So do you still think it’s genuine ?

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

I don't get the conspiracy theory stuff but surely this is good news ?

There are enough people who think this is harmless and won't touch them even if they had it, so where's the risk ? The quicker we can vaccinate those who want it the better

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

ah right...you get an injection of stuff they THINK might stop covid...then give you this ultra dangerous virus that amounts to certain death to see if the injection works
maybe the government should advertise for guinea pigs on here...plenty been screaming out for this...

Why on earth would they have to inject the virus into people who don't have it when apparently there are thousands of people who are already infected with the virus having tested positive?

Why not try the vaccine on those people?

And no doubt when these people without it are given the virus their numbers will be added to the number of new infections reported on the day they are injected with it. If it wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable.

Why on earth would they have to inject the virus into people who don't have it when apparently there are thousands of people who are already infected with the virus having tested positive?

Why not try the vaccine on those people?

And no doubt when these people without it are given the virus their numbers will be added to the number of new infections reported on the day they are injected with it. If it wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable.

Probably they want to give the vaccine first and then the virus to see if the vaccine prevents the virus taking hold, I think.

Why on earth would they have to inject the virus into people who don't have it when apparently there are thousands of people who are already infected with the virus having tested positive?

Why not try the vaccine on those people?

And no doubt when these people without it are given the virus their numbers will be added to the number of new infections reported on the day they are injected with it. If it wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable.

It's to see if the vaccine stops people getting it, a bit late when they already have it.

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

hmmm we'll see, I predict no one will die or have anything worse than a cold, and the vaccine will prove successful, real good news if correct

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

Typo - It should have read.

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful vaccine for the virus outweigh the risks

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's causing absolute chaos, I think the measures are still to stop the virus spiralling out of control and overwhelming the NHS. Boris and Sunak want to keep as much open as they can, Drakeford doesn't seem to value the economy prioritising getting the lowest level of deaths in the UK?

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's causing absolute chaos, I think the measures are still to stop the virus spiralling out of control and overwhelming the NHS. Boris and Sunak want to keep as much open as they can, Drakeford doesn't seem to value the economy prioritising getting the lowest level of deaths in the UK?

The NHS has not been overwhelmed chief. Hospitals more or less empty and still are

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's causing absolute chaos, I think the measures are still to stop the virus spiralling out of control and overwhelming the NHS. Boris and Sunak want to keep as much open as they can, Drakeford doesn't seem to value the economy prioritising getting the lowest level of deaths in the UK?

its never really been about the economy for me...although crashing the economy will inevitably cause more illness and death than a hundred covid viruses ever will...its always been emptying hospitals, cancelling treatments/. appointments /diagnosis.., making the last months of hundreds of thousands of peoples lives miserable.. for something that makes a lot less people ill than the flu does and that will increase our yearly deaths from one percent ..to one point one percent of the population.. and to top it all the point one percent increase are generally very ill already.. not that they do not matter but this is 100% a trade off which ever way you look at it and at the moment people are happy for someone that literally does not know what day it is and has nappy changes over people that could have decades added to their lives with a decent quality of life... its sick tbh...

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's causing absolute chaos, I think the measures are still to stop the virus spiralling out of control and overwhelming the NHS. Boris and Sunak want to keep as much open as they can, Drakeford doesn't seem to value the economy prioritising getting the lowest level of deaths in the UK?

The NHS has not been overwhelmed chief. Hospitals more or less empty and still are

I agree in Wales we are not too bad, I think there has been an overaction.

Up North, without measures, they would soon be unable to cope.

Van-Tam is on TV now saying that he feels localised restrictions are better to ensure hospitals in areas like Manchester don't get overwhelmed, but that they don't need tier-three restrictions in places like the South West.

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's causing absolute chaos, I think the measures are still to stop the virus spiralling out of control and overwhelming the NHS. Boris and Sunak want to keep as much open as they can, Drakeford doesn't seem to value the economy prioritising getting the lowest level of deaths in the UK?

its never really been about the economy for me...although crashing the economy will inevitably cause more illness and death than a hundred covid viruses ever will...its always been emptying hospitals, cancelling treatments/. appointments /diagnosis.., making the last months of hundreds of thousands of peoples lives miserable.. for something that makes a lot less people ill than the flu does and that will increase our yearly deaths from one percent ..to one point one percent of the population.. and to top it all the point one percent increase are generally very ill already.. not that they do not matter but this is 100% a trade off which ever way you look at it and at the moment people are happy for someone that literally does not know what day it is and has nappy changes over people that could have decades added to their lives with a decent quality of life... its sick tbh...

Again I agree but if you have no measures, covid will increase, the beds will fill and people with cancer will have to wait as there are no beds to treat them? So if you want the beds empty for standard illness's we can't let covid rip?

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

It’s deadly we are told. To infect anyone would be suicide surely ?

it kills young people without existing illnesses.... so i take my hat off to anyone taking on this kamikaze mission.. VCs all round i think...

A tiny percentage of young fit healthy people, the advantages of a successful virus outweigh the risks

yes it kills a tiny percentage , which has certainly not been the message being pumped out , and suddenly the word outweigh has emerged from hibernation.... yes mate the damage to our all round health. our NHS, our economy and in avoidable deaths should outweigh extending the lives of mostly very old very weak people by a few months... even if they have managed that at all which at best is extremely dubious...

I agree with a lot of what you say, it's causing absolute chaos, I think the measures are still to stop the virus spiralling out of control and overwhelming the NHS. Boris and Sunak want to keep as much open as they can, Drakeford doesn't seem to value the economy prioritising getting the lowest level of deaths in the UK?

The NHS has not been overwhelmed chief. Hospitals more or less empty and still are

I agree in Wales we are not too bad, I think there has been an overaction.

Up North, without measures, they would soon be unable to cope.

Van-Tam is on TV now saying that he feels localised restrictions are better to ensure hospitals in areas like Manchester don't get overwhelmed, but that they don't need tier-three restrictions in places like the South West.

They just said hospital levels in Manchester without tougher measures will reach the height of last April/May in 2 weeks time!

A friend of mine is an ambulance dispatcher and he told me that the situation in South Wales is far, far worse than we are being told. The Royal Glamorgan hospital closing has put enormous pressure on the Heath in Cardiff and Princess of Wales in Bridgend with both at breaking point. He has no reason to make that sort of story up... As much as we don't want this lockdown again, and I'm extremely pissed off as having to self isolate after coming back from an area that had three cases yesterday, it seems that Drakeford has to do something to try and contain it.

The "firebreak" is a diversion so not to show the NHS in Wales which is totally devolved as the worse in the UK.....

Everything else is a ruse.

A friend of mine is an ambulance dispatcher and he told me that the situation in South Wales is far, far worse than we are being told. The Royal Glamorgan hospital closing has put enormous pressure on the Heath in Cardiff and Princess of Wales in Bridgend with both at breaking point. He has no reason to make that sort of story up... As much as we don't want this lockdown again, and I'm extremely pissed off as having to self isolate after coming back from an area that had three cases yesterday, it seems that Drakeford has to do something to try and contain it.

When my dad was ill and ambulance called they told my mum that the hospital was at bursting point and A&E was full and they had a giant tent in the car park Which was also full. They persuaded my mum that my dad would be better being treated at home.
Next morning after a fall my mum called another ambulance and they came and said my dad needs to go into hospital.
My mum said about the hospital being full and they said that’s not true and in fact it was very quiet.
My dad went straight to ICU no wait and then I found out there Was a tent in the car park but it has never been used.
Also one paramedic told someone the the Prince Charles hospital was crammed with 60.000 people.
Well it dose t hold 60.000 so yeah why would they lie ?
A few hospitals are busy but mainly they are deserted. So do I believe that when again we are told the hospitals are bursting.
Go on sense says they are lying again. Next to no deaths even the made up Covid recorded deaths.

A friend of mine is an ambulance dispatcher and he told me that the situation in South Wales is far, far worse than we are being told. The Royal Glamorgan hospital closing has put enormous pressure on the Heath in Cardiff and Princess of Wales in Bridgend with both at breaking point. He has no reason to make that sort of story up... As much as we don't want this lockdown again, and I'm extremely pissed off as having to self isolate after coming back from an area that had three cases yesterday, it seems that Drakeford has to do something to try and contain it.

When my dad was ill and ambulance called they told my mum that the hospital was at bursting point and A&E was full and they had a giant tent in the car park Which was also full. They persuaded my mum that my dad would be better being treated at home.
Next morning after a fall my mum called another ambulance and they came and said my dad needs to go into hospital.
My mum said about the hospital being full and they said that’s not true and in fact it was very quiet.
My dad went straight to ICU no wait and then I found out there Was a tent in the car park but it has never been used.
Also one paramedic told someone the the Prince Charles hospital was crammed with 60.000 people.
Well it dose t hold 60.000 so yeah why would they lie ?
A few hospitals are busy but mainly they are deserted. So do I believe that when again we are told the hospitals are bursting.
Go on sense says they are lying again. Next to no deaths even the made up Covid recorded deaths.

My friend is not prone to making things up and I have known him a very long time. His job is to send ambulances for those who need them; he does not take this responsibility lightly and if he tells me with his daily knowledge of the situation that the system is on the verge of collapse then I believe him as he has no agenda either way.

The Heath is about 30% full....most in and out in a few days.

A friend of mine is an ambulance dispatcher and he told me that the situation in South Wales is far, far worse than we are being told. The Royal Glamorgan hospital closing has put enormous pressure on the Heath in Cardiff and Princess of Wales in Bridgend with both at breaking point. He has no reason to make that sort of story up... As much as we don't want this lockdown again, and I'm extremely pissed off as having to self isolate after coming back from an area that had three cases yesterday, it seems that Drakeford has to do something to try and contain it.

they should be almost at breaking point and should have been for the whole year and have not been...its a scandal and 100% cost people who were not covid their lives ..

our bed occupancy was running at 90% plus in Jan and early Feb... dropped into the 30 odd percent late Feb March and April during the panic and has steadily increased back towards normal since...

A friend of mine is an ambulance dispatcher and he told me that the situation in South Wales is far, far worse than we are being told. The Royal Glamorgan hospital closing has put enormous pressure on the Heath in Cardiff and Princess of Wales in Bridgend with both at breaking point. He has no reason to make that sort of story up... As much as we don't want this lockdown again, and I'm extremely pissed off as having to self isolate after coming back from an area that had three cases yesterday, it seems that Drakeford has to do something to try and contain it.

When my dad was ill and ambulance called they told my mum that the hospital was at bursting point and A&E was full and they had a giant tent in the car park Which was also full. They persuaded my mum that my dad would be better being treated at home.
Next morning after a fall my mum called another ambulance and they came and said my dad needs to go into hospital.
My mum said about the hospital being full and they said that’s not true and in fact it was very quiet.
My dad went straight to ICU no wait and then I found out there Was a tent in the car park but it has never been used.
Also one paramedic told someone the the Prince Charles hospital was crammed with 60.000 people.
Well it dose t hold 60.000 so yeah why would they lie ?
A few hospitals are busy but mainly they are deserted. So do I believe that when again we are told the hospitals are bursting.
Go on sense says they are lying again. Next to no deaths even the made up Covid recorded deaths.

Reading between the lines the paramedic lied because he thought treatment in the hospital was totally unnecessary, rather than upset an old couple telling them the truth he lied, still very bad but you can see he may have had good intentions.

The "firebreak" is a diversion so not to show the NHS in Wales which is totally devolved as the worse in the UK.....

Everything else is a ruse.

Good theory, I've no idea if it's correct, but sounds very logical to me?

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

There are plenty of sex offenders and paedos about, so why not experiment on them? No one would give a sh1t if they all died would they?

We are being put into lockdown because we are being told To many people are being infected with Covid19.
So now they are looking at volunteers to deliberately infect to test out vaccines.
Sorry but alarm bells ringing now ?
http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-u ... 9-12108983

Because they don't think the people testing it out will get it?

Obviously, they need to do some live testing, this will speed the process up, rather than waiting for them to catch it in tesco or wherever!

obviously .....spend months telling everyone its the plague plus then ask for volunteers to infect... what if all the volunteers die ffs as it can kill anyone...

There are plenty of sex offenders and paedos about, so why not experiment on them? No one would give a sh1t if they all died would they?

i was being sarcastic because its the absolute nonsense that been put out there , the whole thing is ridiculous...of course there is no chance anyone is going to die in these trials unless the vacine kills them over time