Disgusting and has no place in Football

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Tbh you've been saying that since June and are still here. All talk and no action I think.

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

Boring

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

Boring

and Trump has got the flu

Moore did take the knee once he saw everyone taking the knee around him. Took him a few seconds to realise though.

Tbh you've been saying that since June and are still here. All talk and no action I think.

Am on the message board that’s all. Those that are saying boring and don’t care would be up in arms if the players were doing Nazi salutes. Hypocrites spring to mind

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice ... ate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

Boring

and Trump has got the flu

honestly do not get the digs about flu..
if he is critical with flu, covid , ebola or anything else it makes little difference. likewise if its a mild infection of any of them..
the idea that death by one somehow makes you less dead is bonkers..

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

Taken from the link provided.

Why report hate crime?

It’s not OK to be targeted because of who you, your family or your friends are – or who people think they are. You have the right to live your life free from abuse and violence. If you’ve been the victim of a hate crime remember it is not your fault and help is available.

By reporting hate crime you may be able to prevent this from happening again to you or someone else. Our officers and staff are trained to deal with hate crime sensitively and professionally

Nukes could well argue that he is a target of racist abuse because the picture shows two black players doing a black power salute and he is white skinned. That is the same as a Jewish or other minority seeing a picture of two white people doing a joint Nazi salute.

The principle is the same and he definitely has a point as the law should be applicable no matter what the colour of the skin is of the victim or perpetrator

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

Taken from the link provided.

Why report hate crime?

It’s not OK to be targeted because of who you, your family or your friends are – or who people think they are. You have the right to live your life free from abuse and violence. If you’ve been the victim of a hate crime remember it is not your fault and help is available.

By reporting hate crime you may be able to prevent this from happening again to you or someone else. Our officers and staff are trained to deal with hate crime sensitively and professionally

Nukes could well argue that he is a target of racist abuse because the picture shows two black players doing a black power salute and he is white skinned. That is the same as a Jewish or other minority seeing a picture of two white people doing a joint Nazi salute.

The principle is the same and he definitely has a point as the law should be applicable no matter what the colour of the skin is of the victim or perpetrator

Equality before the law is the cornerstone of democracy but those on the extreme left like Josh don’t believe in democracy they’re driven by identity politics and critical race theory.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

Taken from the link provided.

Why report hate crime?

It’s not OK to be targeted because of who you, your family or your friends are – or who people think they are. You have the right to live your life free from abuse and violence. If you’ve been the victim of a hate crime remember it is not your fault and help is available.

By reporting hate crime you may be able to prevent this from happening again to you or someone else. Our officers and staff are trained to deal with hate crime sensitively and professionally

Nukes could well argue that he is a target of racist abuse because the picture shows two black players doing a black power salute and he is white skinned. That is the same as a Jewish or other minority seeing a picture of two white people doing a joint Nazi salute.

The principle is the same and he definitely has a point as the law should be applicable no matter what the colour of the skin is of the victim or perpetrator

Equality before the law is the cornerstone of democracy but those on the extreme left like Josh don’t believe in democracy they’re driven by identity politics and critical race theory.

So I suggest he actually uses the law if he thinks it's racist and now that means I hate democracy. OK then.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

Taken from the link provided.

Why report hate crime?

It’s not OK to be targeted because of who you, your family or your friends are – or who people think they are. You have the right to live your life free from abuse and violence. If you’ve been the victim of a hate crime remember it is not your fault and help is available.

By reporting hate crime you may be able to prevent this from happening again to you or someone else. Our officers and staff are trained to deal with hate crime sensitively and professionally

Nukes could well argue that he is a target of racist abuse because the picture shows two black players doing a black power salute and he is white skinned. That is the same as a Jewish or other minority seeing a picture of two white people doing a joint Nazi salute.

The principle is the same and he definitely has a point as the law should be applicable no matter what the colour of the skin is of the victim or perpetrator

Equality before the law is the cornerstone of democracy but those on the extreme left like Josh don’t believe in democracy they’re driven by identity politics and critical race theory.

So I suggest he actually uses the law if he thinks it's racist and now that means I hate democracy. OK then.

You know in the current political climate that these idiots giving the Black Power Salute will never be charged.

Black Power/ White Power.. no difference other than in the eyes of law enforcement.

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

totally agree with your statement the clubs are players are cowards , this cancer of identity politics has been imported from west coast universities which are no longer places of education but activists hellholes.
Even JK Rowling is now far right accoiding the social justice bullies and racist ,its not by accident that the white working class men are the most demonised for not agreeing with this horseshit,the new left are insane and a real threat to all our futures.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

Taken from the link provided.

Why report hate crime?

It’s not OK to be targeted because of who you, your family or your friends are – or who people think they are. You have the right to live your life free from abuse and violence. If you’ve been the victim of a hate crime remember it is not your fault and help is available.

By reporting hate crime you may be able to prevent this from happening again to you or someone else. Our officers and staff are trained to deal with hate crime sensitively and professionally

Nukes could well argue that he is a target of racist abuse because the picture shows two black players doing a black power salute and he is white skinned. That is the same as a Jewish or other minority seeing a picture of two white people doing a joint Nazi salute.

The principle is the same and he definitely has a point as the law should be applicable no matter what the colour of the skin is of the victim or perpetrator

Equality before the law is the cornerstone of democracy but those on the extreme left like Josh don’t believe in democracy they’re driven by identity politics and critical race theory.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/how-to-report-hate-crime/

If you really think its racist and they should be charged then there you go.

I rather think your protest of not attending games when no one can might not be successful.

Taken from the link provided.

Why report hate crime?

It’s not OK to be targeted because of who you, your family or your friends are – or who people think they are. You have the right to live your life free from abuse and violence. If you’ve been the victim of a hate crime remember it is not your fault and help is available.

By reporting hate crime you may be able to prevent this from happening again to you or someone else. Our officers and staff are trained to deal with hate crime sensitively and professionally

Nukes could well argue that he is a target of racist abuse because the picture shows two black players doing a black power salute and he is white skinned. That is the same as a Jewish or other minority seeing a picture of two white people doing a joint Nazi salute.

The principle is the same and he definitely has a point as the law should be applicable no matter what the colour of the skin is of the victim or perpetrator

Equality before the law is the cornerstone of democracy but those on the extreme left like Josh don’t believe in democracy they’re driven by identity politics and critical race theory.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Provide the evidence then. I'll wait.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Provide the evidence then. I'll wait.

Provide evidence of what?

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Provide the evidence then. I'll wait.

Provide evidence of what?

That the allegations are true. We can start with anti democracy seen as that was said first. A couple of quotes will be fine.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Provide the evidence then. I'll wait.

Provide evidence of what?

That the allegations are true. We can start with anti democracy seen as that was said first. A couple of quotes will be fine.

I didn't accuse you of being anti democratic so refer that to the person who did.

If you want evidence that the new kind of left has been rejected by traditional left leaning voters (like me) I would point to last December's general election and the Conservative 80 seat majority which was mainly built on taking seats from Labour's red wall.

As for your bedwetter identity politics this board has your warped thinking down in black & white (no racial pun intended before you spit your lentil dinner out) for everyone to see. Like it or not you have a reputation for being brainwashed by this PC nonsense without any ability to understand why things like 'taking the knee' spreads division and damages racial relations.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Labour have morphed into a middle class party who despise the working class

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Go on then, pick any book you want and I'll read it. Then I'll do what you obviously do and read a book with an opposing view to make sure I get both sides before making up my mind.

Well I'd love to know how me showing him the legal options he can do such as phoning the police shows that I'm 'brainwashed'.
And then someone can tell me how that also means I'm anti Democracy.

If anyone else wants to suggest ideas for things he can do that could actually make a difference (something different than not attending games you can't even go to) then maybe post them so we don't keep getting this for another 6 months.

It is more than just this one post. You are a serial left leaning bedwetter when it comes to identity politics. The real sad thing is the left has been hi-jacked by this type of thinking and literally left the traditional left leaning person with no natural political home.

Provide the evidence then. I'll wait.

Provide evidence of what?

That the allegations are true. We can start with anti democracy seen as that was said first. A couple of quotes will be fine.

I didn't accuse you of being anti democratic so refer that to the person who did.

If you want evidence that the new kind of left has been rejected by traditional left leaning voters (like me) I would point to last December's general election and the Conservative 80 seat majority which was mainly built on taking seats from Labour's red wall.

As for your bedwetter identity politics this board has your warped thinking down in black & white (no racial pun intended before you spit your lentil dinner out) for everyone to see. Like it or not you have a reputation for being brainwashed by this PC nonsense without any ability to understand why things like 'taking the knee' spreads division and damages racial relations.

I know you didn't expressively say it but you did reply with "It is more than just this one post" which I read as you agreeing with it at least.

I can say that people on this board are brainwashed the opposite way regards to "this pc nonsense" and that is what's causing the divisions. You can always predict what people would be on what side if you saw the title 'brexit', 'trump' or 'blm' etc. And I'm not saying I'm not one of them but to only call me brainwashed is naive.

If the players was doing Nazi salutes there would be a national outcry and especially on here and rightly so. Now we have players doing supremacy gestures every game. I cannot support my club whilst these vile racists are in our club. It is wrong and they should be charged. But also I blame CCFC for allowing this. What these players do when there is no crowd to judge them.
I won’t come back until these players are gone. And a big up for Kiefer who apparently did not take the knee

D64AE307-3846-4162-9A7A-CBE46BE70108.jpeg

today.

100% agree with you and most people i know agree as well. But in the eyes of the pc brigade that only makes us racist.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Go on then, pick any book you want and I'll read it. Then I'll do what you obviously do and read a book with an opposing view to make sure I get both sides before making up my mind.

The funny thing about your comment is literally the last books(s) I bought which arrived a day or so ago was Das Kapital Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 3b.

I've read it many times before anyway, but it was a good deal on a relatively early print run (1921) in German at a very good price, and while I abhor Marx's ideas, I respect the impact of that book so it is a piece of history. Besides old books look and smell great.

But yes that is exactly what I do. I read both sides of an argument, make my mind up and go from there. So yes, you are absolutely spot on that is exactly what I do.

See after all these threads your finally starting to understand how I approach things. Maybe my good influence is slowly rubbing off on you

With regards to your request, while I suspect you might not actually have wanted a suggestion(s), I'll take it at face value and so in the spirit of good faith, some good reading is listed below that can help you navigate your way through the culture war you have leapt blindly into with both feet.

Besides, it's useful information for anyone else who wants to know more about political philosophy.

So my belief is if you actually do want to read something that can improve your understanding of modern politics then all the answers lie in the past.

All of the following are important reads and most likely you can find a PDF version of them fairly easily I'd imagine.

On Liberty/Utilitarianism - JS Mill
Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
The Republic - Plato
Meditations - Marcus Aurelius
Mein Kampf - Hitler
Das Kapital - Karl Marx
Gulag Archepelogo Vol1 - Stolychenitzen
Two Treatises of Government - John Locke
Groundwork for the metaphysics of Morals - Emmanuel Kant
Phemonology of Spirit - Hegel
Beyond Good and Evil - Frederick Nietzsche
The Poilitical Writings of John Adams


A mix of these would give you a good grounding on modern politics because all we are seeing in the world today is a re-run of the state collectivism (see Marx/Hitler) vs individual liberty (see Mill/Locke/Adams/Kant) ethos that underpinned the major conflicts of the 20th Century.

Aurelius and Plato offer some good subtext to the foundations of Western philosphy. I'd put the Bible in there for the same reasons but realistically very few people would take the time to read the Bible properly.

Darwin & Hegel were influences on both Marx and Hitler so offer important context. Nietzsche's influence is felt on Mein Kampf and was a factor in where Stalinism and Nazism diverge. (An important point is that, that doesn't mean that Nietzsche is accountable for Nazism though)

The Gulag Archepelago is simply the best first-hand documentation of what happens when Socialism is implemented hands down. Read that and build a then try to build a solid case for socialism. Honestly, this whole conversation should have ended when that book was published and won the Nobel Prize for literature.

Utimately, where we are today - why the culture war that is raging, can be boiled down to exactly the same arguments as the 1930s. They are being made with different players on different pitches, but strip it all down it is exactly the same.

Finally, the Malcolm Pryce books are great fiction, nothing to do with politics but wonderfully surreal, Welsh-noir.

You can always predict what people would be on what side if you saw the title 'brexit', 'trump' or 'blm' etc. And I'm not saying I'm not one of them but to only call me brainwashed is naive.

To give credit where it is due, this is true and I include myself in that list as well. The world has become more polarised than most of us care to accept and that is a dangerous thing.

The one counter I would add though is that there is far more diversity of thought on the 'not-the-left' (opposition to what the today's left seems too broad to call accurately label it just as the 'right' anymore).

But the point stands we are hugely polarised at the moment.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Go on then, pick any book you want and I'll read it. Then I'll do what you obviously do and read a book with an opposing view to make sure I get both sides before making up my mind.

The funny thing about your comment is literally the last books(s) I bought which arrived a day or so ago was Das Kapital Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 3b.

I've read it many times before anyway, but it was a good deal on a relatively early print run (1921) in German at a very good price, and while I abhor Marx's ideas, I respect the impact of that book so it is a piece of history. Besides old books look and smell great.

But yes that is exactly what I do. I read both sides of an argument, make my mind up and go from there. So yes, you are absolutely spot on that is exactly what I do.

See after all these threads your finally starting to understand how I approach things. Maybe my good influence is slowly rubbing off on you

With regards to your request, while I suspect you might not actually have wanted a suggestion(s), I'll take it at face value and so in the spirit of good faith, some good reading is listed below that can help you navigate your way through the culture war you have leapt blindly into with both feet.

Besides, it's useful information for anyone else who wants to know more about political philosophy.

So my belief is if you actually do want to read something that can improve your understanding of modern politics then all the answers lie in the past.

All of the following are important reads and most likely you can find a PDF version of them fairly easily I'd imagine.

On Liberty/Utilitarianism - JS Mill
Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
The Republic - Plato
Meditations - Marcus Aurelius
Mein Kampf - Hitler
Das Kapital - Karl Marx
Gulag Archepelogo Vol1 - Stolychenitzen
Two Treatises of Government - John Locke
Groundwork for the metaphysics of Morals - Emmanuel Kant
Phemonology of Spirit - Hegel
Beyond Good and Evil - Frederick Nietzsche
The Poilitical Writings of John Adams


A mix of these would give you a good grounding on modern politics because all we are seeing in the world today is a re-run of the state collectivism (see Marx/Hitler) vs individual liberty (see Mill/Locke/Adams/Kant) ethos that underpinned the major conflicts of the 20th Century.

Aurelius and Plato offer some good subtext to the foundations of Western philosphy. I'd put the Bible in there for the same reasons but realistically very few people would take the time to read the Bible properly.

Darwin & Hegel were influences on both Marx and Hitler so offer important context. Nietzsche's influence is felt on Mein Kampf and was a factor in where Stalinism and Nazism diverge. (An important point is that, that doesn't mean that Nietzsche is accountable for Nazism though)

The Gulag Archepelago is simply the best first-hand documentation of what happens when Socialism is implemented hands down. Read that and build a then try to build a solid case for socialism. Honestly, this whole conversation should have ended when that book was published and won the Nobel Prize for literature.

Utimately, where we are today - why the culture war that is raging, can be boiled down to exactly the same arguments as the 1930s. They are being made with different players on different pitches, but strip it all down it is exactly the same.

Finally, the Malcolm Pryce books are great fiction, nothing to do with politics but wonderfully surreal, Welsh-noir.

Not doubting these are good and informative reads BUT the following are also a cracking read ...

Puckoon - Spike Milligan

The Bible according to Spike Milligan

All his autobiographical novels.

Josh should read some Douglass murray or thomas sowell or helen pluckrose.
but hes so brainwashed hes a lost cause.

To be honest a book would be a good start.

Any book will do, just something to get him out of the faux-Guardianista echo chamber and cause whatever final remnants of grey matter that are knocking around in his head to finally kick back into gear.

Not gonna happen though, way easier to cut and paste someone else's opinion and claim the virtue points.

Thinking for yourself is hard work, something the new left doesn't believe in.

Go on then, pick any book you want and I'll read it. Then I'll do what you obviously do and read a book with an opposing view to make sure I get both sides before making up my mind.

The funny thing about your comment is literally the last books(s) I bought which arrived a day or so ago was Das Kapital Volumes 1, 2, 3 and 3b.

I've read it many times before anyway, but it was a good deal on a relatively early print run (1921) in German at a very good price, and while I abhor Marx's ideas, I respect the impact of that book so it is a piece of history. Besides old books look and smell great.

But yes that is exactly what I do. I read both sides of an argument, make my mind up and go from there. So yes, you are absolutely spot on that is exactly what I do.

See after all these threads your finally starting to understand how I approach things. Maybe my good influence is slowly rubbing off on you

With regards to your request, while I suspect you might not actually have wanted a suggestion(s), I'll take it at face value and so in the spirit of good faith, some good reading is listed below that can help you navigate your way through the culture war you have leapt blindly into with both feet.

Besides, it's useful information for anyone else who wants to know more about political philosophy.

So my belief is if you actually do want to read something that can improve your understanding of modern politics then all the answers lie in the past.

All of the following are important reads and most likely you can find a PDF version of them fairly easily I'd imagine.

On Liberty/Utilitarianism - JS Mill
Origin of Species - Charles Darwin
The Republic - Plato
Meditations - Marcus Aurelius
Mein Kampf - Hitler
Das Kapital - Karl Marx
Gulag Archepelogo Vol1 - Stolychenitzen
Two Treatises of Government - John Locke
Groundwork for the metaphysics of Morals - Emmanuel Kant
Phemonology of Spirit - Hegel
Beyond Good and Evil - Frederick Nietzsche
The Poilitical Writings of John Adams


A mix of these would give you a good grounding on modern politics because all we are seeing in the world today is a re-run of the state collectivism (see Marx/Hitler) vs individual liberty (see Mill/Locke/Adams/Kant) ethos that underpinned the major conflicts of the 20th Century.

Aurelius and Plato offer some good subtext to the foundations of Western philosphy. I'd put the Bible in there for the same reasons but realistically very few people would take the time to read the Bible properly.

Darwin & Hegel were influences on both Marx and Hitler so offer important context. Nietzsche's influence is felt on Mein Kampf and was a factor in where Stalinism and Nazism diverge. (An important point is that, that doesn't mean that Nietzsche is accountable for Nazism though)

The Gulag Archepelago is simply the best first-hand documentation of what happens when Socialism is implemented hands down. Read that and build a then try to build a solid case for socialism. Honestly, this whole conversation should have ended when that book was published and won the Nobel Prize for literature.

Utimately, where we are today - why the culture war that is raging, can be boiled down to exactly the same arguments as the 1930s. They are being made with different players on different pitches, but strip it all down it is exactly the same.

Finally, the Malcolm Pryce books are great fiction, nothing to do with politics but wonderfully surreal, Welsh-noir.

Not doubting these are good and informative reads BUT the following are also a cracking read ...

Puckoon - Spike Milligan

The Bible according to Spike Milligan

All his autobiographical novels.

Love me a bit of Spike. Apparently on his gravestone it reads 'I told you I was ill' but in Irish Gaelic so it looks all classy.