Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:50 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:52 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:55 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:56 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:04 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:08 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:18 am
Forever Blue wrote:David Henderson, the businessman who organised the flight that crashed, killing Emiliano Sala, has been found guilty at Cardiff Crown Court of endangering the safety of an aircraft.
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:18 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:20 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:23 am
Sven wrote:This is a sad day in many ways, as two men are still dead and nothing can change that
My immediate thoughts are with the families of both Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson, the latter of whom has never been found/recovered
The verdict itself is emphatic and has shown David 'Walter Mitty' Henderson to be what he is; a willing participant in actions that he might (likely had previously) got away with but which on this occasion cost lives
I don't know what options are open for the judge but Henderson now has a few days to reflect and worry (if he has an actual conscience after seeing the looks on the faces of him and those alongside leaving Court on TV?) before he learns his fate
Either way, he can absorb that fate, whilst two others cannot in large parts because of his disregarding actions
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:25 am
Igovernor wrote:Forever Blue wrote:David Henderson, the businessman who organised the flight that crashed, killing Emiliano Sala, has been found guilty at Cardiff Crown Court of endangering the safety of an aircraft.
Annis, I may be completely wrong here but I do not think for a minute that the Court of arbtration will come out in favour of City, all they are having to decide is whether Sala was our player or not. But this court verdict this morning shows that Macay was acting for Nantes and he then commissoned Henderson to ferry Sala to Wales.
So if the CoA say we have to pay Nantes then we will have to take Nantes to court for a lot more than £15m!
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:26 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:39 am
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:51 am
Paul Keevil wrote:..... Personally I think Outcome (1) will apply. I think the CAS will determine he was our player and that we owe the transfer - it then follows that we can bring a civil action for items 2(a)(b)
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:01 pm
Ninian27 wrote:Sky news reporting that the dispute between Nantes and Cardiff city over the 15million has already been decided by UEFA and FIFA that Cardiff must pay up the money. Cardiff have appealed and the matter will be decided early next year abd even if they lose the appeal Cardiff will then seek another case through the French court. This will certainly cost our club
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:22 pm
Sven wrote:This is a sad day in many ways, as two men are still dead and nothing can change that
My immediate thoughts are with the families of both Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson, the latter of whom has never been found/recovered
The verdict itself is emphatic and has shown David 'Walter Mitty' Henderson to be what he is; a willing participant in actions that he might (likely had previously) got away with but which on this occasion cost lives
I don't know what options are open for the judge but Henderson now has a few days to reflect and worry (if he has an actual conscience after seeing the looks on the faces of him and those alongside leaving Court on TV?) before he learns his fate
Either way, he can absorb that fate, whilst two others cannot in large parts because of his disregarding actions
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:56 pm
pembroke allan wrote:Ninian27 wrote:Sky news reporting that the dispute between Nantes and Cardiff city over the 15million has already been decided by UEFA and FIFA that Cardiff must pay up the money. Cardiff have appealed and the matter will be decided early next year abd even if they lose the appeal Cardiff will then seek another case through the French court. This will certainly cost our club
As been pointed out if as expected cas finds against club we are then in position to sue nante for fee and possibly loss earnings...... if as expected we win that case ( for reasons stated) nante will probably end up with legal bill not city.....hopefully all settled out of court.
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:59 pm
Paul Keevil wrote:This indeed is a sad day. The sheer recklessness cost someone their life.
Insofar as the legal proceedings are concerned, as I stated in another post, for me it is a 2 stage affair:
Outcome (1)
1) CAS find that we do owe FC Nantes £15m
then
2) a) CCFC can sue FC Nantes for £15m for being vicariously liable for the loss of their asset.
b) CCFC can also sue FC Nantes for loss of "Potential revenue" as a result of being relegated - and this could be anything from £50m upwards.
Outcome (2)
1) CAS find that the transfer had not gone through and therefore there is no £15m to pay
2 a) We wouldnt need to sue for £15m as we had not paid it
b) We could not sue for loss of "Potential Revenue" as it had been determined he was not our player
Personally I think Outcome (1) will apply. I think the CAS will determine he was our player and that we owe the transfer - it then follows that we can bring a civil action for items 2(a)(b)
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:00 pm
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:01 pm
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:10 pm
Scoularite wrote:Has it stated anywhere in the reports of the case that Nantes specifically requested their agent to organise the flights?
If not I don't think that this case will have any bearing on us paying the transfer fee. Even if they did request the flight we would still probably have to pay them unless it had been shown that they were aware that the pilot was not qualified.
I think that if Nantes were not involved with organising the flight the case is more likely to open up the possibility of suing the agent.
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:35 pm
piledriver64 wrote:Scoularite wrote:Has it stated anywhere in the reports of the case that Nantes specifically requested their agent to organise the flights?
If not I don't think that this case will have any bearing on us paying the transfer fee. Even if they did request the flight we would still probably have to pay them unless it had been shown that they were aware that the pilot was not qualified.
I think that if Nantes were not involved with organising the flight the case is more likely to open up the possibility of suing the agent.
You might be right, we aren't privy to that information.We also don't know the finer details of the contract if it had already been signed.
I'm not sure we can assume Nantes aren't liable if they requested the flight, they may well have had a duty of care to ensure the safety of their/our player.
It will all get resolved at some point but the more you look into this the more you realise that this tragedy could have been avoided. I just wish he had got on the commercial flight that Cardiff had offered him.
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:35 pm
Danny Says wrote:Echo the sadness of all this but if Sala is found to be a City player won’t he then be covered by the clubs insurance policy or if none then why wouldn’t the club claim on the insurance of the plane owners/operators?
Surely there are insurance companies behind the scenes arguing amongst themselves with City and Nantes as nominal named parties to the litigation?
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:40 pm
castleblue wrote:Sven wrote:This is a sad day in many ways, as two men are still dead and nothing can change that
My immediate thoughts are with the families of both Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson, the latter of whom has never been found/recovered
The verdict itself is emphatic and has shown David 'Walter Mitty' Henderson to be what he is; a willing participant in actions that he might (likely had previously) got away with but which on this occasion cost lives
I don't know what options are open for the judge but Henderson now has a few days to reflect and worry (if he has an actual conscience after seeing the looks on the faces of him and those alongside leaving Court on TV?) before he learns his fate
Either way, he can absorb that fate, whilst two others cannot in large parts because of his disregarding actions
I agree Chris and my heart goes out to ES family hopefully they feel justice has been served today. I do wonder mind if being found guilty of endangering a plane quite fits the crime. I have no idea what punishment awaits Henderson but as you say two people lost their lives in this crash because of his reckless behaviour. Do you think there is a risk, for Henderson, of further more serious charges like manslaughter. For me that would be justice.
On the flip side this has to be a good verdict for Cardiff City maybe not in the CAS case but to support action against Nantes.
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Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:48 pm
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:52 pm
castleblue wrote:Sven wrote:This is a sad day in many ways, as two men are still dead and nothing can change that
My immediate thoughts are with the families of both Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson, the latter of whom has never been found/recovered
The verdict itself is emphatic and has shown David 'Walter Mitty' Henderson to be what he is; a willing participant in actions that he might (likely had previously) got away with but which on this occasion cost lives
I don't know what options are open for the judge but Henderson now has a few days to reflect and worry (if he has an actual conscience after seeing the looks on the faces of him and those alongside leaving Court on TV?) before he learns his fate
Either way, he can absorb that fate, whilst two others cannot in large parts because of his disregarding actions
I agree Chris and my heart goes out to ES family hopefully they feel justice has been served today. I do wonder mind if being found guilty of endangering a plane quite fits the crime. I have no idea what punishment awaits Henderson but as you say two people lost their lives in this crash because of his reckless behaviour. Do you think there is a risk, for Henderson, of further more serious charges like manslaughter. For me that would be justice.
On the flip side this has to be a good verdict for Cardiff City maybe not in the CAS case but to support action against Nantes.
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Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:57 pm
Sven wrote:castleblue wrote:Sven wrote:'
When all is said and done, it is now accepted that Ibbotson was acting on behalf of Henderson, who was acting on behalf McKay, who was acting on behalf of FC of Nantes, who were selling their asset (ES) for financial gain
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:59 pm
Bluebina wrote:castleblue wrote:Sven wrote:This is a sad day in many ways, as two men are still dead and nothing can change that
My immediate thoughts are with the families of both Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson, the latter of whom has never been found/recovered
The verdict itself is emphatic and has shown David 'Walter Mitty' Henderson to be what he is; a willing participant in actions that he might (likely had previously) got away with but which on this occasion cost lives
I don't know what options are open for the judge but Henderson now has a few days to reflect and worry (if he has an actual conscience after seeing the looks on the faces of him and those alongside leaving Court on TV?) before he learns his fate
Either way, he can absorb that fate, whilst two others cannot in large parts because of his disregarding actions
I agree Chris and my heart goes out to ES family hopefully they feel justice has been served today. I do wonder mind if being found guilty of endangering a plane quite fits the crime. I have no idea what punishment awaits Henderson but as you say two people lost their lives in this crash because of his reckless behaviour. Do you think there is a risk, for Henderson, of further more serious charges like manslaughter. For me that would be justice.
On the flip side this has to be a good verdict for Cardiff City maybe not in the CAS case but to support action against Nantes.
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Judge Mr Justice Foxton granted Henderson bail to return to be sentenced for both offences on November 12.
He faces maximum sentences of five years imprisonment for endangering the aircraft and two years for the lesser charge.
Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:00 pm
Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:04 pm
piledriver64 wrote:Sven wrote:castleblue wrote:Sven wrote:'
When all is said and done, it is now accepted that Ibbotson was acting on behalf of Henderson, who was acting on behalf McKay, who was acting on behalf of FC of Nantes, who were selling their asset (ES) for financial gain
When you look at it in those stark terms it would seem the only people NOT involved was us !!
As everyone has said, nothing final here but certainly opens up some interesting routes in terms of liability.