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FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:23 am

The full story of Cardiff City's court case against Nantes over Emiliano Sala which can now be told for the first time
By Paul Abbandonato

Cardiff City are in dispute with Nantes over who is responsible for the £15m Sala transfer fee

The Bluebirds are adamant they should not be held responsible for the £15million transfer fee.

Details of Cardiff's arguments could not be fully revealed while the Sala inquest was taking place.

But with the inquest jury having delivered its verdict on the Sala tragedy, some of the issues Cardiff are raising and the likely next steps can now be reported.

Cardiff have already presented their case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland, where independent judges will make a decision on the hugely sensitive matter.

That Lausanne hearing was held in private and as such full details are not available at this stage. CAS will make their findings public in due course, probably at some point this summer.

But our understanding of the matter, from speaking to individuals closely involved, is that Cardiff's case centres largely around two strands.

1: Is the transfer fee due?

2: Were Nantes liable in any way for the accident?


The involvement of agent Willie McKay, and any work he may have done for the French club, is crucial as far as the Bluebirds are concerned.


The background

FIFA originally ordered Cardiff to pay the first instalment of the £15m transfer fee agreed with Nantes to buy the Argentine striker during the 2018-19 Premier League campaign under Neil Warnock.

Cardiff's then manager was firmly of the belief Sala would score the goals needed to keep the Bluebirds in the top flight. Cardiff appealed FIFA's decision to a higher court and the case was heard over two days in Lausanne, before the Sala inquest had been concluded in Bournemouth.

Some critics have always argued Sala was a Cardiff player and they should simply pay up, but it is nowhere near as simple as that. Nothing demonstrates the complexity of the issue more than the fact that Cardiff have had 16 lawyers working for them on the case, Nantes 18.

Muddying the waters further is the fact that the case involves English, French and Swiss laws, with potentially different interpretations. Hence the army of lawyers.


Whose player was Sala?

This is the key to everything - and the first strand of Cardiff's case.

They had somewhat hastily announced Sala as their signing on a Saturday night, partly to mitigate against a 3-0 defeat to Newcastle a couple of hours earlier and give the fans something to cheer about. However, it should be emphasised Cardiff did state unequivocally that the transfer was subject to the usual clearance from the football authorities.

For a transfer to be concluded, a number of conditions need to be met. One of those is the International Transfer Certificate. As a regulated club, Cardiff would require that clearance to be given by the Football Association of Wales.

Our understanding is that certificate had been granted by the FAW by the time of the Sala tragedy at the beginning of the following week. It is thought to be under that regulation being fulfilled that FIFA sided with Nantes at their original hearing into the matter, the ruling the Bluebirds are asking CAS to overturn.

However, we understand there were two other conditions to the transfer which Cardiff maintain had not been completed and thus they argue Sala was still officially a Nantes player at the time of the accident.

One centred around his signing on fee and registration to play in the Premier League. Cardiff contend this paperwork had not been completed correctly and Sala needed to sign new forms upon his arrival back in the UK. Without signing those forms, he was not eligible for Premier League football.

The new forms, of course, were never signed. Tragically.

Cardiff also contend that under French law, which is quite specific on these matters, Sala's contract with Nantes had not been terminated. This is important because FIFA rules dictate you cannot be employed by two clubs.

These are two technical issues, but nonetheless significant ones as far as Cardiff are concerned. They argue strongly that at the time of the accident, Sala was still registered with Nantes because two of the key conditions set out to complete a transfer from one club to another had not been finalised.

FIFA decide on football matters, but Cardiff want CAS to adjudicate on the legal side of the whole issue, with their claim French law should hold sway here.

Nantes, of course, deny this. Hence the stand-off.


If things go against Cardiff

If CAS back FIFA's decision and rule in favour of Nantes, we understand it is unlikely to be the end of the matter.

Strand two of Cardiff's case centres around the possibility of suing Nantes for damages and whether CAS have the power to adjudicate on that. Cardiff say yes, Nantes say no.

Evidence which came out at the inquest could be used as part of any future claim. Cardiff could also opt to sue in the French courts.

It is unclear what sum of money we are talking about here. However, Cardiff were of the belief that Sala's goals would have kept them in the Premier League that year, with the multi-millions that would have brought.

Cardiff finished 18th out of 20 in the table, just two points behind Brighton who stayed up. Key goals from Sala at key times might have made the difference. However, it could prove a hard argument to make as there are no guarantees as to what may have happened.

Nonetheless, the Bluebirds hierarchy feel strongly on the whole matter and owner Vincent Tan seems certain to up the stakes further if necessary to ensure what he sees as getting justice for Cardiff City.

The issue of how the doomed flight was arranged would be central to everything.

There are also thought to be issues over insurance because Sala was not officially a Cardiff player at the time.


The men sitting in judgement and next step

A 3-man arbitration panel have heard the CAS case. It is headed up by Professor Ulrich Hass, a 58-year-old sport law specialist who has previously adjudicated on controversial issues arising from the Olympics and Formula One.

A provision of £21m was mentioned in previous Cardiff City accounts to cover the Sala costs, but with the club also emphasising they didn't think it would be payable. There is a difference, however, between that sum being on the balance sheet for technical and governance purposes and Tan actually needing to suddenly find the money.

If CAS order Cardiff to pay the transfer fee, the Bluebirds would need to arrange an instalments package.

But, as we say, there is a significant second strand to this which would involve pursuing further action through the French courts.

If CAS rule in Cardiff's favour, they could still opt to explore strand two of their case with a damages claim

The likelihood, however, is that they would let the matter rest.
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Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:26 am

Abbandonato at his very best. :lol: :lol:

At the time of the announcement by the club the statement made was "Subject to International Clearance" and not "Usual clearance from the football authorities. International clearance comes in the form of an International Transfer Certificate.

He claims it is Walesonline understanding that the Welsh FA had "Granted" the ITC by the time of the tragic accident in which ES died. NONSENSE because FIFA regulations dictate that the National Association the player is leaving are responsible for issuing the ITC after receiving a request from the National Association of the club the player is moving to.

The National Association with "Governance" over Cardiff City is The FA and they would have been processing this transfer and having found an error in the transfer contract had not completed the transfer. FIFA stated in their decision on this transfer that the Welsh FA had confirmed they had received the ITC from the French FA.

This is a complex matter clearly indicated by the numbers of Lawyers involved and God alone knows which way the CAS will go with this. But ONLY Abbandonato could claim this represents the FULL STORY.




:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:37 am

castleblue wrote:Abbandonato at his very best. :lol: :lol:

At the time of the announcement by the club the statement made was "Subject to International Clearance" and not "Usual clearance from the football authorities. International clearance comes in the form of an International Transfer Certificate.

He claims it is Walesonline understanding that the Welsh FA had "Granted" the ITC by the time of the tragic accident in which ES died. NONSENSE because FIFA regulations dictate that the National Association the player is leaving are responsible for issuing the ITC after receiving a request from the National Association of the club the player is moving to.

The National Association with "Governance" over Cardiff City is The FA and they would have been processing this transfer and having found an error in the transfer contract had not completed the transfer. FIFA stated in their decision on this transfer that the Welsh FA had confirmed they had received the ITC from the French FA.

This is a complex matter clearly indicated by the numbers of Lawyers involved and God alone knows which way the CAS will go with this. But ONLY Abbandonato could claim this represents the FULL STORY.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:


Great post and throws it back at him, Garry... :clap:

It is well known that a number of 'journos' are now writing what they are told to by a certain element at the club and this may well be one such instance?

The 'ruling' is going to be intriguing, as the overall 'story' appears to cast doubt on the completion of the transfer but will that be the conclusion of CAS under any of the three juristrictions (French, Swiss and UK) where the specific elements involved are set in Law

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:07 am

Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:18 am

castleblue wrote:Abbandonato at his very best. :lol: :lol:

At the time of the announcement by the club the statement made was "Subject to International Clearance" and not "Usual clearance from the football authorities. International clearance comes in the form of an International Transfer Certificate.

He claims it is Walesonline understanding that the Welsh FA had "Granted" the ITC by the time of the tragic accident in which ES died. NONSENSE because FIFA regulations dictate that the National Association the player is leaving are responsible for issuing the ITC after receiving a request from the National Association of the club the player is moving to.

The National Association with "Governance" over Cardiff City is The FA and they would have been processing this transfer and having found an error in the transfer contract had not completed the transfer. FIFA stated in their decision on this transfer that the Welsh FA had confirmed they had received the ITC from the French FA.

This is a complex matter clearly indicated by the numbers of Lawyers involved and God alone knows which way the CAS will go with this. But ONLY Abbandonato could claim this represents the FULL STORY.




:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:







:lol: :lol:


Gary,

That’s how I see Abbadanatto, he has Dalman pulling his strings.


I will always state this, we were the innocent party, the agents were the guilty ones.

As to who’s player then the decision looks like being very soon.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:45 am

JJ1927 wrote:Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.


Stop talking common sense.

Cardiff pay half, Nante settle for half.

Or Nante get it all and later get sued for twice as much.

The 50% works for both clubs when you take into account future legal fees.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:52 pm

Wayne S wrote:
JJ1927 wrote:Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.


Stop talking common sense.

Cardiff pay half, Nante settle for half.

Or Nante get it all and later get sued for twice as much.

The 50% works for both clubs when you take into account future legal fees.

I dread to think what the legal fees are already, let alone if we lose and go after Nantes for damages.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:56 pm

JJ1927 wrote:Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.

FC Nantes REFUSED all approaches from Cardiff City FC to discuss the situation face-to-face

Had they done so, it is believed this would have been settled way before now

The intransigence is on the French side and I believe our club just want a 'principled' outcome

On face value, the Bluebirds decision to take this situation to FIFA and then CAS looks a sound one, when certain elements (now quiet) slated them for doing so

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:39 pm

Sven wrote:
castleblue wrote:Abbandonato at his very best. :lol: :lol:

At the time of the announcement by the club the statement made was "Subject to International Clearance" and not "Usual clearance from the football authorities. International clearance comes in the form of an International Transfer Certificate.

He claims it is Walesonline understanding that the Welsh FA had "Granted" the ITC by the time of the tragic accident in which ES died. NONSENSE because FIFA regulations dictate that the National Association the player is leaving are responsible for issuing the ITC after receiving a request from the National Association of the club the player is moving to.

The National Association with "Governance" over Cardiff City is The FA and they would have been processing this transfer and having found an error in the transfer contract had not completed the transfer. FIFA stated in their decision on this transfer that the Welsh FA had confirmed they had received the ITC from the French FA.

This is a complex matter clearly indicated by the numbers of Lawyers involved and God alone knows which way the CAS will go with this. But ONLY Abbandonato could claim this represents the FULL STORY.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:


Great post and throws it back at him, Garry... :clap:

It is well known that a number of 'journos' are now writing what they are told to by a certain element at the club and this may well be one such instance?

The 'ruling' is going to be intriguing, as the overall 'story' appears to cast doubt on the completion of the transfer but will that be the conclusion of CAS under any of the three juristrictions (French, Swiss and UK) where the specific elements involved are set in Law


Chris it's typical Abbandonato claiming the FULL STORY but a basic level of investigation would point him in the direction of the FIFA Transfer Matching System which monitors ALL International transfers. I have been lucky enough to have seen this in operation and trust me there is a box to tick which states "Transfer Complete".

ITC and player contracts are both part of the TMS and given we know the Premier League had requested an amendment to the terms in the player contract in my opinion it beggars belief that the TMS would have shown transfer complete.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/597059

This is a massive decision for the CAS as I believe there is no precedent to cover what happened here and it goes beyond FIFA Regulations. But one thing is certain FIFA and their member associations will have to revisit the regulations on International Transfers and when they are complete.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:28 pm

castleblue wrote:
Sven wrote:
castleblue wrote:Abbandonato at his very best. :lol: :lol:

At the time of the announcement by the club the statement made was "Subject to International Clearance" and not "Usual clearance from the football authorities. International clearance comes in the form of an International Transfer Certificate.

He claims it is Walesonline understanding that the Welsh FA had "Granted" the ITC by the time of the tragic accident in which ES died. NONSENSE because FIFA regulations dictate that the National Association the player is leaving are responsible for issuing the ITC after receiving a request from the National Association of the club the player is moving to.

The National Association with "Governance" over Cardiff City is The FA and they would have been processing this transfer and having found an error in the transfer contract had not completed the transfer. FIFA stated in their decision on this transfer that the Welsh FA had confirmed they had received the ITC from the French FA.

This is a complex matter clearly indicated by the numbers of Lawyers involved and God alone knows which way the CAS will go with this. But ONLY Abbandonato could claim this represents the FULL STORY.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:


Great post and throws it back at him, Garry... :clap:

It is well known that a number of 'journos' are now writing what they are told to by a certain element at the club and this may well be one such instance?

The 'ruling' is going to be intriguing, as the overall 'story' appears to cast doubt on the completion of the transfer but will that be the conclusion of CAS under any of the three juristrictions (French, Swiss and UK) where the specific elements involved are set in Law


Chris it's typical Abbandonato claiming the FULL STORY but a basic level of investigation would point him in the direction of the FIFA Transfer Matching System which monitors ALL International transfers. I have been lucky enough to have seen this in operation and trust me there is a box to tick which states "Transfer Complete".

ITC and player contracts are both part of the TMS and given we know the Premier League had requested an amendment to the terms in the player contract in my opinion it beggars belief that the TMS would have shown transfer complete.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/597059

This is a massive decision for the CAS as I believe there is no precedent to cover what happened here and it goes beyond FIFA Regulations. But one thing is certain FIFA and their member associations will have to revisit the regulations on International Transfers and when they are complete.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Another intriguing post full of relevant information, Gary :clap:

Having read that and the Premier League rules, I feel even more optimistic than I did previously :thumbright:

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:17 pm

Sadly it’s very true what Sven has posted below.

The reporters should be ashamed of themselves.
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Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:00 pm

JJ1927 wrote:Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.


Shouldn’t even have to pay 50% it’s entirely on Nantes involving the McKays. I’d be amazed if we actually had offered a compromise and even more so amazed if Nantes turned it down.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:06 pm

M4 Exile wrote:
JJ1927 wrote:Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.


Shouldn’t even have to pay 50% it’s entirely on Nantes involving the McKays. I’d be amazed if we actually had offered a compromise and even more so amazed if Nantes turned it down.

Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:46 pm

M4 Exile wrote:
JJ1927 wrote:Biggest winners are the lawyers. A sensible compromise should have been agreed by the clubs. City pay 50% of the transfer fee figure of £15 million with the agents told to whistle for their money.


Shouldn’t even have to pay 50% it’s entirely on Nantes involving the McKays. I’d be amazed if we actually had offered a compromise and even more so amazed if Nantes turned it down.

No offer was made other than (from the Bluebirds side) the opportunity to meet and discuss; but FC Nantes declined every invite

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:03 am

I thought the main point of our defence (previously reported in the press) was that Nantes insisted on inserting a clause that the PL registration had to be complete. Also, I can’t remember the details of a previous summertime transfer where the player signed but PL registration didn’t complete and had to wait until January window for his registration. In the meantime was registered with his new club, but unable to play.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:26 am

wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 am

Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:20 am

I am a big Neil Warnock fan, but he was very good friends with the agents and even had his two sons in our U23 team and before Warnock had them at Leeds.

Very suspicious all that.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:40 am

Simplesimon wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.


Just playing devils advocate as we are fully aware how lawyers will manipulate the facts.

We are talking about Cardiff vs Nante here and Nante may well say they employed McKay's son and would be well within their rights to assume they wouldn't be employing a banned agent.

Nante not at fault, they require payment and it is up to us to go after Willie McKay for his involvement in something that had nothing to do with him.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:10 pm

Wayne S wrote:
Simplesimon wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.


Just playing devils advocate as we are fully aware how lawyers will manipulate the facts.

We are talking about Cardiff vs Nante here and Nante may well say they employed McKay's son and would be well within their rights to assume they wouldn't be employing a banned agent.

Nante not at fault, they require payment and it is up to us to go after Willie McKay for his involvement in something that had nothing to do with him.


I think the law of Agency will tie in McKay as he’s in print saying he spoke with Nantes, Sala, that he could sell him to premier league club for big fees and salaries, and CCFC that he had the rights to sell Sala in UK as he’d been retained by Nate’s. To separate him from the chain of liability his son would have had to make it very very clear to everyone else that his old man was just spouting. But he didn’t as he was clearly working for him. That binds the son in, and as the son was representing Nantes he has a responsibility to conduct himself and in turn his representatives properly as the representative of Nantes. Unless this chain is proven as broken I think Young McKay and Nantes are up against it. But as others have commented it’s crossing multiple legal jurisdictions and legal opinions. Fingers crossed though

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:54 pm

Wayne S wrote:
Simplesimon wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.


Just playing devils advocate as we are fully aware how lawyers will manipulate the facts.

We are talking about Cardiff vs Nante here and Nante may well say they employed McKay's son and would be well within their rights to assume they wouldn't be employing a banned agent.

Nante not at fault, they require payment and it is up to us to go after Willie McKay for his involvement in something that had nothing to do with him.


I think that’s the most likely outcome and the main reason the club have taken this to CAS.

They are looking for a finding that tied McKay in therefore makes it virtually impossible for a court not to find against us when we take another action against him.

Unlike many I don’t think the CAS finding will be the end of this. It’s just part of the club building up a case. We may well have to pay Nantes but then look to recover that from the agent.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:55 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
Simplesimon wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.


Just playing devils advocate as we are fully aware how lawyers will manipulate the facts.

We are talking about Cardiff vs Nante here and Nante may well say they employed McKay's son and would be well within their rights to assume they wouldn't be employing a banned agent.

Nante not at fault, they require payment and it is up to us to go after Willie McKay for his involvement in something that had nothing to do with him.


I think that’s the most likely outcome and the main reason the club have taken this to CAS.

They are looking for a finding that tied McKay in therefore makes it virtually impossible for a court not to find against us when we take another action against him.

Unlike many I don’t think the CAS finding will be the end of this. It’s just part of the club building up a case. We may well have to pay Nantes but then look to recover that from the agent.

Sorry, Tim; (quote) "impossible for a Court not to find against us..."? :?

Is that what you wanted to say? :thumbright:

Personally, I think it's too tough to call but 'the end' may certainly not be nigh, if our club are not 'happy' with the outcome

I know from an impeccable source that Vincent Tan is not happy with much of went on before, during and after the awful event and also certain individuals involved; and I don't blame him for believing the club have been hard done by and potentially duped (more on that another time)

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:42 am

piledriver64 wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
Simplesimon wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.


Just playing devils advocate as we are fully aware how lawyers will manipulate the facts.

We are talking about Cardiff vs Nante here and Nante may well say they employed McKay's son and would be well within their rights to assume they wouldn't be employing a banned agent.

Nante not at fault, they require payment and it is up to us to go after Willie McKay for his involvement in something that had nothing to do with him.


I think that’s the most likely outcome and the main reason the club have taken this to CAS.

They are looking for a finding that tied McKay in therefore makes it virtually impossible for a court not to find against us when we take another action against him.

Unlike many I don’t think the CAS finding will be the end of this. It’s just part of the club building up a case. We may well have to pay Nantes but then look to recover that from the agent.



I think the reason the club has appealed to the CAS against a decision of FIFA to instruct Cardiff City FC to make a payment to cover the first instalment on this transfer is because that's the only avenue open to them. It doesn't matter if it's a member association of FIFA, a league, club or individual the avenue of appeal against a decision of FIFA is the CAS.

This is a very complex issue, and one without precedent in footballing terms, but whichever way the CAS decide this case still has mileage through the courts.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:28 am

Sven wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
Simplesimon wrote:
Wayne S wrote:
wez1927 wrote:Agree mckays we're nantes selling agent ,100% the agent and nantes should pay compensation to cardiff .


Buy wasn't the McKay that Nante employed NOT the McKay that hired the plane?

Willie McKay was not the agent as he was banned.

It may mean we go after Willie McKay personally and that is never gonna end with us getting our money back.


Willie McKay held himself out as being Nantes agent. Saying he was working for his son. If CCFC genuinely thought that to be the case thst means his son is liable for his fathers actions. As his son was Nantes agent He is deemed to be acting under their instructions, and they are liable for his cock ups.


Just playing devils advocate as we are fully aware how lawyers will manipulate the facts.

We are talking about Cardiff vs Nante here and Nante may well say they employed McKay's son and would be well within their rights to assume they wouldn't be employing a banned agent.

Nante not at fault, they require payment and it is up to us to go after Willie McKay for his involvement in something that had nothing to do with him.


I think that’s the most likely outcome and the main reason the club have taken this to CAS.

They are looking for a finding that tied McKay in therefore makes it virtually impossible for a court not to find against us when we take another action against him.

Unlike many I don’t think the CAS finding will be the end of this. It’s just part of the club building up a case. We may well have to pay Nantes but then look to recover that from the agent.

Sorry, Tim; (quote) "impossible for a Court not to find against us..."? :?

Is that what you wanted to say? :thumbright:

Personally, I think it's too tough to call but 'the end' may certainly not be nigh, if our club are not 'happy' with the outcome

I know from an impeccable source that Vincent Tan is not happy with much of went on before, during and after the awful event and also certain individuals involved; and I don't blame him for believing the club have been hard done by and potentially duped (more on that another time)


Well pointed out !! No I didn't mean to say "impossible", "more difficult" would be my view :thumbright:

Of course nobody can really predict the outcome of trials or tribunals but I think we can all see that this is such a complicated matter that the only place it was ever going to be resolved was in a court/tribunal.

Unfortunately I agree with you, I don't think this is going to be fully resolved for a good while yet.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:41 am

So to put it simply :-

Before the contract is in place, Sala needs to given the clearance by the French FA, this in turn needs to go to the Welsh FA for approval - but also the English FA need to approve it as well.

When does he become a Cardiff city player - it would seem that only when all 3 FA's have approved it can he then play.
So the contract would only be in place once all 3 have signed off and approved the transfer. It seems at the time of the crash this what not the case. And until such a time all the FA's have not confirmed the transfer - then he was still under contract with Nantes.

To take this forward - what would have happened if the crash had not happened - he came back to Cardiff - he would have not been allowed to play to play (hence no contract in place) as the FA's involved had not all agreed it. He couldnt not play for us until the amendments / approval had been given.

In the eyes of the law - the contract was not in place - hence still a Nantes player at the time of the crash.

Re: FC NANTES: THE BLUEBIRDS CASE CAN FINALLY BE REVEALED

Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:51 am

I should add - Im not a lawyer in case you hadnt guessed. I do remember doing the laws of contract at Uni though. In this case I dont think employment laws would be relevant as - it would be a contract between 2 businesses.
Also I dont know if Sala would operate through his own UK / EU based Ltd company rather than as an individual. Im also presuming the contract would state services rendered in return for various payments over a fixed period of time. The contract should have said or implied the contract is only a contract once all relevant authorities have agreed the transfer.

There is no point spending 15 million pounds on a player that doesnt get international clearance from the relevant FA's.

What is clear though - is that this case will set a precedent for all future contracts.