The, Grange Hospital Cwmbran

My father in law was, admitted through A&E.
My partner and myself went to
A&E to look for him.
There was a couple in front of the us talking to the receptionist. He, says my wife is having an attack.
The receptionist says you'll have to go outside and book in at the kiosk.
My father in law suddenly passed away. The auxiliary nurse comes in the room and starts tickling him saying when he was alive he didn't like being tickled I can do it now. Then to cap it all she lays the bed down and says, I have to lay his hands Down flat others they won't get the lid on the coffin
It was like a scene from Carry on doctor.
.

My father in law was, admitted through A&E.
My partner and myself went to
A&E to look for him.
There was a couple in front of the us talking to the receptionist. He, says my wife is having an attack.
The receptionist says you'll have to go outside and book in at the kiosk.
My father in law suddenly passed away. The auxiliary nurse comes in the room and starts tickling him saying when he was alive he didn't like being tickled I can do it now. Then to cap it all she lays the bed down and says, I have to lay his hands Down flat others they won't get the lid on the coffin
It was like a scene from Carry on doctor.
.

First of all, my deep condolences mate.
This really sounds like a horror story. I’d report all of those incidents and / or go to the local press. Make sure you have names.

My father in law was, admitted through A&E.
My partner and myself went to
A&E to look for him.
There was a couple in front of the us talking to the receptionist. He, says my wife is having an attack.
The receptionist says you'll have to go outside and book in at the kiosk.
My father in law suddenly passed away. The auxiliary nurse comes in the room and starts tickling him saying when he was alive he didn't like being tickled I can do it now. Then to cap it all she lays the bed down and says, I have to lay his hands Down flat others they won't get the lid on the coffin
It was like a scene from Carry on doctor.
.

Condolences mate.

The tickling thing seems incredibly odd and very worrying.

That is dreadful mate,sorry for your loss

Sorry for your loss mate, you'd think they'd be sensitive.

I know someone who works at that hospital - and they have big problems - mainly staffing issues so Im told.

My condolences to your family, the staff sound like they have not been trained in any way shape or form. I would speak to your AM - who is probably Labour and seeing as it's a Labour administration in the Senedd and they are 100% responsible for all Health in Wales - they will probably do nothing about it.

The staff shouldl not be reacting or behaving in this way.

I thought this was a joke ?

My mother in law lives up near Brynmawr, she thought she was having a heart attack so my mrs rushed her to the gp, receptionist says you haven’t got an appointment, mrs goes nuts, nurse hears, rushes out, calls doctor, it wasn’t a heart attack but something to do with the airways, he gives her a steroid inhaler and instructs receptionist to call an ambulance, they say 4 hour wait, gp says no way and tells mrs to drive her straight to Cwmbran a&e. At this time Mother in law swears blind she was dying, could barely breathe even with the inhaler. They get to The Grange and receptionist says take a seat! Mrs loses her mind and nearly reaches across the counter at her while mum in law still ‘dying’. Doctor nearby hears the commotion and takes them through and treats her immediately. She made a full recovery after a night on the ward. Mother in law maintains that if they’d waited for the ambulance or taken a seat she would’ve died.

I thought this was a joke ?

No joke mate.I forgot to add the same The auxiliary nurse opened the window to let his soul out.
There were also issues with his nursing home,he was dehydrated when he was admitted.
There's massive issue with social care and NHS Wales.
The nursing home called for an ambulance,they were told up there was up to an eight hour wait.my sister in law went to the home and took him to hospital.
The nursing home is situated next door to an ambulance station.

Not Wales NHS or Drakefords fault. The population has increased by 11 million in 30 years, and life expectancy increased greatly. Add a much broader range of treatments available, then this system will struggle.
If politicians could fix I’m sure they would, but it’s down to finances ultimately.

My Father passed away a week ago after having a Transfusion and, his Heart was not strong enough to pump the blood. We anaged to keep him alive and get him to Prince Charles. He took his final breath 20 hours later in Resus with us all around him. When he was taken to the Morgue, a Nigerian Nurse told us that he wouldn't be allowed to be cremated because he had a Pacemaker fitted. Now, I'm all for foreign nurses working for NHS Wales, because it is severely under staffed, but Cwm Taf HB should be issuing Staff guidance on stuff like this to their Employees. My Mother was livid!! Telling her that he will be cremated. She apologised later saying no guidance is given as to this kind of thing. Shocking what really goes on in our Hospitals.

I think Labour has to take the blame, that's how the system works. but mass immigration is placing a lot of pressure on services. Quite a few of these problems aren't financial, they just require some extra organisation, "care" and attention in a time of death or potential death for families. People should write to A.M. or M.P. or Hospital manager and hope something changes

Only way it would sort itself out is,

Pay the Dr’s, Qualified staff, Auxiliary nurses and other staff what they should get and not what they are on now. This would keep staff encourage people to join and put paid to agency staff.

Reduce pen pushing staff and non essential paper pushers to help pay it.

Lastly give the consultants the power to make changes and improvements in their areas of the hospitals. They work in these places and are aware of what they need and how it should work, not a pen pusher who has no idea.

Probably wouldn’t improve some of it but go a long way to getting it back on track.

My brother in law has terminal cancer, he’s near the end now. He’s at home, He’s supposed to be getting 750ml of fluids through his tube, they couldn’t understand why he was so dehydrated, Doctor was checking his notes and noticed there was too much fluid left over assigned to him, Nurse had only be giving him 75ml, shambles. Doctor came to the house, apologised profusely and even offered the paperwork should we want to take it further.

My father went into same hospital came out even worse, a few weeks later he died, still no sign of test notes from when he first went it. Place is a shambles.

Only way it would sort itself out is,

Pay the Dr’s, Qualified staff, Auxiliary nurses and other staff what they should get and not what they are on now. This would keep staff encourage people to join and put paid to agency staff.

Reduce pen pushing staff and non essential paper pushers to help pay it.

Lastly give the consultants the power to make changes and improvements in their areas of the hospitals. They work in these places and are aware of what they need and how it should work, not a pen pusher who has no idea.

Probably wouldn’t improve some of it but go a long way to getting it back on track.

Agree with much of what you say, (reduce pen pushers, stop agency staff) but consultants would make no better job of improving the service as they have no idea of management and organisation. They are too focused on their own little world in their own department, and do not understand the bigger picture. Same goes for nurses, physios etc.
The NHS needs proper qualified experienced managers/administrators not political interference and diversity.

As for the old "pay them more, what they think they are worth" argument that is a complete farce used by politicians (mainly left wing). What are they worth? Many are not worth their pay, as we have heard from above. Or are you saying if we pay them more they will start doing the job they are now paid for ie: care about the patients and perform nursing duties with due diligence?
I know nurses earning £100,000 per year and most doctors far more, so how much do they need to earn to start caring about their patients?

Not having a dig at you Pulis, just the general argument we keep hearing.
Also, condolences to Stickywicket

Only way it would sort itself out is,

Pay the Dr’s, Qualified staff, Auxiliary nurses and other staff what they should get and not what they are on now. This would keep staff encourage people to join and put paid to agency staff.

Reduce pen pushing staff and non essential paper pushers to help pay it.

Lastly give the consultants the power to make changes and improvements in their areas of the hospitals. They work in these places and are aware of what they need and how it should work, not a pen pusher who has no idea.

Probably wouldn’t improve some of it but go a long way to getting it back on track.

Agree with much of what you say, (reduce pen pushers, stop agency staff) but consultants would make no better job of improving the service as they have no idea of management and organisation. They are too focused on their own little world in their own department, and do not understand the bigger picture. Same goes for nurses, physios etc.
The NHS needs proper qualified experienced managers/administrators not political interference and diversity.

As for the old "pay them more, what they think they are worth" argument that is a complete farce used by politicians (mainly left wing). What are they worth? Many are not worth their pay, as we have heard from above. Or are you saying if we pay them more they will start doing the job they are now paid for ie: care about the patients and perform nursing duties with due diligence?
I know nurses earning £100,000 per year and most doctors far more, so how much do they need to earn to start caring about their patients?

Not having a dig at you Pulis, just the general argument we keep hearing.
Also, condolences to Stickywicket

Bringing managers into the NHS was a Tory idea to start with because Thatcher thought they could make better decisions than the medics as they were too patient focused(Imagine that). Fast forward 40yrs and now now the managers are the big drain on the financial recourses of the NHS.Nurses are quitting faster than the new ones are coming in. The clinicians are still bogged down with non surgical duties. My surgery was cancelled because the surgeon had to attend an emergency meeting ffs.
Condolences to SW

Only way it would sort itself out is,

Pay the Dr’s, Qualified staff, Auxiliary nurses and other staff what they should get and not what they are on now. This would keep staff encourage people to join and put paid to agency staff.

Reduce pen pushing staff and non essential paper pushers to help pay it.

Lastly give the consultants the power to make changes and improvements in their areas of the hospitals. They work in these places and are aware of what they need and how it should work, not a pen pusher who has no idea.

Probably wouldn’t improve some of it but go a long way to getting it back on track.

Agree with much of what you say, (reduce pen pushers, stop agency staff) but consultants would make no better job of improving the service as they have no idea of management and organisation. They are too focused on their own little world in their own department, and do not understand the bigger picture. Same goes for nurses, physios etc.
The NHS needs proper qualified experienced managers/administrators not political interference and diversity.

As for the old "pay them more, what they think they are worth" argument that is a complete farce used by politicians (mainly left wing). What are they worth? Many are not worth their pay, as we have heard from above. Or are you saying if we pay them more they will start doing the job they are now paid for ie: care about the patients and perform nursing duties with due diligence?
I know nurses earning £100,000 per year and most doctors far more, so how much do they need to earn to start caring about their patients?

Not having a dig at you Pulis, just the general argument we keep hearing.
Also, condolences to Stickywicket

Bringing managers into the NHS was a Tory idea to start with because Thatcher thought they could make better decisions than the medics as they were too patient focused(Imagine that). Fast forward 40yrs and now now the managers are the big drain on the financial recourses of the NHS.Nurses are quitting faster than the new ones are coming in. The clinicians are still bogged down with non surgical duties. My surgery was cancelled because the surgeon had to attend an emergency meeting ffs.
Condolences to SW

If anyone worked on ward or spent time there they will know that problem is the system of care (named nurse) split into areas cubicle one two three four if nurse from cubicle one is not available nurses from other cubicles do not know anything about cubicle ones patients so care is fragmented .... simple salutation is to go back to pre Maggie's day 1980 and do away with internal market that is in place throughout
nhs ...also named nurses need to go so only one person in charge and everyone knows all the patients not just a couple.... ward staff spend more time at meetings and book keeping than looking after patients... I've seen more dead bodies than can remember and seriously you need a coping mechanism on a ward to deal with things sometimes odd humour is part of that strategy ... condolences to both parties involved though .

Only way it would sort itself out is,

Pay the Dr’s, Qualified staff, Auxiliary nurses and other staff what they should get and not what they are on now. This would keep staff encourage people to join and put paid to agency staff.

Reduce pen pushing staff and non essential paper pushers to help pay it.

Lastly give the consultants the power to make changes and improvements in their areas of the hospitals. They work in these places and are aware of what they need and how it should work, not a pen pusher who has no idea.

Probably wouldn’t improve some of it but go a long way to getting it back on track.

Agree with much of what you say, (reduce pen pushers, stop agency staff) but consultants would make no better job of improving the service as they have no idea of management and organisation. They are too focused on their own little world in their own department, and do not understand the bigger picture. Same goes for nurses, physios etc.
The NHS needs proper qualified experienced managers/administrators not political interference and diversity.

As for the old "pay them more, what they think they are worth" argument that is a complete farce used by politicians (mainly left wing). What are they worth? Many are not worth their pay, as we have heard from above. Or are you saying if we pay them more they will start doing the job they are now paid for ie: care about the patients and perform nursing duties with due diligence?
I know nurses earning £100,000 per year and most doctors far more, so how much do they need to earn to start caring about their patients?

Not having a dig at you Pulis, just the general argument we keep hearing.
Also, condolences to Stickywicket

No offence taken at all we are just discussing the problems and we all have opinions.

I worked in a Hospital for 6 yrs and am well aware of the bureaucracy and waste that’s involved and unfortunately as they say the wheel is broken and no one knows how to fix it. Lack of staff being the major problem and when you walk past the paper pushers offices the chairs are full!

I had the misfortune to stay at the Grange earlier this year under the supervision of 4 consultants! I was surprised to see new building work going up so soon after it’s opening. One consultant told me that architect/planners had not discussed with any of them about what they needed and how to help with putting in the correct facilities before building etc. The new 2 storey addition was going to be a needed addition.

That’s why I said consultants needed to be in the loop!

During the pandemic/lockdown if I’m right numerous consultants publicly stated they got more done without all the paper pushers than they ever did.

However my thoughts go out to anyone who has had a terrible experience anywhere in the NHS.

Not Wales NHS or Drakefords fault. The population has increased by 11 million in 30 years, and life expectancy increased greatly. Add a much broader range of treatments available, then this system will struggle.
If politicians could fix I’m sure they would, but it’s down to finances ultimately.

It's not money - it's the way money is spent. I worked for NHS England. NHS England is miles ahead of Wales in terms of equipment, IT systems, processes etc.

Health is a 100% devolved power to the Assembly they can do whatever they want (same with education). But as always dont want to take any responsibility and try to tag it back on Westminster.

Out of those devolved powers - Education we are at the bottom of the pisa compared to the home nations. And the health levels - speak for themselves - worst cancer wait times in the UK. Did you know for the Cardiff and Vale Health board - we only have 9 "blue light" ambulances and 2 paramedic first responders. Those ambulances are continually parked up out the Heath.

It also doesnt help when in Wales - the Welsh NHS pays a nurse circa 27-32k a year - whereas a diversity officers job is advertised at 45k.

Or for example - when there was an office move at the heath - the porters refused to move the equipment - as it meant going outside from one building to another building - and that was not allowed. So an external removal company was required - charging twice the price.

My Father passed away a week ago after having a Transfusion and, his Heart was not strong enough to pump the blood. We anaged to keep him alive and get him to Prince Charles. He took his final breath 20 hours later in Resus with us all around him. When he was taken to the Morgue, a Nigerian Nurse told us that he wouldn't be allowed to be cremated because he had a Pacemaker fitted. Now, I'm all for foreign nurses working for NHS Wales, because it is severely under staffed, but Cwm Taf HB should be issuing Staff guidance on stuff like this to their Employees. My Mother was livid!! Telling her that he will be cremated. She apologised later saying no guidance is given as to this kind of thing. Shocking what really goes on in our Hospitals.

To be fair, she was nearly right. If your deceased relative has a pacemaker fitted, then inform your funeral director who will remove it before cremation - it would probably cause an explosion if incinerated. ( I have worked in a funeral directors).

In the news again today for poor care ect get impression reading story when it was planned it wasnt planned big enough (bit like motorway use) bearing in mind it was replacing several hospitals in blaenau gwent. This should tell WG something about putting 2 into 1 when comes to hospitals but it wont I suspect.

Apparently there's a huge amount of vacancies in the NHS Sounds like theres not the people out there to take on these very stressful and demanding jobs.

Apparently there's a huge amount of vacancies in the NHS Sounds like theres not the people out there to take on these very stressful and demanding jobs.

A lot of NHS staff quit and now get 50% more for agency work... that's always been case and now its twice as bad .... the whole nhs is broken and needs a dramatic rethink to put it right but no confidence in WG to put it right? When you hear them speak you get we've put in x amount of millions into this and that
but what they dont say is how they will sort it out... throwing money at it is not the way forward when its wasted to the extent it is.... the Grange is classic example opened 2yrs ago had problems before it opened was opened before finished and built with not enough capacity considering it replaced several hospitals? Now want to expand it to help A&E problems... As I said two into one doesnt go but that's what they attempted to do and wasted millions in doing so.

First of all as others have said, deepest condolences to SW on your loss.


The one elephant in the room here not being discussed is our net migration is out of control and has been for close to two decades now. The LTIM estimate for 2020 net migration is 370K which is not much less tan the population of Bristol. The RAPID (which doesn't include kids) is over 340K which is more or less than the population of Cardiff.(1)

The government statistics (2) suggest the figure is closer to 240K so slightly bigger than the population of Swansea.

(1) https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... om-the-uk/

(2) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... 0%20people.

I agree with a lot of the suggestions in this thread about how the NHS could be better run - especially cutting dead wood management that dates back to Thatcher and properly balancing pay - a diversity officer earning 18K a year more than a nurse is the clearest sign ever that we have lost all sense of priorities in society.

However, before we are to find anyway forward we first have to face up to the fact that the country is in deep, deep trouble.

We have a housing crisis, we have a crumbling NHS, we have a cost of living crisis, we have two income families having to rely on food banks for christ sake.

Regardless of who is in charge and what colour tie they are wearing, regardless of how we try and tackle the problem - through a capitalist leaning or socialist leaning approach - we cannot and will not get ourselves out of this until we effectively put a moratorium on all immigration except for those coming into the country with the essential skills we need (doctors, nurses, builders etc) and even then this needs to be on a limited time visa while we put efforts into educating home grown replacements.

We need to stop thinking we are a global powerhouse, we are not.

We are a rapidly failing nation whose citizens are hurting while we send £2.3Billion to the Ukraine and promise of the same next year.

We cannot help the world when our own people are dying because of under-trained/over-worked health care staff. We should not be helping the citizens of other nations (no matter how great their plight) when our elderly are being forced to choose between food and warmth as their energy costs soar due to terrible mismanagement and policy that allows gross corporate profiteering in a time of crisis.

Just to put it into context there are 14.5 million people in the UK living below the poverty line.

The money we are sending to Ukraine would cover all of their winter energy bills and while this will almost certainly be an unpopular view, even though my sympathy goes to the people of Ukraine, our government's responsibility should be to the people of this country before anyone else.

As a country we need to get our own house in order before we even think of trying to help the rest of the world.

Finally, this issue should be neither a right-wing or left-wing talking point by the way - even though it is almost always presented as a right wing position - for reference socialist Cuba has a very nationalist policy which forbids emigration for non-Cuban citizens and very strict citizenship requirements.

But truly this shouldn't be a politicised discussion at this point. It is a matter of simple pragmatic fact.

Our country is on the precipice of falling apart, and we will never ever fix it while we are absorbing hundreds of thousands of people each year.

First of all as others have said, deepest condolences to SW on your loss.


The one elephant in the room here not being discussed is our net migration is out of control and has been for close to two decades now. The LTIM estimate for 2020 net migration is 370K which is not much less tan the population of Bristol. The RAPID (which doesn't include kids) is over 340K which is more or less than the population of Cardiff.(1)

The government statistics (2) suggest the figure is closer to 240K so slightly bigger than the population of Swansea.

(1) https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... om-the-uk/

(2) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... 0%20people.

I agree with a lot of the suggestions in this thread about how the NHS could be better run - especially cutting dead wood management that dates back to Thatcher and properly balancing pay - a diversity officer earning 18K a year more than a nurse is the clearest sign ever that we have lost all sense of priorities in society.

However, before we are to find anyway forward we first have to face up to the fact that the country is in deep, deep trouble.

We have a housing crisis, we have a crumbling NHS, we have a cost of living crisis, we have two income families having to rely on food banks for christ sake.

Regardless of who is in charge and what colour tie they are wearing, regardless of how we try and tackle the problem - through a capitalist leaning or socialist leaning approach - we cannot and will not get ourselves out of this until we effectively put a moratorium on all immigration except for those coming into the country with the essential skills we need (doctors, nurses, builders etc) and even then this needs to be on a limited time visa while we put efforts into educating home grown replacements.

We need to stop thinking we are a global powerhouse, we are not.

We are a rapidly failing nation whose citizens are hurting while we send £2.3Billion to the Ukraine and promise of the same next year.

We cannot help the world when our own people are dying because of under-trained/over-worked health care staff. We should not be helping the citizens of other nations (no matter how great their plight) when our elderly are being forced to choose between food and warmth as their energy costs soar due to terrible mismanagement and policy that allows gross corporate profiteering in a time of crisis.

Just to put it into context there are 14.5 million people in the UK living below the poverty line.

The money we are sending to Ukraine would cover all of their winter energy bills and while this will almost certainly be an unpopular view, even though my sympathy goes to the people of Ukraine, our government's responsibility should be to the people of this country before anyone else.

As a country we need to get our own house in order before we even think of trying to help the rest of the world.

Finally, this issue should be neither a right-wing or left-wing talking point by the way - even though it is almost always presented as a right wing position - for reference socialist Cuba has a very nationalist policy which forbids emigration for non-Cuban citizens and very strict citizenship requirements.

But truly this shouldn't be a politicised discussion at this point. It is a matter of simple pragmatic fact.

Our country is on the precipice of falling apart, and we will never ever fix it while we are absorbing hundreds of thousands of people each year.

Very good write up... partially agree about Ukraine but migrants costing country far in excess of Ukraine.. Albanians should ne put straight back on plane home no need to be hete if dort then out migrant figures will shrink enormously... is there any hope of sorting out nhs when get idiots calling 999 for non medical condition or going to A&E for trivial stuff... gps need to also get act together as lots of A&E visits can be done elsewhere.

First of all as others have said, deepest condolences to SW on your loss.


The one elephant in the room here not being discussed is our net migration is out of control and has been for close to two decades now. The LTIM estimate for 2020 net migration is 370K which is not much less tan the population of Bristol. The RAPID (which doesn't include kids) is over 340K which is more or less than the population of Cardiff.(1)

The government statistics (2) suggest the figure is closer to 240K so slightly bigger than the population of Swansea.

(1) https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... om-the-uk/

(2) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... 0%20people.

I agree with a lot of the suggestions in this thread about how the NHS could be better run - especially cutting dead wood management that dates back to Thatcher and properly balancing pay - a diversity officer earning 18K a year more than a nurse is the clearest sign ever that we have lost all sense of priorities in society.

However, before we are to find anyway forward we first have to face up to the fact that the country is in deep, deep trouble.

We have a housing crisis, we have a crumbling NHS, we have a cost of living crisis, we have two income families having to rely on food banks for christ sake.

Regardless of who is in charge and what colour tie they are wearing, regardless of how we try and tackle the problem - through a capitalist leaning or socialist leaning approach - we cannot and will not get ourselves out of this until we effectively put a moratorium on all immigration except for those coming into the country with the essential skills we need (doctors, nurses, builders etc) and even then this needs to be on a limited time visa while we put efforts into educating home grown replacements.

We need to stop thinking we are a global powerhouse, we are not.

We are a rapidly failing nation whose citizens are hurting while we send £2.3Billion to the Ukraine and promise of the same next year.

We cannot help the world when our own people are dying because of under-trained/over-worked health care staff. We should not be helping the citizens of other nations (no matter how great their plight) when our elderly are being forced to choose between food and warmth as their energy costs soar due to terrible mismanagement and policy that allows gross corporate profiteering in a time of crisis.

Just to put it into context there are 14.5 million people in the UK living below the poverty line.

The money we are sending to Ukraine would cover all of their winter energy bills and while this will almost certainly be an unpopular view, even though my sympathy goes to the people of Ukraine, our government's responsibility should be to the people of this country before anyone else.

As a country we need to get our own house in order before we even think of trying to help the rest of the world.

Finally, this issue should be neither a right-wing or left-wing talking point by the way - even though it is almost always presented as a right wing position - for reference socialist Cuba has a very nationalist policy which forbids emigration for non-Cuban citizens and very strict citizenship requirements.


But truly this shouldn't be a politicised discussion at this point. It is a matter of simple pragmatic fact.

Our country is on the precipice of falling apart, and we will never ever fix it while we are absorbing hundreds of thousands of people each year.

Posted in the middle of the game.That taks the biscuit.


Very good write up... partially agree about Ukraine but migrants costing country far in excess of Ukraine.. Albanians should ne put straight back on plane home no need to be hete if dort then out migrant figures will shrink enormously... is there any hope of sorting out nhs when get idiots calling 999 for non medical condition or going to A&E for trivial stuff... gps need to also get act together as lots of A&E visits can be done elsewhere.

First of all as others have said, deepest condolences to SW on your loss.


The one elephant in the room here not being discussed is our net migration is out of control and has been for close to two decades now. The LTIM estimate for 2020 net migration is 370K which is not much less tan the population of Bristol. The RAPID (which doesn't include kids) is over 340K which is more or less than the population of Cardiff.(1)

The government statistics (2) suggest the figure is closer to 240K so slightly bigger than the population of Swansea.

(1) https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... om-the-uk/

(2) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... 0%20people.

I agree with a lot of the suggestions in this thread about how the NHS could be better run - especially cutting dead wood management that dates back to Thatcher and properly balancing pay - a diversity officer earning 18K a year more than a nurse is the clearest sign ever that we have lost all sense of priorities in society.

However, before we are to find anyway forward we first have to face up to the fact that the country is in deep, deep trouble.

We have a housing crisis, we have a crumbling NHS, we have a cost of living crisis, we have two income families having to rely on food banks for christ sake.

Regardless of who is in charge and what colour tie they are wearing, regardless of how we try and tackle the problem - through a capitalist leaning or socialist leaning approach - we cannot and will not get ourselves out of this until we effectively put a moratorium on all immigration except for those coming into the country with the essential skills we need (doctors, nurses, builders etc) and even then this needs to be on a limited time visa while we put efforts into educating home grown replacements.

We need to stop thinking we are a global powerhouse, we are not.

We are a rapidly failing nation whose citizens are hurting while we send £2.3Billion to the Ukraine and promise of the same next year.

We cannot help the world when our own people are dying because of under-trained/over-worked health care staff. We should not be helping the citizens of other nations (no matter how great their plight) when our elderly are being forced to choose between food and warmth as their energy costs soar due to terrible mismanagement and policy that allows gross corporate profiteering in a time of crisis.

Just to put it into context there are 14.5 million people in the UK living below the poverty line.

The money we are sending to Ukraine would cover all of their winter energy bills and while this will almost certainly be an unpopular view, even though my sympathy goes to the people of Ukraine, our government's responsibility should be to the people of this country before anyone else.

As a country we need to get our own house in order before we even think of trying to help the rest of the world.

Finally, this issue should be neither a right-wing or left-wing talking point by the way - even though it is almost always presented as a right wing position - for reference socialist Cuba has a very nationalist policy which forbids emigration for non-Cuban citizens and very strict citizenship requirements.


But truly this shouldn't be a politicised discussion at this point. It is a matter of simple pragmatic fact.

Our country is on the precipice of falling apart, and we will never ever fix it while we are absorbing hundreds of thousands of people each year.

Posted in the middle of the game.That taks the biscuit.


Very good write up... partially agree about Ukraine but migrants costing country far in excess of Ukraine.. Albanians should ne put straight back on plane home no need to be hete if dort then out migrant figures will shrink enormously... is there any hope of sorting out nhs when get idiots calling 999 for non medical condition or going to A&E for trivial stuff... gps need to also get act together as lots of A&E visits can be done elsewhere.

Posted in the middle of the game.That taks the biscuit. :bluescarf

Yes unfortunately I needed some food so bit late going back to my seat after halftime....