One for the anti vaxxers

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

society has the freedom to do lots of things .. but dont because the vast majority are level headed

Would have to instal an app to read it so can’t be arsed Look I won’t even take the flu jab even though I qualify being my wife’s carer. Why ? Not really sure but deep down everything says no don’t do it. For me I want to know what I take. And I just won’t have it even though my wife does. That’s her choice I don’t influence her in my views or feelings.
But the new covid jab if it’s so safe why have they removed all liability taking this vaccine ?
And lastly if it wasn’t for the press and government and them shutting the country down all the time I wouldn’t know there was this new virus rampaging across the world. But fantastic news influenza is at an all time low (Ohh how surprising).
Just like influenza I will take my chances. But there are far far far bigger killers out there and they are being ignored or basically forgotten. Now be a good lad wear your mask and keep away from your family and friends and have your jab with no comeback if it causes a very nasty reaction.
Ps It’s just another divide and conquer exercise and tbh honest if people want to take it crack on that’s your choice if those that don’t want it that is our choice as in a so called free world it’s our choice what we put in our bodies.
If it was all good they would not have removed the liability clause and people wouldn’t be pressured into having it.

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

some swear by it...others have the same experience as yourself.... and people do and should be able to weigh things up and then make these decisions themselves without the Salem witch hunt going on in the background demanding , threatening and blackmailing.. ..... no doubt if i was 75 plus with a couple of underlying illnesses id be in the queue sharpish not over concerned if it causes cancer or the like in 10 years time...but there is no way my take on others taking it would change at all..

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

some swear by it...others have the same experience as yourself.... and people do and should be able to weigh things up and then make these decisions themselves without the Salem witch hunt going on in the background demanding , threatening and blackmailing.. ..... no doubt if i was 75 plus with a couple of underlying illnesses id be in the queue sharpish not over concerned if it causes cancer or the like in 10 years time...but there is no way my take on others taking it would change at all..

My mother had flu jab,and was in hospital for ten days,and in a very bad way!! She hasnt and will not have it again,her choice,plus she is 80 and says they can stick this new "rushed" vaccine up their own arses,I'll take my chances thanks.as responsible adults we as her kids,have tried to change her mind,as has her gp and practice nurse.but she says its her life,her choice! And i guess she is right,its personal choice,and whatever that choice is,whether its the one people agree with or not,its personsal,and nobody should be slated for"their choice"!!if people are happy to take a chance,on a poorly tested(time) and rushed through vaccine,let them,me? No thank you! Now where shall I hand myself in,to be locked away?? Better yet,just give us a bell and loudhaler,so I can warn others that I'm "unclean"

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

society has the freedom to do lots of things .. but dont because the vast majority are level headed

On this one I think those that want to be vaccinated have it.

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

some swear by it...others have the same experience as yourself.... and people do and should be able to weigh things up and then make these decisions themselves without the Salem witch hunt going on in the background demanding , threatening and blackmailing.. ..... no doubt if i was 75 plus with a couple of underlying illnesses id be in the queue sharpish not over concerned if it causes cancer or the like in 10 years time...but there is no way my take on others taking it would change at all..

My mother had flu jab,and was in hospital for ten days,and in a very bad way!! She hasnt and will not have it again,her choice,plus she is 80 and says they can stick this new "rushed" vaccine up their own arses,I'll take my chances thanks.as responsible adults we as her kids,have tried to change her mind,as has her gp and practice nurse.but she says its her life,her choice! And i guess she is right,its personal choice,and whatever that choice is,whether its the one people agree with or not,its personsal,and nobody should be slated for"their choice"!!if people are happy to take a chance,on a poorly tested(time) and rushed through vaccine,let them,me? No thank you! Now where shall I hand myself in,to be locked away?? Better yet,just give us a bell and loudhaler,so I can warn others that I'm "unclean"

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

some swear by it...others have the same experience as yourself.... and people do and should be able to weigh things up and then make these decisions themselves without the Salem witch hunt going on in the background demanding , threatening and blackmailing.. ..... no doubt if i was 75 plus with a couple of underlying illnesses id be in the queue sharpish not over concerned if it causes cancer or the like in 10 years time...but there is no way my take on others taking it would change at all..

My mother had flu jab,and was in hospital for ten days,and in a very bad way!! She hasnt and will not have it again,her choice,plus she is 80 and says they can stick this new "rushed" vaccine up their own arses,I'll take my chances thanks.as responsible adults we as her kids,have tried to change her mind,as has her gp and practice nurse.but she says its her life,her choice! And i guess she is right,its personal choice,and whatever that choice is,whether its the one people agree with or not,its personsal,and nobody should be slated for"their choice"!!if people are happy to take a chance,on a poorly tested(time) and rushed through vaccine,let them,me? No thank you! Now where shall I hand myself in,to be locked away?? Better yet,just give us a bell and loudhaler,so I can warn others that I'm "unclean"

i dont really think its going to come to that mate, the hang em flog em bunch are a very small minority... most people believe in freedom of choice and civil liberties....

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

I've had the flu jab this year and last, it's nothing to worry about it didn't affect me in any way, better than the flu, I had to have a couple of lemsips last time I had that !!!

As a so called vulnerable adult, I get pressured to have a yearly flu jab. Twice I've been really ill afterwards.

No more.

It could have been a coincidence, people often get ill in the winter, but for most people who feel ill after a vaccine, I think it's psychosomatic.


In the old days before internet bollocks, we all had the BCG and were out playing without a thought that it could make us ill, so none of us felt ill.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

no mate.....LUCKILY people like this woman and millions of others worked right through and kept the country going....

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

That is a really good read, and explains the points well for those that haven't been researching the information on vaccines

I find it frustrating that many of the people that hate lockdowns and say they are concerned about the economical effects, the health issues like mental health, suicides and delays in cancer treatment, and all the other terrible side effects of lockdowns, and then say but I'm not prepared to take the vaccine to end them

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

Society is made of individuals. Remove the liberty of the individual, you remove the freedom of a society.

Our society is based on the fundamental concept of negative vs. positive rights, which protect the sanctity of individual freedoms.

You can argue for the removal of those rights by all means, but you cant do so in the name of a society that has freedom to act, because in doing so it instantly ceases to be a free society.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

Society is made of individuals. Remove the liberty of the individual, you remove the freedom of a society.

Our society is based on the fundamental concept of negative vs. positive rights, which protect the sanctity of individual freedoms.

You can argue for the removal of those rights by all means, but you cant do so in the name of a society that has freedom to act, because in doing so it instantly ceases to be a free society.

A pipe dreamers and an over simplistic view.Soz if you find that offensive but I can't think of a Nation thats a working example of what your saying.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

Society is made of individuals. Remove the liberty of the individual, you remove the freedom of a society.

Our society is based on the fundamental concept of negative vs. positive rights, which protect the sanctity of individual freedoms.

You can argue for the removal of those rights by all means, but you cant do so in the name of a society that has freedom to act, because in doing so it instantly ceases to be a free society.

A pipe dreamers and an over simplistic view.Soz if you find that offensive but I can't think of a Nation thats a working example of what your saying.

if we did not have civil liberties and freedom in our society we wouldnt be having them taken off us..
the pipedream is the gestapo boys who believe we should have a system where you can shit on people from a great height who have kept our health service / care homes/ / supplies in general running because they think differently to them...

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

That is a really good read, and explains the points well for those that haven't been researching the information on vaccines

I find it frustrating that many of the people that hate lockdowns and say they are concerned about the economical effects, the health issues like mental health, suicides and delays in cancer treatment, and all the other terrible side effects of lockdowns, and then say but I'm not prepared to take the vaccine to end them

the frustration is the sort of people that are terrified beyond reason over covid would also be the ones most afraid about taking a rushed vaccine this time last year... their reason for now being unreasonable about this is that they are more unreasonable about that......and its the lesser of 2 evils.... November 2019..nobody but nobody would be suggesting these vaccines were safe or legal let alone encouraging people to take them...
as for people mentioning stats... seriously ? meaningful stats re drugs are based on large amounts of info taken over a length of time..
bottom line... seems manufacturers will be exempt from liability...... why ?

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

That is a really good read, and explains the points well for those that haven't been researching the information on vaccines

I find it frustrating that many of the people that hate lockdowns and say they are concerned about the economical effects, the health issues like mental health, suicides and delays in cancer treatment, and all the other terrible side effects of lockdowns, and then say but I'm not prepared to take the vaccine to end them

the frustration is the sort of people that are terrified beyond reason over covid would also be the ones most afraid about taking a rushed vaccine this time last year... their reason for now being unreasonable about this is that they are more unreasonable about that......and its the lesser of 2 evils.... November 2019..nobody but nobody would be suggesting these vaccines were safe or legal let alone encouraging people to take them...
as for people mentioning stats... seriously ? meaningful stats re drugs are based on large amounts of info taken over a length of time..
bottom line... seems manufacturers will be exempt from liability...... why ?

God knows what you are trying to say?

People who will take a vaccine for a new virus wouldn't take one last year when the virus hadn't even been created?

How can you take a vaccine for a virus that doesn't exist yet but might appear in the future, I said the best brains in the World were working on it but even they can't make vaccines for not yet developed vaccines

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

That is a really good read, and explains the points well for those that haven't been researching the information on vaccines

I find it frustrating that many of the people that hate lockdowns and say they are concerned about the economical effects, the health issues like mental health, suicides and delays in cancer treatment, and all the other terrible side effects of lockdowns, and then say but I'm not prepared to take the vaccine to end them

the frustration is the sort of people that are terrified beyond reason over covid would also be the ones most afraid about taking a rushed vaccine this time last year... their reason for now being unreasonable about this is that they are more unreasonable about that......and its the lesser of 2 evils.... November 2019..nobody but nobody would be suggesting these vaccines were safe or legal let alone encouraging people to take them...
as for people mentioning stats... seriously ? meaningful stats re drugs are based on large amounts of info taken over a length of time..
bottom line... seems manufacturers will be exempt from liability...... why ?

Who is terrified beyond belief?

The people who think a vaccine is a good idea mostly seem to be rational sensible people that see this as a way out of lockdowns and are prepared to do something to get out of them?

They believe doctors and the health profession and not people on the internet or some idiot in the pub.

The only people who appear scared are people who are scared to take a vaccine, and that's their prerogative but don't expect the government to stop lockdowns and measures until a sufficient number of rational people have built immunity either via catching it or via vaccines.

There are two types of anti vaxxers.

Those that are genuinely scared which is fine and those that won’t take it.

Either way they won’t get the freedoms others do. It’s an issue of health nothing more.

There are two types of anti vaxxers.

Those that are genuinely scared which is fine and those that won’t take it.

Either way they won’t get the freedoms others do. It’s an issue of health nothing more.

Agreed and they seem to complain the most about lockdowns but won't help to eliminate them?

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

That is a really good read, and explains the points well for those that haven't been researching the information on vaccines

I find it frustrating that many of the people that hate lockdowns and say they are concerned about the economical effects, the health issues like mental health, suicides and delays in cancer treatment, and all the other terrible side effects of lockdowns, and then say but I'm not prepared to take the vaccine to end them

the frustration is the sort of people that are terrified beyond reason over covid would also be the ones most afraid about taking a rushed vaccine this time last year... their reason for now being unreasonable about this is that they are more unreasonable about that......and its the lesser of 2 evils.... November 2019..nobody but nobody would be suggesting these vaccines were safe or legal let alone encouraging people to take them...
as for people mentioning stats... seriously ? meaningful stats re drugs are based on large amounts of info taken over a length of time..
bottom line... seems manufacturers will be exempt from liability...... why ?

God knows what you are trying to say?

People who will take a vaccine for a new virus wouldn't take one last year when the virus hadn't even been created?

How can you take a vaccine for a virus that doesn't exist yet but might appear in the future, I said the best brains in the World were working on it but even they can't make vaccines for not yet developed vaccines

its not that you did not understand...more a case of not liking the truth much..

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

if left unchecked it will ultimately wipe out mankind...

jesus.. what cult are you in ?

Just have the bloody vaccination and help save both your own lives and those of others...

Many of those dying, you will never meet but that alone doesn't make it okay to be complicit in their deaths through ignorance and/or inaction when all the science is backing the vaccine

I know there's no shame amongst many on here (some of you are first year students ignoring the 'Covid' rules with incredible contempt) but get a grip and do the decent thing; probably for the first time in your short lives!