SALA MONEY - AVAILABILITY : As it stands , and as an

SALA MONEY - AVAILABILITY : As it stands , and as an educated guess , the Sala issue has cost us at least £20 million.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=204226


This amount I reached by adding :


(1) the reported £15million fee


(2) the legal costs of the FIFA hearing (ours , Nantes & FIFA’s) .


(3) the legal costs of the CAS hearing (4) the interest we have to pay Nantes for the ,now , delayed payments . I believe that most people agree with this figure …. but while we do not really know …. it is a reasonable figure to assume when talking about Sala .


Indeed the Club has set aside “in the accounts” a sum of £19 million (if I remember right as Chairman Dalman has stated this on a number of occasions ).


The question I have (which is somewhat worrying me , but not too much) , is whether this money has actually been physically set aside in a separate escrow account (or otherwise) ….. as many of us have been led to believe ?

It is very possible that this money was only an accounting book entry - but in fact has been withdrawn or used by the Club or taken by Tan towards part repayment of his loan (these are perfectly legitimate rights).


Tan is for all practical purposes owns us outright - so whether this money is in escrow or somewhere else or is actually is with Tan ….. does not really matter much …. since one way or another it is Tan’s money anyway.


My , slight concern , is if Tan indeed has to cough up £20 million , will he actually do so ….. or has he had enough of throwing money at us for the last 13 years or so and so much wasted time and time again?


Remember that , understandably , he ordered the Club and the manager to trim the budget - in a big way …… so what is his position now of possibly having to cough up £20 million ?


Personally I believe :

(A) Tan will personally fund this - if he has to .

(B) Order yet again another appeal against Nantes and the two verdicts. By doing so , he will delay the payments for a year or two ….in order to buy himself time ….. and decide what he wants to do with us (perhaps cut his losses and move on and/or change the way the Club is being run by Dalman and Choo ).



I believe that : (I) If we appeal the CAS decision we will lose - yet again ….but Tan will buy some time .


(II) If Tan decides to pay the money and sue for our losses - which may reach £200 million by the loss of Premier League by losing Sala….. then who will we sue ?

There are many candidates here , but other than Nantes - no one else has money. However , I believe that if we sue Nantes for damages we will lose because McKay’s job for Nantes was to sell Sala and that was 100% completed ! So Nantes cannot be responsible for what McKay did afterwards ….. besides it is not McKay’s responsibility in the first place to know aviation rules etc…it is that of the person who arranged the flight (he is now in jail) or Ibotsen (his estate) or the airline company ….. or whoever …. but in any case not Nantes .



Conclusions :



(1) It is not wise to appeal the CAS decision … as we will lose yet again … and we will only be delaying the inevitable and possibly incur another £4 million in legal costs (ours , Nantes and the courts).



(2) It is not advisable to sue Nantes for damages , as I believe , we will lose and and probably incur massive legal costs.


(3) Dalman’s position may be at stake - if as is rumored - he pushed Tan into this legal fight ….but also he has a number of other reasons not to continue.



(4) My opinion is to pay up , draw a line , and move on …… to whichever way Tan wants to go .



Finally , I apologize for this long long thread …… but the implications of the Sala issues are huge and detrimental to our future …… and therefore we have the right to question and express opinions.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=204226

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First thing there's no way the £20 million will be sat in an account ready to pay up. Tan will have to personally pay up. All this sueing everyone else just adds to the lawyers fees. There's nobody with any money to s ue who it wouldn't bankrupt.
Been badly advised Sala was registered with the FA so he was always our player.

This £200 million is fantasy stuff whose to say we would have stayed up anyway.

Probably the club will carry on with more pointless appeals and lawyers fees. Best to draw a line under it pay up and move on. .

On a personal note I have always treated almost all our owners with disdain and These issues don't bother me in the slightest, they change the kit, the badge, fiddle books on sale, langstone, the riddler, the kumas s the list is endless. It doesn't surprise me that this has happened as these are the sort of amateur that football attracts.
Yes you can argue that the club would be £20 million better off but probably not as the money is still in Tans bank account.

Don’t know what went wrong with my original reply. The cash has to physically be there, as shown in the accounts. If it’s been removed in any form it has to be reported as such. Otherwise it’s fraudulent accounting. Accountants, auditors and directors then liable for prosecution. I’m sure none of those mentioned would want to be done for £19m fraud.

NOW is the time to draw a line under the whole tragic incident.

We cannot simply continue to appeal every time we lose. Who's money is this costing?

This shows a business approach. In itself, one I would expect the business regime to follow. We want a football board, who could have seen the ramifications of not paying, appeals etc a long long time ago.

Very worrying times, but the Politician has promised that these funds are ringfenced so in that regard, do we have nothing to fear?


Make up your own mind.

NOW is the time to draw a line under the whole tragic incident.


Very worrying times, but the Politician has promised that these funds are ringfenced so in that regard, do we have nothing to fear?


Make up your own mind.

Totally agree just pay it and be done with it all as it will only esculate in to more millions via courts and appeals. But on the 2nd point do we really believe after being told the funds are there off the paid professional liar dalman and the club. I certainly dont

I understand the fact we need to pay nante to comply with the corrupt fifa organisation.. but for the life of me I cannot understand why we should let nante and the other parties in this tragedy get away Scott free? Those that say no garauntee that city would stayed up well 1 point is as narrow margin can get..... so on that basis people are implying sala wouldnt have altered the outcome "REALLY" why did we pay 15m for him then to make club look good...

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

Agree

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

Agree

Someone’s insurance company will have to pay up. The only people to make money from this will be the lawyers, while it’s decided who has to pay up.

It could be many years yet.

Annis, Dalman said live on the ACE Podcast during his first i believe live appearance (might be the second) that the club has put aside the money to pay the sala fee is it came to it. then on another occassion he said, if the club is forced to pay that fee the club would be dire financial problems.

my question is, if Tan is forced to pay the £20m, would that be the straw that breaks the camels back and forces him to actively seek to sell the club ?

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

Martin,

Not saying we are guilty, we are not, but EMILIANO SALA WAS A CARDIFF CITY PLAYER and that’s what this case was about.

Yes sue, those responsible, but most are worthless.

It appears we will have to pay Nantes however the responsible parties should not get away with it. In my opinion the best people to sue would be the planes owners as they must have had insurance in place any other parties would almost certainly not have the money and would simply declare themselves bankrupt.

Annis, Dalman said live on the ACE Podcast during his first i believe live appearance (might be the second) that the club has put aside the money to pay the sala fee is it came to it. then on another occassion he said, if the club is forced to pay that fee the club would be dire financial problems.

my question is, if Tan is forced to pay the £20m, would that be the straw that breaks the camels back and forces him to actively seek to sell the club ?

Dalman is like politician.

As to Tan selling, he has tried for years, but now with this outcome and if yet another appeal sadly we will struggle to sell and we are lumbered with him.

For me Dalman and Choo are the wrong men for our club.

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

Martin,

Not saying we are guilty, we are not, but EMILIANO SALA WAS A CARDIFF CITY PLAYER and that’s what this case was about.

Yes sue, those responsible, but most are worthless.

Yes he was and suing for the non-delivery of our player due to negligence is something that hasn't be put to any court yet.Be interesting if Nantes will counter sue us in a proper court of law to get what they want.I honestly think this was just a dress rehearsal. I wouldn't pay Nantes a bean just yet but like I said earlier its all guesswork at the moment and this is my two bobs worth.

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

Martin,

Not saying we are guilty, we are not, but EMILIANO SALA WAS A CARDIFF CITY PLAYER and that’s what this case was about.

Yes sue, those responsible, but most are worthless.

Yes he was and suing for the non-delivery of our player due to negligence is something that hasn't be put to any court yet.Be interesting if Nantes will counter sue us in a proper court of law to get what they want.I honestly think this was just a dress rehearsal. I wouldn't pay Nantes a bean just yet but like I said earlier its all guesswork at the moment and this is my two bobs worth.

That’s not Nantes fault Sala was not delivered, he was No longer their player.
Sala went back to France of his own accord to say goodbye and sort his dog to come over.

The person who helped Sala get a plane was actually the agent who was our player at the time, plus the same company Warnock was using.

Posters like you argued Sala was not our player and look it’s cost us so far an extra £6mill.


Not guess work, I said he was our player 2 years ago as he was registered.


Martin posters like you are one of the usual suspects that will argue for the sake of it.

Sala was a Cardiff City player and we owe the money as I said over 2 years ago.

As to suing others that’s another mate.

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

Martin,

Not saying we are guilty, we are not, but EMILIANO SALA WAS A CARDIFF CITY PLAYER and that’s what this case was about.

Yes sue, those responsible, but most are worthless.

Yes he was and suing for the non-delivery of our player due to negligence is something that hasn't be put to any court yet.Be interesting if Nantes will counter sue us in a proper court of law to get what they want.I honestly think this was just a dress rehearsal. I wouldn't pay Nantes a bean just yet but like I said earlier its all guesswork at the moment and this is my two bobs worth.

That’s not Nantes fault Sala was not delivered, he was No longer their player.
Sala went back to France of his own accord to say goodbye and sort his dog to come over.

The person who helped Sala get a plane was actually the agent who was our player at the time, plus the same company Warnock was using.

Posters like you argued Sala was not our player and look it’s cost us so far an extra £6mill.


Not guess work, I said he was our player 2 years ago as he was registered.




Martin posters like you are one of the usual suspects that will argue for the sake of it.

Sala was a Cardiff City player and we owe the money as I said over 2 years ago.

As to suing others that’s another mate.

I've got no problem with your opinion at all but draw the line at you misquoting me.

I HAVE NEVER f*cking EVER SAID SALA WASN'T OUR PLAYER SO YOU SHOULD EITHER PROOVE IT OR BE MAN ENOUGH TO TAKE IT BACK.

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

Martin,

Not saying we are guilty, we are not, but EMILIANO SALA WAS A CARDIFF CITY PLAYER and that’s what this case was about.

Yes sue, those responsible, but most are worthless.

Yes he was and suing for the non-delivery of our player due to negligence is something that hasn't be put to any court yet.Be interesting if Nantes will counter sue us in a proper court of law to get what they want.I honestly think this was just a dress rehearsal. I wouldn't pay Nantes a bean just yet but like I said earlier its all guesswork at the moment and this is my two bobs worth.

That’s not Nantes fault Sala was not delivered, he was No longer their player.
Sala went back to France of his own accord to say goodbye and sort his dog to come over.

The person who helped Sala get a plane was actually the agent who was our player at the time, plus the same company Warnock was using.

Posters like you argued Sala was not our player and look it’s cost us so far an extra £6mill.


Not guess work, I said he was our player 2 years ago as he was registered.




Martin posters like you are one of the usual suspects that will argue for the sake of it.

Sala was a Cardiff City player and we owe the money as I said over 2 years ago.

As to suing others that’s another mate.

I've got no problem with your opinion at all but draw the line at you misquoting me.

I HAVE NEVER f*cking EVER SAID SALA WASN'T OUR PLAYER SO YOU SHOULD EITHER PROOVE IT OR BE MAN ENOUGH TO TAKE IT BACK.

But back then you argued with me when I said we were wrong to not pay as Sala was our player.

And your still arguing now if you read.

We owe the money end off and now costs and interest.

So are you admitting Sala was our player ??

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

I agree with you yet again, Gary...

I spoke to Annis at length and he made some very pertinent points on a number of things, some of which are mentioned (and later debated) elsewhere in this thread

What can no longer be disputed by anyone without an agenda is that Emiliano Sala was our player; two panels have made judgement on that, armed with differing facts, remits and arguments in each hearing

That is done, and now our club (nee Tan, who was not responsible for the original tragedy or its immediate aftermath) need to sort it out in a speedy, cost efficient manner before the costs spiral further than the estimated £20m+ figure to date

Whether that money is genuinely 'put aside' or just 'figures on the books' is important to the short/medium future of the club but ultimately is the responsibility of Tan as club owner

These are not good times for Cardiff City FC and we seem to have been permanently embroiled in one legal challenge or another since Dave Jones was the first to do it

To take on anyone else involved with the Sala teagedy (pilot, provider, air company, Nantes, McKay, etc. may be an option; but at what financial cost rather than gain when the dust finally settles?

It has to stop! It's effecting the club, its standing and its future massively and I know more than one knowledgeable Bluebird observer who believe we are at a crossroads that currently isn't looking too bright unless things are quickly sorted out...

All very nice and best guesswork but it is worth suing as in my view/opinion they did not pay due care and attention when delivering our player to us. The outcome may well be different in a proper court of law. The loss of life was tragic but if there is blame to be laid apon someone/company/person then its worth exploring and the legalities may take years to sort. To pay up now would be an admission of liability and guilt and theres no way CCFC was responsible for that poor lads death. All this of course is conjecture on my part but fits in well with the other guesses on this thread.

Martin,

Not saying we are guilty, we are not, but EMILIANO SALA WAS A CARDIFF CITY PLAYER and that’s what this case was about.

Yes sue, those responsible, but most are worthless.

Yes he was and suing for the non-delivery of our player due to negligence is something that hasn't be put to any court yet.Be interesting if Nantes will counter sue us in a proper court of law to get what they want.I honestly think this was just a dress rehearsal. I wouldn't pay Nantes a bean just yet but like I said earlier its all guesswork at the moment and this is my two bobs worth.

That’s not Nantes fault Sala was not delivered, he was No longer their player.
Sala went back to France of his own accord to say goodbye and sort his dog to come over.

The person who helped Sala get a plane was actually the agent who was our player at the time, plus the same company Warnock was using.

Posters like you argued Sala was not our player and look it’s cost us so far an extra £6mill.


Not guess work, I said he was our player 2 years ago as he was registered.




Martin posters like you are one of the usual suspects that will argue for the sake of it.

Sala was a Cardiff City player and we owe the money as I said over 2 years ago.

As to suing others that’s another mate.

I've got no problem with your opinion at all but draw the line at you misquoting me.

I HAVE NEVER f*cking EVER SAID SALA WASN'T OUR PLAYER SO YOU SHOULD EITHER PROOVE IT OR BE MAN ENOUGH TO TAKE IT BACK.

This is like a jigsaw with a few important pieces missing.

We are a Welsh club playing in the English system. Sala was registered with the Welsh FA BUT not the English FA of which we were playing in their Premier. So which fact should the Court look at. They decided on the Welsh fact and that is a reason to appeal. Personally I think its a weak appeal and we should just accept the fact we lost.

Honestly cannot see the point of being in FAW anymore.

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

I agree with you yet again, Gary...

I spoke to Annis at length and he made some very pertinent points on a number of things, some of which are mentioned (and later debated) elsewhere in this thread

What can no longer be disputed by anyone without an agenda is that Emiliano Sala was our player; two panels have made judgement on that, armed with differing facts, remits and arguments in each hearing

That is done, and now our club (nee Tan, who was not responsible for the original tragedy or its immediate aftermath) need to sort it out in a speedy, cost efficient manner before the costs spiral further than the estimated £20m+ figure to date

Whether that money is genuinely 'put aside' or just 'figures on the books' is important to the short/medium future of the club but ultimately is the responsibility of Tan as club owner

These are not good times for Cardiff City FC and we seem to have been permanently embroiled in one legal challenge or another since Dave Jones was the first to do it

To take on anyone else involved with the Sala teagedy (pilot, provider, air company, Nantes, McKay, etc. may be an option; but at what financial cost rather than gain when the dust finally settles?

It has to stop! It's effecting the club, its standing and its future massively and I know more than one knowledgeable Bluebird observer who believe we are at a crossroads that currently isn't looking too bright unless things are quickly sorted out...

Can someone enlighten me on where these huge costs being thrown about come from as I cannot find figures to match. I see we have to pay Nantes £6m as 1st installment but no other figures of £20m + or am I missing something.

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

I agree with you yet again, Gary...

I spoke to Annis at length and he made some very pertinent points on a number of things, some of which are mentioned (and later debated) elsewhere in this thread

What can no longer be disputed by anyone without an agenda is that Emiliano Sala was our player; two panels have made judgement on that, armed with differing facts, remits and arguments in each hearing

That is done, and now our club (nee Tan, who was not responsible for the original tragedy or its immediate aftermath) need to sort it out in a speedy, cost efficient manner before the costs spiral further than the estimated £20m+ figure to date

Whether that money is genuinely 'put aside' or just 'figures on the books' is important to the short/medium future of the club but ultimately is the responsibility of Tan as club owner

These are not good times for Cardiff City FC and we seem to have been permanently embroiled in one legal challenge or another since Dave Jones was the first to do it

To take on anyone else involved with the Sala teagedy (pilot, provider, air company, Nantes, McKay, etc. may be an option; but at what financial cost rather than gain when the dust finally settles?

It has to stop! It's effecting the club, its standing and its future massively and I know more than one knowledgeable Bluebird observer who believe we are at a crossroads that currently isn't looking too bright unless things are quickly sorted out...

Can someone enlighten me on where these huge costs being thrown about come from as I cannot find figures to match. I see we have to pay Nantes £6m as 1st installment but no other figures of £20m + or am I missing something.

That’s the first instalment, plus interest , plus court costs Con both sides we had to pay , plus we still have to pay very soon more of the money.

I will state strongly costs are about £6mill




This amount I reached by adding :


(1) the reported £15million fee


(2) the legal costs of the FIFA hearing (ours , Nantes & FIFA’s) .


(3) the legal costs of the CAS hearing (4) the interest we have to pay Nantes for the ,now , delayed payments . I believe that most people agree with this figure …. but while we do not really know …. it is a reasonable figure to assume when talking about Sala .

Thanks Annis, think I will leave it to the legal eagles before I give myself a headache, lot more twists and turns methinks.

Thanks Annis, think I will leave it to the legal eagles before I give myself a headache, lot more twists and turns methinks.

Yes Jules there is regarding who is responsible.

But as to who Sala belonged to was 100% Cardiff City.

I understand the fact we need to pay nante to comply with the corrupt fifa organisation.. but for the life of me I cannot understand why we should let nante and the other parties in this tragedy get away Scott free? Those that say no garauntee that city would stayed up well 1 point is as narrow margin can get..... so on that basis people are implying sala wouldnt have altered the outcome "REALLY" why did we pay 15m for him then to make club look good...

We were not in the bottom 3 when MM - Was sacked Some of our so called " fans " would remember that
As for paying £15 M - To look good - We have not come out of this looking Good - Embarrassing

In my opinion we need to pay the first instalment without delay as I believe failing to do so will incur the secondary FIFA punishment of a transfer ban covering 3 transfer windows.

Pay up and sue Nantes and their agents for everything they can.

Spot on Gary

Surely the 15 mil transfer fee had conditions attached, like how many goals he scored, how many appearances, if we stayed up etc etc
Sala (obviously) couldnt fulfill that - so that part of the contract is null and void.

The persons who arranged that flight have stopped us from employing Sala.

The persons that illegally allowed that flight to knowingly take place

The insurance company that insured that plane

There are countless others that have effectively lost us money due to their actions - and if I was the club or Tan I would go after them all in a very agressive manner.

I agree that we shouldn’t bother appealing the CAS.

However, it would be foolhardy not to initiate litigation against the others liable for the accident.

Easy to just say pay up and draw a line when it’s not your money !