'WHY IS THE UK EVEN THINKING OF EASING OUR LOCKDOWN" SAYS

Very concerned.

Thursday 7th May 2020


ITV

Andy Burnham (Labour) Mayor of Manchester:

"We were late in starting our lockdown in the Uk and for me this is premature by at least two weeks in thinking of easing the lockdown when the North West is actually getting worse with Cov-19."

"I do not want it eased by areas, we should all come out of this together,but at this moment the Uk is not ready."

"Yes the London figures are dropping, but many other areas of the Uk are not."

"We are one country and we will celebrate VE day tomorrow together."

"Lets take this very carefully, if cases continue to grow, then it will only spread again around the country."

“Separating areas won’t work in the UK, as people are travelling back and for, so let’s continue this lockdown together.”


"Just take a look at Europe,sadly the Uk is now at the top of the table of deaths as Europe has taken a lot stricter rules than us."

"We must continue the lockdown for at least a couple more weeks."

"'For me talking about playing football in the Uk is also premature."




Currently:


30,076 have now died in the UK


13,616 are currently in hospital with the Virus(Cov-19)


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213752

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Here Here

Here Here

I second that


Andy Burnham, I have always had a lot of respect for him and he would of made a good Prime Minister in my opinion.

Is this Boris new plans?

PM BORIS JOHNSON:

Unlimited excercise / why not just say NO lockdown as really for many anyway there never has been / Idiot

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ITV


Dr Hilary:

“We must be very careful about easing this lockdown, please let’s wait for another couple of weeks.”

Would he have the same opinion if he was on day Anglesey or the isle of white ?

Places like Cornwall and Devon , northern parts of Scotland and other secluded areas have very little if any of this virus. Is it fair to keep them on lockdown because large citys still have a issue ?
Places like London , Manchester and Birmingham are still bad because they are mainly the ones who did not listen to the lockdown rules and carried on as normal. Now they are regretting it other areas who complied with the rules should not be punished if rules can be relaxed safely.

I agree the lockdown should be extended tonight but some areas can be relaxed as long as travelling in and out of those areas is banned

Is this Boris new plans?

PM BORIS JOHNSON:

Unlimited excercise / why not just say NO lockdown as really for many anyway there never has been / Idiot

Looks pretty sensible to me, we have to get the economy going we can't keep paying furlough forever, and there has to be a gradual return to normal.

Stage one looks fine, I can't see any issues and we are almost at that stage now anyway.

Stage two, we have to get things moving and this is a good step forward.

Potentially from there on it looks a bit rushed, pubs and restaurants look especially optimistic for a return by August, but let's take it one step at a time and see how it goes, we can always stop or defer the stages.

We need to use common sense if people are obese, have high blood pressure, diabetes or heart conditions, or any other vulnerability they take extra care for themselves and their family.

Would he have the same opinion if he was on day Anglesey or the isle of white ?

Places like Cornwall and Devon , northern parts of Scotland and other secluded areas have very little if any of this virus. Is it fair to keep them on lockdown because large citys still have a issue ?
Places like London , Manchester and Birmingham are still bad because they are mainly the ones who did not listen to the lockdown rules and carried on as normal. Now they are regretting it other areas who complied with the rules should not be punished if rules can be relaxed safely.

I agree the lockdown should be extended tonight but some areas can be relaxed as long as travelling in and out of those areas is banned

We have to start moving forward, but with the movement of people, these quiet areas will probably see an increase in cases, as people from the City's bring it out into the country.

Don't forget it travelled from China to Italy and Iran, and then the rest of the World in weeks.

It's fine places like Cornwall saying don't come here, but they can't say that forever they need the tourist's money, and by the look of the above, the second homes will be filling up in weeks.

Would he have the same opinion if he was on day Anglesey or the isle of white ?

Places like Cornwall and Devon , northern parts of Scotland and other secluded areas have very little if any of this virus. Is it fair to keep them on lockdown because large citys still have a issue ?
Places like London , Manchester and Birmingham are still bad because they are mainly the ones who did not listen to the lockdown rules and carried on as normal. Now they are regretting it other areas who complied with the rules should not be punished if rules can be relaxed safely.

I agree the lockdown should be extended tonight but some areas can be relaxed as long as travelling in and out of those areas is banned

We have to start moving forward, but with the movement of people, these quiet areas will probably see an increase in cases, as people from the City's bring it out into the country.

Don't forget it travelled from China to Italy and Iran, and then the rest of the World in weeks.

It's fine places like Cornwall saying don't come here, but they can't say that forever they need the tourist's money, and by the look of the above, the second homes will be filling up in weeks.

Sorry Thomas didn't make it clear, but I don't think they will ban people going into quiet areas with low cases like Cornwall, the World is going to have to move on, and it's unenforceable, besides they rely on the tourists for income and can't stay completely shut for another year or two waiting for a vaccine.

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Is this Boris new plans?

PM BORIS JOHNSON:

Unlimited excercise / why not just say NO lockdown as really for many anyway there never has been / Idiot

Looks pretty sensible to me, we have to get the economy going we can't keep paying furlough forever, and there has to be a gradual return to normal.

Stage one looks fine, I can't see any issues and we are almost at that stage now anyway.

Stage two, we have to get things moving and this is a good step forward.

Potentially from there on it looks a bit rushed, pubs and restaurants look especially optimistic for a return by August, but let's take it one step at a time and see how it goes, we can always stop or defer the stages.

We need to use common sense if people are obese, have high blood pressure, diabetes or heart conditions, or any other vulnerability they take extra care for themselves and their family.

Unlimited exercise

Common sense exactly my words for weeks, but many abused things before .

Then there is NO lockdown as it was bad enough before.

Oops Sorry there never has been a real lockdown

Barcelona are not lifting their lockdown why because there are still many people dying .

Are there still people not dying in their hundreds in the UK on a daily basics?

Looks perfectly reasonable to me slow and steady relaxing of rules

I agree with Andy Burnham (Labour) Mayor of Manchester he talks a lot of sense and I can’t be even bothered arguing with the same old posters when I have proven time and time again.

Wait a couple more weeks



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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213752

SPAIN:

Official figures from the Health Ministry released on Thursday showed that there were 213 coronavirus-related fatalities in the last 24 hours, a slight fall from the 244 recorded on Wednesday.

But the number of total Covid-19 deaths in Spain has now passed another grim milestone, with 26,070 recorded victims, according to today’s official figures which includes care homes and private homes .

The number of infections since the epidemic began, as measured by the more reliable PCR testing, stands at 221,447, a daily rise of 754.

In the past 24 hours, 2,509 coronavirus patients have recovered from the disease, bringing the total number of discharged patients to 128,511. This represents a 2% rise of the total.

Speaking at the government’s daily press conference on Thursday, Fernando Simón, the director of the Health Ministry’s Coordination Center for Health Alerts and Emergencies, said the figures were in line with the falling trend seen over the past few weeks.






It says something at the bottom of the page about Madrid finding old cases from care homes etc- but its been happening for days now and been 3 to 400 each day.

The TOTAL figures are correct as they are adding them into the total, but it makes the daily cases look better

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WELL HOPEFULLY THIS IS TRUE



Easing lockdown too soon 'worst thing we can do', warns Boris Johnson ahead of revealing exit strategy on Sunday


Thursday 7th May 2020


ITV
Video report by ITV News Political Reporter Shehab Khan


Boris Johnson is not expected to set out a road map on how the UK will exit lockdown until Sunday – three days after the government must review the current restrictions.

The government said it would consider whether to extend lockdown restrictions on May 7, but ahead of the deadline the prime minister posted a video saying easing the rules now would be the "worst thing we could do".

In the video message on Twitter he said the UK could only move to the "second phase of this conflict" once the "five tests" had been met.




The five tests are:
The NHS must have sufficient
Easing lockdown too soon 'worst thing we can do', warns Boris Johnson ahead of revealing exit strategy on Sunday
Play Video
Video report by ITV News Political Reporter Shehab Khan
Boris Johnson is not expected to set out a road map on how the UK will exit lockdown until Sunday – three days after the government must review the current restrictions.

The government said it would consider whether to extend lockdown restrictions on May 7, but ahead of the deadline the prime minister posted a video saying easing the rules now would be the "worst thing we could do".

In the video message on Twitter he said the UK could only move to the "second phase of this conflict" once the "five tests" had been met.



The five tests are:


The NHS must have sufficient critical care capacity
There must be a sustained and consistent fall in daily deaths
The infection rate must be decreasing to “manageable levels”
There must be enough PPE and testing supply
Any adjustments must not lead to a second peak which could overwhelm the health service. critical care capacity
There must be a sustained and consistent fall in daily deaths
The infection rate must be decreasing to “manageable levels”
There must be enough PPE and testing supply


Any adjustments must not lead to a second peak which could overwhelm the health service.

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Throughout this crisis our Government has it will follow the "Scientific" advice and to back this up a couple of weeks into the lockdown by repeating, everyday, at the Downing Street briefing that restrictions will remain in place until each of their 5 Tests have been met.

If you look at those tests how many do you think have been met? In my opinion as of today only 1 test has been met and that's number 1.

"Making sure the NHS can cope and continues to have sufficient capacity"

in my opinion none of the other 4 have been met in fact some are a long way from being at a point where you could seriously argue that they have been met.

As far as the science goes this week on Monday Jonathan Van Tam said that the number of positive tests being recorded that these numbers still need to comedown further, yesterday over 6000 positive tests were recorded an increase of over 1700 on the day before. In the Welsh briefing today it has been said 1 in 5 tests in Wales are positive. To still have these levels of positive tests 7 weeks into lockdown tells me there can be NO relaxation of restrictions but rather they should be tightened.

I hope Boris Johnson is not going to make a knee jerk reaction to the UK recording the highest number of deaths in Europe and decide to stop following the science that will be a huge mistake.

Coronavirus outbreak
‘Complacent’ UK draws global criticism for Covid-19 response

The Guardian


By Jon Henley and Guardian correspondents



From Italy to Australia, critics have accused a “complacent” British government of “massively underestimating” the gravity of the coronavirus crisis after the UK reported the highest death toll in Europe.

While Rai Uno, the Italian state broadcaster’s flagship channel, gave prominent play to the news that Britain had recorded “more than 32,000 deaths, the highest total in Europe exceeding even Italy”, the Corriere della Serra daily went a good way further.

The situation in the UK was “like a nightmare from which you cannot awake, but in which you landed because of your own fault or stupidity”, the influential liberal-conservative paper said, adding that Britain seemed “a prisoner of itself”.

The country that was “the most reluctant in Europe to impose a lockdown has become the most cautious to start reopening”, with public opinion frightened of the consequences and Boris Johnson eager to avoid breaking Italy’s “sad record”.

Experts have warned against direct international comparisons of Covid-19 death tolls, saying different counting methods and many other factors make such exercises unreliable and it may take months if not years to draw firm conclusions.

However, Beppe Severgnini, an opinion writer on Corriere della Sera, said it seemed clear Britain had “lost the advantage that fate and Italy gave it – for example, the first two weeks of the outbreak in Italy when it was obvious the virus was spreading”.

The British government “did not pay enough attention to what was happening here, while Germany responded very well”, Severgnini said. “The two great British virtues – understatement and grace under fire – have turned out to not be a blessing.”

He said the UK was served neither by “a very weak cabinet” nor Johnson’s character: “He’s not Trump, though there is something similar in their approaches, but in this kind of challenge you need to really work hard on details. He’s not a details person.”

Beyond Italy – where the Covid-19 death toll, which does not include suspected cases, is just over 29,000 – German commentators were also critical. Britain has emerged as Europe’s “problem child” of the Covid-19 crisis, the DPA news agency’s London correspondent Christoph Meyer wrote.

“Only a few weeks ago, Britain had the reputation of a country in which the coronavirus was only spreading cautiously,” Meyer wrote in an opinion piece published in several newspapers in Germany and Austria.

“Politicians were already slapping each other on their backs and praising the health system, which was better prepared for the pandemic than any other country in the world. But that has quickly revealed itself to be a fallacy … There are now many signs that the government in London massively underestimated the pandemic.”



In a piece this week drawing on the British prime minister’s frequent deployment of classical allusions, the London correspondent of Spain’s left-leaning El País queried suggestions that the prime minister was some latter-day Odysseus.

“The conservative press tries to present Johnson as a man of reborn wisdom”, whose experience of Covid-19 had led him to “lash himself to the mast to resist the siren calls” of those demanding the lockdown be lifted soon, wrote Rafa de Miguel.




“In fact, it’s far from clear whether such determination is the fruit of careful calculation – or the result of simply closing one’s eyes when there’s no other option.”

Officials in Greece, which has been widely praised for its handling of the pandemic, have watched London’s handling of the crisis with disbelief, with epidemiologists also criticising the UK government’s initial embrace of a “herd immunity” policy.

The progressive daily Ethnos described Johnson as “more dangerous than coronavirus”, saying one of the crisis’s greatest tragedies was that “incompetent leaders” such as Johnson and Donald Trump were “at the helm at a time of such emergency”.

Before changing tack, Johnson “had gone out and essentially asked Britons … to accept death”, wrote the columnist Giorgos Skafidas.

Irish commentators also expressed dismay at the UK’s record. “Ministers of slim talent have bumbled through daily briefings and now big business-Conservative donors are impatient to reverse a shutdown so contrary to Brexiteer dreams,” Fionnuala O’Connor wrote in the broadly nationalist Irish News.

“Boris Johnson needs all his showman’s tricks now to sell the phasing out of a lockdown which was less than effective, at least in part, because of his stubborn libertarianism.”

Outside Europe, criticism has been strongest in Australia and New Zealand, both of which imposed strict, early lockdowns and have contained their outbreaks. Scott Morrison, the Australian prime minister, said no country that had pursued herd immunity had achieved it, describing the strategy as a “death sentence”.

David Hunter, an Australian-educated professor of epidemiology and medicine at Oxford University, told the conservative Sydney Morning Herald the British response was “not a model to follow. It has one of the worst epidemics in Europe and the world … Some aspects of the response have almost certainly contributed to the high mortality”.

Hunter particularly criticised the British decision – in contrast to Australia and New Zealand – not to close its borders early. Mike Rann, a former Australian high commissioner to Britain, told the paper Britain had “handled the earliest stages negligently”, lamenting “a shambles of mixed messaging, poor organisation and a complacent attitude that what was happening in Italy wouldn’t happen here”.

A UK government spokesperson said: “This is an unprecedented global pandemic and we have taken the right steps at the right time to combat it, guided by the best scientific advice.

“The government has been working day and night to battle coronavirus, delivering a strategy designed to protect our NHS and save lives. Herd immunity has never been a policy or goal.”

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We should have started the lockdown at least
2 weeks before we did and enforced it more strictly

We should have started the lockdown at least
2 weeks before we did and enforced it more strictly

1 100% agree with you

This week both the window cleaner and communal gardeners have turned up and done their contracted jobs. Not sure you can describe either as 'key workers' but effectively they are back at work as though there is no lock down.

So whether it is official or not the lock down has been partially lifted in the service and manufacturing industries and I expect that to gain momentum in the coming weeks.

I have no idea if this will lead to a 'second wave' of virus infection as it did in 1918/19 with Spanish flu but surely it has to be a distinct possibility?

We should have started the lockdown at least
2 weeks before we did and enforced it more strictly

I agree with you we should have locked-down earlier but it's because of hindsight, it was slow to start but spread very quickly, here's a thread from the 3rd March, no one screaming for a lockdown back then.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213250&p=2191205#p2191205

Go tell the self employed they cannot go to work to feed their children.Go tell the 3.5/4 million who work in hospitality that unless something is done by late summer they too will lose their jobs.Go tell those confined to tower blocks with three kids that they have to isolate for 2 more months .Go tell the cancer victims who have had their appointments cancelled for treatment.
Many of my family will be jobless if this carries on for two more months...fact.We have a choice to make here.Where I live near a beach I have never seen so many police or paddy wagons.A few months ago if you were burgled or had your car nicked or were attacked the bland response was oh there is not much we can do we will send someone round in a week lack of resources you know.Guess what I witnessed today two Police Officers on horseback riding up my lane peering into gardens around lunchtime!! What the f**k is going on?This weekend the seafront will crawl with Old Bill and people are getting fed up.As for the science well that has worked has it not ?? The two metre rule is highly contentious with no real scientific hard facts to back it 100% it is I believe a figure plucked out to suit some who really are not sure.It reminds me of the five fruit and vej a day bollocks. Anyhow spleen vented one thing is certain much more of this and we will have 5-6 million out of work what then social and economic carnage.

So what you are saying then jobless or lives, we should only come out of lockdown when it is safe to do so! why dont people realise that? and the 5 fruit and veg a day is proven for good health. Can you find something else to moan about. We are doing our best to cope with this covid19 nothing like it in my lifetime!
PS, Lets worry about unemployment when people stop dying

Go tell the self employed they cannot go to work to feed their children.Go tell the 3.5/4 million who work in hospitality that unless something is done by late summer they too will lose their jobs.Go tell those confined to tower blocks with three kids that they have to isolate for 2 more months .Go tell the cancer victims who have had their appointments cancelled for treatment.
Many of my family will be jobless if this carries on for two more months...fact.We have a choice to make here.Where I live near a beach I have never seen so many police or paddy wagons.A few months ago if you were burgled or had your car nicked or were attacked the bland response was oh there is not much we can do we will send someone round in a week lack of resources you know.Guess what I witnessed today two Police Officers on horseback riding up my lane peering into gardens around lunchtime!! What the f**k is going on?This weekend the seafront will crawl with Old Bill and people are getting fed up.As for the science well that has worked has it not ?? The two metre rule is highly contentious with no real scientific hard facts to back it 100% it is I believe a figure plucked out to suit some who really are not sure.It reminds me of the five fruit and vej a day bollocks. Anyhow spleen vented one thing is certain much more of this and we will have 5-6 million out of work what then social and economic carnage.

You make an excellent point. In an ideal world we would all stay at home, stay safe and let the government pay our wages for the next 6-12 months

Unfortunately, we don’t live in an ideal world. While countless millions of people have been able to sit at home picking up their wages, spare a thought for people like my son and daughter who are both psychiatric nurses and still have to go to their hospital and work 4 twelve hour shifts a week putting themselves on the front line and putting their health at risk. Is that fair on them?

Is it fair on them both that their taxes are going to go up considerably over the next 4/5 years to help pay the bill for the furloughed workers who are able to stay home safe and sound??

Also, I have very good friends who have spent the last 10 years building up a successful bed and breakfast business and last year remortgaged their property to buy an apartment which they have done up and where going to let out as a holiday home. Because they pay themselves a dividend they are getting very little financial help from the government and their income is virtually zero.
They are worried sick that they are living on the last of their savings and with no end in sight for them will probably have to sell up almost certainly at a loss and lose everything they have worked so hard for.

So, while keeping the lockdown going for as long as possible might seem the right thing to do, spare a thought for the people living on the edge who could lose everything if it goes on much longer

Yet this article would tend to suggest that maybe lockdowns aren't the main way of stopping the spread of the virus.

Look guys, I'm not trying to say what's right or wrong because I have absolutely no real idea what's going on but what this does show is that there are so many differing theories and views about this at the moment that it's impossible to know what to believe or not to believe!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kdown.html

It looks like PM Boris Johnson has once again confused everyone.

The Welsh & Scottish leaders don’t agree either to ease the lockdown.

The Welsh & Scottish leaders don’t agree either to ease the lockdown.

Wales - Scotland and even N.Ireland can do as they please -

Restrictions on people’s movement are set out in laws that differ in each separate UK nation - England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - and can be adapted differently.

This has led to some differences - for example only Wales has made it illegal to leave your house for exercise more than once a day. There are no daily limits elsewhere in the UK.

The power to shut and reopen schools and manage pubic transport is also held by each UK nation. As is the matter of social distancing in the workplace - Scotland and Wales differ legally to England and Northern Ireland, where the two-metre rule is not a requirement.

However some decisions, such as on border control at ports of entry and alcohol licensing, are taken by the UK government.

It is also worth noting that other decisions relevant to lockdowns - for example, whether to close parks - are taken at an even more local level by councils.

This week both the window cleaner and communal gardeners have turned up and done their contracted jobs. Not sure you can describe either as 'key workers' but effectively they are back at work as though there is no lock down.

So whether it is official or not the lock down has been partially lifted in the service and manufacturing industries and I expect that to gain momentum in the coming weeks.

I have no idea if this will lead to a 'second wave' of virus infection as it did in 1918/19 with Spanish flu but surely it has to be a distinct possibility?

They were never stopped working they chose to stop themselves.
A window cleaner working alone has pretty much Zero chance of infecting anyone or picking it up himself. Same goes for a gardener.
They cannot do the job from at home so they can carry on with social distancing in mind .