Rewriting History

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

Shooting people solves nothing using violence solves nothing consultation and arbitration is the best way forward. At the moment it looks like it’s all one way in terms of compromise it needs to be seen that all parts of society move on together.

Shooting people solves nothing using violence solves nothing consultation and arbitration is the best way forward. At the moment it looks like it’s all one way in terms of compromise it needs to be seen that all parts of society move on together.

well lets all do the kier doesn't seem to have much effect...

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

I agree in principle with your view on changing history,but times have changed,and my opinion is put them in a museum, where if you want,you can go visit it,and if you don't, it's not in the faces of those it offends?

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

I agree in principle with your view on changing history,but times have changed,and my opinion is put them in a museum, where if you want,you can go visit it,and if you don't, it's not in the faces of those it offends?

slavery was wrong mate.. no argument. but it was a while ago..
I don't get whats happening now on so many levels.... where does destroying history stop .. the pyramids are the oldest large structures on earth, built as monuments to kings..by the slaves they owned...we have roman amphitheatres all over Europe built by slaves... then there is democracy.. i really don't see its one person or a few dozen who have the right to make random decisions on what stays or what goes...there have actually been discussions in many cities re street names and statues being guided by their own black communities and dumping it all in the docks was certainly not the view.... long before BLM kicked off.. ..and then Africa. the biggy. you want to protest slavery { not that this lot really care about black lives in general or slavery in general } its the go to place, or at least should be. slavery has been a way of life there for far longer than Europeans could even sail that far.. and Africans would often sell / batter their slaves on to be transported... some countries are beginning to face this embarrassment others not so eager to , understandably... but its not like its some big secret....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

I agree in principle with your view on changing history,but times have changed,and my opinion is put them in a museum, where if you want,you can go visit it,and if you don't, it's not in the faces of those it offends?

slavery was wrong mate.. no argument. but it was a while ago..
I don't get whats happening now on so many levels.... where does destroying history stop .. the pyramids are the oldest large structures on earth, built as monuments to kings..by the slaves they owned...we have roman amphitheatres all over Europe built by slaves... then there is democracy.. i really don't see its one person or a few dozen who have the right to make random decisions on what stays or what goes...there have actually been discussions in many cities re street names and statues being guided by their own black communities and dumping it all in the docks was certainly not the view.... long before BLM kicked off.. ..and then Africa. the biggy. you want to protest slavery { not that this lot really care about black lives in general or slavery in general } its the go to place, or at least should be. slavery has been a way of life there for far longer than Europeans could even sail that far.. and Africans would often sell / batter their slaves on to be transported... some countries are beginning to face this embarrassment others not so eager to , understandably... but its not like its some big secret....

Even a statue of Cecil Rhodes descrbed as an imperialist at oxford uni is under pressure to be removed by some group of nobodies! Where will it end ?

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

Its not just history that the appeasement of minorities is effecting. My son has just informed me that in the last few days both net flicks and the BBC i player have taken down Little Britain, Come Fly with Me and the League of Gentlemen because of the offence they could cause. Give it another few years and it will be illegal to own a copy. We are living in very dangerous times for freedom of speech and even freedom of thought and its about time people woke up to the fact.

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

Just a reminder that the statues of Churchill and Baden Powell are in a foreign land England.
Powell was a fascist and admired Hitler.
Churchill whilst a great war leader no doubt about that sent the Worcestershire regiment to Llanelli where Railway workers were on strike to get a pay rise on their £1 a week wages 2 men were killed..Churchill sent the British army to Tonypandy to quell a riot. Miners fought with the police who had reinforcements from Bristol. Churchill was booed at his 1950 election campaign at Ninian Park.

Gordon Banks statue to be removed after that save from Pele's header...

Gordon Banks statue to be removed after that save from Pele's header...

Has he got one eye or two on the statue.

Gordon Banks statue to be removed after that save from Pele's header...

Nice to have a bit of humour injected on this thread.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/10/us/christopher-columbus-statues-down-trnd/index.html

The pyramids were not built by slaves they were built by skilled workers who lived in specially built workers villages and were paid for their labour. Roman forts and amphitheater were built mostly by Roman soldiers Egypt by an large was not a slave owning state while the Romans undoubtedly were.

The difference between the pyramids
is they weren't built by Christians.
Colston built a church in Bristol.
One of the commandments says
Thou shalt not kill. He followed that one alright.
Baden Powell was a fascist indeed the scouts could have been fashioned on the Hitler youth.
How many peados have infiltrated that organisation over the years

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

I agree in principle with your view on changing history,but times have changed,and my opinion is put them in a museum, where if you want,you can go visit it,and if you don't, it's not in the faces of those it offends?

slavery was wrong mate.. no argument. but it was a while ago..
I don't get whats happening now on so many levels.... where does destroying history stop .. the pyramids are the oldest large structures on earth, built as monuments to kings..by the slaves they owned...we have roman amphitheatres all over Europe built by slaves... then there is democracy.. i really don't see its one person or a few dozen who have the right to make random decisions on what stays or what goes...there have actually been discussions in many cities re street names and statues being guided by their own black communities and dumping it all in the docks was certainly not the view.... long before BLM kicked off.. ..and then Africa. the biggy. you want to protest slavery { not that this lot really care about black lives in general or slavery in general } its the go to place, or at least should be. slavery has been a way of life there for far longer than Europeans could even sail that far.. and Africans would often sell / batter their slaves on to be transported... some countries are beginning to face this embarrassment others not so eager to , understandably... but its not like its some big secret....

This is why I believe things that were acceptable to be in the eyes of the public,and specifically around slavery,are no longer accepted,and this episode with Colston, has highlighted that,I in no way condone violence and looting,but if we want to preserve history,then put the "offensive" items in a museum, that way we preserve the history, and remove what are deemed offensive,from the eyes of those who do not want it in their face on the way to work for instance,I have never said to re write history, as that would be daft imho.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for any offence caused for my actions.

In 1980 at a fancy dress party I went along as Noddy Holder

Then in 1982 dressed as Scooby Doo.

Sincere apologies again.

Why aren't the protesters targeting islamists? is it because they're not white?
The Arab slave trade was responsible for enslaving over 200 million people from the 7th to 15th centuries AD alone, including 150 million Africans, 112 million of which died. Boys between the ages of 8 and 12 were forcibly converted into eunuchs and had their scrotum and penises removed to remove their supposed sexual prowess. 1.5 million European slaves also died, and it was Barbary slave traders constantly raiding the coast of Europe that led Europeans to withdraw from coastal settlements, move inland and construct fortified inland settlements - the first European castles. The Arab slave trade is what started the Atlantic slave trade, when the Portuguese first got in on the trading and profiting of the slave markets. Today, 2.1 million people in Pakistan, 1.2 million in Uzbekistan, 1.06% of the population of Mauritania, 403,800 people in Iraq and 303,200 people in Yemen are slaves, and it’s been going on then since the 7th century conquests and brutal expansions of the Rashidun Caliphate.

Why aren't the protesters targeting islamists? is it because they're not white?
The Arab slave trade was responsible for enslaving over 200 million people from the 7th to 15th centuries AD alone, including 150 million Africans, 112 million of which died. Boys between the ages of 8 and 12 were forcibly converted into eunuchs and had their scrotum and penises removed to remove their supposed sexual prowess. 1.5 million European slaves also died, and it was Barbary slave traders constantly raiding the coast of Europe that led Europeans to withdraw from coastal settlements, move inland and construct fortified inland settlements - the first European castles. The Arab slave trade is what started the Atlantic slave trade, when the Portuguese first got in on the trading and profiting of the slave markets. Today, 2.1 million people in Pakistan, 1.2 million in Uzbekistan, 1.06% of the population of Mauritania, 403,800 people in Iraq and 303,200 people in Yemen are slaves, and it’s been going on then since the 7th century conquests and brutal expansions of the Rashidun Caliphate.

Lundy Island was an Islamic/Barbary slave base in the 17 th century the slavers raided villages in Cornwall Devon and further afield. Is that taught in schools ?

Well, when you look at the Guardians ten great things to come out of Africa..er in fact, dont bother, its not a great read.

This is why I believe things that were acceptable to be in the eyes of the public,and specifically around slavery,are no longer accepted,and this episode with Colston, has highlighted that,I in no way condone violence and looting,but if we want to preserve history,then put the "offensive" items in a museum, that way we preserve the history, and remove what are deemed offensive,from the eyes of those who do not want it in their face on the way to work for instance,I have never said to re write history, as that would be daft imho.

A good question would be who decides what is offensive? A petition was started to have the Colston statue removed a few years ago and attracted 11,000 signatures out of a population of 500,000 which is 2.2% of those living in Bristol.

Should 2.2% of people dictate the removal of a public monument on the remaining 97.8% of the population?

Also the statue of Colston was never erected to glorify his status as a slave trader. It was commissioned in 1875 by the people of Bristol who were grateful for his philanthropy in building schools, churches and hospitals.

Often we are told by 'diversity' campaigners that white people need to be educated. My take is that these 'diversity' campaigners also need to be educated why some monuments exist and they are not all about glorifying slavery or that the boy scouts are an offshoot of Hitler Youth.

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

I agree in principle with your view on changing history,but times have changed,and my opinion is put them in a museum, where if you want,you can go visit it,and if you don't, it's not in the faces of those it offends?

slavery was wrong mate.. no argument. but it was a while ago..
I don't get whats happening now on so many levels.... where does destroying history stop .. the pyramids are the oldest large structures on earth, built as monuments to kings..by the slaves they owned...we have roman amphitheatres all over Europe built by slaves... then there is democracy.. i really don't see its one person or a few dozen who have the right to make random decisions on what stays or what goes...there have actually been discussions in many cities re street names and statues being guided by their own black communities and dumping it all in the docks was certainly not the view.... long before BLM kicked off.. ..and then Africa. the biggy. you want to protest slavery { not that this lot really care about black lives in general or slavery in general } its the go to place, or at least should be. slavery has been a way of life there for far longer than Europeans could even sail that far.. and Africans would often sell / batter their slaves on to be transported... some countries are beginning to face this embarrassment others not so eager to , understandably... but its not like its some big secret....

This is why I believe things that were acceptable to be in the eyes of the public,and specifically around slavery,are no longer accepted,and this episode with Colston, has highlighted that,I in no way condone violence and looting,but if we want to preserve history,then put the "offensive" items in a museum, that way we preserve the history, and remove what are deemed offensive,from the eyes of those who do not want it in their face on the way to work for instance,I have never said to re write history, as that would be daft imho.

deemed offensive by who ? where have the campaigns and protests at local levels been against these statues. ? the answer is they've amounted to nothing due to lack of support....
and I got to ask... if you met half a dozen flat out racists down your local , talk to them and over time educate/ change their attitudes completely to a point these 6 guys do more for minorities in your area than anyone else ever has.... the local community are so appreciative they erect a plaque... who the fck is some college kid/ racist activist 200 years later to turn up and rip it down

I thought we lived in a democracy we seem to be bending over backwards to appease a minority asking for statues to be removed and streets to be renamed.
I suggest that before any of this is done there needs to be consultations with all parts of the community. If this is not done then I believe you risk building disgruntlement and division.

and yet when Trump started to make strong statements against looting and rioting . you were the first on here accusing him of throwing petrol on the fire...

and no you can not re write history , its ok throwing a statue In the harbour but what about those African countries complicit in the slave trade... blow them up ?

I agree in principle with your view on changing history,but times have changed,and my opinion is put them in a museum, where if you want,you can go visit it,and if you don't, it's not in the faces of those it offends?

slavery was wrong mate.. no argument. but it was a while ago..
I don't get whats happening now on so many levels.... where does destroying history stop .. the pyramids are the oldest large structures on earth, built as monuments to kings..by the slaves they owned...we have roman amphitheatres all over Europe built by slaves... then there is democracy.. i really don't see its one person or a few dozen who have the right to make random decisions on what stays or what goes...there have actually been discussions in many cities re street names and statues being guided by their own black communities and dumping it all in the docks was certainly not the view.... long before BLM kicked off.. ..and then Africa. the biggy. you want to protest slavery { not that this lot really care about black lives in general or slavery in general } its the go to place, or at least should be. slavery has been a way of life there for far longer than Europeans could even sail that far.. and Africans would often sell / batter their slaves on to be transported... some countries are beginning to face this embarrassment others not so eager to , understandably... but its not like its some big secret....

This is why I believe things that were acceptable to be in the eyes of the public,and specifically around slavery,are no longer accepted,and this episode with Colston, has highlighted that,I in no way condone violence and looting,but if we want to preserve history,then put the "offensive" items in a museum, that way we preserve the history, and remove what are deemed offensive,from the eyes of those who do not want it in their face on the way to work for instance,I have never said to re write history, as that would be daft imho.

deemed offensive by who ? where have the campaigns and protests at local levels been against these statues. ? the answer is they've amounted to nothing due to lack of support....
and I got to ask... if you met half a dozen flat out racists down your local , talk to them and over time educate/ change their attitudes completely to a point these 6 guys do more for minorities in your area than anyone else ever has.... the local community are so appreciative they erect a plaque... who the fck is some college kid/ racist activist 200 years later to turn up and rip it down

I haven't said anyone had the right to tear it down? Why not in a museum? That way it should appease the majority of people? After all,if you want to see the statues etc you would still be able to,its just an opinion.as I have said I do not condone criminal behaviour at ANY March/protest, as all it does,is detract from the cause,and the headlines change drop racism,to out of control anarchists etc and the reason gets lost.those who are doing the damage at most protests,are not there for the same reasons as most,and hijack the headlines,time after time.