Sat May 30, 2020 11:40 am
Sat May 30, 2020 12:53 pm
City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Incidently, the support for businesses afforded by WG via Business Wales is massive.
Sat May 30, 2020 12:58 pm
City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Incidently, the support for businesses afforded by WG via Business Wales is massive.
Sat May 30, 2020 1:22 pm
pembroke allan wrote:davids wrote:bluebirdoct1962 wrote:Bonner wrote:He can’t relax rules more as. testing and track and trace nowhere near ready.
Passing over orders to start tracking from next week , yet no system in place, even expecting people to record by using paper trace if on line system not in place.. awful management by the welsh assembly,
Really annoying as my daughter is a ENvironmental Health Inspector and is one of the people assigned to do the tracking and tracing. She said that she’s all ready to go but is held back by the WAG red tape which is ridiculous.
The words "organise", "brewery" and "piss up" spring to mind.
Tracking and tracing is great if people cooperate? But would you admit being near to someone who as been positive and be 14 days in isolation with just statuary sick pay of £98 week? Also got until end oct to get this up and running and effective as furlough ends and people will have to go to work! But given WG attempts at testing wouldn't expect it to work.
Sat May 30, 2020 2:19 pm
City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Incidently, the support for businesses afforded by WG via Business Wales is massive.
Sat May 30, 2020 4:08 pm
skidemin wrote:City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Incidently, the support for businesses afforded by WG via Business Wales is massive.
being confined and oppressed does zero for the overall health of our nation.. covid really is not the only thing that kills people.. we lost 10 people to it yesterday mostly old and already ill.... we normally lose around 70 to all sorts of other illnesses.. that 70 figure is rising , will continue to and is the one out of the 2 that's most likely to kill the most...
Sat May 30, 2020 4:21 pm
City in Cwmbran wrote:skidemin wrote:City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Incidently, the support for businesses afforded by WG via Business Wales is massive.
being confined and oppressed does zero for the overall health of our nation.. covid really is not the only thing that kills people.. we lost 10 people to it yesterday mostly old and already ill.... we normally lose around 70 to all sorts of other illnesses.. that 70 figure is rising , will continue to and is the one out of the 2 that's most likely to kill the most...
A wild guess here, but I imagine there will be many who are against continued caution who will 'break out' of their confinement and oppression.
Others will heed the advice and stay relatively locked down. As others have aluded to, others will sadly have little choice other than to go back to work.
There are plenty of opinions. Facts are less available. And how they are interpreted is not an obvious art.
But I still go back to my initial point..... I still don't get the vitriol aimed at Drakeford.
Stay safe all.
Sat May 30, 2020 4:31 pm
skidemin wrote:moonboots wrote:Isawgarystevensscoreagoal wrote:It's a shambles, complete and utter shambles.
Where is the science that says covid will spread less if people don't travel more than 5 miles? It's what they do when they get there that matters.
Never ever thought I'd be thinking this but maybe some civil unrest is what is needed to bring some sense and reality to our deluded politicians.
What an utterly stupid thing to say. Unbelievable!!
I agree mate, where on earth did he get the 5 mile idea from ?
Sat May 30, 2020 4:52 pm
Sun May 31, 2020 5:41 am
rumpo kid wrote:City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Your cretin detector is malfunctioning..it’s because of Labour Wales is the poor relation in Britain. Twenty years of governance, and we’re still nowhere.
Sun May 31, 2020 9:00 am
Sun May 31, 2020 9:10 am
City in Cwmbran wrote:rumpo kid wrote:City in Cwmbran wrote:I don't get all this anti-Drakeford stuff. I am not an apologist for him in any way, but I just don't get it.
Nicola Sturgeon, carries a huge wave of popular Scotish opinion for the way she has managed events over the border. They trust her and accept that she is taking decisions based on the safety of the people of Scotland. She has been going forward at the same pace as Drakeford.
Some might say that UK Government have fudged lots of things during the panedemic. Many are scared that in their haste to get the wheels of commerce turning again and protect the Treasury, that BJ is pushing on too speedily. Senior scientists from SAGE are publically saying that the pace of the unlocking of lockdown by BJ is not based on the science and is a political decision.
Poor old Drakeford, gets it in the neck for daring to be more cautious with the health and well being of the Welsh people. A Welsh public that demographically is the most unwell and least well off citizens in the Union.
As I say, I just don't get it.
Your cretin detector is malfunctioning..it’s because of Labour Wales is the poor relation in Britain. Twenty years of governance, and we’re still nowhere.
Pembroke Allen.....I get your antipathy. At least it is based on something, even if the decision was likely complex.
But Rumpo Kid, do you not think how well Wales is able to set out it's store is more dependant on the Barnett Formula than the decicions people make in speading the insufficient funding?
Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 am
Sun May 31, 2020 12:55 pm
City in Cwmbran wrote:"..... this debate is not to do with Welsh governance its about the ineptitude of drakeford"
Oh, I see.
Inept or otherwise, all it can be is an opinion.
His caution might well be applauded when we see the effects of England breaking out.
Sun May 31, 2020 2:34 pm
City in Cwmbran wrote:"..... this debate is not to do with Welsh governance its about the ineptitude of drakeford"
Oh, I see.
Inept or otherwise, all it can be is an opinion.
His caution might well be applauded when we see the effects of England breaking out.
Sun May 31, 2020 2:40 pm
pembroke allan wrote:City in Cwmbran wrote:"..... this debate is not to do with Welsh governance its about the ineptitude of drakeford"
Oh, I see.
Inept or otherwise, all it can be is an opinion.
His caution might well be applauded when we see the effects of England breaking out.
That is exactly what hes waiting for so that he can get on his soapbox and shout look at me I'm clever I knew there would be a spike in corvid as soon as any lifting of restrictions were made? Dont need to be brain scientist to know that there is strong possibility of a spike it's happened around world! So guess we wait until next year to see if it is safe to go outside the door! Meanwhile businesses go bust by the score and he collects his pay sitting on his soapbox "WAITING"....
Sun May 31, 2020 3:13 pm
Sun May 31, 2020 7:17 pm
davids wrote:pembroke allan wrote:City in Cwmbran wrote:"..... this debate is not to do with Welsh governance its about the ineptitude of drakeford"
Oh, I see.
Inept or otherwise, all it can be is an opinion.
His caution might well be applauded when we see the effects of England breaking out.
That is exactly what hes waiting for so that he can get on his soapbox and shout look at me I'm clever I knew there would be a spike in corvid as soon as any lifting of restrictions were made? Dont need to be brain scientist to know that there is strong possibility of a spike it's happened around world! So guess we wait until next year to see if it is safe to go outside the door! Meanwhile businesses go bust by the score and he collects his pay sitting on his soapbox "WAITING"....
And if there is no significant spike in England he'll just say that by waiting to see whether there was a second spike he was just being extra cautious and was proven to be right.
I'm just waiting for the tw*t to claim that the reduction in traffic over the past few months has shown how right he was to claim there was no need for a relief road around Newport!!
Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:32 am
Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:38 am
Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:37 am
Foghorn65 wrote:There's very little proven factual science behind the majority of Covid related restrictions.
R rate?
2m social distancing?
Shopping, police spot checks, fines, etc.
Everything is set up to hopefully protect us and contain/reduce the spread but with every nation varying it's guidelines just makes for a confused message
Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am
piledriver64 wrote:Firstly, Drakeford keeps telling us the R rate will dictate how/when we come out of this. The problem is that by his own words he "thinks the R rate is between 0.80 and 1.0" that's a big range in the scheme of things and, given it's importance, shouldn't you know what it is not guess, even if it is still a range ?
Secondly, surely we should now be looking at what the R rate is in the general community and what it is in Care Homes/Hospitals separately ? The reason I say that is that, in the main, those institutions are virtually locked down. Therefore whilst it's been awful for those of us with loved ones in such places at least the infection is very unlikely to be transmitted out from there. The R rate in the general community will be the key moving forward so we should be told what it is to ensure that these politicians aren't just hiding behind something that doesn't back their approach.
Thirdly, is it me but is there some strange logic that I can't see behind the driving 5 miles restriction ? Surely it's about your destination rather than the distance ? If I drive direct to anywhere in Wales, unless I'm spitting or sneezing out of the window of my car I'm less likely to transfer or contract the virus than if I was walking 5 minutes to my local shop. Therefore, if I were to visit friends/family 100 miles away with social distancing why is that not acceptable yet walking around Cardiff is fine ?
A lot of this is about safeguarding the rural communities and tough luck to those who live in Cardiff. If they change the approach to travelling to work in the next review that could mean 80,000-100,000 people a day commuting into the capital. Nothing mentioned about the plans in place for that, but woe betide anyone travelling to a safer environment on the coast in significantly smaller numbers !! There is no science behind this, and certainly little fairness.
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:28 pm
Foghorn65 wrote:There's very little proven factual science behind the majority of Covid related restrictions.
R rate?
2m social distancing?
Shopping, police spot checks, fines, etc.
Everything is set up to hopefully protect us and contain/reduce the spread but with every nation varying it's guidelines just makes for a confused message
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:41 pm
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:45 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:Foghorn65 wrote:There's very little proven factual science behind the majority of Covid related restrictions.
R rate?
2m social distancing?
Shopping, police spot checks, fines, etc.
Everything is set up to hopefully protect us and contain/reduce the spread but with every nation varying it's guidelines just makes for a confused message
Beg to differ on the R rate-overall its probably an average with regional variations but the logic and science behind it is easy to understand and is beyond question in my view.As for the other things they'll improve as the knowledge of this disease does.
Whats worries me though is that the politicians seem to be following the science less and listening more to big business.
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:39 pm
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:50 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:Foghorn65 wrote:There's very little proven factual science behind the majority of Covid related restrictions.
R rate?
2m social distancing?
Shopping, police spot checks, fines, etc.
Everything is set up to hopefully protect us and contain/reduce the spread but with every nation varying it's guidelines just makes for a confused message
Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:34 pm
skidemin wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Foghorn65 wrote:There's very little proven factual science behind the majority of Covid related restrictions.
R rate?
2m social distancing?
Shopping, police spot checks, fines, etc.
Everything is set up to hopefully protect us and contain/reduce the spread but with every nation varying it's guidelines just makes for a confused message
Beg to differ on the R rate-overall its probably an average with regional variations but the logic and science behind it is easy to understand and is beyond question in my view.As for the other things they'll improve as the knowledge of this disease does.
Whats worries me though is that the politicians seem to be following the science less and listening more to big business.[/quote
please do tell how they work this R rate out and what figures they are using... ive never seen any figures fluctuate so much in my life... its like asking someone how long does it take to drive from A to B but telling them you don't know how far A is from B or how fast the car is going..
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:01 am
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:16 am
TopCat CCFC wrote:Coronavirus: Tory MPs demand evidence for five-mile travel advice
Eleven Conservative MPs have called on Welsh ministers to explain the "scientific basis" behind the decision to allow more activity outdoors - but only locally.
On Monday people in Wales were given the right to go outdoors and meet others from another household, but only within a local area.
A restriction of five miles was given as a "general rule".
The Welsh Government was asked for comment.
First Minister Mark Drakeford said the decision aimed to reduce the risk of coronavirus spreading.
The five-mile guidance has been heavily criticised by Senedd Welsh Conservatives, who have accused the Welsh Government of ignoring the needs of rural communities.
Scientific advisors to the Conservative UK government have expressed concern at the speed lockdown is being eased in England. In England, the UK government has allowed for unlimited travel and for groups of six to meet.
A letter penned by Ynys Mon MP Virginia Crosbie, and signed by all Welsh Tory MPs barring the Welsh Secretary Simon Hart and Wales Office minister David TC Davies, asked for the scientific basis for the travel rule and interpretation of it "given that in England there is no restriction on how far you can travel".
It asked if "delays in linking up to the UK testing portal and delays in rolling out Wales' own track and trace digital platform impacted the reluctance to lift measures".
Contact tracing began on Monday, although an IT system to support it will not be in place until next week.
The letter also asked if any assessment had been done of the public health impact of an "overextended lockdown" in Wales, and of any mental health and educational impacts from delaying reopening the economy.