Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Premier
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:36 pm
Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Premier League relegation
Following promotion to the Premier League, the Bluebirds' income almost quadrupled to £122.5m (£32.8m in 2018), such is the financial pull of the Premier League.
Cardiff's debt now stands at £114m, of which roughly £40m is owed to owner Vincent Tan.
Wednesday 4th March 2020
By Dafydd Pritchard
BBC Sport Wales
Cardiff City spent one season in the Premier League before dropping back down to the Championship in May 2019
Cardiff City cut their losses from £34m to £755,000 in the year they were relegated from the Premier League.
Accounts ending 31 May 2019 show the Bluebirds' turnover rose from £35m to £125m, primarily driven by the "significant increase in TV and league revenue" in the top flight.
Cardiff lasted only one season in the Premier League and, despite spending £38m on their squad, increased matchday and commercial revenues also helped them significantly reduce the £34m loss they recorded in 2018.
The 2019 figures take into account a provision of £19.5m regarding the club's dispute with Nantes about the Emiliano Sala transfer - but Cardiff believe they will not need to pay this sum.
The Welsh club are still fighting their case against payment of the £15m transfer fee agreed with Nantes, a year on from the deaths of the Argentine striker and pilot David Ibbotson.
Their case with Nantes is set to for the Court of Arbitration for Sport, with Cardiff earlier submitting a file to French prosecutors they claim contained "sufficient evidence of wrongdoing" on Nantes' behalf regarding the transfer.
Based on legal advice, Cardiff insist that they remain confident they will not need to pay the fee, but have put £19.5m to one side as a contingency.
Cardiff's latest accounts also show the club's player wage bill was £42.5m for the 2018-19 season, an increase of £11.3m from the previous campaign.
Cardiff's debt now stands at £114m, of which roughly £40m is owed to owner Vincent Tan.
That means around £32m was repaid to the Malaysian businessman, who was shown to be owed £72m in 2018's accounts.
The reduction in debt due to Tan has been replaced by other loans of £39.5m from other unnamed parties, who are not shareholders or directors.
These loans are secured over future guaranteed income, likely to be some of the aforementioned Premier League broadcast fees earned but not yet paid.
Tan's remaining debt is split into two elements - £14.8m interest bearing at 7% a year and carrying the right to convert into shares, with the majority of the balance non-interest bearing and having no conversion rights.
A Cardiff City club statement said: "Whilst long term funding is not guaranteed, the ultimate owner has indicated that providing the business develops as planned, he will continue to support the group in the foreseeable future and provide additional finance in order that it can settle its liabilities as they fall due."
"In conclusion, in the opinion of the directors, there is sufficient funding available to meet the group's trading requirements for the foreseeable future."
Following promotion to the Premier League, the Bluebirds' income almost quadrupled to £122.5m (£32.8m in 2018), such is the financial pull of the Premier League.
Cardiff's debt now stands at £114m, of which roughly £40m is owed to owner Vincent Tan.
Wednesday 4th March 2020
By Dafydd Pritchard
BBC Sport Wales
Cardiff City spent one season in the Premier League before dropping back down to the Championship in May 2019
Cardiff City cut their losses from £34m to £755,000 in the year they were relegated from the Premier League.
Accounts ending 31 May 2019 show the Bluebirds' turnover rose from £35m to £125m, primarily driven by the "significant increase in TV and league revenue" in the top flight.
Cardiff lasted only one season in the Premier League and, despite spending £38m on their squad, increased matchday and commercial revenues also helped them significantly reduce the £34m loss they recorded in 2018.
The 2019 figures take into account a provision of £19.5m regarding the club's dispute with Nantes about the Emiliano Sala transfer - but Cardiff believe they will not need to pay this sum.
The Welsh club are still fighting their case against payment of the £15m transfer fee agreed with Nantes, a year on from the deaths of the Argentine striker and pilot David Ibbotson.
Their case with Nantes is set to for the Court of Arbitration for Sport, with Cardiff earlier submitting a file to French prosecutors they claim contained "sufficient evidence of wrongdoing" on Nantes' behalf regarding the transfer.
Based on legal advice, Cardiff insist that they remain confident they will not need to pay the fee, but have put £19.5m to one side as a contingency.
Cardiff's latest accounts also show the club's player wage bill was £42.5m for the 2018-19 season, an increase of £11.3m from the previous campaign.
Cardiff's debt now stands at £114m, of which roughly £40m is owed to owner Vincent Tan.
That means around £32m was repaid to the Malaysian businessman, who was shown to be owed £72m in 2018's accounts.
The reduction in debt due to Tan has been replaced by other loans of £39.5m from other unnamed parties, who are not shareholders or directors.
These loans are secured over future guaranteed income, likely to be some of the aforementioned Premier League broadcast fees earned but not yet paid.
Tan's remaining debt is split into two elements - £14.8m interest bearing at 7% a year and carrying the right to convert into shares, with the majority of the balance non-interest bearing and having no conversion rights.
A Cardiff City club statement said: "Whilst long term funding is not guaranteed, the ultimate owner has indicated that providing the business develops as planned, he will continue to support the group in the foreseeable future and provide additional finance in order that it can settle its liabilities as they fall due."
"In conclusion, in the opinion of the directors, there is sufficient funding available to meet the group's trading requirements for the foreseeable future."
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:43 pm
' CARDIFF CITY REVENUES '
By Glen Williams
Wednesday 4th March 2020
Following promotion to the Premier League, the Bluebirds' income almost quadrupled to £122.5m (£32.8m in 2018), such is the financial pull of the Premier League.
City raked in the vast majority of that, £107m, in broadcasting and commercial distributions, another sharp rise from the £21.5m they earned in 2018.
Gate receipts and match day income also rose to £7.9m (£5m in 2018) across the course of last season.
Of course, broadcasting revenues and gate receipts — the average attendance being roughly 10,000 lower each game — will fall dramatically once again for this current season in the Championship.
However chairman Mehmet Dalman alludes to the fact that parachute payments this year — this is worth 55 percent of broadcasting revenue, so roughly slightly over £40m, it is thought — will cushion the blow of relegation to the Championship.
"We will undoubtedly face challenges following our return to the Championship in balancing the change in our revenue," he said, "albeit softened by the receipt of parachute receivables, with our aim to challenge for an immediate return to the Premier League."
FINANCIAL LOSS
The Bluebirds recorded a gross profit of £2.6m, which, after tax, equated to an overall net loss of just £755,000, a seismic improvement on the £36m net loss for the 2018 year.
Crucially, however, the slight loss recorded for 2019 includes a £19.5m provision for the purchase of Emiliano Sala, which the club are confident they will end up not paying, as the legal dispute between them and Nantes rumbles on, meaning we could consequently see an improvement in reported financial results.
Should Cardiff's appeal, which is set to be decided once again by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, be successful, it would see them surge into profit for last year.
It should also be noted that the club's 2018 loss was greatly slashed to just £9m after accounts were filed following a £27m revaluation on the club's Cardiff City Stadium.
Consequently, the above loss means the club's net liability worsened slightly from £10.7m to £11.5m.
But, with both the stadium revaluation and the Sala provision in mind, it highlights the importance of the Premier League's financial clout for Championship clubs.
The Bluebirds have included a provision of £19.5m for the purchase of Emiliano Sala in their accounts, which they might not pay
The Premier League season also saw the Bluebirds' play-related wage bill rise drastically from £31.2m to £42.5m, as can be expected with the larger wage packets in the top flight.
The rise in the wage bill came after some big-money signings, which included permanent deals for Josh Murphy, Bobby Reid, Greg Cunningham, Alex Smithies and Leandro Bacuna, while loan signings Harry Arter, Oumar Niasse and Victor Camarasa will have propped up the wage bill further.
That would have been marginally offset by the few players, such as Matty Kennedy, Lee Camp and Anthony Pilkington leaving ahead of the season, but those numbers would have been negligible.
One would think that now that £42.5m wage will have been dramatically reduced once again. Reid has left while Arter, Niasse and Camarasa did not sign new deals at City.
Neil Harris has also greatly reduced the squad size, allowing seven players to leave in January, including a termination of Gary Madine and Lee Peltier's contracts, likely two hefty earners, whether they be permanent moves or loans, and brought in three players on short-term loan deals.
We have also learned that eight academy players will leave the club at the end of their current deals, too, which will reduce the wage bill going forward.
PLAYER TRADING
As is expected the Bluebirds made a huge loss on player sales during the last financial year.
They invested £38m into the squad in both the summer and winter windows during the Premier League season, on the players mentioned above, making next to no profit on any players sold.
In fact, every Cardiff City sale during that time was a free transfer, while a number of players went out on loan.
Expenditure on new players this season has been £23.1m, too, with Robert Glatzel, Aden Flint, Will Vaulks, Marlon Pack, Joe Day, Gavin Whyte and Curtis Nelson all coming in during last summer's window.
But the numbers are expected to even out slightly when the next accounts are published, with the sales of Kenneth Zohore, Bobby Reid, Bruno Manga greatly helping in clawing back that expenditure.
We are likely to see a further reduction in players in the summer, too, to go along with Peltier, Madine, Armand Traore and Brian Murphy's permanent exits in January.
AMORTISATION AND IMPAIRMENT
Cardiff's transfer market dealings were reflected in the club's annual amortisation charge rising by £10m from 2018 to £15.2m.
Amortisation is the non-cash charge clubs use to reflect the purchase of assets that have a long shelf life - like the contract.
The cost of acquiring players is spread out over the contract and recognised in an annual 'charge' every year that is unrelated to the actual cash need to buy the contract.
City's £10m rise in amortisation costs is largely due to player acquisition costs being far higher in recent years than in previous seasons.
That figure, of course, is a direct result of the big-money signings mentioned above and will almost definitely be far lower when the next set of accounts are published.
Meanwhile, the Bluebirds also recorded a non-cash impairment charge of £11.6m, the accounting process of recognising that the value of a player on a club's books is not recoverable to some or full extent.
This was a dramatic decline on the previous season when the impairment charge was zero. This figure would, for example, include an allowance for the termination of Madine's contract.
Overall, amortisation and impairment costs rose dramatically to £27m, compared to those of just £5m in 2018.
LOANS, OVERDRAFTS AND FUNDING
Cardiff have liabilities payable on or before May 21, 2020, totalling £114m in addition to the £19.5m Sala provision, which, to reiterate, might never be paid.
To put into context that £114m, £40.1m is reported to be due to owner Vincent Tan, with £32.3m of his debt having apparently been repaid during the year.
This debt reduction due to him was seemingly replaced by other loans totalling £39.5m from other parties who are not shareholders or directors.
The loans to be paid to those parties are stated to be secured by guaranteed income streams, most likely meaning they will be repaid by broadcasting fees which have not yet been paid, which would have to have been consented to by the creditors.
THE CONCLUSION
So, from a footballing standpoint, what does this all mean?
The Premier League promotion was very clearly good business for the club, but everyone knew that. City earned a profit of around £22m before tax, which was obviously reduced in the official accounts due to the £19.5m Sala provision.
The club appear to be in a relatively stable position, with the £40m worth of parachute payments set to ensure the club's transition back into the second tier is not felt too harshly. Further parachute payments, albeit reduced, will be forthcoming next year, too, unless the club secure promotion back up into the top flight, the chances of which, at present, looks extremely slim.
But the full scale of the club's operating costs must be appreciated.
The club simply cannot spend the volume of cash it has, especially on player transfers, in recent seasons.
We have seen a tightening of the purse strings, as evidenced by three loan signings and seven exits in the most recent transfer window in January.
It appears highly unlikely that the levels of expenditure on players in recent years will be repeated any time soon and the club's heavy reliance on Tan's funds are set to continue for the foreseeable future.
Tan has reportedly sold around $70m of his stake in MLS side Los Angeles FC, and is set to sell his remaining shares worth roughly the same value, and is keen to concentrate both physically and financially on the Bluebirds.
By Glen Williams
Wednesday 4th March 2020
Following promotion to the Premier League, the Bluebirds' income almost quadrupled to £122.5m (£32.8m in 2018), such is the financial pull of the Premier League.
City raked in the vast majority of that, £107m, in broadcasting and commercial distributions, another sharp rise from the £21.5m they earned in 2018.
Gate receipts and match day income also rose to £7.9m (£5m in 2018) across the course of last season.
Of course, broadcasting revenues and gate receipts — the average attendance being roughly 10,000 lower each game — will fall dramatically once again for this current season in the Championship.
However chairman Mehmet Dalman alludes to the fact that parachute payments this year — this is worth 55 percent of broadcasting revenue, so roughly slightly over £40m, it is thought — will cushion the blow of relegation to the Championship.
"We will undoubtedly face challenges following our return to the Championship in balancing the change in our revenue," he said, "albeit softened by the receipt of parachute receivables, with our aim to challenge for an immediate return to the Premier League."
FINANCIAL LOSS
The Bluebirds recorded a gross profit of £2.6m, which, after tax, equated to an overall net loss of just £755,000, a seismic improvement on the £36m net loss for the 2018 year.
Crucially, however, the slight loss recorded for 2019 includes a £19.5m provision for the purchase of Emiliano Sala, which the club are confident they will end up not paying, as the legal dispute between them and Nantes rumbles on, meaning we could consequently see an improvement in reported financial results.
Should Cardiff's appeal, which is set to be decided once again by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, be successful, it would see them surge into profit for last year.
It should also be noted that the club's 2018 loss was greatly slashed to just £9m after accounts were filed following a £27m revaluation on the club's Cardiff City Stadium.
Consequently, the above loss means the club's net liability worsened slightly from £10.7m to £11.5m.
But, with both the stadium revaluation and the Sala provision in mind, it highlights the importance of the Premier League's financial clout for Championship clubs.
The Bluebirds have included a provision of £19.5m for the purchase of Emiliano Sala in their accounts, which they might not pay
The Premier League season also saw the Bluebirds' play-related wage bill rise drastically from £31.2m to £42.5m, as can be expected with the larger wage packets in the top flight.
The rise in the wage bill came after some big-money signings, which included permanent deals for Josh Murphy, Bobby Reid, Greg Cunningham, Alex Smithies and Leandro Bacuna, while loan signings Harry Arter, Oumar Niasse and Victor Camarasa will have propped up the wage bill further.
That would have been marginally offset by the few players, such as Matty Kennedy, Lee Camp and Anthony Pilkington leaving ahead of the season, but those numbers would have been negligible.
One would think that now that £42.5m wage will have been dramatically reduced once again. Reid has left while Arter, Niasse and Camarasa did not sign new deals at City.
Neil Harris has also greatly reduced the squad size, allowing seven players to leave in January, including a termination of Gary Madine and Lee Peltier's contracts, likely two hefty earners, whether they be permanent moves or loans, and brought in three players on short-term loan deals.
We have also learned that eight academy players will leave the club at the end of their current deals, too, which will reduce the wage bill going forward.
PLAYER TRADING
As is expected the Bluebirds made a huge loss on player sales during the last financial year.
They invested £38m into the squad in both the summer and winter windows during the Premier League season, on the players mentioned above, making next to no profit on any players sold.
In fact, every Cardiff City sale during that time was a free transfer, while a number of players went out on loan.
Expenditure on new players this season has been £23.1m, too, with Robert Glatzel, Aden Flint, Will Vaulks, Marlon Pack, Joe Day, Gavin Whyte and Curtis Nelson all coming in during last summer's window.
But the numbers are expected to even out slightly when the next accounts are published, with the sales of Kenneth Zohore, Bobby Reid, Bruno Manga greatly helping in clawing back that expenditure.
We are likely to see a further reduction in players in the summer, too, to go along with Peltier, Madine, Armand Traore and Brian Murphy's permanent exits in January.
AMORTISATION AND IMPAIRMENT
Cardiff's transfer market dealings were reflected in the club's annual amortisation charge rising by £10m from 2018 to £15.2m.
Amortisation is the non-cash charge clubs use to reflect the purchase of assets that have a long shelf life - like the contract.
The cost of acquiring players is spread out over the contract and recognised in an annual 'charge' every year that is unrelated to the actual cash need to buy the contract.
City's £10m rise in amortisation costs is largely due to player acquisition costs being far higher in recent years than in previous seasons.
That figure, of course, is a direct result of the big-money signings mentioned above and will almost definitely be far lower when the next set of accounts are published.
Meanwhile, the Bluebirds also recorded a non-cash impairment charge of £11.6m, the accounting process of recognising that the value of a player on a club's books is not recoverable to some or full extent.
This was a dramatic decline on the previous season when the impairment charge was zero. This figure would, for example, include an allowance for the termination of Madine's contract.
Overall, amortisation and impairment costs rose dramatically to £27m, compared to those of just £5m in 2018.
LOANS, OVERDRAFTS AND FUNDING
Cardiff have liabilities payable on or before May 21, 2020, totalling £114m in addition to the £19.5m Sala provision, which, to reiterate, might never be paid.
To put into context that £114m, £40.1m is reported to be due to owner Vincent Tan, with £32.3m of his debt having apparently been repaid during the year.
This debt reduction due to him was seemingly replaced by other loans totalling £39.5m from other parties who are not shareholders or directors.
The loans to be paid to those parties are stated to be secured by guaranteed income streams, most likely meaning they will be repaid by broadcasting fees which have not yet been paid, which would have to have been consented to by the creditors.
THE CONCLUSION
So, from a footballing standpoint, what does this all mean?
The Premier League promotion was very clearly good business for the club, but everyone knew that. City earned a profit of around £22m before tax, which was obviously reduced in the official accounts due to the £19.5m Sala provision.
The club appear to be in a relatively stable position, with the £40m worth of parachute payments set to ensure the club's transition back into the second tier is not felt too harshly. Further parachute payments, albeit reduced, will be forthcoming next year, too, unless the club secure promotion back up into the top flight, the chances of which, at present, looks extremely slim.
But the full scale of the club's operating costs must be appreciated.
The club simply cannot spend the volume of cash it has, especially on player transfers, in recent seasons.
We have seen a tightening of the purse strings, as evidenced by three loan signings and seven exits in the most recent transfer window in January.
It appears highly unlikely that the levels of expenditure on players in recent years will be repeated any time soon and the club's heavy reliance on Tan's funds are set to continue for the foreseeable future.
Tan has reportedly sold around $70m of his stake in MLS side Los Angeles FC, and is set to sell his remaining shares worth roughly the same value, and is keen to concentrate both physically and financially on the Bluebirds.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:24 pm
Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:29 pm
Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
If we would of stayed up we would of had to spend more money on transfers and wages the premier league isn't a cash cow people think ,the top 6 make money the rest lose money year in year out,I think yoyoing like west Brom do earns more money
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:43 pm
wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
If we would of stayed up we would of had to spend more money on transfers and wages the premier league isn't a cash cow people think ,the top 6 make money the rest lose money year in year out,I think yoyoing like west Brom do earns more money
Of course we would of had to invest to stay up, but we knew from day one Warnock is a Championship manager and we were once again not ready for the Premier.
Good examples this season Wolves and Sheffield United reaping the rewards
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:55 pm
Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
If we would of stayed up we would of had to spend more money on transfers and wages the premier league isn't a cash cow people think ,the top 6 make money the rest lose money year in year out,I think yoyoing like west Brom do earns more money
Of course we would of had to invest to stay up, but we knew from day one Warnock is a Championship manager and we were once again not ready for the Premier.
Good examples this season Wolves and Sheffield United reaping the rewards
It will be interesting to see if Sheffield utd have 2nd season syndrome, wolves cheated there way up in the championship with loans beating ffp,west Brom had a season on consolidation last year and have smashed it this year but havnt spent a lot really
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:21 pm
At the end of the day the referees, the sala tragedy, being written off before the season kicked off and a few injuries have cost our chance for another season at the top. Its ok blaming Warnock for our Premier League season but all he could do is his best and that was it.
The referees knew what they were doing when they cost us the Chelsea game and we should off gotten that penalty against Watford but yet again the referee knows that he will get alot of stick for his action but the result means that it will cost us in the league.
The referees have been getting away with murder when they are refereeing our matches either in the premier league or this season. At the end of the day the league never wanted us a welsh side in there league so they done all they could to make us drop into the efl simple as that. Even whatever Warnock did he got punished for even just standing in the middle of the pitch he gets fined.
The referees knew what they were doing when they cost us the Chelsea game and we should off gotten that penalty against Watford but yet again the referee knows that he will get alot of stick for his action but the result means that it will cost us in the league.
The referees have been getting away with murder when they are refereeing our matches either in the premier league or this season. At the end of the day the league never wanted us a welsh side in there league so they done all they could to make us drop into the efl simple as that. Even whatever Warnock did he got punished for even just standing in the middle of the pitch he gets fined.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:04 pm
Forget the Chelsea game and look at the team sent out and the way they played against Fulham as that is where it was given away imo.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:27 pm
Sam ReaN wrote:At the end of the day the referees, the sala tragedy, being written off before the season kicked off and a few injuries have cost our chance for another season at the top. Its ok blaming Warnock for our Premier League season but all he could do is his best and that was it.
The referees knew what they were doing when they cost us the Chelsea game and we should off gotten that penalty against Watford but yet again the referee knows that he will get alot of stick for his action but the result means that it will cost us in the league.
The referees have been getting away with murder when they are refereeing our matches either in the premier league or this season. At the end of the day the league never wanted us a welsh side in there league so they done all they could to make us drop into the efl simple as that. Even whatever Warnock did he got punished for even just standing in the middle of the pitch he gets fined.
Rubbish, SamRean; and (as much as I don't want to) you only have to look down the road to see a Welsh club that were afforded much courtesy when having their moments in the sun
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:52 pm
Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
If we would of stayed up we would of had to spend more money on transfers and wages the premier league isn't a cash cow people think ,the top 6 make money the rest lose money year in year out,I think yoyoing like west Brom do earns more money
Of course we would of had to invest to stay up, but we knew from day one Warnock is a Championship manager and we were once again not ready for the Premier.
Good examples this season Wolves and Sheffield United reaping the rewards
Quite right Annis,but it would have taken a fair amount to get together a squad capable of sustaining a longer stay up there.and you are spot on regards warnock being a championship manager at best,he even admitted he doesn't like the prem.perhaps he should have quit on achieving another promotion? Gone out on a high if you like,and let someone else take the reigns.don't ask me who though ? Perhaps our loans would also have stayed upon achieving survival.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:13 pm
So as I stated and got shot down we didn’t even break even in the premier league and people still called for tonnes of signings this season and January and in the summary not going to happen or the debt to tan will rise again rapidly as it means he has to put £20m in during championship anyway
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:40 pm
smakerzthebluebird wrote:So as I stated and got shot down we didn’t even break even in the premier league and people still called for tonnes of signings this season and January and in the summary not going to happen or the debt to tan will rise again rapidly as it means he has to put £20m in during championship anyway
The club kept saying promotion isn't the cash cow a lot of people believe and looking at the accounts its hard to disagree.
I wonder what state the Fulham accounts are in.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:51 pm
2blue2handle wrote:smakerzthebluebird wrote:So as I stated and got shot down we didn’t even break even in the premier league and people still called for tonnes of signings this season and January and in the summary not going to happen or the debt to tan will rise again rapidly as it means he has to put £20m in during championship anyway
The club kept saying promotion isn't the cash cow a lot of people believe and looking at the accounts its hard to disagree.
I wonder what state the Fulham accounts are in.
Going to be a lot of clubs in shit with ffp next season ,the ones who gambled like Fulham derby,Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn,etc
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:00 pm
Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
That was certainly the case the first time around but I'm not sure being relegated by 2 points could be described as "way too easy".
Personally I think relegation last season was down to three key points.
Obviously the tragedy of Sala was massive, we were willing to pay £15m for a striker and clearly he would have been a better option than what we were left with.
The second one is obviously the Chelsea game where nobody could see Chelsea coming back at us until the "offside" goal.
The final one was the Fulham away game that we lost 1-0 when they were already down. It was all level and then Warnock decided to replace Camarassa with Rhys Healey of all people, leaving Reid on the bench until later. At that point I really thought Warnock had lost his marbles !!
It would be interesting to see how we would have faired with VAR and whether, as is always claimed, decisions evened themselves up over the season !!
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:19 pm
piledriver64 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
That was certainly the case the first time around but I'm not sure being relegated by 2 points could be described as "way too easy".
Personally I think relegation last season was down to three key points.
Obviously the tragedy of Sala was massive, we were willing to pay £15m for a striker and clearly he would have been a better option than what we were left with.
The second one is obviously the Chelsea game where nobody could see Chelsea coming back at us until the "offside" goal.
The final one was the Fulham away game that we lost 1-0 when they were already down. It was all level and then Warnock decided to replace Camarassa with Rhys Healey of all people, leaving Reid on the bench until later. At that point I really thought Warnock had lost his marbles !!
It would be interesting to see how we would have faired with VAR and whether, as is always claimed, decisions evened themselves up over the season !!
I don’t believe in individual matches , the whole season defines where you are come May
Over the season decisions on average even out.
I do believe though a quality striker would of kept us up.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:27 pm
Forever Blue wrote::happy1:piledriver64 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
That was certainly the case the first time around but I'm not sure being relegated by 2 points could be described as "way too easy".
Personally I think relegation last season was down to three key points.
Obviously the tragedy of Sala was massive, we were willing to pay £15m for a striker and clearly he would have been a better option than what we were left with.
The second one is obviously the Chelsea game where nobody could see Chelsea coming back at us until the "offside" goal.
The final one was the Fulham away game that we lost 1-0 when they were already down. It was all level and then Warnock decided to replace Camarassa with Rhys Healey of all people, leaving Reid on the bench until later. At that point I really thought Warnock had lost his marbles !!
It would be interesting to see how we would have faired with VAR and whether, as is always claimed, decisions evened themselves up over the season !!
I don’t believe in individual matches , the whole season defines where you are come May
Over the season decisions on average even out.
I do believe though a quality striker would of kept us up.
I absolutely agree with you on that one and with just 10 days left in the window after the Sala crash, without being to crass about the tragedy, it was too difficult to line up a replacement.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:08 pm
piledriver64 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
That was certainly the case the first time around but I'm not sure being relegated by 2 points could be described as "way too easy".
Personally I think relegation last season was down to three key points.
Obviously the tragedy of Sala was massive, we were willing to pay £15m for a striker and clearly he would have been a better option than what we were left with.
The second one is obviously the Chelsea game where nobody could see Chelsea coming back at us until the "offside" goal.
The final one was the Fulham away game that we lost 1-0 when they were already down. It was all level and then Warnock decided to replace Camarassa with Rhys Healey of all people, leaving Reid on the bench until later. At that point I really thought Warnock had lost his marbles !!
It would be interesting to see how we would have faired with VAR and whether, as is always claimed, decisions evened themselves up over the season !!
Agree
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:23 pm
wez1927 wrote:piledriver64 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Staying in the Premier league for more than a season, we would then have a sustained level of tv income over several years and would also not lose at least 10,000 fans so quick.
You have to have football people at the top as well as money.
We went down way to easy each time.
That was certainly the case the first time around but I'm not sure being relegated by 2 points could be described as "way too easy".
Personally I think relegation last season was down to three key points.
Obviously the tragedy of Sala was massive, we were willing to pay £15m for a striker and clearly he would have been a better option than what we were left with.
The second one is obviously the Chelsea game where nobody could see Chelsea coming back at us until the "offside" goal.
The final one was the Fulham away game that we lost 1-0 when they were already down. It was all level and then Warnock decided to replace Camarassa with Rhys Healey of all people, leaving Reid on the bench until later. At that point I really thought Warnock had lost his marbles !!
It would be interesting to see how we would have faired with VAR and whether, as is always claimed, decisions evened themselves up over the season !!
Agree
Agree with those 3 points.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:51 pm
It would also be interesting to know how the current level of debt compares to previous years. For instance, how does it compare with the debt before Tan took over, or following the club’s first season in the Premier League, or two years ago, etc?
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:19 pm
Forever Blue wrote:It would also be interesting to know how the current level of debt compares to previous years. For instance, how does it compare with the debt before Tan took over, or following the club’s first season in the Premier League, or two years ago, etc?
I agree it would be interesting but I dont think its comparable either.
transfer fees and wages have rocketed between our two times in the premier. I think Malky has the biggest budget ever given to a promoted team at the time.....yet Warnock was probably given a similar amount and it was one of the smaller budgets.
For example for Cornelius at the time at 8m was a huge huge signing for big money in the top league. last season we spent 12m on championship players.
I think clubs will come unstuck soon enough especially with FFP coming in more and more. if we can get our house in order we could be in a great position.
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:48 pm
Russell Slade to the rescue
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:57 pm
Ninianman wrote:Russell Slade to the rescue
Re: Cardiff City cut losses from £34m to £755,000 after Prem
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:24 pm
2blue2handle wrote:Forever Blue wrote:It would also be interesting to know how the current level of debt compares to previous years. For instance, how does it compare with the debt before Tan took over, or following the club’s first season in the Premier League, or two years ago, etc?
I agree it would be interesting but I dont think its comparable either.
transfer fees and wages have rocketed between our two times in the premier. I think Malky has the biggest budget ever given to a promoted team at the time.....yet Warnock was probably given a similar amount and it was one of the smaller budgets.
For example for Cornelius at the time at 8m was a huge huge signing for big money in the top league. last season we spent 12m on championship players.
I think clubs will come unstuck soon enough especially with FFP coming in more and more. if we can get our house in order we could be in a great position.
Good post mate
I read somewhere that villa postal a loss of I think 34m and that was AFTER they sold their ground! Tricky times for them,especially if they come back down. Things could at last be on an upward trend as a club,that would be a fantastic achievement by tannin my opinion.