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Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:33 pm

In what world does any manager start Vaulks and Collins?
The pair were today predictably woeful with the consequence being City had in effect 9 men on the pitch.
I have been watching City since the early 70’s and am trying to think of players who are consistently picked being as bad as these two at this level.
Morison should never start with either or both of them again, and do his best to off load them in this window.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:37 pm

Danny Says wrote:In what world does any manager start Vaulks and Collins?
The pair were today predictably woeful with the consequence being City had in effect 9 men on the pitch.
I have been watching City since the early 70’s and am trying to think of players who are consistently picked being as bad as these two at this level.
Morison should never start with either or both of them again, and do his best to off load them in this window.

Who’d you start instead of Collins mate? He’s our only fit striker in that mould.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:39 pm

bluebirdoct1962 wrote:
Danny Says wrote:In what world does any manager start Vaulks and Collins?
The pair were today predictably woeful with the consequence being City had in effect 9 men on the pitch.
I have been watching City since the early 70’s and am trying to think of players who are consistently picked being as bad as these two at this level.
Morison should never start with either or both of them again, and do his best to off load them in this window.

Who’d you start instead of Collins mate? He’s our only fit striker in that mould.

That’s the managers job. He should know Collins is a waste of space so he should have improvised.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:43 pm

They were both awful and how Collins started after his performance against Preston is a joke.

Collins should have come off today instead of Harris - Davies and Harris would have stretched them far more at a time we were in control.

As for Vaulks - awful. How Sang or Colwill can’t start ahead of him is a mystery.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:45 pm

Both are very experienced Championship players unfortunately both like many others in the team are not playing well!

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:15 pm

HarriRhys22 wrote:Both are very experienced Championship players unfortunately both like many others in the team are not playing well!


Both are League One at best.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:23 pm

Danny Says wrote:
bluebirdoct1962 wrote:
Danny Says wrote:In what world does any manager start Vaulks and Collins?
The pair were today predictably woeful with the consequence being City had in effect 9 men on the pitch.
I have been watching City since the early 70’s and am trying to think of players who are consistently picked being as bad as these two at this level.
Morison should never start with either or both of them again, and do his best to off load them in this window.

Who’d you start instead of Collins mate? He’s our only fit striker in that mould.

That’s the managers job. He should know Collins is a waste of space so he should have improvised.

So you don't have an answer? :?

Seems the manager is bereft of choices, too! ;)

Vaulks is an enigma; he did well for a while before fading badly in the space of 10mins :(

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:31 pm

Collins work rate is fine he just cannot seem to score for us and he came here eith a decent record but we really need someone that we can guarantee will score but thats down to the board especially if moore moves on
Vaulks has never impressed me
he did when he first came scored the odd spectacular goal but even that seems to have deserted him and makes lots of mistakes to regulary compare him to an aged gunarsson and he is still miles behind him
Consitancy is what we need in midfield and vaulks just does' nt cut it.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:06 pm

Danny Says wrote:
bluebirdoct1962 wrote:
Danny Says wrote:In what world does any manager start Vaulks and Collins?
The pair were today predictably woeful with the consequence being City had in effect 9 men on the pitch.
I have been watching City since the early 70’s and am trying to think of players who are consistently picked being as bad as these two at this level.
Morison should never start with either or both of them again, and do his best to off load them in this window.

Who’d you start instead of Collins mate? He’s our only fit striker in that mould.

That’s the managers job. He should know Collins is a waste of space so he should have improvised.

I agree but there was nobody else to fill the position.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:29 pm

Where the hell is keiron Evans?.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:44 pm

Danny Says wrote:In what world does any manager start Vaulks and Collins?
The pair were today predictably woeful with the consequence being City had in effect 9 men on the pitch.
I have been watching City since the early 70’s and am trying to think of players who are consistently picked being as bad as these two at this level.
Morison should never start with either or both of them again, and do his best to off load them in this window.


Vaulks for the goal was shocking. Lost his man then gave up and hoped the defence dealt with it.

The problem is we take him off and bring on another plodder in the poundland Pirlo who had a great game for Blackburn.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:43 pm

Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:55 am

Bonner wrote:Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .



The problem with Collins is that due to the lack of pace and creativity and wide players, he finds himself dropping deeper and deeper and going out wide trying to get involved. He works hard but in the wrong areas... I think that is more of a reflection of how we lack pace / guile in the team, rather than his ability.

I am sure he would love to operate in the final third and make more meaningful runs and contribution in and around the goal... however, despite improved passing and possession, he still finds it difficult to get the ball.

When we brought on the subs yesterday and eventually formation (again too late if you ask me) then there were more balls being sent into the box which by that time Collins was knackered.

I think Collins, like Moore, are hugely suffering due to the lack of guile and pace around them so I hope that Morison addresses that before we judge them both too harshly. Collins has been pretty prolific in this division and even netted 13 last season.

As for Vaulks, he is a poor run of form and should be benched. Bring him on when we have our noses in front so he can kick people, get booked and waste time... but starting him is, in my opinion, is a very negative tactic... especially at home when you already have 5 at the back and two other defensively minded midfielders.

It's all very well Morison blaming the attackers for not scoring yesterday, but a little self reflection on his team selection and formation wouldn't go amiss!

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:32 am

Vaulks is very frustrating and he is a shadow of the player he was under Harris. Collins is fighting a losing battle with the service he gets and as much as Moore is better he looks frustrated in games with this.
With what is available yesterday then you have to look at the youngsters to offer the alternatives. Davies has got pace and trickery and Colwill looks to go forward and tries to support the forwards. I would rather go with them than see the same rotation of underperforming senior players

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:01 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:
Bonner wrote:Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .



The problem with Collins is that due to the lack of pace and creativity and wide players, he finds himself dropping deeper and deeper and going out wide trying to get involved. He works hard but in the wrong areas... I think that is more of a reflection of how we lack pace / guile in the team, rather than his ability.

I am sure he would love to operate in the final third and make more meaningful runs and contribution in and around the goal... however, despite improved passing and possession, he still finds it difficult to get the ball.

When we brought on the subs yesterday and eventually formation (again too late if you ask me) then there were more balls being sent into the box which by that time Collins was knackered.

I think Collins, like Moore, are hugely suffering due to the lack of guile and pace around them so I hope that Morison addresses that before we judge them both too harshly. Collins has been pretty prolific in this division and even netted 13 last season.

As for Vaulks, he is a poor run of form and should be benched. Bring him on when we have our noses in front so he can kick people, get booked and waste time... but starting him is, in my opinion, is a very negative tactic... especially at home when you already have 5 at the back and two other defensively minded midfielders.

It's all very well Morison blaming the attackers for not scoring yesterday, but a little self reflection on his team selection and formation wouldn't go amiss!


Agree with this 100%. Unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that Morison is not very tactically astute. Yes he has got us playing passing football but ineffective passing football yesterday anyway. He is still stuck in McCarthy,s over defensive three centrebacks no width keep things tight mentality and when behind is too cautious with his subsistutions.

Don’t blame him for our problems that’s down to McCarthy but yesterday I got the feeling we would not score if the match lasted six hours.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:12 am

Crayfish wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
Bonner wrote:Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .



The problem with Collins is that due to the lack of pace and creativity and wide players, he finds himself dropping deeper and deeper and going out wide trying to get involved. He works hard but in the wrong areas... I think that is more of a reflection of how we lack pace / guile in the team, rather than his ability.

I am sure he would love to operate in the final third and make more meaningful runs and contribution in and around the goal... however, despite improved passing and possession, he still finds it difficult to get the ball.

When we brought on the subs yesterday and eventually formation (again too late if you ask me) then there were more balls being sent into the box which by that time Collins was knackered.

I think Collins, like Moore, are hugely suffering due to the lack of guile and pace around them so I hope that Morison addresses that before we judge them both too harshly. Collins has been pretty prolific in this division and even netted 13 last season.

As for Vaulks, he is a poor run of form and should be benched. Bring him on when we have our noses in front so he can kick people, get booked and waste time... but starting him is, in my opinion, is a very negative tactic... especially at home when you already have 5 at the back and two other defensively minded midfielders.

It's all very well Morison blaming the attackers for not scoring yesterday, but a little self reflection on his team selection and formation wouldn't go amiss!


Agree with this 100%. Unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that Morison is not very tactically astute. Yes he has got us playing passing football but ineffective passing football yesterday anyway. He is still stuck in McCarthy,s over defensive three centrebacks no width keep things tight mentality and when behind is too cautious with his subsistutions.

Don’t blame him for our problems that’s down to McCarthy but yesterday I got the feeling we would not score if the match lasted six hours.

There’s a few of our players who I believe are struggling to play a passing game of any sort and there’s an onus on all players to move effectively for it to be a success. We are still learning but we are improving. We desperately need a bit of pace out wide and a midfield general. Plus a good centre forward if Moore goes. That’s my opinions. :thumbup:

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:41 am

Lets face it if it wasn't for the points deductions for Reading and Derby we would be in the bottom 3, cannot see anything changing apart from we do less hoofball. The players we have just seem uninterested. Not being a stato but what is our percentage of long throws into the box to goals scored from it?

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:41 pm

1980s Bluebird wrote:Lets face it if it wasn't for the points deductions for Reading and Derby we would be in the bottom 3, cannot see anything changing apart from we do less hoofball. The players we have just seem uninterested. Not being a stato but what is our percentage of long throws into the box to goals scored from it?


This last point is one that frustrates me massively.

We continue to throw aimless long balls into the box - one at the end yesterday as an example would have been better throwing short to Davies to put a ball in as some of his crossing was excellent.

Corners, free kicks, throws - we just keep lobbing it aimlessly in and as teams are expecting it they appear to be winning the first ball more often that not.

It amazes me that Morison has changed the style so much but still persists with this rather than working the ball into better positions.

Also frustrates the hell out of me that the players must see it not working but they keep doing the same thing rather than playing the game in front of them. Be braver and more creative and we might just catch teams out.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:58 pm

Think Vaulks and Collins are cracking players if they were in League Two.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:44 pm

Collins has never been championship grade. He is a lower league striker who fit a team who were on a great run and ended up in the championship. No shame in that but i have seen plenty on lower league strikers over the last few seasons and he is another Doyle, Revell.

Vaulks appears to go wildly in and out of form. When he is on it he looks amazing then other days it looks like he only has recently taken up football.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:51 pm

Bonner wrote:Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .


The general consensus seems to be that Collins is not scoring because he's just shit.
Moore isn't scoring because he doesn't get the service he needs.

I don't agree with either view, they're both average players in a below average team. All this talk of Moore being worth 10 million is just pie in the sky.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:56 pm

Vaulks is unreliable i.e. he sometimes plays well and sometimes poorly. At least he tries hard and is mobile. He is better than Pack. However, I don’t think we would miss either if we could offload them. :bluebird:

They say “everyone loves a trier” - well to a degree that is true…… but, at present we have seen very little to recommend Collins other than hard work.

I will query something now (partly tongue in cheek) that others can answer. Hypothetically, if we could do a straight swap Collins for Zahore would you do it? (Obviously Zahore will be available at a cheap price from WBA in this window). …. I would :shock:

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:09 pm

Crayfish wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
Bonner wrote:Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .



The problem with Collins is that due to the lack of pace and creativity and wide players, he finds himself dropping deeper and deeper and going out wide trying to get involved. He works hard but in the wrong areas... I think that is more of a reflection of how we lack pace / guile in the team, rather than his ability.

I am sure he would love to operate in the final third and make more meaningful runs and contribution in and around the goal... however, despite improved passing and possession, he still finds it difficult to get the ball.

When we brought on the subs yesterday and eventually formation (again too late if you ask me) then there were more balls being sent into the box which by that time Collins was knackered.

I think Collins, like Moore, are hugely suffering due to the lack of guile and pace around them so I hope that Morison addresses that before we judge them both too harshly. Collins has been pretty prolific in this division and even netted 13 last season.

As for Vaulks, he is a poor run of form and should be benched. Bring him on when we have our noses in front so he can kick people, get booked and waste time... but starting him is, in my opinion, is a very negative tactic... especially at home when you already have 5 at the back and two other defensively minded midfielders.

It's all very well Morison blaming the attackers for not scoring yesterday, but a little self reflection on his team selection and formation wouldn't go amiss!


Agree with this 100%. Unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that Morison is not very tactically astute. Yes he has got us playing passing football but ineffective passing football yesterday anyway. He is still stuck in McCarthy,s over defensive three centrebacks no width keep things tight mentality and when behind is too cautious with his subsistutions.

Don’t blame him for our problems that’s down to McCarthy but yesterday I got the feeling we would not score if the match lasted six hours.

Another example of his naivety was a second successive game not being able to change the formation against 10 men.
I see no reason why a back 5 is the norm these days. It would be different if we had the players capable of being effective but plainly we don’t.
I say give Sang a go in central midfield and Bowen who played in the development team last week.
Anybody but the terrible Vaulks
As for Collins the sooner Moore and Watters are fit the better.

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:47 pm

And there are some muppets that say Kieffer can leave.... ffs

Re: Vaulks & Collins

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:14 pm

Danny Says wrote:
Crayfish wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
Bonner wrote:Collins such a good player.. don’t get the anti -Collins brigade.
Actually works a lot harder on pitch than Kieffer does .



The problem with Collins is that due to the lack of pace and creativity and wide players, he finds himself dropping deeper and deeper and going out wide trying to get involved. He works hard but in the wrong areas... I think that is more of a reflection of how we lack pace / guile in the team, rather than his ability.

I am sure he would love to operate in the final third and make more meaningful runs and contribution in and around the goal... however, despite improved passing and possession, he still finds it difficult to get the ball.

When we brought on the subs yesterday and eventually formation (again too late if you ask me) then there were more balls being sent into the box which by that time Collins was knackered.

I think Collins, like Moore, are hugely suffering due to the lack of guile and pace around them so I hope that Morison addresses that before we judge them both too harshly. Collins has been pretty prolific in this division and even netted 13 last season.

As for Vaulks, he is a poor run of form and should be benched. Bring him on when we have our noses in front so he can kick people, get booked and waste time... but starting him is, in my opinion, is a very negative tactic... especially at home when you already have 5 at the back and two other defensively minded midfielders.

It's all very well Morison blaming the attackers for not scoring yesterday, but a little self reflection on his team selection and formation wouldn't go amiss!


Agree with this 100%. Unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that Morison is not very tactically astute. Yes he has got us playing passing football but ineffective passing football yesterday anyway. He is still stuck in McCarthy,s over defensive three centrebacks no width keep things tight mentality and when behind is too cautious with his subsistutions.

Don’t blame him for our problems that’s down to McCarthy but yesterday I got the feeling we would not score if the match lasted six hours.

Another example of his naivety was a second successive game not being able to change the formation against 10 men.
I see no reason why a back 5 is the norm these days. It would be different if we had the players capable of being effective but plainly we don’t.
I say give Sang a go in central midfield and Bowen who played in the development team last week.
Anybody but the terrible Vaulks
As for Collins the sooner Moore and Watters are fit the better.

I wouldn’t disagree with most of what you say but he went with a bank 4 as soon as they went to 10 men. :thumbup: