OT POLL: WALES FIRST IN UK TO 'BAN' SMACKING

Wales introduces ban on smacking and slapping children
Welsh government hails ‘historic moment’ for children’s rights amid calls for England to follow suit
By Steven Morris

Smacking and slapping children has been outlawed in Wales, with people told to contact social services or police if they see a parent or carer meting out physical punishment.

The law change, which came into force first thing on Monday, was hailed as “historic” by the Labour-led Welsh government and a number of child protection champions, who called for England to follow suit.

But critics, including the Welsh Conservatives, expressed concerns that it would criminalise parents trying to do their best and create a “Stasi culture” with people “shopping” their neighbours and even making malicious allegations.

The legislation that has come into force removes the defence of “reasonable punishment” that has been in force since Victorian times in England and Wales and makes all forms of physical punishment against children, such as smacking, hitting, slapping and shaking illegal. The law will apply to everybody in Wales, including visitors.

Julie Morgan, the deputy minister for social services, who has campaigned for the law change for more than two decades, said: “Today is a historic moment for children and their rights in Wales as we make physically punishing children a thing of the past.”

Morgan rejected the notion the law would create a “Stasi culture”. She said: “We don’t want people spying,” but added: “Looking after children is the responsibility of the whole community.”

Morgan said attitudes had changed in recent years with few parents now using physical punishment. “The culture has started to change and I think this law will reinforce that,” she added.

She said she hoped England would follow the example of Wales and Scotland, which brought in a ban in November 2020. She said: “We’d love it to happen in England. We’re happy to work with people in England to push this forward.”

Viv Laing, the policy and public affairs manager at NSPCC Cymru Wales, said both England and Northern Ireland, where there has been no law change, were outliers.

She said: “In Wales, as in more than 60 countries around the world, we will no longer tolerate physical violence against children. Until now, children were the only group in our society who it was acceptable to strike in certain circumstances. We don’t allow the physical punishment of adults or animals, so it is absurd that we have for so long with children.”

The Welsh government’s website makes it clear that anyone who physically punishes a child will be breaking the law, risks being arrested or charged with assault and may get a criminal record.

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The question “What should I do if I see a child being physically punished or if I am concerned about a child?”

The answer is: “Contact your local social services department … You can also call the police in an emergency or if a child is in immediate danger.”

The government says the police and Crown Prosecution Service will apply two tests: is there evidence to charge and is it in the public interest to do so. They will also consider what is in the best interests of the child. It stresses that “rough and tumble” play is permitted.

The Welsh Conservative and shadow social services minister, Gareth Davies, said the law was “unnecessary, unworkable, and undesired” and had been pushed through by politicians who thought they knew better than parents.

He said: “I am very worried about campaigns that encourage a Stasi culture in Wales where people – and children – are encouraged to shop parents who discipline their children in what they deem a proportionate manner into the police.

“The Labour government in Cardiff Bay is clearly more interested in new age dogma rather than respecting parents.”

The 2nd and last paragraph tells you the problem with this law....

With all due respect - you are all too late to start complaining if you do not agree.

This was proposed by the Labour Welsh Assembly way back in 2017 and was put out to public consultation and over 70% said NO then Labour did not push it through but sat on it and then put it out for another public consultation in 2019 and just re-phrased some questions (but basically the same).. again it was a 60% - 40% against BUT Labour do not listen to public opinion (same as Wales voted for Brexit but Labour pushed for remain).

The "Be Reasonable" campaign asked people to write to their Welsh MP's if they did not want this Law to be enacted.

The Labour administration rides roughshod over the Welsh peoples opinions (even after votes) but after more than 20 years of them, what do you expect ?

Until they are voted OUT by the people, expect the same going forwards.

The campaign was supported by 150 childrens charities, some who have committed substantial funds into their campaign, money which could have been better spent. If you give to these charities and disagree with the law, next time they coming knocking on your door tell them where to go.

With all due respect - you are all too late to start complaining if you do not agree.

This was proposed by the Labour Welsh Assembly way back in 2017 and was put out to public consultation and over 70% said NO then Labour did not push it through but sat on it and then put it out for another public consultation in 2019 and just re-phrased some questions (but basically the same).. again it was a 60% - 40% against BUT Labour do not listen to public opinion (same as Wales voted for Brexit but Labour pushed for remain).

The "Be Reasonable" campaign asked people to write to their Welsh MP's if they did not want this Law to be enacted.

The Labour administration rides roughshod over the Welsh peoples opinions (even after votes) but after more than 20 years of them, what do you expect ?

Until they are voted OUT by the people, expect the same going forwards.

Labour will still be voted back in by the same people who know who voted no as they don't know any other way.

Just shows why I could never vote labour

With all due respect - you are all too late to start complaining if you do not agree.

This was proposed by the Labour Welsh Assembly way back in 2017 and was put out to public consultation and over 70% said NO then Labour did not push it through but sat on it and then put it out for another public consultation in 2019 and just re-phrased some questions (but basically the same).. again it was a 60% - 40% against BUT Labour do not listen to public opinion (same as Wales voted for Brexit but Labour pushed for remain).

The "Be Reasonable" campaign asked people to write to their Welsh MP's if they did not want this Law to be enacted.

The Labour administration rides roughshod over the Welsh peoples opinions (even after votes) but after more than 20 years of them, what do you expect ?

Until they are voted OUT by the people, expect the same going forwards.

Labour will still be voted back in by the same people who know who voted no as they don't know any other way.

Well it's not 1st time people have said no but they simply say put out for consultation and then ignore the consultation m4 springs to mind amongst other things! Dictatorship springs to mind..

With all due respect - you are all too late to start complaining if you do not agree.

This was proposed by the Labour Welsh Assembly way back in 2017 and was put out to public consultation and over 70% said NO then Labour did not push it through but sat on it and then put it out for another public consultation in 2019 and just re-phrased some questions (but basically the same).. again it was a 60% - 40% against BUT Labour do not listen to public opinion (same as Wales voted for Brexit but Labour pushed for remain).

The "Be Reasonable" campaign asked people to write to their Welsh MP's if they did not want this Law to be enacted.

The Labour administration rides roughshod over the Welsh peoples opinions (even after votes) but after more than 20 years of them, what do you expect ?

Until they are voted OUT by the people, expect the same going forwards.

Labour will still be voted back in by the same people who know who voted no as they don't know any other way.

Virtually everything they do is against public opinion yet they still get voted in, Wales is in a shocking state, you can't get an ambulance or treated in A&E within a 12 hour day most of the time and they are messing about with over zealous petty covid restrictions and stupid attention seeking topics like this.

Anyone who could vote for Drakeford after this last couple of years needs their head examined, I can't see me living in Wales in 10 years, it will be a third World Country the way things are going!

ps I don't really have strong opinions either way on this, I just object to them not dealing with the basics especially the Welsh NHS, housing, the state of the economy and petty stupid covid restrictions like five miles that were not needed!

Scotland was the first country in the UK to ban smacking.

A damn good thrashing never did me any harm.

Virtue signalling at its finest. Will not stop real abuse and make conscientious good parents potential criminals.

Fcuking useless

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

The campaign was supported by 150 childrens charities, some who have committed substantial funds into their campaign, money which could have been better spent. If you give to these charities and disagree with the law, next time they coming knocking on your door tell them where to go.

That's 150 charities that have forgotten more than you know about the affects of these things.

You watch what happens from now on, the kids of today are already spoilt brats and now they will just do what they want because they know they can’t be touched. Absolutely useless and a very bad move.
A clout off my parents never did me any harm.

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

Exactly, the worlds gone mad

The campaign was supported by 150 childrens charities, some who have committed substantial funds into their campaign, money which could have been better spent. If you give to these charities and disagree with the law, next time they coming knocking on your door tell them where to go.

That's 150 charities that have forgotten more than you know about the affects of these things.

That's a hell of a lot of charities for one cause? Must spend millions paying their executives ect is there a need for 150 charities for kids?

It’s up to the Cons to get their act together and put up a decent leader. Until that happens, It’s drippy and the DDR.. and the predictable incompetence and failure.

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What’s stopping a spoilt brat reporting his parents (or any adult) for sexual assault currently?

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What’s stopping a spoilt brat reporting his parents (or any adult) for sexual assault currently?

Nothing..... but there again as you know most of those kind of crimes go undetected sometimes for 15/20yrs before come out... not to sure smacking will get reported in many years time .... not sure the relevance to this debate your point is but sure there is one somewhere ....

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What's stopping a girl from falsely reporting her other half for smacking her because she didn't get what she wanted?

By your logic we should decriminalise smacking girls because some bad eggs might take advantage of the law?

Ridiculous post.

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What’s stopping a spoilt brat reporting his parents (or any adult) for sexual assault currently?

Nothing..... but there again as you know most of those kind of crimes go undetected sometimes for 15/20yrs before come out... not to sure smacking will get reported in many years time .... not sure the relevance to this debate your point is but sure there is one somewhere ....

It's pretty obvious he's referring to other safeguarding laws and where you draw the line to be honest mate..

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What's stopping a girl from falsely reporting her other half for smacking her because she didn't get what she wanted?

By your logic we should decriminalise smacking girls because some bad eggs might take advantage of the law?

Ridiculous post.

What a ridiculous response .... we are talking about kids ? how old is the girl if she as a other half? I know kids grow up quickly but!!

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What’s stopping a spoilt brat reporting his parents (or any adult) for sexual assault currently?

Nothing..... but there again as you know most of those kind of crimes go undetected sometimes for 15/20yrs before come out... not to sure smacking will get reported in many years time .... not sure the relevance to this debate your point is but sure there is one somewhere ....

It's pretty obvious he's referring to other safeguarding laws and where you draw the line to be honest mate..

Thanks. Didn’t think I’d need to go into further explanation tbh, I thought it was quite obvious.

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What’s stopping a spoilt brat reporting his parents (or any adult) for sexual assault currently?

Bullying and physical abuse by the perp,thats what.


Nothing..... but there again as you know most of those kind of crimes go undetected sometimes for 15/20yrs before come out... not to sure smacking will get reported in many years time .... not sure the relevance to this debate your point is but sure there is one somewhere ....

Allan you should revisit your last comments.Do we repeal the rape law because one in one thousand woman is a attention seaker abusing the law on rape.Theres always exception to the rule and quoting the old spoilt brat argument is no argument whatsoever.Your right on one point though.Far too long has appauling behaviour against children gone unpunished.It gives more teeth to organizations like childline.This law means once a complaint is received the authorities must act on the childs behalf and produce an outcome and not for a minuite do I think they'll be outsmarted by a spoilt brat FFS.

What's stopping a spoilt brat from reporting his parents because he didn't get what he wanted?

What's stopping a girl from falsely reporting her other half for smacking her because she didn't get what she wanted?

By your logic we should decriminalise smacking girls because some bad eggs might take advantage of the law?

Ridiculous post.

What a ridiculous response .... we are talking about kids ? how old is the girl if she as a other half? I know kids grow up quickly but!!

I didn't think we needed to go into the details to be honest mate as they are irrelevant. I'm referring to how shit an argument it is to say 'WELL WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO FALSELY REPORT CRIMES UNDER THIS LAW'

The only detail worth mentioning is that twice consensus has told this brainless cohort what to do. They take the money, ruin this place, and get away with it. The happy sheep can keep eating grass. Wales, once innovative, is now zombie.

Swansea fans are going to go mental they still celebrate to this day their most famous achievement, Managers, coaching staff, players do the swim away in memory of the day hundreds of them chased a few Cardiff City supporting kids into the sea.

This is about state control over people's lives, bit by bit the state is eroding our freedoms as they did with lockdown, seat belts, hate speech laws (as we have in Scotland) reducing speed limits; smoking in pubs and so on. Smacking is a moral issue not a legal one. Smacking - as we all know - is not the same as beating or assaulting, which are already covered by the law anyway. There are huge problems with accepting this law as many posters have pointed out. This is an attack on family life, which, at one time, was a far more important institution than the state. In Ancient Greece, Antigone buried her brother because this was what families had a duty to do, even though the state prohibited the burial (because the brother had betrayed the state). Here in the Scottish Borders in the 16th and 17th centuries family was more important than nationality. If we allow it, the state will take total control of family life - as anyone who has had dealings with Social Services will know.

That’s it mate.. these one-eyed tossers don’t realise the damage they’re doing.