worcester_ccfc wrote:It's generally known that we have one style of football. That's to compete in the air and make the most of set pieces. Yes, we will score the odd goal playing attractive football like Colwill's second on Sunday, but these will be few and far between.
It also relies on the team being extremely physical and that's the biggest problem with it, in terms of doing well.
Outfield players like Flint, Morrison, Nelson, Pack and Moore are a key part of that system. This also means they are all automatic starters, when fit.
We will have games when we get results, but we will also have games when it is totally ineffective - like it was tonight.
It is impossible for the players to perform these tactics to a high level when we have games Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday or Sunday-Wednesday-Saturday.
That's because we are relying on a large amount of players to play every game. They can't perform to a high level every game, when we play such physical football.
If we were playing slick passing football, it wouldn't be as much of an issue because we would be relying less on physicality.
But it is not as easy to change our style of play as some seem to think.
We have been a set piece team and a physical team for many years now and it's is ingrained in these players to play like it.
If you look at Flint, Morrison and Pack on particular. They simply would not be able to suddenly start playing a passing game.
In fact, I think we've gone the other way and become more physical this season for that exact reason.
People didn't mind it so much when Warnock got us promoted. That shows to me that fans in general don't care what the style is like if it's successful - you only have to look at Burnley to prove that.
But there is an argument that we have now gone too physical and that is very difficult to be successful with.
I keep hearing that the club want to bring through the young players like Colwill, Harris, Bowen and Evans so we can use this as a transition season.
But the issue is we should also then be trying to change our style of play this season. There is no sign of that happening because it is very difficult for it to happen.
We don't really have any alternatives to our big, physical players. Therefore we will continue to play this physical way.
It's all well and good trying to bring through young players who can play well with the ball at their feet, but they'll never be playing like that for the first team.
It is a massive problem we have and it's been selected for many years and under many different regimes of management.
The last manager we had who played the genuinely attractive football that would suit these young players coming through, was Dave Jones.
He left ten years ago.
If we want to compete to get back to the Premier League and stay there, then we have to change the style because football has moved on a lot from teams like ours.
How that is going to happen with our current squad, I have no idea.
It's just another reasons we need more footballing people on the board and advising all the non-footballing people we have.
Until that happens, we will always be a mid table Championship club who get into the play offs every now and then but don't have any sustained success.
As more years go on, this style will eventually be totally ineffective at this level and we will be in serious threat of being relegated at some point.
That won't be this season but we really do need to start work on it in the first team before it's too late.
These things will take time and I'm not sure the club actually know what they're doing.
pembroke allan wrote:We are going to waste the young talent coming coming through with this style of football because they are not big physical players... at end of this season we can lose around 8 players that have been conditioned to play the warnock and mick styles of play what an opportunity to move in another direction? But of course that means changing manager.... tan plus committee must have foresight to get in a good progressive manager to take youngsters and any new players forward with new financial landscape players will be cheaper that will help the situation, there are very few managers that won't want to take up such a challenge all it would need is patience from the board and especially the fans while things change as it wont be overnight task.
worcester_ccfc wrote:pembroke allan wrote:We are going to waste the young talent coming coming through with this style of football because they are not big physical players... at end of this season we can lose around 8 players that have been conditioned to play the warnock and mick styles of play what an opportunity to move in another direction? But of course that means changing manager.... tan plus committee must have foresight to get in a good progressive manager to take youngsters and any new players forward with new financial landscape players will be cheaper that will help the situation, there are very few managers that won't want to take up such a challenge all it would need is patience from the board and especially the fans while things change as it wont be overnight task.
We need to be starting work to get the first team to play a different style now, but it's just not happening.
To try and implement it suddenly just won't work.
We are going the other way and getting more physical.
This means that the promise of these young players will be wasted.
AfricanBluebird wrote:I have no sympathy for Mick.
Yes we are working under huge financial restrictions but I don't believe the board told Mick to have no wide players in the squad, zero pace and no creative spark... there were free transfers available and even lower league players who could have done a job in those positions.
Honestly, if I was a manager and told that they were allowing all our wide players to leave and ending up with zero pace or creativity, I would have walked.
So either Mick actually believes his bullshit - that we have a great squad and he is happy with it, or he is a coward and allowed the board to leave him with a very poor squad. Maybe its a combination of both but think about it.... we have NO natural wingers in the side... and we have two wing backs who are not natural wing backs. Mick can't even change formation much as 4 4 2 would never work.
AfricanBluebird wrote:Great post.
Under Warnock, the physical and direct games worked best when we had some pace and players with some guile and flair.
During our successful Warnock time we had a few players who could change a game - look at how many times Junior or Mendez-Laing scored a screamer or danced around a few defenders and set-up someone else.
Where it went wrong for Warnock is when re reverted to a system where those players were less effective. During his final half a season with us he really didn't even pretend he wanted to do anything else other than the team launching long balls into the box.
Since Mick has come it, especially in this last transfer window, he has stripped out any remaining flair and pace and frankly, it's not good enough on many levels.
Losing Junior, Whyte, Murphy, Wilson and Ojo - and replacing them all with a converted left back is in my opinion an indication that Mick is well at ease of lacking forward quality - there may be one or two sparks or glimmers of hope, but asking the youngsters to step in a fix a whole playing style and adding that flair, is really unfair. People say that we had no money so his hands were tied... if that is the case he should be experienced enough to know his tactics wouldn't work consistently and would need a change of approach.
Even if we bludgeon our way to the play offs the style of football will only ever deliver very short term success and honestly I doubt that we could even be close at the moment.
We needed just three extra players in the transfer window.. two forward plays - one wide and one central - players with some pace and guile and a left back.
Whether it is Micks failure or the boards, I think we can agree that those failures will cost us big time.
Blue78 wrote:AfricanBluebird wrote:Great post.
Under Warnock, the physical and direct games worked best when we had some pace and players with some guile and flair.
During our successful Warnock time we had a few players who could change a game - look at how many times Junior or Mendez-Laing scored a screamer or danced around a few defenders and set-up someone else.
Where it went wrong for Warnock is when re reverted to a system where those players were less effective. During his final half a season with us he really didn't even pretend he wanted to do anything else other than the team launching long balls into the box.
Since Mick has come it, especially in this last transfer window, he has stripped out any remaining flair and pace and frankly, it's not good enough on many levels.
Losing Junior, Whyte, Murphy, Wilson and Ojo - and replacing them all with a converted left back is in my opinion an indication that Mick is well at ease of lacking forward quality - there may be one or two sparks or glimmers of hope, but asking the youngsters to step in a fix a whole playing style and adding that flair, is really unfair. People say that we had no money so his hands were tied... if that is the case he should be experienced enough to know his tactics wouldn't work consistently and would need a change of approach.
Even if we bludgeon our way to the play offs the style of football will only ever deliver very short term success and honestly I doubt that we could even be close at the moment.
We needed just three extra players in the transfer window.. two forward plays - one wide and one central - players with some pace and guile and a left back.
Whether it is Micks failure or the boards, I think we can agree that those failures will cost us big time.
This is a great post.
I suspect the failure is both the board and Mick - no doubt that the board would have given a smaller budget, but it seems to have made Mick just dig in further to his tried and trusted route of ‘hit it up them’ and hope, rather than taking some risk on a different style.
I could make a case to say that maybe as in integrates the youngsters and (if) we get the likes of Tomlin and Giles back, we might see the style evolve - but last night was so bad, it’ll be more revolution than evolution. To balance that, the first 30 against Bristol City was some of the best football we had played in years.
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