LOCKDOWN --- HAVE WE GONE TO FAR ???

It has according to Dr Max Pemberton

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... ERTON.html

Could/should it start to be lifted in ten days?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kdown.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11326344/ ... overnment/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -toll.html

VIEWS?

I guess we will never truly know, there is so much conflicting information, people have been saying the UK has been far to lenient with lock down measures the last month, but to date the numbers dont suggest it compared to other countries...i will wait for the worst is still to come response.
People demanding tougher lockdowns for months and months, really need to consider the bigger picture. The longterm implications on health, economy and social aspects will be worse than the damage caused by the virus. We were told from the start the social distancing wasn't to stop the virus spreading, but to power demand on the NHS (with icu beds mentioned as the key measure). It seems this has worked, so in theory what has changed? With More and better testing being available, it's time to start working out how we start to return life after the next 3 weeks, like Italy, Spain, Germany and everyone else!

im abiding by it .. but yes 100% .

was internet/public driven

its why governments are all talking about end games /exit strategies and slackening restrictions all while cases and deaths are running at much bigger numbers than when these lockdowns were imposed...Denmark who are about to re open schools and small shops locked down on 513 cases and zero deaths....now they have 3 thousand active cases and deaths everyday they are going to open schools ?

Absolutely not, I honestly believe that if what has been done regarding lockdown had not been done then there would have been thousands more deaths, and it is not all over yet

Absolutely not, I honestly believe that if what has been done regarding lockdown had not been done then there would have been thousands more deaths, and it is not all over yet

Certainly it must be the case that there would have been many more deaths but the question is how long do you keep the lockdown going?

The longer it goes on the more damage is being done to people's health in other ways and of course the economy is getting absolutely ruined with every week that lockdown continues.

People would be perhaps a bit happier if the government were at least to give the impression that there is some light at the end of the tunnel but they are unwilling at the moment to even acknowledge that they are considering an end to the lockdown.

To suggest that any mention of an exit strategy would mean people would start flouting lockdown rules is quite frankly an insult to the millions of people in the UK who have been complying with government restrictions to the letter.

Absolutely not, I honestly believe that if what has been done regarding lockdown had not been done then there would have been thousands more deaths, and it is not all over yet

Certainly it must be the case that there would have been many more deaths but the question is how long do you keep the lockdown going?

The longer it goes on the more damage is being done to people's health in other ways and of course the economy is getting absolutely ruined with every week that lockdown continues.

People would be perhaps a bit happier if the government were at least to give the impression that there is some light at the end of the tunnel but they are unwilling at the moment to even acknowledge that they are considering an end to the lockdown.

To suggest that any mention of an exit strategy would mean people would start flouting lockdown rules is quite frankly an insult to the millions of people in the UK who have been complying with government restrictions to the letter.

sorry mate. but certainly there would be more deaths..?
there really is no evidence outside of China where a lockdown worked... no country that locked down is yet below its pre lockdown rate of daily cases or daily deaths...
the only certainty was and is that thousands without corvid19 who are now overlooked will die , the first 2,500 were last week...

We definitely haven't gone too far.
As well as reducing infections, the lockdown is also buying authorities time. Testing is highly unreliable and still not yet set up for large scale numbers. Huge numbers of NHS staff were themselves off work through undiagnosed self isolating. Huge efforts being made for a vaccine and to better understand how virus evolves. You can argue we should have locked down a week or so earlier. There are though still mixed messages around social distancing and London transport seems a curious exception.

UK government rejects claims lockdown plans 'in limbo'

Claims by the UK opposition Labour party that the government's plans for ending the lockdown are "in limbo" are "wrong", a government official has said.

Labour's leader, Sir Keir Starmer, said on Thursday's BBC coronavirus podcast: “I think that throughout this they've struggled with taking decisions quickly enough".

He added: “We've all been pleased to see that [Boris Johnson]'s come out [from hospital] and is feeling better. And it feels as though they've been in a position probably for a week or 10 days now where it's been difficult for the government to make big decisions."

A Downing St spokesman said: "We have set out five tests which we believe need to be met for us to be able to consider relaxing some of the social distancing measures in place.

"We are at a critical point in our response and we do want people to remain focussed on that core message to stay at home to reduce the transmission of this disease and to save lives."

Boris Johnson absence 'may be causing obstacles'

First Minister Mark Drakeford said Boris Johnson's absence from government could be causing "obstacles."

The prime minister has been away from work since contracting Covid-19.

Mr Drakeford said: “It’s not for me, in a way, to comment on the internal workings of the UK government.

"We had a Cobra meeting yesterday, we had one last week and they were chaired by Dominic Raab.

Mr Drakeford said the UK government was still operating.

He said: "But nobody would imagine that the absence of the prime minister is having no effect on the way the UK government is able to operate, and it may be that it’s causing some additional obstacles to them reaching decisions in a way that they would be able to, had the prime minister been there and fully able to function.”

Absolutely not, I honestly believe that if what has been done regarding lockdown had not been done then there would have been thousands more deaths, and it is not all over yet

Certainly it must be the case that there would have been many more deaths but the question is how long do you keep the lockdown going?

The longer it goes on the more damage is being done to people's health in other ways and of course the economy is getting absolutely ruined with every week that lockdown continues.

People would be perhaps a bit happier if the government were at least to give the impression that there is some light at the end of the tunnel but they are unwilling at the moment to even acknowledge that they are considering an end to the lockdown.

To suggest that any mention of an exit strategy would mean people would start flouting lockdown rules is quite frankly an insult to the millions of people in the UK who have been complying with government restrictions to the letter.

The Westminster government has handled the crisis terribly from the start. The countries that have seen smaller peaks are the ones that have been testing, testing, testing. Of course Our Senedd's 5000 a day test ordered from Roche were hijacked by Westminster, but that's another story. Seriously until everyone has been tested I can't see how the lockdown can stop. Like you I'm sure I know of many who have tested positive but were showing no symptoms at all!

History tells us that more died of the 1918 flu epidemic than died in WWI and here's a timely reminder.

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You will never know "What happens if we did nothing". We only know what happened when we did something.

One thing I do know is academics never have one voice. We chose the opinions of one particular opinion group , but there will always be jealousies,rivalries and contrarian views within academia.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the end with Sweden when we compare apples against apples in the data. There are still many differing view on cause of death within the the wests data and then there is China's view of truthful disclosure.

I struggle to see how developed western countries can vary so much. The have the same equipment, drugs and training. I think we will see there are different more virulent strains in some regions than others and different reporting methods. Only when we have the vaccine and the boffins do their studies will we find out what worked best and what failed.

I have been off for 2 weeks and stopped watching 24 hours news after day 3. They haven't helped especially the normally very good sky, they have almost been as hysterical as Piers Morgan. This is scary enough without all that, but its all about ratings and newspaper hits or circulation i guess.

Absolutely not, I honestly believe that if what has been done regarding lockdown had not been done then there would have been thousands more deaths, and it is not all over yet

Certainly it must be the case that there would have been many more deaths but the question is how long do you keep the lockdown going?

The longer it goes on the more damage is being done to people's health in other ways and of course the economy is getting absolutely ruined with every week that lockdown continues.

People would be perhaps a bit happier if the government were at least to give the impression that there is some light at the end of the tunnel but they are unwilling at the moment to even acknowledge that they are considering an end to the lockdown.

To suggest that any mention of an exit strategy would mean people would start flouting lockdown rules is quite frankly an insult to the millions of people in the UK who have been complying with government restrictions to the letter.

The Westminster government has handled the crisis terribly from the start. The countries that have seen smaller peaks are the ones that have been testing, testing, testing. Of course Our Senedd's 5000 a day test ordered from Roche were hijacked by Westminster, but that's another story. Seriously until everyone has been tested I can't see how the lockdown can stop. Like you I'm sure I know of many who have tested positive but were showing no symptoms at all!

History tells us that more died of the 1918 flu epidemic than died in WWI and here's a timely reminder.

this is neither remotely comparable to Spanish flu in cases or deaths...

Exactly a comparison to Spanish flu is ridiculous

They are working on a vaccine. These things take time and although I'm no expert on the subject I think another 3 weeks Lockdown is not going to be long enough to come up with one. If they do I will be sceptical of it.

I don't think we have gone to far. The only danger I see are these theories going out there. That stuff is going to do all our heads in.

They are working on a vaccine. These things take time and although I'm no expert on the subject I think another 3 weeks Lockdown is not going to be long enough to come up with one. If they do I will be sceptical of it.

I don't think we have gone to far. The only danger I see are these theories going out there. That stuff is going to do all our heads in.

its not theory its reality..as is the fact hundreds of thousands of appointments for things far more likely to kill you are now on hold....there is no balance in this at all...

They are working on a vaccine. These things take time and although I'm no expert on the subject I think another 3 weeks Lockdown is not going to be long enough to come up with one. If they do I will be sceptical of it.

I don't think we have gone to far. The only danger I see are these theories going out there. That stuff is going to do all our heads in.

its not theory its reality..as is the fact hundreds of thousands of appointments for things far more likely to kill you are now on hold....there is no balance in this at all...

I'm in that category an appointment to remove cancer from my large intestine cancelled the day before after I had waited over 4 months for an appointment. Unable to get any commitment of a likely date so as I see it nothing will happen until a vaccine becomes available.

The NHS in Wales, as in other countries of the UK, is shut down for everything other than Covid-19. I am not alone and there are probably thousands of people in the UK having to wait for treatment for life limiting conditions. Maybe not direct casualties of covid-19 but nevertheless they will eventually suffer the consequence.

The Spanish Flu killed over 50 million in the developed world, excluding Russia, China et al add another 30 million. This is a silly comparison most recover from CV the Spanish Flu was absolutely lethal !!

They are working on a vaccine. These things take time and although I'm no expert on the subject I think another 3 weeks Lockdown is not going to be long enough to come up with one. If they do I will be sceptical of it.

I don't think we have gone to far. The only danger I see are these theories going out there. That stuff is going to do all our heads in.

its not theory its reality..as is the fact hundreds of thousands of appointments for things far more likely to kill you are now on hold....there is no balance in this at all...

I'm in that category an appointment to remove cancer from my large intestine cancelled the day before after I had waited over 4 months for an appointment. Unable to get any commitment of a likely date so as I see it nothing will happen until a vaccine becomes available.

The NHS in Wales, as in other countries of the UK, is shut down for everything other than Covid-19. I am not alone and there are probably thousands of people in the UK having to wait for treatment for life limiting conditions. Maybe not direct casualties of covid-19 but nevertheless they will eventually suffer the consequence.

no your not alone its 10s if not 100s of thousands of cancelled opps and appointments already mate... our bed occupancy in hospitals was as high as 94% in January, normally runs at about 90% ..but its been below 70% for much of the last month having cleared over 30k beds.. these beds would have been occupied by people that needed them . these people are not suddenly cured or no longer in need of that bed just down graded..
hope you get your appointment sooner rather than later...

People still read the daily fail and the S*n?

People still read the daily fail and the S*n?

the fact that there was a 2,500 spike in non covid deaths is a fact no matter what paper prints it... its the same number that's on government sites...these peoples lives could well have been saved as they are over and above expected ...

A London-specific lockdown was considered before strict measures were introduced to tackle coronavirus nationwide, the health secretary said.

Matt Hancock told the Health Committee on Friday that limits on daily life may have been introduced in London first.

London has seen 25% of the UK's total coronavirus deaths, but accounts for only 13% of the population.

The government eventually decided separating off London would affect "national unity," Mr Hancock said.

"It was better to do it across the country as a whole," the health secretary said.

"And that's for two reasons. The first is that if you put a lockdown in one part of the country, then there's still travel from there to the rest of the country, so it isn't as easy as that.

"The second reason is that actually one of the really strong things that's come through this crisis is that the country is acting in lockstep."

He said that the UK had "come together" in response to the social distancing measures.

If some of the projections for the economy are correct there's argument for ending lockdown.
It would result in loads of horrible deaths with the vast majority of people suffering a close loss, even further traumatise NHS workers although many of those dying would probably die within the next few years of a different illness.
Extending the lockdown could lead to economic consequences that will damage health and social care education infurstructue security for an unknown time leading to a high volume of deaths child poverty and many more problems.
I am glad its not my decision.

If some of the projections for the economy are correct there's argument for ending lockdown.
It would result in loads of horrible deaths with the vast majority of people suffering a close loss, even further traumatise NHS workers although many of those dying would probably die within the next few years of a different illness.
Extending the lockdown could lead to economic consequences that will damage health and social care education infurstructue security for an unknown time leading to a high volume of deaths child poverty and many more problems.
I am glad its not my decision.

Your right - and the decision is correct - But it's up to us all to follow the rules/guide lines to reduce this spread .

The government was heavily criticised at the start for not being harsher with lockdown type measures. Now that these are achieving their aims they are being criticised for not relaxing them quickly enough. We do not have the testing infrastructure that Germany has. Why not? i dont know the answer, but we dont.

We dont have antibody testing as yet which would tell us who had had the disease and who had not. We do know that there will be further waves of infections over the next several months as this has been stated on more than one occasions by the WHO.

When to relax lockdown measures has to be driven by science and the medical profession, not by academia, newspapers, TV or economists. Peoples lives cannot be measured against hard cash.

The limiting of treatments which are likely to require immune suppressants is very sad. However, the use of such treatments makes it even more likely that a person infected with COVID-19 dies.

Life is tough now, and will be tough for months maybe years to come but at least we are alive!

The government was heavily criticised at the start for not being harsher with lockdown type measures. Now that these are achieving their aims they are being criticised for not relaxing them quickly enough. We do not have the testing infrastructure that Germany has. Why not? i dont know the answer, but we dont.

We dont have antibody testing as yet which would tell us who had had the disease and who had not. We do know that there will be further waves of infections over the next several months as this has been stated on more than one occasions by the WHO.

When to relax lockdown measures has to be driven by science and the medical profession, not by academia, newspapers, TV or economists. Peoples lives cannot be measured against hard cash.

The limiting of treatments which are likely to require immune suppressants is very sad. However, the use of such treatments makes it even more likely that a person infected with COVID-19 dies.

Life is tough now, and will be tough for months maybe years to come but at least we are alive!

Good Post - The Germany question i will answer for you - Germany have the best testing in Europe may be Top 3 in the world as they have 2 or 3 major companies based there who produce these tests .

Since February, between 200 and 300 German laboratories have become involved in the rapid testing scheme.
It is said that these institutes are among the fastest and most efficient in the world.
While governments across the world are still trying to boost their ability to perform large numbers of tests, Germany had already developed a high-intensity testing scheme. And there is no end in sight.

Bosch, the global technology company from Stuttgart, has assigned its medical engineers to develop a new diagnostic test that will be able to detect coronavirus in 2.5 hours.

Second, the country was meticulously prepared for a pandemic. Once it became clear that the spread of the virus was serious, a reporting system involving the Robert Koch Institute and all public health offices came into play. Plus, a detailed ‘epidemic strategy’ lying in the drawer for years outlined payment structures for laboratories for diagnostic tests.

There were no questions, nor any disputes, about costs and accounting.
Talking to senior officials in Berlin, they emphasise that the healthcare system here works like a well-oiled machine, without centralised hierarchies and endless coordination meetings.
Local institutions knew what they had to do to get the testing scheme going.
A major advantage of the country’s healthcare sector is that doctor’s practices and hospitals are spread out. That allowed setting up an impressive number of test centres.

If you look at other countries we have had a light lockdown compared with the likes of both Italy and Spain. So time will only tell whether this will work for the longer run.

The government was heavily criticised at the start for not being harsher with lockdown type measures. Now that these are achieving their aims they are being criticised for not relaxing them quickly enough. We do not have the testing infrastructure that Germany has. Why not? i dont know the answer, but we dont.

We dont have antibody testing as yet which would tell us who had had the disease and who had not. We do know that there will be further waves of infections over the next several months as this has been stated on more than one occasions by the WHO.

When to relax lockdown measures has to be driven by science and the medical profession, not by academia, newspapers, TV or economists. Peoples lives cannot be measured against hard cash.

The limiting of treatments which are likely to require immune suppressants is very sad. However, the use of such treatments makes it even more likely that a person infected with COVID-19 dies.

Life is tough now, and will be tough for months maybe years to come but at least we are alive!

Good Post - The Germany question i will answer for you - Germany have the best testing in Europe may be Top 3 in the world as they have 2 or 3 major companies based there who produce these tests .

Roche Diagnostics in Mannheim are the biggest manufacturer of the chemical reagents, not just Germany but probably the world, required to carryout the tests required for Covid-19 and it doesn't require a NASA scientist to work out why Germany have had all the material they need to carryout the mass testing they have.

But besides the manufacturing base Germany also has Industrial Size testing labs that make the UK look almost 3rd world by comparison. How can that be? For decades now British Governments, of ALL parties, have followed a globalisation path with outsourcing whatever they can to the detriment of british workers, and in this pandemic situation, unable to respond to protect people in this country.

I don't blame the current government for this situation but we need a strong dose of Trump with our government from here on operating a UK First Policy, in particular when it comes to public health.

I'm in that category an appointment to remove cancer from my large intestine cancelled the day before after I had waited over 4 months for an appointment. Unable to get any commitment of a likely date so as I see it nothing will happen until a vaccine becomes available.

The NHS in Wales, as in other countries of the UK, is shut down for everything other than Covid-19. I am not alone and there are probably thousands of people in the UK having to wait for treatment for life limiting conditions. Maybe not direct casualties of covid-19 but nevertheless they will eventually suffer the consequence.

I'm really sorry to hear that Gary I hope that you can get your urgent treatment as quickly as possible.

I did read an article in the Daily Mail yesterday which did get me thinking. Basically it revolved around the £330 billion which the Government has earmarked for the job retention scheme and business support.

The author argued that rather than furloughing millions of workers the £330 billion should have been used to shield anyone over a certain age and those with underlying conditions. The rest of the workforce would have continued to work and shops/businesses would have stayed open.

Yes the virus would have spread faster but mainly within the younger more healthy members of society. While there would have still been deaths they would have been far lower and the pressure on the NHS would also be lower as most of those infected would just need to self isolate for 7 days and quickly herd immunity would be achieved.

Of course it would take great discipline to stay away from elderly relatives and testing of Healthcare workers in social care would be vital. But in theory it is a plan and one which would also allow for those like poor Gary above to still get the urgent treatment he desperately needs.

The government was heavily criticised at the start for not being harsher with lockdown type measures. Now that these are achieving their aims they are being criticised for not relaxing them quickly enough. We do not have the testing infrastructure that Germany has. Why not? i dont know the answer, but we dont.

We dont have antibody testing as yet which would tell us who had had the disease and who had not. We do know that there will be further waves of infections over the next several months as this has been stated on more than one occasions by the WHO.

When to relax lockdown measures has to be driven by science and the medical profession, not by academia, newspapers, TV or economists. Peoples lives cannot be measured against hard cash.

The limiting of treatments which are likely to require immune suppressants is very sad. However, the use of such treatments makes it even more likely that a person infected with COVID-19 dies.

Life is tough now, and will be tough for months maybe years to come but at least we are alive!

Good Post - The Germany question i will answer for you - Germany have the best testing in Europe may be Top 3 in the world as they have 2 or 3 major companies based there who produce these tests .

Roche Diagnostics in Mannheim are the biggest manufacturer of the chemical reagents, not just Germany but probably the world, required to carryout the tests required for Covid-19 and it doesn't require a NASA scientist to work out why Germany have had all the material they need to carryout the mass testing they have.

But besides the manufacturing base Germany also has Industrial Size testing labs that make the UK look almost 3rd world by comparison. How can that be? For decades now British Governments, of ALL parties, have followed a globalisation path with outsourcing whatever they can to the detriment of british workers, and in this pandemic situation, unable to respond to protect people in this country.

I don't blame the current government for this situation but we need a strong dose of Trump with our government from here on operating a UK First Policy, in particular when it comes to public health.

Cheers Gary