‘ Some true and honest figures ‘

If all countries figures were put in correctly I think we would find the death toll sadly was way way higher


Italy and Spain suffered badly due to their older populations and 2/3’s of these live in flats more than any other countries in the world .


CORONAVIRUS
The real Covid-19 death toll in Spain: at least 44,868 victims

EL PAÍS used regional records and reports from three different agencies to arrive at a figure that is much higher than the official one of 28,432.




BY JOSÉ MANUEL ROMERO
Madrid -

3rd August 2020

Covid-19, which is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus first detected in Wuhan, China, in November 2019, has killed at least 44,868 people in Spain since January 13, when the first death from the disease was recorded. That is much higher than the official death toll of 28,432 reported by the Spanish Health Ministry based on cases that were tested and came back positive.
If all the countries were honest and put all the correct data in, they would show a much higher death rate, but many countries are hiding the true figures.
Spain has gone back to January and put all the correct data in and it shows how bad the death rate really was.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213752

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

i passed a cricket club yesterday where the bar was open for drinking outside ,which had spread onto the pitch.. would be difficult to have fitted another person on the pitch.. beer gardens are the same... many have already decided to just live with it.. many decided this months ago and worked through it.... its what people all over Europe did in 1968, or at least i dont remember masks and lockdowns

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

i passed a cricket club yesterday where the bar was open for drinking outside ,which had spread onto the pitch.. would be difficult to have fitted another person on the pitch.. beer gardens are the same... many have already decided to just live with it.. many decided this months ago and worked through it.... its what people all over Europe did in 1968, or at least i dont remember masks and lockdowns

I’ve seen this for weeks yet there were only 3 deaths in Wales yesterday. I know there’s a ‘slump’ in figures on a Sunday but the behaviour isn’t being shown in the mortality rate. My son and his mrs are phsrmacist / registrar doc and both have said that they believe that the virus will mutate and not be so deadly. I know that Annis has had similar dialogue with a doctor too.

i passed a cricket club yesterday where the bar was open for drinking outside ,which had spread onto the pitch.. would be difficult to have fitted another person on the pitch.. beer gardens are the same... many have already decided to just live with it.. many decided this months ago and worked through it.... its what people all over Europe did in 1968, or at least i dont remember masks and lockdowns

Providing those at the cricket club were young healthy people IMO they are doing no wrong. They would have personal responsibly to stay away from vulnerable people and to self-isolate if they show symptoms but that apart they should be allowed to continue with their lives in a reasonably normal way.

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

Anyone who is young and healthy has no reason not to travel to Spain (the quarantine on return apart). Infection can happen anywhere in the world and I would imagine Devon/Cornwall is as dangerous as Southern Spain, but wherever infection happens it has nearly no affect on younger fitter people who have a strong immune systems.

If you are over 50 or suffer with certain chronic conditions then it would be unwise to travel anywhere where there is a density of population as the opposite could apply.

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

Anyone who is young and healthy has no reason not to travel to Spain (the quarantine on return apart). Infection can happen anywhere in the world and I would imagine Devon/Cornwall is as dangerous as Southern Spain, but wherever infection happens it has nearly no affect on younger fitter people who have a strong immune systems.

If you are over 50 or suffer with certain chronic conditions then it would be unwise to travel anywhere where there is a density of population as the opposite could apply.

In 57 and off to Rhodes a week Saturday. I’m pretty careful and I’ve been back to work too.

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

Anyone who is young and healthy has no reason not to travel to Spain (the quarantine on return apart). Infection can happen anywhere in the world and I would imagine Devon/Cornwall is as dangerous as Southern Spain, but wherever infection happens it has nearly no affect on younger fitter people who have a strong immune systems.

If you are over 50 or suffer with certain chronic conditions then it would be unwise to travel anywhere where there is a density of population as the opposite could apply.

In 57 and off to Rhodes a week Saturday. I’m pretty careful and I’ve been back to work too.

I should of explained that 50 was a ball mark figure not a cut off point and as we have seen there were many older people working in shops throughout the lock down. Most people know their own bodies best and if you feel confident to travel by taking precautions and being careful then good luck to you. Have a good time

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

Anyone who is young and healthy has no reason not to travel to Spain (the quarantine on return apart). Infection can happen anywhere in the world and I would imagine Devon/Cornwall is as dangerous as Southern Spain, but wherever infection happens it has nearly no affect on younger fitter people who have a strong immune systems.

If you are over 50 or suffer with certain chronic conditions then it would be unwise to travel anywhere where there is a density of population as the opposite could apply.

In 57 and off to Rhodes a week Saturday. I’m pretty careful and I’ve been back to work too.

I should of explained that 50 was a ball mark figure not a cut off point and as we have seen there were many older people working in shops throughout the lock down. Most people know their own bodies best and if you feel confident to travel by taking precautions and being careful then good luck to you. Have a good time

Cheers mate.
Know what you mean re ball park figure

The 50 figure that is being rumoured will probably be extended to 60 or 65. There are many 50 to 60 year olds that are far fitter, healthier and thinner than many younger people. As has been said many of the older bracket continued working throughout the lockdown.

The 50 figure that is being rumoured will probably be extended to 60 or 65. There are many 50 to 60 year olds that are far fitter, healthier and thinner than many younger people. As has been said many of the older bracket continued working throughout the lockdown.

lets hope it doesnt happen at all...the knock on effects are much more serious than is being given serious coverage too... not much point in stopping someone from getting covid if the result is suicide, going bankrupt or a life of depression and illness..

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

i passed a cricket club yesterday where the bar was open for drinking outside ,which had spread onto the pitch.. would be difficult to have fitted another person on the pitch.. beer gardens are the same... many have already decided to just live with it.. many decided this months ago and worked through it.... its what people all over Europe did in 1968, or at least i dont remember masks and lockdowns

Pubs will be shut again soon enjoy them well you can!!!

Although personally I'm not that bothered, there are more important things and I'm getting used to drinking at home.

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

Anyone who is young and healthy has no reason not to travel to Spain (the quarantine on return apart). Infection can happen anywhere in the world and I would imagine Devon/Cornwall is as dangerous as Southern Spain, but wherever infection happens it has nearly no affect on younger fitter people who have a strong immune systems.

If you are over 50 or suffer with certain chronic conditions then it would be unwise to travel anywhere where there is a density of population as the opposite could apply.

In 57 and off to Rhodes a week Saturday. I’m pretty careful and I’ve been back to work too.

I'm due to go to Ibiza shortly but Tui won't cancel yet, I'll switch it to Corfu or Rhodes when they get around to it, although today in the mail they are saying The government may lift their restrictions for the Islands?

I can't see them changing myself, more likely wishful thinking from the Spanish government, especially if the information regarding the Spanish figures mentioned above are true?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... TODAY.html

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

Anyone who is young and healthy has no reason not to travel to Spain (the quarantine on return apart). Infection can happen anywhere in the world and I would imagine Devon/Cornwall is as dangerous as Southern Spain, but wherever infection happens it has nearly no affect on younger fitter people who have a strong immune systems.

If you are over 50 or suffer with certain chronic conditions then it would be unwise to travel anywhere where there is a density of population as the opposite could apply.

In 57 and off to Rhodes a week Saturday. I’m pretty careful and I’ve been back to work too.

I'm due to go to Ibiza shortly but Tui won't cancel yet, I'll switch it to Corfu or Rhodes when they get around to it, although today in the mail they are saying The government may lift their restrictions for the Islands?

I can't see them changing myself, more likely wishful thinking from the Spanish government, especially if the information regarding the Spanish figures mentioned above are true?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... TODAY.html

That’s what we did mate. Switched from Benidorm to Rhodes. Greece is about a safe a bet as you’ll get in Europe I think.

If all countries figures were put in correctly I think we would find the death toll sadly was way way higher


Italy and Spain suffered badly due to their older populations and 2/3’s of these live in flats more than any other countries in the world .


CORONAVIRUS
The real Covid-19 death toll in Spain: at least 44,868 victims

EL PAÍS used regional records and reports from three different agencies to arrive at a figure that is much higher than the official one of 28,432.




BY JOSÉ MANUEL ROMERO
Madrid -

3rd August 2020

Covid-19, which is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus first detected in Wuhan, China, in November 2019, has killed at least 44,868 people in Spain since January 13, when the first death from the disease was recorded. That is much higher than the official death toll of 28,432 reported by the Spanish Health Ministry based on cases that were tested and came back positive.
If all the countries were honest and put all the correct data in, they would show a much higher death rate, but many countries are hiding the true figures.
Spain has gone back to January and put all the correct data in and it shows how bad the death rate really was.

People always saying we are the worse in europe I think in years to come it won't be the case ,most European countries are no recording the figures like us ,our figures are inflated, I really don't know why they've done it seems odd , the virus lockdown will kill more than than the virus itself, report today and all on the news is we have a higher excess death rate outside of hospital but in hospital is alot lower not coz of the virus itself but because of the undiagnosed illness that isn't being treated in hospital ,I think we've concentrated on the virus so much that we've taken our eye off the ball for other illnesses

Its massively an older persons illness uk age 45 to 64 deaths 4895
65 ro 74 7549.75 to 84 16586 and over 85 21766 .source office for national statistics.

Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

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Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

The island always going to be good seems the densely populated cities around the world are where its worse

Our authorities have been slagged off repeatedly and held up as examples as how not to do when compared to these other countries. You only have to do a small amount of research to see ACTUALLY we have fared comparatively well we are just more honest.

Things that happened in China, Iran, Italy, Spain, did NOT happen here. We did not see people keeling over in the streets. We did not see people lined up in hospital corridors (all of them). We did not see countless government members and officials dying on a daily basis (Iran). We did not see people WELDED in to their own houses (China). We did not see mass graves dug (Iran). We have not see MASSIVE increases in Urn sales and mass decrease in mobile phone connections( China).

Did we do things right? No. Should we have locked down sooner? Probably.

Our hospitals were not swamped. Yes we have had to do MAJOR re organising. But the Nightingale hospitals proved un necessary to date. If our situation worsens again then we have them. Our people on te whole were given care where needed and those too ill were provided as much care and dignity as we could. In Italy and china people died in their homes and relatives had to live with their loved ones dead bodies in the same house.

People bemoan the lack of testing. We have never needed to test to that scale on a daily basis with rapid turn around. We needed infrastructure. We also needed civil service and public sector establishments to move as fast as dynamic private enterprises can. They usually cant. TO do what they have done as quickly as they have is no mean feat.

Lock down was too tough. Lock down not tough enough. New Zealand are amazing because of their lock down. Sweden are amazing because they didnt do one. Cant have it both ways guys. Either we locked down too late and not enough or we didn't need to lockdown at all. There is no in-between. My own feeling is we left it a week too late. But thats what hind sight gives you. There is no way to test the hypothesis that a week sooner would have changed much.

We couldn't close the borders as most of our cases came from mainland europe and as such there would not be the same travel restrictions as those potentially imposed on china.

IMHO the new dynamic local measures are the way to go.

We know more about the virus now and we are 4 months closer to a vaccine.

Now that true figures are starting to appear then perhaps the UK isn't as bad as some in the media would have you believe.
This is a horrible virus which is unforgiving and indiscriminate. Boris Johnson, wee nippy, drakeford etc are a lot of things. But they are not to blame for the virus and are all (as much as it pains me to say it) trying their best to control the seemingly uncontrollable.

It's not going away and we have to accept we will have to live with it for a long time.

The pictures of Bournemouth beach are replicated in Barry Island, (which are not being shown), and many other places.
25,000 a day at Barry Island if reports are to be believed.

I received information from a Spanish contact (very credible) the other weekend that a hospital in Southern Spain was admitting covid patients at a rate that was doubling daily. I was advised not to go over there.

It has been known for a while that the Spanish government have been "hiding" the true figures.

The pictures I saw of Barry Island showed it was busy but looked nowhere near 25,000

Some of the pictures of Barry in the 50 and 60’s showed it absolutely packed, I think I read about 45,000 on the beach plus thousands of others in the funfair!!! No chance to social distance in those days

Spain's islands to remain on travel ban 'red list' despite claims for Spanish tourism minister

Spain’s Balearic and Canary islands will remain on the Government’s travel “red list” despite claims to the contrary by Spanish

Mapped: 2.7m people in northern England 'mopped up' by blanket lockdown

More than two thirds of neighbourhoods put under new restrictions overnight have seen fewer than four cases in a fortnight

Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

I agree, all the facts say the Islands are very safe, you've just been unlucky that you've been grouped together with the rest of Spain, but maybe in the long run it will be a good thing for you, as it looks like the virus is coming back steadily all over Europe, the UK included.

Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

I agree, all the facts say the Islands are very safe, you've just been unlucky that you've been grouped together with the rest of Spain, but maybe in the long run it will be a good thing for you, as it looks like the virus is coming back steadily all over Europe, the UK included.

I have thought of that, we need to keep the islands safe.
But so far 20% of businesses have gone bankrupt, expected by the end of the year 40%.
Also hundreds of ex pats already gone back to UK to sign on, thousands to follow , leaving Islands less British but UK footing the bill .

Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

The island always going to be good seems the densely populated cities around the world are where its worse

Islands and places near the sea, especially with warm climates are not suffering as much as cramped cities. This is something that came from Italian studies. Climate can seem to have a lot to do with the virus spread, it's why Rome did not suffer as bad as northern Italy - they claim.
Scottish Islands are also virtually virus free due to their isolation, not health or government policy.

But what is to stop people travelling from the mainland to an island and then around the world? That is why the bans are country wide and not region specific.

Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

The island always going to be good seems the densely populated cities around the world are where its worse

Islands and places near the sea, especially with warm climates are not suffering as much as cramped cities. This is something that came from Italian studies. Climate can seem to have a lot to do with the virus spread, it's why Rome did not suffer as bad as northern Italy - they claim.
Scottish Islands are also virtually virus free due to their isolation, not health or government policy.

But what is to stop people travelling from the mainland to an island and then around the world? That is why the bans are country wide and not region specific.

agree

Balearic death rate and virus one of the least in the world

I agree, all the facts say the Islands are very safe, you've just been unlucky that you've been grouped together with the rest of Spain, but maybe in the long run it will be a good thing for you, as it looks like the virus is coming back steadily all over Europe, the UK included.

I have thought of that, we need to keep the islands safe.
But so far 20% of businesses have gone bankrupt, expected by the end of the year 40%.
Also hundreds of ex pats already gone back to UK to sign on, thousands to follow , leaving Islands less British but UK footing the bill .

That is a terrible situation, and probably replicated in Countries all over the World, we need a vaccine quick, although have the people on here say they won't take it ?

Our authorities have been slagged off repeatedly and held up as examples as how not to do when compared to these other countries. You only have to do a small amount of research to see ACTUALLY we have fared comparatively well we are just more honest.

Things that happened in China, Iran, Italy, Spain, did NOT happen here. We did not see people keeling over in the streets. We did not see people lined up in hospital corridors (all of them). We did not see countless government members and officials dying on a daily basis (Iran). We did not see people WELDED in to their own houses (China). We did not see mass graves dug (Iran). We have not see MASSIVE increases in Urn sales and mass decrease in mobile phone connections( China).

Did we do things right? No. Should we have locked down sooner? Probably.

Our hospitals were not swamped. Yes we have had to do MAJOR re organising. But the Nightingale hospitals proved un necessary to date. If our situation worsens again then we have them. Our people on te whole were given care where needed and those too ill were provided as much care and dignity as we could. In Italy and china people died in their homes and relatives had to live with their loved ones dead bodies in the same house.

People bemoan the lack of testing. We have never needed to test to that scale on a daily basis with rapid turn around. We needed infrastructure. We also needed civil service and public sector establishments to move as fast as dynamic private enterprises can. They usually cant. TO do what they have done as quickly as they have is no mean feat.

Lock down was too tough. Lock down not tough enough. New Zealand are amazing because of their lock down. Sweden are amazing because they didnt do one. Cant have it both ways guys. Either we locked down too late and not enough or we didn't need to lockdown at all. There is no in-between. My own feeling is we left it a week too late. But thats what hind sight gives you. There is no way to test the hypothesis that a week sooner would have changed much.

We couldn't close the borders as most of our cases came from mainland europe and as such there would not be the same travel restrictions as those potentially imposed on china.

IMHO the new dynamic local measures are the way to go.

We know more about the virus now and we are 4 months closer to a vaccine.

Now that true figures are starting to appear then perhaps the UK isn't as bad as some in the media would have you believe.
This is a horrible virus which is unforgiving and indiscriminate. Boris Johnson, wee nippy, drakeford etc are a lot of things. But they are not to blame for the virus and are all (as much as it pains me to say it) trying their best to control the seemingly uncontrollable.

Spot on mate the constant bitching about how bad the UK has handled this over the last few months by the media and on this board has been ridiculous