‘ The Jacks Today / Great Britain ‘

Ive emailed every English club thats won the welsh cup and told them to wipe it from their history.

As its not in their pyramid its irrelevant.

That’s a silly email. Nobody has suggested to wipe it from their history, what is being suggested is that it is irrelevant.

The cup wins are irrelevant according to YOU so just wipe it, it was nothing.

Doesn't it show just how daft your claim is and how youve manipulated stats to suit your end game.

In fact i dont know why im typing this youve been told kd enough times.

Irrelevant in the eyes of Roathy, but facts suggest not in the eyes of many other Jacks. The last time Swansea and Cardiff met in a Welsh Cup final was in the same season that Swansea came 6th in the top flight. A quick check on attendances show that the cup final leg played at the Vetch attracted a bigger gate than seven of their top flight league matches that season, and was comparable with many other of their home league games. In fact, the gate was almost 16k, a good crowd in anyone's eyes at the old ground. Swansea won the cup that season and played two teams in Europe the following season including Paris Saint Germain. For the record, both home legs attracted far lower attendances than the "irrelevant" Welsh Cup Final a few months earlier.

Fantastic research. But you'll get the usual 'read my post' 'i didn't say that' nonsense from him.

I’m unsure what that research is supposed to show to be honest.

If we played a friendly tomorrow we would have thousands upon thousands watch it.. still will be an irrelevant game though wouldn’t it, so attendance is irrelevant.

Ive emailed every English club thats won the welsh cup and told them to wipe it from their history.

As its not in their pyramid its irrelevant.

That’s a silly email. Nobody has suggested to wipe it from their history, what is being suggested is that it is irrelevant.

The cup wins are irrelevant according to YOU so just wipe it, it was nothing.

Doesn't it show just how daft your claim is and how youve manipulated stats to suit your end game.

In fact i dont know why im typing this youve been told kd enough times.

Irrelevant in the eyes of Roathy, but facts suggest not in the eyes of many other Jacks. The last time Swansea and Cardiff met in a Welsh Cup final was in the same season that Swansea came 6th in the top flight. A quick check on attendances show that the cup final leg played at the Vetch attracted a bigger gate than seven of their top flight league matches that season, and was comparable with many other of their home league games. In fact, the gate was almost 16k, a good crowd in anyone's eyes at the old ground. Swansea won the cup that season and played two teams in Europe the following season including Paris Saint Germain. For the record, both home legs attracted far lower attendances than the "irrelevant" Welsh Cup Final a few months earlier.

Fantastic research. But you'll get the usual 'read my post' 'i didn't say that' nonsense from him.

I’m unsure what that research is supposed to show to be honest.

If we played a friendly tomorrow we would have thousands upon thousands watch it.. still will be an irrelevant game though wouldn’t it, so attendance is irrelevant.

Nearly 16k at the Vetch for a match which took Swansea into Europe suggests many do not share your opinion. Way more than some of your top flight attendances of the same period. However, unlike you,I am not giving an opinion, I am dealing with facts. Keep digging, with careful navigation you may surface in the centre circle of the Liberty Stadium. I have a busy afternoon ahead so I will leave you to discuss this amongst yourself, possibly under the heading " Facts are not facts unless endorsed by Roathy".

Ive emailed every English club thats won the welsh cup and told them to wipe it from their history.

As its not in their pyramid its irrelevant.

That’s a silly email. Nobody has suggested to wipe it from their history, what is being suggested is that it is irrelevant.

The cup wins are irrelevant according to YOU so just wipe it, it was nothing.

Doesn't it show just how daft your claim is and how youve manipulated stats to suit your end game.

In fact i dont know why im typing this youve been told kd enough times.

Irrelevant in the eyes of Roathy, but facts suggest not in the eyes of many other Jacks. The last time Swansea and Cardiff met in a Welsh Cup final was in the same season that Swansea came 6th in the top flight. A quick check on attendances show that the cup final leg played at the Vetch attracted a bigger gate than seven of their top flight league matches that season, and was comparable with many other of their home league games. In fact, the gate was almost 16k, a good crowd in anyone's eyes at the old ground. Swansea won the cup that season and played two teams in Europe the following season including Paris Saint Germain. For the record, both home legs attracted far lower attendances than the "irrelevant" Welsh Cup Final a few months earlier.

Fantastic research. But you'll get the usual 'read my post' 'i didn't say that' nonsense from him.

I’m unsure what that research is supposed to show to be honest.

If we played a friendly tomorrow we would have thousands upon thousands watch it.. still will be an irrelevant game though wouldn’t it, so attendance is irrelevant.

Nearly 16k at the Vetch for a match which took Swansea into Europe suggests many do not share your opinion. Way more than some of your top flight attendances of the same period. However, unlike you,I am not giving an opinion, I am dealing with facts. Keep digging, with careful navigation you may surface in the centre circle of the Liberty Stadium. I have a busy afternoon ahead so I will leave you to discuss this amongst yourself, possibly under the heading " Facts are not facts unless endorsed by Roathy".

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Nearly 16k at the Vetch for a match which took Swansea into Europe suggests many do not share your opinion. Way more than some of your top flight attendances of the same period. However, unlike you,I am not giving an opinion, I am dealing with facts. Keep digging, with careful navigation you may surface in the centre circle of the Liberty Stadium. I have a busy afternoon ahead so I will leave you to discuss this amongst yourself, possibly under the heading " Facts are not facts unless endorsed by Roathy".

No it doesn’t mean any of the sort. I just explained why attendance doesn’t translate into relevance. We have had ore season friendlies with higher attendances than league games, by your logic those friendlies are more relevant than the league games... it’s flawed logic.

There is nothing to dig, my point is simple. I and others don’t seem those matches relevant, you are more than welcome to if you feel the need to. There is nothing to dig, I am stating facts.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

You know that I know it so do everyone else on this board does as well! But unfortunately you cannot change perfection that is roathy and he will never accept a competitive game is one sanctioned by a national body? For some obscure reason he only accepts English fa as being relevant when counting competitive games... I know FAW is not perfect but it is relevant to us in Wales and to UEFA and FIFA so why not to roathy! Who does he represent besides himself to say that FAW sanctioned games are not relevant?

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

The amount of people trying to convince themselves of something currently is just hilarious.

I am commenting because it is a conversation. When someone puts a point forward then I will reply. Last I checked my response was to a person claiming attendance equals relevance - I correctly told him that you can have friendly games of no relevance that have higher attendances than league or cup games of relevance, meaning the point is flawed.

But if it makes you feel better then yes, that excellent and factual counter was “just to have the last word”

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Where have I changed the argument? I don’t believe I have come close to changing it even once. Do you mean you keep pretending my point is something else so it’s easier to argue against only for me to correctly point out that it is not what I said in the slightest?

My point at the beginning of the thread was that our record stands at 68 games in English football, the rest I and others find irrelevant. My point on page 10 of this thread is that our record stands at 68 games in English football, the rest I and others find irrelevant... all the bits in between have been 3 or 4 people trying and failing to convince me otherwise.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

The amount of people trying to convince themselves of something currently is just hilarious.

I am commenting because it is a conversation. When someone puts a point forward then I will reply. Last I checked my response was to a person claiming attendance equals relevance - I correctly told him that you can have friendly games of no relevance that have higher attendances than league or cup games of relevance, meaning the point is flawed.

But if it makes you feel better then yes, that excellent and factual counter was “just to have the last word”

The key word you’ve used is “friendly.” Therefore, anything outside of that remit is then deemed a competitive fixture, including Welsh Cup games. Hopefully this will help ease the transition of understanding from a learning perspective.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

You are now contradicting yourself and taking my point that I made against you. You seem completely lost as to what the point you are making is, and indeed where the debate is at.

Attendance does not mean relevance. As I correctly stated, clubs can have friendlies with a higher attendance than league and cup games, doesn’t mean they are more relevant than those games however.

So in terms of facts, it is a fact that we have met 68 times in English football. It is your opinion that other matches played outside that are relevant enough to count, it is my (and others) opinion that they aren’t.

But it is very telling that at the top of this page you are making the point that certain matches are relevant because they have higher attendances, yet now telling me certain matches aren’t relevant because of low attendances - yet trying to make the point they are all relevant?

You have tied yourself up in a knot with your segway type construction where in order to try and prove a point you take the discussion down one rabbit hole - hit a dead end, before forgetting why you went down that rabbit hole and then arguing against the very point you just made.

The key word you’ve used is “friendly.” Therefore, anything outside of that remit is then deemed a competitive fixture, including Welsh Cup games. Hopefully this will help ease the transition of understanding from a learning perspective.

Well no, the key is that it is an irrelevant match with a high attendance, meaning that attendance does not equate relevance.

Simple really.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

You are now contradicting yourself and taking my point that I made against you. You seem completely lost as to what the point you are making is, and indeed where the debate is at.

Attendance does not mean relevance. As I correctly stated, clubs can have friendlies with a higher attendance than league and cup games, doesn’t mean they are more relevant than those games however.

So in terms of facts, it is a fact that we have met 68 times in English football. It is your opinion that other matches played outside that are relevant enough to count, it is my (and others) opinion that they aren’t.

But it is very telling that at the top of this page you are making the point that certain matches are relevant because they have higher attendances, yet now telling me certain matches aren’t relevant because of low attendances - yet trying to make the point they are all relevant?

You have tied yourself up in a knot with your segway type construction where in order to try and prove a point you take the discussion down one rabbit hole - hit a dead end, before forgetting why you went down that rabbit hole and then arguing against the very point you just made.

You really don't realise how stupid you are making yourself look do you? You can't decide what is a competitive match based on your opinion. You cannot speak for others either. Why not just count the matches played regulated by the Welsh FA? Simple reason is that would not give a true total of all competitive games played between the two clubs. We have played under English FA, Welsh FA and Eufa competition rules. All were competitive games and the records will stand forever, irrespective of whether or not you find them relevant. You said above that you and others find them irrelevant. So you are now qualified to speak on behalf of and decide the opinions of thousands of other fans as well as yourself. Stop being a silly billy, grow up and admit that you have made yourself look a right prune on this thread. Like an annoying kid in a school yard, knows he is wrong but will always have the last word. Both clubs have played under the rules of more than one football association, and you cannot erase the results from a particular one based on opinion. Try dealing with facts and you might not look so ridiculous. Have a good night.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

You are now contradicting yourself and taking my point that I made against you. You seem completely lost as to what the point you are making is, and indeed where the debate is at.

Attendance does not mean relevance. As I correctly stated, clubs can have friendlies with a higher attendance than league and cup games, doesn’t mean they are more relevant than those games however.

So in terms of facts, it is a fact that we have met 68 times in English football. It is your opinion that other matches played outside that are relevant enough to count, it is my (and others) opinion that they aren’t.

But it is very telling that at the top of this page you are making the point that certain matches are relevant because they have higher attendances, yet now telling me certain matches aren’t relevant because of low attendances - yet trying to make the point they are all relevant?

You have tied yourself up in a knot with your segway type construction where in order to try and prove a point you take the discussion down one rabbit hole - hit a dead end, before forgetting why you went down that rabbit hole and then arguing against the very point you just made.

You really don't realise how stupid you are making yourself look do you? You can't decide what is a competitive match based on your opinion. You cannot speak for others either. Why not just count the matches played regulated by the Welsh FA? Simple reason is that would not give a true total of all competitive games played between the two clubs. We have played under English FA, Welsh FA and Eufa competition rules. All were competitive games and the records will stand forever, irrespective of whether or not you find them relevant. You said above that you and others find them irrelevant. So you are now qualified to speak on behalf of and decide the opinions of thousands of other fans as well as yourself. Stop being a silly billy, grow up and admit that you have made yourself look a right prune on this thread. Like an annoying kid in a school yard, knows he is wrong but will always have the last word. Both clubs have played under the rules of more than one football association, and you cannot erase the results from a particular one based on opinion. Try dealing with facts and you might not look so ridiculous. Have a good night.

Don’t realise or don’t agree? They are two very differing scenarios. I would suggest anyone that genuinely (and not protests as is the case here) that I sound stupid really does not grasp what is being said and the debate going way over their heads. Which may explain the fact that you, and others, seem to be making the same point even after proving it invalid and also making points that contradict your earlier ones. There seems a clear lack of understanding there.

Now to the latest point - you yet again seem to be not understanding what is being said to you. At no point have I said that I have decided what is a competitive match or not, don’t even know where you have got that from. I used a friendly to show that attendances don’t equate to relevance because equally, I would discount friendly results in H2H as well as those played under organisations you do not belong. It seems that the historical data sites also agree with this criteria.

Where have I said I am speaking on behalf of “thousands” of other fans? You are making things up again, not just making them up but yet again hoisting your own argument and behaviour traits by their own petard. You do realise that yourself and Pembroke Allan have based most of your post on your proclamations that you are speaking for “everyone” and “everyone can see x,y and z”. I am factually telling you I and others have the same criteria because facts tell us this. This isn’t a presumption.

I suggest if you are to continue this debate then you have to read it again to save further pages of wasted time as currently you don’t seem to understand your own angle let alone anyone else’s.

He's boring.

Always on his terms and full of contradiction. We can't speak for others, he can. We can't ask for proof, he can. When he uses fact, he's right, when we do we're wrong.

Always the same replies 'read my post', 'I've not said that' etc.

Imagine actually knowing this guy?! What a laugh he must be. That kid who has always been there, done that, one better than everyone else!

Sharon. Feck off

He's boring.

Always on his terms and full of contradiction. We can't speak for others, he can. We can't ask for proof, he can. When he uses fact, he's right, when we do we're wrong.

Always the same replies 'read my post', 'I've not said that' etc.

Imagine actually knowing this guy?! What a laugh he must be. That kid who has always been there, done that, one better than everyone else!

Sharon. Feck off

Where is the contradiction?

Where have I said I can speak for others but others can’t?

Where have I said people can’t ask for proof where as I can?

When I use “fact” it is a fact that supports and in most cases, proves my point. You can’t use “fact” for a fact that does nothing to support your point, if that occurs then of course I will point that out.

When I say “read my post” or “I didn’t say that” then that suggests someone is implying my stance is something other than what I presented. The fact you think I do that often tells you how often people fall over themselves to change what so write. I can’t help that.

If you could answer those first 3 questions to qualify your post that would be great. Otherwise I assume it’s just a load of hot air and frustrated noise.

Last edited by welshcasual on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

You are now contradicting yourself and taking my point that I made against you. You seem completely lost as to what the point you are making is, and indeed where the debate is at.

Attendance does not mean relevance. As I correctly stated, clubs can have friendlies with a higher attendance than league and cup games, doesn’t mean they are more relevant than those games however.

So in terms of facts, it is a fact that we have met 68 times in English football. It is your opinion that other matches played outside that are relevant enough to count, it is my (and others) opinion that they aren’t.

But it is very telling that at the top of this page you are making the point that certain matches are relevant because they have higher attendances, yet now telling me certain matches aren’t relevant because of low attendances - yet trying to make the point they are all relevant?

You have tied yourself up in a knot with your segway type construction where in order to try and prove a point you take the discussion down one rabbit hole - hit a dead end, before forgetting why you went down that rabbit hole and then arguing against the very point you just made.

You really don't realise how stupid you are making yourself look do you? You can't decide what is a competitive match based on your opinion. You cannot speak for others either. Why not just count the matches played regulated by the Welsh FA? Simple reason is that would not give a true total of all competitive games played between the two clubs. We have played under English FA, Welsh FA and Eufa competition rules. All were competitive games and the records will stand forever, irrespective of whether or not you find them relevant. You said above that you and others find them irrelevant. So you are now qualified to speak on behalf of and decide the opinions of thousands of other fans as well as yourself. Stop being a silly billy, grow up and admit that you have made yourself look a right prune on this thread. Like an annoying kid in a school yard, knows he is wrong but will always have the last word. Both clubs have played under the rules of more than one football association, and you cannot erase the results from a particular one based on opinion. Try dealing with facts and you might not look so ridiculous. Have a good night.

Don’t realise or don’t agree? They are two very differing scenarios. I would suggest anyone that genuinely (and not protests as is the case here) that I sound stupid really does not grasp what is being said and the debate going way over their heads. Which may explain the fact that you, and others, seem to be making the same point even after proving it invalid and also making points that contradict your earlier ones. There seems a clear lack of understanding there.

Now to the latest point - you yet again seem to be not understanding what is being said to you. At no point have I said that I have decided what is a competitive match or not, don’t even know where you have got that from. I used a friendly to show that attendances don’t equate to relevance because equally, I would discount friendly results in H2H as well as those played under organisations you do not belong. It seems that the historical data sites also agree with this criteria.

Where have I said I am speaking on behalf of “thousands” of other fans? You are making things up again, not just making them up but yet again hoisting your own argument and behaviour traits by their own petard. You do realise that yourself and Pembroke Allan have based most of your post on your proclamations that you are speaking for “everyone” and “everyone can see x,y and z”. I am factually telling you I and others have the same criteria because facts tell us this. This isn’t a presumption.

I suggest if you are to continue this debate then you have to read it again to save further pages of wasted time as currently you don’t seem to understand your own angle let alone anyone else’s.

Wrong again regarding historical data sites agreeing. Only those selected to show matches played under the English FA agree. Try typing "Cardiff v Swansea history into your search engine. The first site you come to shows a complete history and is headed "South Wales Derby - Wikipedia". No need to go searching for sites to suit an agenda. It's at the top of the page and gives the head to head results in all competitive matches. It does not of course give results of friendly matches, as these do not tend to come under the jurisdiction of any particular football association. All officially sanctioned competitive matches are included covering the football associations of which both clubs are, or were members at the time of the matches. Even the ones which in your opinion are irrelevant. As said previously, I prefer dealing with factual information rather than the opinions of an individual.

[m

Lovely summing of him Steve! unless he says it nothing is factual or relevant.? Couldn't have put it better

Look at the seals whooping, completely unaware that he is absolutely missing the point and inventing an argument that nobody has made

I have not denied any facts, I have not denied there were x amount at the game, I have not denied we have played x amount in other tournaments.... my point is that I and others don’t find them relevant.

How can this be confusing so many of you?

At this point i think he's just commenting for the sole purpose of getting the last word even if he makes himself look like a huge tit with every post

Perhaps he likes being a tit? he makes confucious look confused he changes the argument so many times..

Best not to mention some of those more relevant competitions like the League Trophy which once attracted a massive crowd of just over one thousand when we both met, or the FAW Trophy which attracted just over two thousand. Swansea have had over twenty thousand at the Vetch for a Welsh Cup match against us. Not bad for an irrelevant match, although I would guess that a lot of those 20k thought it was a bit more than irrelevant otherwise they wouldn't have bothered turning up. If you check our results on a website quoting competitions governed by the English FA, you will get results from their competition. If you check our results in competitions governed by the Welsh FA, you will get the results from their competitions. Likewise, the same with EUFA competitions. As both teams have participated in tournaments governed by various football associations, the only accurate way to get head to head figures is to take all competitive matches into consideration, not a selected percentage based on an opinion as to levels of importance. Far better to deal with facts than opinions.

You are now contradicting yourself and taking my point that I made against you. You seem completely lost as to what the point you are making is, and indeed where the debate is at.

Attendance does not mean relevance. As I correctly stated, clubs can have friendlies with a higher attendance than league and cup games, doesn’t mean they are more relevant than those games however.

So in terms of facts, it is a fact that we have met 68 times in English football. It is your opinion that other matches played outside that are relevant enough to count, it is my (and others) opinion that they aren’t.

But it is very telling that at the top of this page you are making the point that certain matches are relevant because they have higher attendances, yet now telling me certain matches aren’t relevant because of low attendances - yet trying to make the point they are all relevant?

You have tied yourself up in a knot with your segway type construction where in order to try and prove a point you take the discussion down one rabbit hole - hit a dead end, before forgetting why you went down that rabbit hole and then arguing against the very point you just made.

You really don't realise how stupid you are making yourself look do you? You can't decide what is a competitive match based on your opinion. You cannot speak for others either. Why not just count the matches played regulated by the Welsh FA? Simple reason is that would not give a true total of all competitive games played between the two clubs. We have played under English FA, Welsh FA and Eufa competition rules. All were competitive games and the records will stand forever, irrespective of whether or not you find them relevant. You said above that you and others find them irrelevant. So you are now qualified to speak on behalf of and decide the opinions of thousands of other fans as well as yourself. Stop being a silly billy, grow up and admit that you have made yourself look a right prune on this thread. Like an annoying kid in a school yard, knows he is wrong but will always have the last word. Both clubs have played under the rules of more than one football association, and you cannot erase the results from a particular one based on opinion. Try dealing with facts and you might not look so ridiculous. Have a good night.

Don’t realise or don’t agree? They are two very differing scenarios. I would suggest anyone that genuinely (and not protests as is the case here) that I sound stupid really does not grasp what is being said and the debate going way over their heads. Which may explain the fact that you, and others, seem to be making the same point even after proving it invalid and also making points that contradict your earlier ones. There seems a clear lack of understanding there.

Now to the latest point - you yet again seem to be not understanding what is being said to you. At no point have I said that I have decided what is a competitive match or not, don’t even know where you have got that from. I used a friendly to show that attendances don’t equate to relevance because equally, I would discount friendly results in H2H as well as those played under organisations you do not belong. It seems that the historical data sites also agree with this criteria.

Where have I said I am speaking on behalf of “thousands” of other fans? You are making things up again, not just making them up but yet again hoisting your own argument and behaviour traits by their own petard. You do realise that yourself and Pembroke Allan have based most of your post on your proclamations that you are speaking for “everyone” and “everyone can see x,y and z”. I am factually telling you I and others have the same criteria because facts tell us this. This isn’t a presumption.

I suggest if you are to continue this debate then you have to read it again to save further pages of wasted time as currently you don’t seem to understand your own angle let alone anyone else’s.

Wrong again regarding historical data sites agreeing. Only those selected to show matches played under the English FA agree. Try typing "Cardiff v Swansea history into your search engine. The first site you come to shows a complete history and is headed "South Wales Derby - Wikipedia". No need to go searching for sites to suit an agenda. It's at the top of the page and gives the head to head results in all competitive matches. It does not of course give results of friendly matches, as these do not tend to come under the jurisdiction of any particular football association. All officially sanctioned competitive matches are included covering the football associations of which both clubs are, or were members at the time of the matches. Even the ones which in your opinion are irrelevant. As said previously, I prefer dealing with factual information rather than the opinions of an individual.

Steve hes got you in his spiders web of never ending debate the kind he thrives on! Best thing is to leave well alone otherwise still be debating this next season....

He's boring.

Always on his terms and full of contradiction. We can't speak for others, he can. We can't ask for proof, he can. When he uses fact, he's right, when we do we're wrong.

Always the same replies 'read my post', 'I've not said that' etc.

Imagine actually knowing this guy?! What a laugh he must be. That kid who has always been there, done that, one better than everyone else!

Sharon. Feck off

Where is the contradiction?

Where have I said I can speak for others but others can’t?

Where have I said people can’t ask for proof where as I can?

When I use “fact” it is a fact that supports and in most cases, proves my point. You can’t use “fact” for a fact that does nothing to support your point, if that occurs then of course I will point that out.

When I say “read my post” or “I didn’t say that” then that suggests someone is implying my stance is something other than what I presented. The fact you think I do that often tells you how often people fall over themselves to change what so write. I can’t help that.

If you could answer those first 3 questions to qualify your post that would be great. Otherwise I assume it’s just a load of hot air and frustrated noise.

You have proved my point.

My predictions in your replies were near word perfect. I'm not justifying your existence. You know the answers as does everyone else reading your tripe. To be honest, you're not boring, you're hilarious.

As you didn't deny you were 'that' kid. Bet you landed on the moon before Neil Armstrong? Scored more goals than Shearer in the PL? Shot Bin Laden? Bet you've even completed Candy Crush?!

You have proved my point.

My predictions in your replies were near word perfect. I'm not justifying your existence. You know the answers as does everyone else reading your tripe. To be honest, you're not boring, you're hilarious.

As you didn't deny you were 'that' kid. Bet you landed on the moon before Neil Armstrong? Scored more goals than Shearer in the PL? Shot Bin Laden? Bet you've even completed Candy Crush?!

So in other words you gave absolutely nothing to back up what you claimed?

As I thought then

Steve hes got you in his spiders web of never ending debate the kind he thrives on! Best thing is to leave well alone otherwise still be debating this next season....

I haven’t got anyone in anything.

Steve is annoyed that he cannot express his point well enough that I agree with him. All I can do is explain why I don’t agree with him, if that send him into a spiral of post after post of contradictive and pointless points then that’s up to him isn’t it. All I can do is continue to present my point well.

Wrong again regarding historical data sites agreeing. Only those selected to show matches played under the English FA agree. Try typing "Cardiff v Swansea history into your search engine. The first site you come to shows a complete history and is headed "South Wales Derby - Wikipedia". No need to go searching for sites to suit an agenda. It's at the top of the page and gives the head to head results in all competitive matches. It does not of course give results of friendly matches, as these do not tend to come under the jurisdiction of any particular football association. All officially sanctioned competitive matches are included covering the football associations of which both clubs are, or were members at the time of the matches. Even the ones which in your opinion are irrelevant. As said previously, I prefer dealing with factual information rather than the opinions of an individual.

It’s not wrong at all. These sites are not selected to show that criteria at all you are yet again resoundingly incorrect.

Those sites show all clubs h2h around Europe and have nothing to do with the English FA or their umbrella. Wikipedia is not a source I like, the last time I looked at Wikipedia it said Jonjo Shelley was in Harry Potter. But regardless Wikipedia is just confirming the matches took place, something you oddly are clinging onto even though it is not something I have ever denied - I have just questioned their relevance. Which is why such sites don’t include them ether.

Type in “Cardiff v Swansea h2h” into google, which is what most people looking for a Cardiff vs Swansea h2h record would type in (funnily enough) - the first database that shows a h2h is the following:-

https://www.11v11.com/teams/swansea-cit ... ff%20City/

No need to search in order to support your view, it’s on the first page and described as “the home of football data and statistics”

Shelvey*

Wrong again regarding historical data sites agreeing. Only those selected to show matches played under the English FA agree. Try typing "Cardiff v Swansea history into your search engine. The first site you come to shows a complete history and is headed "South Wales Derby - Wikipedia". No need to go searching for sites to suit an agenda. It's at the top of the page and gives the head to head results in all competitive matches. It does not of course give results of friendly matches, as these do not tend to come under the jurisdiction of any particular football association. All officially sanctioned competitive matches are included covering the football associations of which both clubs are, or were members at the time of the matches. Even the ones which in your opinion are irrelevant. As said previously, I prefer dealing with factual information rather than the opinions of an individual.

It’s not wrong at all. These sites are not selected to show that criteria at all you are yet again resoundingly incorrect.

Those sites show all clubs h2h around Europe and have nothing to do with the English FA or their umbrella. Wikipedia is not a source I like, the last time I looked at Wikipedia it said Jonjo Shelley was in Harry Potter. But regardless Wikipedia is just confirming the matches took place, something you oddly are clinging onto even though it is not something I have ever denied - I have just questioned their relevance. Which is why such sites don’t include them ether.

Type in “Cardiff v Swansea h2h” into google, which is what most people looking for a Cardiff vs Swansea h2h record would type in (funnily enough) - the first database that shows a h2h is the following:-

https://www.11v11.com/teams/swansea-cit ... ff%20City/

No need to search in order to support your view, it’s on the first page and described as “the home of football data and statistics”

Silly me using the world's largest online encyclopedia for a list of all competition results between two teams. At least we both agree that these matches took place and that the clubs have played more than sixty odd matches against one another. As you say, you have just "questioned" their relevance. The Welsh FA (an official organisation incidentally) deem them to be relevant, as did over twenty thousand people at the Vetch and many more at other games. EUFA deemed them relevant, they even allowed the winners into a major European competition. Your idea of relevant is obviously different to many others, including the Welsh FA and EUFA, but you are quite entitled to your opinion, even if it means ignoring facts.

As Allan says above, this will go on forever if I keep responding to your replies, so I will call it a day and let you have the last word, just like the annoying kid in the school playground mentioned yesterday. Wouldn't want you to lose any sleep worrying that there may be a thread on here in which you did not get the final say.

Probably be a good idea if you debated on a more juvenile forum, avoid the grown ups and you may not come across as being so out of your depth, or as Grange End used to so eloquently describe you - cuckoo. Anyway, that's me done, don't forget to make sure your name appears as having made the last comment, and have a nice day.

Silly me using the world's largest online encyclopedia for a list of all competition results between two teams. At least we both agree that these matches took place and that the clubs have played more than sixty odd matches against one another. As you say, you have just "questioned" their relevance. The Welsh FA (an official organisation incidentally) deem them to be relevant, as did over twenty thousand people at the Vetch and many more at other games. EUFA deemed them relevant, they even allowed the winners into a major European competition. Your idea of relevant is obviously different to many others, including the Welsh FA and EUFA, but you are quite entitled to your opinion, even if it means ignoring facts.

As Allan says above, this will go on forever if I keep responding to your replies, so I will call it a day and let you have the last word, just like the annoying kid in the school playground mentioned yesterday. Wouldn't want you to lose any sleep worrying that there may be a thread on here in which you did not get the final say.

Probably be a good idea if you debated on a more juvenile forum, avoid the grown ups and you may not come across as being so out of your depth, or as Grange End used to so eloquently describe you - cuckoo. Anyway, that's me done, don't forget to make sure your name appears as having made the last comment, and have a nice day.

Not silly, just an odd place to look. I can’t imagine too many people would look there for such a specific request.

Why do you mean at least we agree? I have never even remotely hinted otherwise. I am fully aware we have played outside of the English system, my point was that I and others find them irrelevant.

The Welsh FA and English FA also deem pre season friendlies relevant as they have to sign off on their teams playing friendlies within the UK, the people that attend those also find them relevant (by your logic) - but that still doesn’t ACTUALLY make them relevant does it?

The Welsh FA, English FA and FIFA also deemed the contract you signed with Sala relevant - yet your club disagrees. That’s football and that’s opinions for you. Nobody is forcing you to agree with me and others and have said countless times that should you feel the need to count those extra games from these competitions then you are more than welcome to.

Allan is right (that doesn’t happen often) but if someone is trying to change my mind and it isn’t working then it is only proper to confirm my mind has not been changed and to explain why. I assume your jibes about last word, losing sleep, childhood, out of depth, cuckoo (all the boring, repetitive and regurgitated nonsense that is always trotted our when someone feels beaten in debate) are just frustrated lashing out that you were unable to change my mind.

I will do as I always do on that situation, not lower myself and smirk, raise a small chuckle with rolled eyes.

H2H below:-

https://www.11v11.com/teams/swansea-cit ... ff%20City/

Segway ha ha... back of the class.

Priceless.

Segway ha ha... back of the class.

Priceless.

Whooooosh

As soon as I saw the thread, I knew it would include the self-made successful entrepreneur spouting his views. What I will say, is that this time he's not including full facts and being subjective to suit an agenda, very unlike his self proclaimed stance on debate and dare I say it, he's wrong/incorrect...That's all I need to say.

Another that used to pretend I’m a troll and has clearly now admitted I use full facts. It’s amazing what comes out when one has an opinion instead of fact based statements isn’t it, suddenly “usually I’m fantastic” etc etc etc

There is nothing wrong or incorrect about what I have said. I, like others find flashes outside the English football tier irrelevant. It’s as simple as that, there is no “wrong”, you may disagree of course, but there is no “wrong”.

You are a troll, allowed on here merely for hits. My view on you has never changed in that respect. That is backed up by the hundreds/thousands of accounts made by yourself.

Secondly, you are not using 'full' facts' as you claim to do in debate. My tone on that point is sarcastic, which has clearly gone over you head.

Finally, you are wrong. A friendly fixture does not count, quite obvious ; Every other fixture is counted. The clue is 'every other fixture, outside a friendly', not just an English pyramid fixture. You've given an opinion on the matter, not used full facts.