' John Toshack '

John Toshack pictured here at just 16 years old, enjoying a post-game drink after scoring on his debut for Cardiff City in a 3-1 win vs Leyton Orient in 1965.


John Toshack League 2 (Now Championship ) just 16 years old and scoring for the Bluebirds first team

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We didnt wait until he was "ready". He was good enough so he was in and by 18 was our top striker. For a few games he played alongside George Johnstone who was only 19 himself - though we sold him soon afterwards to Arsenal.

Pass it on to colwill and tell him to stop being a big jessy.

Caked in mud. You don't see that these days.

Awesome!

We didnt wait until he was "ready". He was good enough so he was in and by 18 was our top striker. For a few games he played alongside George Johnstone who was only 19 himself - though we sold him soon afterwards to Arsenal.

Just shows at this age if you really are good you will be in the first team, not sent on loan to Non league clubs.

This thread just goes to show how many fans are clueless when it comes to modern day football fitness and well being. Just ask Connor Wickham. Overplayed at 17 while he was still growing and what you get in the end is being injury prone. Norman Whiteside was another, Man U superstar at 17 ,scrapheap at 27.This back in the day bollocks is just that bollocks, like comparing a cart horse to a racehorse.

This thread just goes to show how many fans are clueless when it comes to modern day football fitness and well being. Just ask Connor Wickham. Overplayed at 17 while he was still growing and what you get in the end is being injury prone. Norman Whiteside was another, Man U superstar at 17 ,scrapheap at 27.This back in the day bollocks is just that bollocks, like comparing a cart horse to a racehorse.

So Martin,


When Dalman aka Glen Williams Media Wales says that our 21,22 and even said Harris at 24 are our kids and need experience else where and on the lower leagues , do you agree with that?

This thread just goes to show how many fans are clueless when it comes to modern day football fitness and well being. Just ask Connor Wickham. Overplayed at 17 while he was still growing and what you get in the end is being injury prone. Norman Whiteside was another, Man U superstar at 17 ,scrapheap at 27.This back in the day bollocks is just that bollocks, like comparing a cart horse to a racehorse.

There will always be players who had to end their career prematurely for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily mean because they were overplayed. And as for carthorses, most of Alex Fergusons best teams started very young and had long and successful careers, Ronaldo, Beckham and Giggs to name just three (plus Keane when he started at Forest). Add to this the likes of Trevor Francis, debut at 16 still playing in his mid thirties. Some carthorses!

And don't forget that today we have FIVE substitutes to call on.

This thread just goes to show how many fans are clueless when it comes to modern day football fitness and well being. Just ask Connor Wickham. Overplayed at 17 while he was still growing and what you get in the end is being injury prone. Norman Whiteside was another, Man U superstar at 17 ,scrapheap at 27.This back in the day bollocks is just that bollocks, like comparing a cart horse to a racehorse.

There will always be players who had to end their career prematurely for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily mean because they were overplayed. And as for carthorses, most of Alex Fergusons best teams started very young and had long and successful careers, Ronaldo, Beckham and Giggs to name just three (plus Keane when he started at Forest). Add to this the likes of Trevor Francis, debut at 16 still playing in his mid thirties. Some carthorses!

And don't forget that today we have FIVE substitutes to call on.

Listen mate you can easily flip this argument your just quoting the names of some of the famous ones. The ones burned out by 21 are the ones you haven't heard about and the fitness standard expected of the modern game is so much higher than back in the day.

This thread just goes to show how many fans are clueless when it comes to modern day football fitness and well being. Just ask Connor Wickham. Overplayed at 17 while he was still growing and what you get in the end is being injury prone. Norman Whiteside was another, Man U superstar at 17 ,scrapheap at 27.This back in the day bollocks is just that bollocks, like comparing a cart horse to a racehorse.

There will always be players who had to end their career prematurely for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily mean because they were overplayed. And as for carthorses, most of Alex Fergusons best teams started very young and had long and successful careers, Ronaldo, Beckham and Giggs to name just three (plus Keane when he started at Forest). Add to this the likes of Trevor Francis, debut at 16 still playing in his mid thirties. Some carthorses!

And don't forget that today we have FIVE substitutes to call on.

Listen mate you can easily flip this argument your just quoting the names of some of the famous ones. The ones burned out by 21 are the ones you haven't heard about and the fitness standard expected of the modern game is so much higher than back in the day.

Fitness levels may be higher but the game is far less physical than it was and the pitches less demanding. No one is saying you play an 18 year old for 90 minutes week in week out, but with the number of substitutions numbers allowed its never been easier to give a promising youngster an extended run in the first team if he is good enough.