out to midfield pass back pass to midfield pass to foward player pass back ect ect and when do manage to get to opposition penalty area a cross is last thing on players mind ... I liken it to watching man city but at lower non league standard they pass and pass knowing they will eventually score but with city theres no possibility of scoring as don't have haaland in team.. :o
What's even more worrying is we have twice as many goals from dead ball situation as rest league but now for whatever reason can't get ball anywhere near opposition goals when get opportunity.


You don't need to be high up to see that Allan, I said exactly the same on the match thread 12 minutes into the game and I'm 6,000 miles away. :lol:




Unfortunately don't read match thread as no signal in seat area ... :D but if we see it why can't bulut? :o
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Re: Tactics - Whats are we trying to do?

Postby SB 1927 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:48 pm

Excellent post :clap:

I feel that, for alot of the times, we are a mirror of the opposition (formation-wise) but with less like-for-like quality.

We have 6 defensive midfielders, who don't really make us hard to breakdown or score against/and then an isolated attack who cant lay a glove on the opposition in open play.

It's a nightmare scenario, as we need to beef up the defence AND add more firepower/support.

I'd love to see Wintle sacrificed for someone closer (permanently) to Etete/striker.

Or 5 at the back, 3CB&wingbacks.

What we're stuck with is scraping just enough points but its dire. When we lose, we're well beaten.
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