O/T - Should there be an Amnesty?

As always, I have no answers......but I invite you all, fellow City fans and lurkers, to spend 18 minutes observing the link below.

https://youtu.be/3m3yi82A8Zc?t=1130

It is not for the closed minded, it is for the courageous who seek exploration of the truth. If you cannot handle the truth I get it, but please don't comment if you cannot find 18 minutes to hear.

If yiou can find those 18 minutes, I welcome your views.

Love to all.

As always, I have no answers......but I invite you all, fellow City fans and lurkers, to spend 18 minutes observing the link below.

https://youtu.be/3m3yi82A8Zc?t=1130

It is not for the closed minded, it is for the courageous who seek exploration of the truth. If you cannot handle the truth I get it, but please don't comment if you cannot find 18 minutes to hear.

If yiou can find those 18 minutes, I welcome your views.

Love to all.

18 minutes is far to long for me.... so lucky for you I shall refrain from joining the debate
But wish you well with it.

I always look out for Neil Oliver as he talks so much sense about this and other important subjects that have and will impact us. I'm very wary of the WHO, WEF, UN and the 'state' in general, pretty much as a result of Covid, as it simply strikes me that a global lockdown is unprecedented and was entirely unnecessary. For something apparently so serious, Covid is now conveniently forgotten about and not even discussed. I won't forget the photos from Wuhan showing bodies in the streets and the MSM mantra of how serious it was. Boris, telling us at 6pm every night that we should stay in and stay apart and at precisely 6:45pm, he's enjoying drinks and nibbles in the garden of Number 10. Can't have been that serious, could it, as he'd know all about it from the 'experts'.

I also don't believe that the energy crisis is caused by the Ukraine war, it's being gamed, just like Covid and Big Energy firms are reaping the rewards, such as BP and Shell. The Saudi's and OPEC recently announced they would be cutting oil production, to keep prices high.

So Oliver is a guy I look out for amongst a few others, as they are not conspiracy theorists and are a valuable source of opinion in a sea of controlled MSM propaganda and self serving narrative.

"I know we fired people from their jobs and exiled them from society, but we didn't know. I know we arrested old women for feeding pigeons and trampled people with horses, and raided their homes, but we were misinformed. I know the economy is wrecked, and now kids have weird heart issues but we were only following orders"

The article has no apology and doesn't accept any wrongdoing. No to an amnesty, yes to a tribunal.

https://twitter.com/just_mindy/status/1 ... 2055629826

I really like Andrew Oliver. He's well-articulated and his arguments are always based on sense and logic.

"I know we fired people from their jobs and exiled them from society, but we didn't know. I know we arrested old women for feeding pigeons and trampled people with horses, and raided their homes, but we were misinformed. I know the economy is wrecked, and now kids have weird heart issues but we were only following orders"

The article has no apology and doesn't accept any wrongdoing. No to an amnesty, yes to a tribunal.

https://twitter.com/just_mindy/status/1 ... 2055629826

I really like Andrew Oliver. He's well-articulated and his arguments are always based on sense and logic.

Neil Oliver*

As always, I have no answers......but I invite you all, fellow City fans and lurkers, to spend 18 minutes observing the link below.

https://youtu.be/3m3yi82A8Zc?t=1130

It is not for the closed minded, it is for the courageous who seek exploration of the truth. If you cannot handle the truth I get it, but please don't comment if you cannot find 18 minutes to hear.

If yiou can find those 18 minutes, I welcome your views.

Love to all.

18 minutes is far to long for me.... so lucky for you I shall refrain from joining the debate
But wish you well with it.

I guess a guy who has made over 25K posts on this forum.....time must be tight Allan....

As always, I have no answers......but I invite you all, fellow City fans and lurkers, to spend 18 minutes observing the link below.

https://youtu.be/3m3yi82A8Zc?t=1130

It is not for the closed minded, it is for the courageous who seek exploration of the truth. If you cannot handle the truth I get it, but please don't comment if you cannot find 18 minutes to hear.

If yiou can find those 18 minutes, I welcome your views.

Love to all.

18 minutes is far to long for me.... so lucky for you I shall refrain from joining the debate
But wish you well with it.

I guess a guy who has made over 25K posts on this forum.....time must be tight Allan....

Yes surprisingly tight post nowhere near as much as previously? And looking for 18mins on something regardless of its content is something never done ... especially when it comes to knowing the truth? As said many times the truth is purely what you believe is true take a guess my thoughts on what's true is far removed from yours!

I always look out for Neil Oliver as he talks so much sense about this and other important subjects that have and will impact us. I'm very wary of the WHO, WEF, UN and the 'state' in general, pretty much as a result of Covid, as it simply strikes me that a global lockdown is unprecedented and was entirely unnecessary. For something apparently so serious, Covid is now conveniently forgotten about and not even discussed. I won't forget the photos from Wuhan showing bodies in the streets and the MSM mantra of how serious it was. Boris, telling us at 6pm every night that we should stay in and stay apart and at precisely 6:45pm, he's enjoying drinks and nibbles in the garden of Number 10. Can't have been that serious, could it, as he'd know all about it from the 'experts'.

I also don't believe that the energy crisis is caused by the Ukraine war, it's being gamed, just like Covid and Big Energy firms are reaping the rewards, such as BP and Shell. The Saudi's and OPEC recently announced they would be cutting oil production, to keep prices high.

So Oliver is a guy I look out for amongst a few others, as they are not conspiracy theorists and are a valuable source of opinion in a sea of controlled MSM propaganda and self serving narrative.

Oliver is spot on and as you say we’re being played and the Great Reset fix is in. Russell Brand is worth checking out on this as well.

Torn on this question - literally thinking it though as I type so apologies for a long and potentially rambling post.

On one side we are too divided as a society and the appeal of moving past one divisive issue can only be a good thing.

On the other, we were divided because so many authoritative voices were blindly trusted by the majority and led to believe things that we now know are patently not true (virulence of the virus, efficacy and safety of the vaccines). If there is no accountability then we will never learn.

This thinking leads me towards potential thinking amnesty amongst us mere proles, and a tribunal for those in power that caused this with their inaccurate modelling, draconian yet ineffective lockdowns and rushed vaccines with legal indemnity for big pharma.

Yet where does the line get drawn?

Like JasonFowler1991 points out, do we provide amnesty for the police officers that were only following orders when they abused the citizens they were sworn to protect?

There are so many examples of such actions that it has hard to know where to start but here is another recent one that has come to light:

Police force entry without warrant, intimidate the elderly owner, barge her daughter to the floor which triggers a seizure and then scream at the family (including a ten year old boy) to step away from the daughter while they try to support her on the floor. Do these officers deserve amnesty because they were following orders? https://youtu.be/UbiBrlx9_Y8

Do we provide them amnesty for what Lord Sumpton described as “the most significant interference with personal freedom in the history of our country, with restrictions that have not been previously been enacted even during war time or health crises “even more serious than this one.”

Laws that it has been argued were ultra vires (i.e. without legal basis)

Interesting (but hour long) presentation hosted by Cambridge Law Faculty on this here https://youtu.be/amDv2gk8aa0

Then we need to ask what about those who weren't acting in authoritative capacity, but just the regular folk that turned on their neighbours?

At first glance, they are victims, misled and manipulated by a constant barrage of fear mongering across all media. Convinced we faced an existential threat, and coerced into accepting the lockdown measures and the vaccines for the greater good. There is a big part of me that would agree with an amnesty here, it could be argued, it wasn't their fault they turned on their neighbours who had the temerity to raise questions about the vaccines and lockdowns.

It was, it could be argued the weaponisation of mob-mentality.

The individuals within the mob, it could be argued, were only guilting in trusting in an authorities they believed would have their best interests at hand. Trusting that those authorities wouldn't lie to them and who wouldn't put them at risk.

Their greatest crime was perhaps not the vitriolic abuse they happily dished out to those who fell outside of the official narrative, but instead it was their blind ignorance to educate themselves better on the subject before taking such highly opinionated positions.

It was in their naive belief that they could outsource the decision-making process on such major matters as to handing over their own personal liberties on a plate, and even bodily autonomy to the 'experts'. However, only the right type of experts, that stay on message.

How often, was any reference to valid arguments made by respected and credentialed 'experts' that broke from the agreed narrative pushed to the fringe? How many of the regular people then trotted out lines like "I'll listen to the scientists, not some bloke on youtube' having never taken the time to actually listen to 'the bloke on youtube' and find out that he was indeed a highly respected expert in their field.

By taking that high and mighty, blind and happily ignorant approach, the majority enabled and empowered those in authority to push far beyond what we as a society should have allowed. Do they deserve amnesty?

As PembrokeAllen often says on this topic, people are responsible for finding the truth themselves.

Some will blindly follow what the man on the TV says, others will dig deeper into the data, to educate themselves better, so they can make decisions themselves based on their own conclusions. The question I'm trying to resolve in my mind is whether ignorance is enough of a compelling argument that would allow those that were ridiculed and derided for two years to offer forgiveness.

Personally, I lean into yes, regardless of whether that ignorance is wilfully adopted or not, it is still ignorance of all the facts and if we are to be better as a society, if we are to move on, we need forgiveness.

However, when it comes to the politicians, the advisors and their enforcers, I say no.

If there is no accountability, then there will be no lessons to be learnt - and while we can forgive, we should never forget these last few years and the incompetent and heavy handed handling that was implemented that will have hurt us all far more than the virus ever could.

Ealing thanks for the mention... all i would say is I know the authorities lied and misled people by manipulating scientific evidence but so did people
who had interest in making money out pandemic......Not all evidence was false so the "worlds" gvmnts decided what was in best interests of their people..... I also I know people with opposite view on pandemic lied for precisely same reason as my 1st point ..... so hence my point that it was my choice to have vaccine based on what knowledge I had and so did rest of uk... at end day was it right to restrictions on peoples rights? Hard question as if didn't and many millions more had died that would be failure of the governments of uk would any of us be willing to have that responsibility? Sorry but If people were scared into the vaccine by authorities
so were people scared by others not to have vaccine using same tactics..... we in uk had luxury of making a free choice other countries peoples didn't have any choice.

Ealing thanks for the mention... all i would say is I know the authorities lied and misled people by manipulating scientific evidence but so did people
who had interest in making money out pandemic......Not all evidence was false so the "worlds" gvmnts decided what was in best interests of their people..... I also I know people with opposite view on pandemic lied for precisely same reason as my 1st point ..... so hence my point that it was my choice to have vaccine based on what knowledge I had and so did rest of uk... at end day was it right to restrictions on peoples rights? Hard question as if didn't and many millions more had died that would be failure of the governments of uk would any of us be willing to have that responsibility? Sorry but If people were scared into the vaccine by authorities
so were people scared by others not to have vaccine using same tactics..... we in uk had luxury of making a free choice other countries peoples didn't have any choice.

Thanks Allan - hope all is well with you

One thing we definitely agree on (in addition to Carib being a lovely beer) - is that people should take the responsibility to make a decision on the information they had access to and chosen to read.

That should have always been the case, a matter of personal choice.

I think it was the demonisation of those who having done their own reading and then made a choice to not be vaccinated, or even just to even raise questions about the vaccinations or lock-downs that leaves so many angry. People being told they were 'selfish granny killers', people saying 'fine don't get the vaccine but if you get COVID just die and don't trouble the NHS' etc, and being told such things by people who clearly haven't taken your outlook and made your own decision, but just went with the herd because it was easier to fit in, that is what wrankles for a lot of people now.

If there hadn't been so much anger directed at those that felt something wasn't right with everything, if people had been left to make up their own minds and if there had have been a more balanced discussion in the media then discussions about amnesty would never be needed in the first place.

One final point, that just occurred to me - if the numbers were to be believed then the percentage on non-vaccinated was so small that why would their need to be an amnesty. If 90% of the population as we were led to believe were vaccinated, then why would such a majority need to be asking for an amnesty with a tenth of the population?

Even the language is interesting - the definition of an amnesty an official pardon for people who have been convicted of political offences. By calling for amnesty are the Atlantic (I believe it was them that first raised this notion of COVID amnesty) acknowledging that offences have been caused?

I always look out for Neil Oliver as he talks so much sense about this and other important subjects that have and will impact us. I'm very wary of the WHO, WEF, UN and the 'state' in general, pretty much as a result of Covid, as it simply strikes me that a global lockdown is unprecedented and was entirely unnecessary. For something apparently so serious, Covid is now conveniently forgotten about and not even discussed. I won't forget the photos from Wuhan showing bodies in the streets and the MSM mantra of how serious it was. Boris, telling us at 6pm every night that we should stay in and stay apart and at precisely 6:45pm, he's enjoying drinks and nibbles in the garden of Number 10. Can't have been that serious, could it, as he'd know all about it from the 'experts'.

I also don't believe that the energy crisis is caused by the Ukraine war, it's being gamed, just like Covid and Big Energy firms are reaping the rewards, such as BP and Shell. The Saudi's and OPEC recently announced they would be cutting oil production, to keep prices high.

So Oliver is a guy I look out for amongst a few others, as they are not conspiracy theorists and are a valuable source of opinion in a sea of controlled MSM propaganda and self serving narrative.

I couldn’t listen to the whole clip, Matt Hancock should be sacked as an MP for this I’m a celebrity shit. Getting paid as an MP while not even turning up. It’s a joke.

I don’t understand why the government hasn’t levied a windfall tax against the oil companies, I think their MD’s have even suggested they should. And wholesale energy prices are generally back to or below where they were beginning of this year. But on the opec cut, that was an interesting one. I read, that in addition to the cut this month They implemented a price hike to American purchases, no change to Asian purchases and apparently a slight cut in prices to Europe. I wouldn’t know how to verify that. But also read on another blog that next year, even with the cut in opec output, oil supply is expected to out strip demand around March/April time as the world goes into recession. With prices expected to fall again.
Either way, I don’t understand how the feck our utility costs need to be as high as they are

Ealing thanks for the mention... all i would say is I know the authorities lied and misled people by manipulating scientific evidence but so did people
who had interest in making money out pandemic......Not all evidence was false so the "worlds" gvmnts decided what was in best interests of their people..... I also I know people with opposite view on pandemic lied for precisely same reason as my 1st point ..... so hence my point that it was my choice to have vaccine based on what knowledge I had and so did rest of uk... at end day was it right to restrictions on peoples rights? Hard question as if didn't and many millions more had died that would be failure of the governments of uk would any of us be willing to have that responsibility? Sorry but If people were scared into the vaccine by authorities
so were people scared by others not to have vaccine using same tactics..... we in uk had luxury of making a free choice other countries peoples didn't have any choice.

Ealing thanks for the mention... all i would say is I know the authorities lied and misled people by manipulating scientific evidence but so did people
who had interest in making money out pandemic......Not all evidence was false so the "worlds" gvmnts decided what was in best interests of their people..... I also I know people with opposite view on pandemic lied for precisely same reason as my 1st point ..... so hence my point that it was my choice to have vaccine based on what knowledge I had and so did rest of uk... at end day was it right to restrictions on peoples rights? Hard question as if didn't and many millions more had died that would be failure of the governments of uk would any of us be willing to have that responsibility? Sorry but If people were scared into the vaccine by authorities
so were people scared by others not to have vaccine using same tactics..... we in uk had luxury of making a free choice other countries peoples didn't have any choice.

Free choice?

Is blackmail, ridicule, coercion, and military-grade propaganda free choice?

Is being stamped on for protesting free choice? Is it free choice when you're arrested for going for a walk? Is it a free choice if you lose your job for not taking the vaccine?

The data was always there; we shouted it from the rooftops. It was always targeting the elderly and unhealthy, with a high survival rate and low death rate. Instead of people listening, we were dehumanized and shamed. Any scientist who came forward against the narrative was de-platformed. Posts shared on social media were flagged as "fake news."

As always, the media, government, and corporations' version of "science" coincidently followed the money. When the data became so clear, as did on the ground/field evidence, they had to backtrack and the science "changed".

To this day, they are still pushing the vaccine on children, despite the risks we're aware of.

It's gross and sickening what they did.