Disgusting and has no place in Football

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Go on then, pick any book you want and I'll read it. Then I'll do what you obviously do and read a book with an opposing view to make sure I get both sides before making up my mind.

The funny thing about your comment is literally the last books(s) I bought which arrived a day or so ago was Das Kapital Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 3b.

I've read it many times before anyway, but it was a good deal on a relatively early print run (1921) in German at a very good price, and while I abhor Marx's ideas, I respect the impact of that book so it is a piece of history. Besides old books look and smell great.

But yes that is exactly what I do. I read both sides of an argument, make my mind up and go from there. So yes, you are absolutely spot on that is exactly what I do.

See after all these threads your finally starting to understand how I approach things. Maybe my good influence is slowly rubbing off on you

With regards to your request, while I suspect you might not actually have wanted a suggestion(s), I'll take it at face value and so in the spirit of good faith, some good reading is listed below that can help you navigate your way through the culture war you have leapt blindly into with both feet.

Besides, it's useful information for anyone else who wants to know more about political philosophy.

So my belief is if you actually do want to read something that can improve your understanding of modern politics then all the answers lie in the past.

All of the following are important reads and most likely you can find a PDF version of them fairly easily I'd imagine.

On Liberty/Utilitarianism - JS Mill
Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
The Republic - Plato
Meditations - Marcus Aurelius
Mein Kampf - Hitler
Das Kapital - Karl Marx
Gulag Archepelogo Vol1 - Stolychenitzen
Two Treatises of Government - John Locke
Groundwork for the metaphysics of Morals - Emmanuel Kant
Phemonology of Spirit - Hegel
Beyond Good and Evil - Frederick Nietzsche
The Poilitical Writings of John Adams


A mix of these would give you a good grounding on modern politics because all we are seeing in the world today is a re-run of the state collectivism (see Marx/Hitler) vs individual liberty (see Mill/Locke/Adams/Kant) ethos that underpinned the major conflicts of the 20th Century.

Aurelius and Plato offer some good subtext to the foundations of Western philosphy. I'd put the Bible in there for the same reasons but realistically very few people would take the time to read the Bible properly.

Darwin & Hegel were influences on both Marx and Hitler so offer important context. Nietzsche's influence is felt on Mein Kampf and was a factor in where Stalinism and Nazism diverge. (An important point is that, that doesn't mean that Nietzsche is accountable for Nazism though)

The Gulag Archepelago is simply the best first-hand documentation of what happens when Socialism is implemented hands down. Read that and build a then try to build a solid case for socialism. Honestly, this whole conversation should have ended when that book was published and won the Nobel Prize for literature.

Utimately, where we are today - why the culture war that is raging, can be boiled down to exactly the same arguments as the 1930s. They are being made with different players on different pitches, but strip it all down it is exactly the same.

Finally, the Malcolm Pryce books are great fiction, nothing to do with politics but wonderfully surreal, Welsh-noir.

Not doubting these are good and informative reads BUT the following are also a cracking read ...

Puckoon - Spike Milligan

The Bible according to Spike Milligan

All his autobiographical novels.

Love me a bit of Spike. Apparently on his gravestone it reads 'I told you I was ill' but in Irish Gaelic so it looks all classy.

I know you didn't expressively say it but you did reply with "It is more than just this one post" which I read as you agreeing with it at least.

I can say that people on this board are brainwashed the opposite way regards to "this pc nonsense" and that is what's causing the divisions. You can always predict what people would be on what side if you saw the title 'brexit', 'trump' or 'blm' etc. And I'm not saying I'm not one of them but to only call me brainwashed is naive.

You talk about being naive (definition: "of a person or action showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.") yet you have readily admitted poor judgement my stating I should reply on behalf of someone else even though you had no idea whether that was my opinion or not

I have based my opinion that you are brainwashed on your rigid ultra left position on race i.e. the fault is always with the white population and the black population never does anything wrong even if their actions could be offensive or divisive such as forcing every player to take the knee prior to kick off and/or doing black power salutes.

If I saw something wrong which involved a black person being mistreated e.g. George Floyd's death then I have no problem in saying that death was wrong and the 'white' police officer responsible should be charged with murder and spend the rest of his life in jail. That's because I am objective and judge each situation on the circumstances and not dogma. Alternatively you have never moved from your rigid ultra left stance (i.e. you are not objective and follow the dogma) so with experience, good judgement and wisdom I can state you are brainwashed.

I know you didn't expressively say it but you did reply with "It is more than just this one post" which I read as you agreeing with it at least.

I can say that people on this board are brainwashed the opposite way regards to "this pc nonsense" and that is what's causing the divisions. You can always predict what people would be on what side if you saw the title 'brexit', 'trump' or 'blm' etc. And I'm not saying I'm not one of them but to only call me brainwashed is naive.

You talk about being naive (definition: "of a person or action showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.") yet you have readily admitted poor judgement my stating I should reply on behalf of someone else even though you had no idea whether that was my opinion or not

I have based my opinion that you are brainwashed on your rigid ultra left position on race i.e. the fault is always with the white population and the black population never does anything wrong even if their actions could be offensive or divisive such as forcing every player to take the knee prior to kick off and/or doing black power salutes.

If I saw something wrong which involved a black person being mistreated e.g. George Floyd's death then I have no problem in saying that death was wrong and the 'white' police officer responsible should be charged with murder and spend the rest of his life in jail. That's because I am objective and judge each situation on the circumstances and not dogma. Alternatively you have never moved from your rigid ultra left stance (i.e. you are not objective and follow the dogma) so with experience, good judgement and wisdom I can state you are brainwashed.

Spot on Tony, well said

I know you didn't expressively say it but you did reply with "It is more than just this one post" which I read as you agreeing with it at least.

I can say that people on this board are brainwashed the opposite way regards to "this pc nonsense" and that is what's causing the divisions. You can always predict what people would be on what side if you saw the title 'brexit', 'trump' or 'blm' etc. And I'm not saying I'm not one of them but to only call me brainwashed is naive.

You talk about being naive (definition: "of a person or action showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.") yet you have readily admitted poor judgement my stating I should reply on behalf of someone else even though you had no idea whether that was my opinion or not

I have based my opinion that you are brainwashed on your rigid ultra left position on race i.e. the fault is always with the white population and the black population never does anything wrong even if their actions could be offensive or divisive such as forcing every player to take the knee prior to kick off and/or doing black power salutes.

If I saw something wrong which involved a black person being mistreated e.g. George Floyd's death then I have no problem in saying that death was wrong and the 'white' police officer responsible should be charged with murder and spend the rest of his life in jail. That's because I am objective and judge each situation on the circumstances and not dogma. Alternatively you have never moved from your rigid ultra left stance (i.e. you are not objective and follow the dogma) so with experience, good judgement and wisdom I can state you are brainwashed.

"yet you have readily admitted poor judgement my stating I should reply on behalf of someone else even though you had no idea whether that was my opinion or not". Well judgement is the ability to make a good guess on something and the tone and wording of your original message to me does make it sound like it was at least broadly your opinion.

"the fault is always with the white population and the black population never does anything wrong". Literally never said that. I think it might be you who is 'brainwashed' against me.

Still laughable that all these comments about me being anti democracy, thinking black people can't do wrong, being brainwashed, etc, etc have come from me telling the original poster to phone the police. That's brainwashed for you.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Go on then, pick any book you want and I'll read it. Then I'll do what you obviously do and read a book with an opposing view to make sure I get both sides before making up my mind.

The funny thing about your comment is literally the last books(s) I bought which arrived a day or so ago was Das Kapital Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 3b.

I've read it many times before anyway, but it was a good deal on a relatively early print run (1921) in German at a very good price, and while I abhor Marx's ideas, I respect the impact of that book so it is a piece of history. Besides old books look and smell great.

But yes that is exactly what I do. I read both sides of an argument, make my mind up and go from there. So yes, you are absolutely spot on that is exactly what I do.

See after all these threads your finally starting to understand how I approach things. Maybe my good influence is slowly rubbing off on you

With regards to your request, while I suspect you might not actually have wanted a suggestion(s), I'll take it at face value and so in the spirit of good faith, some good reading is listed below that can help you navigate your way through the culture war you have leapt blindly into with both feet.

Besides, it's useful information for anyone else who wants to know more about political philosophy.

So my belief is if you actually do want to read something that can improve your understanding of modern politics then all the answers lie in the past.

All of the following are important reads and most likely you can find a PDF version of them fairly easily I'd imagine.

On Liberty/Utilitarianism - JS Mill
Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
The Republic - Plato
Meditations - Marcus Aurelius
Mein Kampf - Hitler
Das Kapital - Karl Marx
Gulag Archepelogo Vol1 - Stolychenitzen
Two Treatises of Government - John Locke
Groundwork for the metaphysics of Morals - Emmanuel Kant
Phemonology of Spirit - Hegel
Beyond Good and Evil - Frederick Nietzsche
The Poilitical Writings of John Adams


A mix of these would give you a good grounding on modern politics because all we are seeing in the world today is a re-run of the state collectivism (see Marx/Hitler) vs individual liberty (see Mill/Locke/Adams/Kant) ethos that underpinned the major conflicts of the 20th Century.

Aurelius and Plato offer some good subtext to the foundations of Western philosphy. I'd put the Bible in there for the same reasons but realistically very few people would take the time to read the Bible properly.

Darwin & Hegel were influences on both Marx and Hitler so offer important context. Nietzsche's influence is felt on Mein Kampf and was a factor in where Stalinism and Nazism diverge. (An important point is that, that doesn't mean that Nietzsche is accountable for Nazism though)

The Gulag Archepelago is simply the best first-hand documentation of what happens when Socialism is implemented hands down. Read that and build a then try to build a solid case for socialism. Honestly, this whole conversation should have ended when that book was published and won the Nobel Prize for literature.

Utimately, where we are today - why the culture war that is raging, can be boiled down to exactly the same arguments as the 1930s. They are being made with different players on different pitches, but strip it all down it is exactly the same.

Finally, the Malcolm Pryce books are great fiction, nothing to do with politics but wonderfully surreal, Welsh-noir.

Not doubting these are good and informative reads BUT the following are also a cracking read ...

Puckoon - Spike Milligan

The Bible according to Spike Milligan

All his autobiographical novels.

Went round town at lunch and couldn't find any (although it's unsurprising that mein kampf wasn't in any charity shops). Heading into the city later this week so will have a look then. I'm a slow reader and am currently reading a book so I'll just update this in about 4 months when I've actually finished one.

You sound triggered by something that stands for equality. Comparing it to a Nazi salute just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject.

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

Boring

and Trump has got the flu

honestly do not get the digs about flu..
if he is critical with flu, covid , ebola or anything else it makes little difference. likewise if its a mild infection of any of them..
the idea that death by one somehow makes you less dead is bonkers..

He wouldn't be in hospital if it was flu would he, he's probably had a flu jab anyway and if it was, he would be back in work by now.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

True

On Liberty/Utilitarianism - JS Mill
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/34901/34 ... 4901-h.htm

Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... krKZBwky40

The Republic - Plato
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1924307769

Meditations - Marcus Aurelius
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... JExgDJSQe6

Mein Kampf - Hitler
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... TKscs1S_EP

Das Kapital - Karl Marx
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/An ... ridged.pdf

Gulag Archepelogo Vol1 - Stolychenitzen
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1npBUi2XYc

Two Treatises of Government - John Locke
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... Af612Kb_0o

Groundwork for the metaphysics of Morals - Emmanuel Kant
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... K5ClrQQn3s

Phemonology of Spirit - Hegel
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... LRNURc7bXM

Beyond Good and Evil - Frederick Nietzsche
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1924006125

The Poilitical Writings of John Adams
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1924095471

Went round town at lunch and couldn't find any (although it's unsurprising that mein kampf wasn't in any charity shops). Heading into the city later this week so will have a look then. I'm a slow reader and am currently reading a book so I'll just update this in about 4 months when I've actually finished one.

Fairplay for looking. We may disagree on most things, but I'll never criticize someone who is genuinely open to learning more and see the other side of an equation regardless of their previous positions and personal conflicts i've held with them.

Foe the record, I'll always fight my corner when needed. I'll always call out beyond the pale behaviour if its needed. However, I always prefer reasoned discussion over petty bickering and name calling.

If you cant find them, links to PDFs for each is above. Not quite the same as holding the book in your hands but a lot of great education for free.

one last thing read the Gulag Archepelogo first.

Grow up

Tbh you've been saying that since June and are still here. All talk and no action I think.

Am on the message board that’s all. Those that are saying boring and don’t care would be up in arms if the players were doing Nazi salutes. Hypocrites spring to mind

I can’t believe what I’m reading. Some of the most uneducated tripe I’ve ever read in fact.

“I won’t be coming back until these players are gone”.

Good. The majority of us, nor the club couldn’t give a flying f*ck. If you think the players & football using this gesture only to make a stand, to fight racism, and fight for equality is anything the same as Nazi Germany, you need your head looked at.

I think he may be proposing that division by race is not the way forward. But don’t believe what you’re reading, because you’ve settled on that already..

Tbh you've been saying that since June and are still here. All talk and no action I think.

Am on the message board that’s all. Those that are saying boring and don’t care would be up in arms if the players were doing Nazi salutes. Hypocrites spring to mind

I can’t believe what I’m reading. Some of the most uneducated tripe I’ve ever read in fact.

“I won’t be coming back until these players are gone”.

Good. The majority of us, nor the club couldn’t give a flying f*ck. If you think the players & football using this gesture only to make a stand, to fight racism, and fight for equality is anything the same as Nazi Germany, you need your head looked at.

Both are supremacist and if you don’t understand that you need you’re head read

You sound triggered by something that stands for equality. Comparing it to a Nazi salute just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject.

BLM and black power salute has nothing to do with equality your the one with no knowledge its designed to be devisive
and is definitely racist just like puts people intoi the bame or poc groups or Hispanic for that matter.
whats this new ideology that lump all white people together ?
I have much more kinship with my british black relatives or friends than any French or scadinavians for instance
The progressive left are now the new racists putting people in tribes in certainly backwards and a complete
regressive move.

If you cant see putting all white into one group and all others into another is nothing more than pure division you are truly indoctrinated with this sickness,

Tbh you've been saying that since June and are still here. All talk and no action I think.

Am on the message board that’s all. Those that are saying boring and don’t care would be up in arms if the players were doing Nazi salutes. Hypocrites spring to mind

I can’t believe what I’m reading. Some of the most uneducated tripe I’ve ever read in fact.

“I won’t be coming back until these players are gone”.

Good. The majority of us, nor the club couldn’t give a flying f*ck. If you think the players & football using this gesture only to make a stand, to fight racism, and fight for equality is anything the same as Nazi Germany, you need your head looked at.

In my experience Black or BAME people are not one homogenous mass, they are as diverse socially and politically as any other ethnic groups. BLM are an extreme left political group closely linked to the Democrats and a mob called the Stop Trump Alliance consequently IMO showing support for them is a political act and has no place on a sports field. I honestly believe BLM/ANTIFA have don considerable harm to our society and set race relations back decades.

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

You could claim exactly the same for the Nazi Salute

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

You could claim exactly the same for the Nazi Salute

It would help your case if you elaborated a bit because in a broad sense yes, both symbols were adopted from a different origin and were/used to unite people behind a common cause. But then using such broad language you can say the Ayatollah also falls into that category.

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

do you think the ordinary German people raising they right arms and saying sieg heil in the mid 30s thought they were supporting a regime that would ultimately try to wipe out a race and start a world war ?
of course no footballers have come out and said they support black supremacy just like those Germans would not have supported what is now a horrible history... but if you could go back in time to Germany pre war .knowing what you know.would you have your right arm in the air or would you be discouraging it and telling those around you what it leads to.?
and the ayatollah ? are you serious..its a bit of fun ,no more,

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

We know your thick but I for one will fight the stated BLM worldview.

The mao/Marxist left have invented the following bullshit followed by illiberal fools

White supremacy
toxic masculinity
everyone apart from soyboys are misogynistic
dividing people back into tribes
illegal immigration is a right.
equity
men or women can state a different sex and therefore I am
hate speech
being male or female is a construct.


you disagree you are a Nazi or some kind of phobe don't want your daughter going into toilet with a man who declares himself a woman hard luck far right looney.
let a rapist transfer to a womans prison well its there right your just a transphobe.

its all about division and one day if yiour ever grow up or aware it will be too late.

oh and jk rowling is a Nazi burn all her books and her if we ever catch her.

your pathetic and a fool of a man

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

We know your thick but I for one will fight the stated BLM worldview.

The mao/Marxist left have invented the following bullshit followed by illiberal fools

White supremacy
toxic masculinity
everyone apart from soyboys are misogynistic
dividing people back into tribes
illegal immigration is a right.
equity
men or women can state a different sex and therefore I am
hate speech
being male or female is a construct.


you disagree you are a Nazi or some kind of phobe don't want your daughter going into toilet with a man who declares himself a woman hard luck far right looney.
let a rapist transfer to a womans prison well its there right your just a transphobe.

its all about division and one day if yiour ever grow up or aware it will be too late.

oh and jk rowling is a Nazi burn all her books and her if we ever catch her.

your pathetic and a fool of a man

Literally nothing you’ve mentioned relates to my point in this thread or any previous threads I’ve posted in
Have you mistaken me for someone else?

1000s of black men and women have been murdered in the States(thats where this racist movement originated) for decades. How come these rich footballers only started kneeling after a career criminal was killed by a white police officer? . Did black lives not matter before this? Its cringeworthy when you see the likes of Lewis Hamilton(who like most of the outspoken Millionaires is mixed race), who has never know hardship in his life "taking the knee" which come on, we all know what this symbolises. I agree with the OP this is disgusting and has no place in football or a civilized society

Even worse, its been legitimised by white people who have taken on themselves a responsibility for slavery.. and the fools lap it up.

I'm glad to see your protest strategy of doing nothing worthwhile except complain on the forum for 6 months is still going strong but for the sake of debate have you considered this as a point.

Symbols and gestures and words get adopted and the ideals and things they stand for change, this is common and has happened throughout history. The Swastika, for example, has origins dating back 5000 years and is featured a lot in Hinduism and Buddhism and in many Asian countries the symbol is still used to mark religious sites on maps. Since the Nazis started using it in the 30's until the end of the war though in the western world it's seen as a symbol of hate and fascism.
The N word was used during the slave trade and is still used in a derogatory way to insult and dehumanise black people. However in the past several decades it's now been adopted by some black communities, mostly through music in my experience, and is being normalised and reclaimed as a word that some black people like to use as their own. Whether that is in a greeting, song, film, or a term of endearment.

Whatever the origins of the raised fist truly is I'm not sure. But as far as I'm aware no Premier League or Championship footballer have come out and said they support Black Supremacy or the eradication of white people.
So why must anyone doing the raised fist be advocating for genocide or a new age of fascism? What's to say this gesture hasn't been adopted as a symbol of strength and community, uniting people in the idea of equality?

You could claim exactly the same for the Nazi Salute

It would help your case if you elaborated a bit because in a broad sense yes, both symbols were adopted from a different origin and were/used to unite people behind a common cause. But then using such broad language you can say the Ayatollah also falls into that category.

The Sieg heil salute and Black Power salute are both associated with extreme political groups. The Ayatollah is associated with city Fans.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Black Lives Matter that burnt and looted Numerous American Cities recently, and the Black lives Matter that the Welsh and English football teams have just knelt for ? Serious question

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Black Lives Matter that burnt and looted Numerous American Cities recently, and the Black lives Matter that the Welsh and English football teams have just knelt for ? Serious question

Font ask footballers a confusing question like that Chief. They wouldn’t have a clue how to answer

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Black Lives Matter that burnt and looted Numerous American Cities recently, and the Black lives Matter that the Welsh and English football teams have just knelt for ? Serious question

Font ask footballers a confusing question like that Chief. They wouldn’t have a clue how to answer

Still needs answering though.

BLM started out as a rights movement for the Blacks. As it got popular it allowed itself to be hijacked by the AntiFA brigade. It this element that causes the riots.

The knelling of one knee, done by that American footballer, seems to have revitalised the BLM and its association with the fascist organisation AntiFA. The kneeling therefore is considered supporting a fascist ideal. Problem is your average footballer does not have the required IQ to work it out.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Black Lives Matter that burnt and looted Numerous American Cities recently, and the Black lives Matter that the Welsh and English football teams have just knelt for ? Serious question

Font ask footballers a confusing question like that Chief. They wouldn’t have a clue how to answer

Still needs answering though.

BLM started out as a rights movement for the Blacks. As it got popular it allowed itself to be hijacked by the AntiFA brigade. It this element that causes the riots.

The knelling of one knee, done by that American footballer, seems to have revitalised the BLM and its association with the fascist organisation AntiFA. The kneeling therefore is considered supporting a fascist ideal. Problem is your average footballer does not have the required IQ to work it out.

That is where the confusion sets in Ian. BLM wasn’t infiltrated by Antifa they are an offshoot of the same group. Same agendas same ideas and mostly those in the one group are in the other. They are backed and funded by the same people.
But this w ongly held belief that BLM were infiltrated by Antifa is 100% wrong. They are both a communist group that are anarchists and full of thugs criminals that want to change things to Communism using extreme violence. Anyone who does not agree with there agendas are fascists/ Nazis in there warped mind. So our players taking the knee for BLM is sick if they believe in there ideologies. It’s a bit like me saying I am pro Eau but I 100% support the Brexit Party.
So if you ain’t a communist and support BLM then you ain’t very bright. They do not give a damn about Black lives only there agenda.
After all BLM members supporters murdered David adorn live on Facebook but his life doesn’t matter. Blacks are being murdered by this group in America including kids but hey keep supporting them and there sick ideology’s.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Black Lives Matter that burnt and looted Numerous American Cities recently, and the Black lives Matter that the Welsh and English football teams have just knelt for ? Serious question

Font ask footballers a confusing question like that Chief. They wouldn’t have a clue how to answer

Still needs answering though.

BLM started out as a rights movement for the Blacks. As it got popular it allowed itself to be hijacked by the AntiFA brigade. It this element that causes the riots.

The knelling of one knee, done by that American footballer, seems to have revitalised the BLM and its association with the fascist organisation AntiFA. The kneeling therefore is considered supporting a fascist ideal. Problem is your average footballer does not have the required IQ to work it out.

That is where the confusion sets in Ian. BLM wasn’t infiltrated by Antifa they are an offshoot of the same group. Same agendas same ideas and mostly those in the one group are in the other. They are backed and funded by the same people.
But this w ongly held belief that BLM were infiltrated by Antifa is 100% wrong. They are both a communist group that are anarchists and full of thugs criminals that want to change things to Communism using extreme violence. Anyone who does not agree with there agendas are fascists/ Nazis in there warped mind. So our players taking the knee for BLM is sick if they believe in there ideologies. It’s a bit like me saying I am pro Eau but I 100% support the Brexit Party.
So if you ain’t a communist and support BLM then you ain’t very bright. They do not give a damn about Black lives only there agenda.
After all BLM members supporters murdered David adorn live on Facebook but his life doesn’t matter. Blacks are being murdered by this group in America including kids but hey keep supporting them and there sick ideology’s.

agree...most of these pop up demos are nothing of the sort well organised, well funded and often attended by many of the same people..