When people who have refused to be vaccinated are admitted t

DR Steven Wilson:

When people who have refused to be vaccinated are admitted to hospital with Covid, do they also refuse all other treatments based on knowledge gained in the last two years because they are ‘too new’ and they want to wait for more evidence? Genuinely interested in the answers.

?Its still their choice to make Annis! Do smokers refuse treatment for smoking related diseases, even though the risks are very clear around smoking? Not everyone who has declined to be jabbed are anarchistic.a few yes, but to tar them all is unfair imho.
I read earlier a poster laughing and stating if your unvaccinated, you are going to get it!

Well through circumstance im unvaccinated,but have yet to catch it, 2 yrs in, and if i have ive been asymptomatic, this includes delivering prescriptions to the elderly & vulnerable during the 1st lockdown, so I must be one lucky git!

?Its still their choice to make Annis! Do smokers refuse treatment for smoking related diseases, even though the risks are very clear around smoking? Not everyone who has declined to be jabbed are anarchistic.a few yes, but to tar them all is unfair imho.
I read earlier a poster laughing and stating if your unvaccinated, you are going to get it!

Well through circumstance im unvaccinated,but have yet to catch it, 2 yrs in, and if i have ive been asymptomatic, this includes delivering prescriptions to the elderly & vulnerable during the 1st lockdown, so I must be one lucky git!

Well from today NO one is allowed in any Bars, Cafes and restaurants in Spain without proof of double vaccination and id.

We shall see the outcome ?

?Its still their choice to make Annis! Do smokers refuse treatment for smoking related diseases, even though the risks are very clear around smoking? Not everyone who has declined to be jabbed are anarchistic.a few yes, but to tar them all is unfair imho.
I read earlier a poster laughing and stating if your unvaccinated, you are going to get it!

Well through circumstance im unvaccinated,but have yet to catch it, 2 yrs in, and if i have ive been asymptomatic, this includes delivering prescriptions to the elderly & vulnerable during the 1st lockdown, so I must be one lucky git!

Well from today NO one is allowed in any Bars, Cafes and restaurants in Spain without proof of double vaccination and id.

We shall see the outcome ?

I thought you were talking uk Annis.
This is a very slippery slope we are on, what of those who cannot provide proof? Do those of us who cannot be jabbed have to show all and sundry our medical reasons? Therefore having to disclise our disabilities to anyone who asks? As of 2010 in the uk, the disabilities act made it illegal to protect a persons privacy, so as not to discriminate against us.
As you say, we will see what unfolds, but I can see legal challenges being made if that happens here.

DR Steven Wilson:

When people who have refused to be vaccinated are admitted to hospital with Covid, do they also refuse all other treatments based on knowledge gained in the last two years because they are ‘too new’ and they want to wait for more evidence? Genuinely interested in the answers.

I imagine the short answer is no they don't.

Medical services are far from infinite. The issue is what services are others not having as a result.

Lots of standard surgery not taking place as a result.

And then the big question/ dilemma.
One ventilator, two patients. Otherwise fit 60 year old triple jabbed and a 25 year old unjabbed both need ventilator for covid. Doctors decide what?

?Its still their choice to make Annis! Do smokers refuse treatment for smoking related diseases, even though the risks are very clear around smoking? Not everyone who has declined to be jabbed are anarchistic.a few yes, but to tar them all is unfair imho.
I read earlier a poster laughing and stating if your unvaccinated, you are going to get it!

Well through circumstance im unvaccinated,but have yet to catch it, 2 yrs in, and if i have ive been asymptomatic, this includes delivering prescriptions to the elderly & vulnerable during the 1st lockdown, so I must be one lucky git!

Well from today NO one is allowed in any Bars, Cafes and restaurants in Spain without proof of double vaccination and id.

We shall see the outcome ?

I thought you were talking uk Annis.
This is a very slippery slope we are on, what of those who cannot provide proof? Do those of us who cannot be jabbed have to show all and sundry our medical reasons? Therefore having to disclise our disabilities to anyone who asks? As of 2010 in the uk, the disabilities act made it illegal to protect a persons privacy, so as not to discriminate against us.
As you say, we will see what unfolds, but I can see legal challenges being made if that happens here.

Does that mean you are breaking the law if you decide to say?

DR Steven Wilson:

When people who have refused to be vaccinated are admitted to hospital with Covid, do they also refuse all other treatments based on knowledge gained in the last two years because they are ‘too new’ and they want to wait for more evidence? Genuinely interested in the answers.

Big question Annis but my guess would be faced with their own mortality they would accept the new treatments etc. I have a relative who thought this was just the flu so refused the vaccine but caught the delta variant back in January and he ended up in hospital. He took an experimental treatment and recovered quickly but still declined the vaccine when offered.

I don't believe in mandatory vaccination and in my opinion vaccine passports are bollocks because you can still catch the virus and pass it on, although there is a lower risk of doing that if your vaccinated.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

DR Steven Wilson:

When people who have refused to be vaccinated are admitted to hospital with Covid, do they also refuse all other treatments based on knowledge gained in the last two years because they are ‘too new’ and they want to wait for more evidence? Genuinely interested in the answers.

Big question Annis but my guess would be faced with their own mortality they would accept the new treatments etc. I have a relative who thought this was just the flu so refused the vaccine but caught the delta variant back in January and he ended up in hospital. He took an experimental treatment and recovered quickly but still declined the vaccine when offered.

I don't believe in mandatory vaccination and in my opinion vaccine passports are bollocks because you can still catch the virus and pass it on, although there is a lower risk of doing that if your vaccinated.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

Spot on again, Gary

Clearly there are some (we see that from bluesince62 above) who simply cannot have the vaccine; but the numbers declining it for (often) nefarious reasons are potentially causing a bigger issue than they might admit in other medical areas and only today we have been told the numbers on 'routine' waiting lists has doubled due to unvaxxed Covid cases and the impact on NHS staffs

I think Spain have got it right and I see a further ban on 'Brits' travelling there soon

DR Steven Wilson:

When people who have refused to be vaccinated are admitted to hospital with Covid, do they also refuse all other treatments based on knowledge gained in the last two years because they are ‘too new’ and they want to wait for more evidence? Genuinely interested in the answers.

Big question Annis but my guess would be faced with their own mortality they would accept the new treatments etc. I have a relative who thought this was just the flu so refused the vaccine but caught the delta variant back in January and he ended up in hospital. He took an experimental treatment and recovered quickly but still declined the vaccine when offered.

I don't believe in mandatory vaccination and in my opinion vaccine passports are bollocks because you can still catch the virus and pass it on, although there is a lower risk of doing that if your vaccinated.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

Spot on again, Gary

Clearly there are some (we see that from bluesince62 above) who simply cannot have the vaccine; but the numbers declining it for (often) nefarious reasons are potentially causing a bigger issue than they might admit in other medical areas and only today we have been told the numbers on 'routine' waiting lists has doubled due to unvaxxed Covid cases and the impact on NHS staffs

I think Spain have got it right and I see a further ban on 'Brits' travelling there soon

A good balanced reoly chris, My concern is people do not realise, there are over 4m people in the uk, who have auto immune disease, and for a large portion, the vaccine is a very high risk to life, not so much for others, and some I know from clonics have been able to have their jabs, however the risk yo them was far greater than the average fit individual still, maybe not from death, but from some pretty serious possible side effects.
I cannot speak for other conditions, which may prevent safe vsccination of a person, only what i have had a near lifetime of experience with myself,but tht ere are others who simply cannot safely be jabbed currently( cuba has a new vaccine, developed the old way) and I am awaiting an appointment with my gp, to discuss it.
Does spain have the disability discrimination laws? If so, there may be challenges coming their way in the courts. I see one pister above finds it funny, and asked "will you be breaking the law"if i disclose my disability!! O think ill leave it there with that poster, as he seems so understated. (Not)

My elder brother nearly died two months ago. Double jabbed but has asthma, one week on oxygen in hospital. Told he would have passed away without the jabs...simple as.

My elder brother nearly died two months ago. Double jabbed but has asthma, one week on oxygen in hospital. Told he would have passed away without the jabs...simple as.

With the greatest of respect, this is why i can't get involved in these discussions cos everyone's gonna fall out as it involves people's families.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

With the very greatest respect mate, so much of the above is just not true. To be clear I'm not accusing you of lying, but of the stories you see in the press not being accurate or giving the whole picture.

The article that has done the rounds amongst the lazy barstards that pass for journalists these days claiming 9 out of 10 COVID hospitalisations are unvaccinated in London is based on a comment by Prof. Pearce on his own anecdotal observations of one ICU (St Mary's, Paddington).

The actual data for London isn't available but UK wide it is 34% unvaccinated vs. 61% vaccinated with 5% unknown.

I did a post about it here on the main COVID thread:

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2310

With regards to the Nightingale hospitals, unless I've missed something and they've been re-opened in the last few weeks they were all closed down after having just a fee hundred patients nationwide - the cost per patient was £1.7m or so. They were closed down because even at the height of COVID when there were 100K hospitalisations a day there were still beds. We are currently at less than a thousand hospitalisations per day for what it is worth.

Again a more detailed post on that in the main COVID thread (is three posts down)

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2250

If we are to blame anyone for the strain on the NHS it is the politicians for panicing and diverting all NHS resources at a time when they are most greatly needed COVID or no COVID and instead all efforts are focused towards a booster shot that is so far showing not to have a huge amount of efficacy to protect us against a variant that literally has the same symptoms as the common cold.

Your conclusion that there is a timebomb of patients awaiting other treatment that will be a far greater loss of life than COVID may well be correct, and one I am concerned about, but the narrative that this is all the fault of the unvaccinated is just not true when we look at the actual data.

I'll be honest, the messaging has been fairly clear and has increased the last few weeks and is moving along the lines of 'we would never do anything so un-British as mandatory vaccination but the antivaxxers are putting us all at risk...'

Personally, I think/hope this will all be other soon as Omicron rips through the population, at which point the data will be undeniable and the vaccination discussion unnecessary.

This whole narrative about the unvaccinated over-burdening the NHS is just one last attempt at coercion, this time playing on a social bias, rather than restricting a specific freedoms. (To be clear the reasoning as to why we are seeing this narrative if just my guess though just my guess though could be wrong about that.)

But the data on hospitalisations is definitely not the exaggerated 9 in 10 headlines that is doing the rounds

My elder brother nearly died two months ago. Double jabbed but has asthma, one week on oxygen in hospital. Told he would have passed away without the jabs...simple as.

That's great news in the end and thank goodness he did (have the jabs)

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

With the very greatest respect mate, so much of the above is just not true. To be clear I'm not accusing you of lying, but of the stories you see in the press not being accurate or giving the whole picture.

The article that has done the rounds amongst the lazy barstards that pass for journalists these days claiming 9 out of 10 COVID hospitalisations are unvaccinated in London is based on a comment by Prof. Pearce on his own anecdotal observations of one ICU (St Mary's, Paddington).

The actual data for London isn't available but UK wide it is 34% unvaccinated vs. 61% vaccinated with 5% unknown.

I did a post about it here on the main COVID thread:

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2310

With regards to the Nightingale hospitals, unless I've missed something and they've been re-opened in the last few weeks they were all closed down after having just a fee hundred patients nationwide - the cost per patient was £1.7m or so. They were closed down because even at the height of COVID when there were 100K hospitalisations a day there were still beds. We are currently at less than a thousand hospitalisations per day for what it is worth.

Again a more detailed post on that in the main COVID thread (is three posts down)

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2250

If we are to blame anyone for the strain on the NHS it is the politicians for panicing and diverting all NHS resources at a time when they are most greatly needed COVID or no COVID and instead all efforts are focused towards a booster shot that is so far showing not to have a huge amount of efficacy to protect us against a variant that literally has the same symptoms as the common cold.

Your conclusion that there is a timebomb of patients awaiting other treatment that will be a far greater loss of life than COVID may well be correct, and one I am concerned about, but the narrative that this is all the fault of the unvaccinated is just not true when we look at the actual data.

I'll be honest, the messaging has been fairly clear and has increased the last few weeks and is moving along the lines of 'we would never do anything so un-British as mandatory vaccination but the antivaxxers are putting us all at risk...'

Personally, I think/hope this will all be other soon as Omicron rips through the population, at which point the data will be undeniable and the vaccination discussion unnecessary.

This whole narrative about the unvaccinated over-burdening the NHS is just one last attempt at coercion, this time playing on a social bias, rather than restricting a specific freedoms. (To be clear the reasoning as to why we are seeing this narrative if just my guess though just my guess though could be wrong about that.)

But the data on hospitalisations is definitely not the exaggerated 9 in 10 headlines that is doing the rounds

It's easy to deny the reality staring you in the face but if you dismiss the words of Prof Pearce that's your right but when you add the words of Dr David Hepburn at the Grange Hospital in Cwmbran who has stated that the "Vast Majority" of patients in his ICU are unvaccinated or Dr Peter Hampshire at the Royal Liverpool hospital where 80% of his ICU neds are taken up by the unvaccinated then for me it's time to sit up and take notice.

Just my opinion of course.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

With the very greatest respect mate, so much of the above is just not true. To be clear I'm not accusing you of lying, but of the stories you see in the press not being accurate or giving the whole picture.

The article that has done the rounds amongst the lazy barstards that pass for journalists these days claiming 9 out of 10 COVID hospitalisations are unvaccinated in London is based on a comment by Prof. Pearce on his own anecdotal observations of one ICU (St Mary's, Paddington).

The actual data for London isn't available but UK wide it is 34% unvaccinated vs. 61% vaccinated with 5% unknown.

I did a post about it here on the main COVID thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213752&start=2310

With regards to the Nightingale hospitals, unless I've missed something and they've been re-opened in the last few weeks they were all closed down after having just a fee hundred patients nationwide - the cost per patient was £1.7m or so. They were closed down because even at the height of COVID when there were 100K hospitalisations a day there were still beds. We are currently at less than a thousand hospitalisations per day for what it is worth.

Again a more detailed post on that in the main COVID thread (is three posts down)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213752&start=2250

If we are to blame anyone for the strain on the NHS it is the politicians for panicing and diverting all NHS resources at a time when they are most greatly needed COVID or no COVID and instead all efforts are focused towards a booster shot that is so far showing not to have a huge amount of efficacy to protect us against a variant that literally has the same symptoms as the common cold.

Your conclusion that there is a timebomb of patients awaiting other treatment that will be a far greater loss of life than COVID may well be correct, and one I am concerned about, but the narrative that this is all the fault of the unvaccinated is just not true when we look at the actual data.

I'll be honest, the messaging has been fairly clear and has increased the last few weeks and is moving along the lines of 'we would never do anything so un-British as mandatory vaccination but the antivaxxers are putting us all at risk...'

Personally, I think/hope this will all be other soon as Omicron rips through the population, at which point the data will be undeniable and the vaccination discussion unnecessary.

This whole narrative about the unvaccinated over-burdening the NHS is just one last attempt at coercion, this time playing on a social bias, rather than restricting a specific freedoms. (To be clear the reasoning as to why we are seeing this narrative if just my guess though just my guess though could be wrong about that.)

But the data on hospitalisations is definitely not the exaggerated 9 in 10 headlines that is doing the rounds

It's easy to deny the reality staring you in the face but if you dismiss the words of Prof Pearce that's your right but when you add the words of Dr David Hepburn at the Grange Hospital in Cwmbran who has stated that the "Vast Majority" of patients in his ICU are unvaccinated or Dr Peter Hampshire at the Royal Liverpool hospital where 80% of his ICU neds are taken up by the unvaccinated then for me it's time to sit up and take notice.

Just my opinion of course.

No offence, but you have done exactly what you accuse ealing of! You are ignoring the fact that only 34% of ALL icu beds in the uk are taken by unvaccinated, whereas 61% are occupied by the vaccinated.
And going on a few hospitals that have a greater percentage of unvaccinated patients? Thats bending the figures to suit your views.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

With the very greatest respect mate, so much of the above is just not true. To be clear I'm not accusing you of lying, but of the stories you see in the press not being accurate or giving the whole picture.

The article that has done the rounds amongst the lazy barstards that pass for journalists these days claiming 9 out of 10 COVID hospitalisations are unvaccinated in London is based on a comment by Prof. Pearce on his own anecdotal observations of one ICU (St Mary's, Paddington).

The actual data for London isn't available but UK wide it is 34% unvaccinated vs. 61% vaccinated with 5% unknown.

I did a post about it here on the main COVID thread:

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2310

With regards to the Nightingale hospitals, unless I've missed something and they've been re-opened in the last few weeks they were all closed down after having just a fee hundred patients nationwide - the cost per patient was £1.7m or so. They were closed down because even at the height of COVID when there were 100K hospitalisations a day there were still beds. We are currently at less than a thousand hospitalisations per day for what it is worth.

Again a more detailed post on that in the main COVID thread (is three posts down)

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2250

If we are to blame anyone for the strain on the NHS it is the politicians for panicing and diverting all NHS resources at a time when they are most greatly needed COVID or no COVID and instead all efforts are focused towards a booster shot that is so far showing not to have a huge amount of efficacy to protect us against a variant that literally has the same symptoms as the common cold.

Your conclusion that there is a timebomb of patients awaiting other treatment that will be a far greater loss of life than COVID may well be correct, and one I am concerned about, but the narrative that this is all the fault of the unvaccinated is just not true when we look at the actual data.

I'll be honest, the messaging has been fairly clear and has increased the last few weeks and is moving along the lines of 'we would never do anything so un-British as mandatory vaccination but the antivaxxers are putting us all at risk...'

Personally, I think/hope this will all be other soon as Omicron rips through the population, at which point the data will be undeniable and the vaccination discussion unnecessary.

This whole narrative about the unvaccinated over-burdening the NHS is just one last attempt at coercion, this time playing on a social bias, rather than restricting a specific freedoms. (To be clear the reasoning as to why we are seeing this narrative if just my guess though just my guess though could be wrong about that.)

But the data on hospitalisations is definitely not the exaggerated 9 in 10 headlines that is doing the rounds

It's easy to deny the reality staring you in the face but if you dismiss the words of Prof Pearce that's your right but when you add the words of Dr David Hepburn at the Grange Hospital in Cwmbran who has stated that the "Vast Majority" of patients in his ICU are unvaccinated or Dr Peter Hampshire at the Royal Liverpool hospital where 80% of his ICU neds are taken up by the unvaccinated then for me it's time to sit up and take notice.

Just my opinion of course.

No offence, but you have done exactly what you accuse ealing of! You are ignoring the fact that only 34% of ALL icu beds in the uk are taken by unvaccinated, whereas 61% are occupied by the vaccinated.
And going on a few hospitals that have a greater percentage of unvaccinated patients? Thats bending the figures to suit your views.

That's a fair point as the situation is different in different areas but 2 of those 3 hospitals are in areas with the lowest vaccination rates in the country and for me there is a risk that health care becomes a postcode lottery, is that fair?

My views on vaccination are clear and I do not believe in mandatory vaccination, like some countries in europe, as I believe it is the right of each person to decide for themselves. I also believe that everyone deserves access to healthcare at the time they need it, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

In my opinion this needs a political resolution and today I have read that the NHS is looking into building temporary wards in hospital car parks, will it work, I don't know but for sure it will be better than a sick person waiting 6 hours or more in an ambulance waiting to be admitted.

The issue for me is where the unvaccinated should be treated because right now in London 9 out of 10 covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated and are clogging up a vital resource. London has the first "Nightingale Hospital" with a capacity of 4,000 beds, but currently only 500 are available, for me this hospital should receive ALL covid patients vaccinated or not.

The reality is those that have been vaccinated and need treatments for other conditions are being denied that treatment because an unvaccinated person has the bed they could need, that is not fair. The unvaccinated are the elephant in the room for politicians in the UK and the ONLY plan they have is to place more restrictions on those who have taken the vaccines, restrictions that include denying them much needed medical treatment.

There is a timebomb ticking in countries ALL around the world and the number of people who will have their lives cut short by NOT having a plan for the unvaccinated and the numbers WILL dwarf covid deaths.

With the very greatest respect mate, so much of the above is just not true. To be clear I'm not accusing you of lying, but of the stories you see in the press not being accurate or giving the whole picture.

The article that has done the rounds amongst the lazy barstards that pass for journalists these days claiming 9 out of 10 COVID hospitalisations are unvaccinated in London is based on a comment by Prof. Pearce on his own anecdotal observations of one ICU (St Mary's, Paddington).

The actual data for London isn't available but UK wide it is 34% unvaccinated vs. 61% vaccinated with 5% unknown.

I did a post about it here on the main COVID thread:

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2310

With regards to the Nightingale hospitals, unless I've missed something and they've been re-opened in the last few weeks they were all closed down after having just a fee hundred patients nationwide - the cost per patient was £1.7m or so. They were closed down because even at the height of COVID when there were 100K hospitalisations a day there were still beds. We are currently at less than a thousand hospitalisations per day for what it is worth.

Again a more detailed post on that in the main COVID thread (is three posts down)

https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... start=2250

If we are to blame anyone for the strain on the NHS it is the politicians for panicing and diverting all NHS resources at a time when they are most greatly needed COVID or no COVID and instead all efforts are focused towards a booster shot that is so far showing not to have a huge amount of efficacy to protect us against a variant that literally has the same symptoms as the common cold.

Your conclusion that there is a timebomb of patients awaiting other treatment that will be a far greater loss of life than COVID may well be correct, and one I am concerned about, but the narrative that this is all the fault of the unvaccinated is just not true when we look at the actual data.

I'll be honest, the messaging has been fairly clear and has increased the last few weeks and is moving along the lines of 'we would never do anything so un-British as mandatory vaccination but the antivaxxers are putting us all at risk...'

Personally, I think/hope this will all be other soon as Omicron rips through the population, at which point the data will be undeniable and the vaccination discussion unnecessary.

This whole narrative about the unvaccinated over-burdening the NHS is just one last attempt at coercion, this time playing on a social bias, rather than restricting a specific freedoms. (To be clear the reasoning as to why we are seeing this narrative if just my guess though just my guess though could be wrong about that.)

But the data on hospitalisations is definitely not the exaggerated 9 in 10 headlines that is doing the rounds

It's easy to deny the reality staring you in the face but if you dismiss the words of Prof Pearce that's your right but when you add the words of Dr David Hepburn at the Grange Hospital in Cwmbran who has stated that the "Vast Majority" of patients in his ICU are unvaccinated or Dr Peter Hampshire at the Royal Liverpool hospital where 80% of his ICU neds are taken up by the unvaccinated then for me it's time to sit up and take notice.

Just my opinion of course.

No offence, but you have done exactly what you accuse ealing of! You are ignoring the fact that only 34% of ALL icu beds in the uk are taken by unvaccinated, whereas 61% are occupied by the vaccinated.
And going on a few hospitals that have a greater percentage of unvaccinated patients? Thats bending the figures to suit your views.

That's a fair point as the situation is different in different areas but 2 of those 3 hospitals are in areas with the lowest vaccination rates in the country and for me there is a risk that health care becomes a postcode lottery, is that fair?

My views on vaccination are clear and I do not believe in mandatory vaccination, like some countries in europe, as I believe it is the right of each person to decide for themselves. I also believe that everyone deserves access to healthcare at the time they need it, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

In my opinion this needs a political resolution and today I have read that the NHS is looking into building temporary wards in hospital car parks, will it work, I don't know but for sure it will be better than a sick person waiting 6 hours or more in an ambulance waiting to be admitted.

To be fair, I dont argue with Prof. Pearce's direct experience (I explained that in the other thread I linked to) just as has been mentioned, don't think we should be extrapolating one (or three) sets of anecdotal evidence to the entire country when there is actual solid data we can use instead.

I think there is more we agree about than disagree on - no argument from me on any of your last post.

No offence, but you have done exactly what you accuse ealing of! You are ignoring the fact that only 34% of ALL icu beds in the uk are taken by unvaccinated, whereas 61% are occupied by the vaccinated.
And going on a few hospitals that have a greater percentage of unvaccinated patients? Thats bending the figures to suit your views.

For someone who says he is unable to be vaccinated due to a health issue which I have no reason to disbelieve, you seem to be very anti vaccination in a lot of your posts so I have a question which you may or may not answer, up to you.

If you were able to have the vaccine would you?