What's the point in having a youth system?

Was just reading an article on BBC where Liverpool look to be getting Harvey Elliot from Fulham who is the youngest ever player to play in the PL but due to his age they will not need to pay a transfer fee, only a compensation package. This is very similar to the Rabbi Matondo transfer to Man City where they only had to pay 500k in compensation.

So what's the point in clubs like Cardiff spending money on developing youth players when clubs like Man City and Liverpool can just take them for peanuts?




Cardiff City have one of Wales' brightest young talents snatched away from them by Manchester City

Teen wonder Rabbi Matondo, perhaps the best youngster produced by the Bluebirds since Aaron Ramsey, is poached by the Premier League leaders


Welsh teen ace Rabbi Matondo has been poached by Manchester City
Teen wonder Rabbi Matondo, perhaps the best youngster produced by the Bluebirds since Aaron Ramsey, is poached by the Premier League leaders

One of the brightest prospects in Welsh football has been snatched away from Cardiff City by Premier League leaders Manchester City.

Rabbi Matondo, who plays for the Wales under-17s side, was viewed by some as the best youngster to come through the Bluebirds Academy system since Aaron Ramsey.

But Pep Guardiola's Man City have swooped to lure him north... and there is nothing Cardiff can do about it.

Under controversial new rules brought in to govern youth football in the UK, any club with a Category One Academy status can move in for the brightest teenage talent in the country.

Because Cardiff only have Category Two status for their own Academy, their hands were tied and they were helpless to keep hold of teen wonder Matondo.

We understand Manchester City have provided a bumper package to persuade Matondo to up sticks and head north.

The move costs the Bluebirds not only a top talent in the making, but also the prospect of making millions by one day selling him on to a bigger club.

Matondo may have made the breakthrough in the Bluebirds team under Paul Trollope, following in the footsteps of other home-grown stars such as Ramsey, Joe Ledley, Rob Earnshaw, James Collins and Chris Gunter.

Aaron Ramsey came through Cardiff City's academy


Matondo could have been the best home-grown Bluebird since a young Ramsey
It would seem his prospects of breaking into the Man City first-team set-up in the near future are more limited. However, Man City have been trawling the whole of the UK to snap up the finest teenage talent in their bid to become the number one superpower of the British game.

Chris Coleman and his Wales coaching staff will be keeping a close eye on proceedings because Matondo qualifies for England as well as the Dragons.

He is viewed within the Welsh set up as a hugely gifted prospect who brings something different to the party with his blinding pace and trickery on the ball and who could follow Ryan Giggs and Gareth Bale by playing on the wing for his country.

Cardiff spent a number of years trying to groom Matondo for the top with them, but chief executive Ken Choo said: "Unfortunately, under the current rules there was nothing we could do to keep hold of Rabbi.

"It's disappointing, of course, but there are regulations in place and we were advised by lawyers that we can't do anything to fight it."

We are listening to supporters, says Cardiff City chief executive Ken Choo
Ken Choo is pragmatic about Man City's swoop
The rules Choo refers to come under the title of Elite Player Performance Plan, a development initiated by the Premier League designed to improve the quality and quantity of home-grown players at top English clubs.

It in effect permits free movement of young players, provided the club with Category One Academy status (Man City) moves in for a player attached to a club with a lower one (Cardiff).

A fixed tariff has been put in place, meaning the bigger clubs can get young players for as little as £3,000 if they are aged 9 to 11, or £12,500 for 12 to 16-year-olds.

It is unclear how little the Bluebirds received for Matondo. Whatever the sum, it will pale into insignificance compared to what they could have netted had he remained in the Welsh capital and broke into Trollope's team before being sold like Ramsey.


Matondo is from Merseyside originally, but settled into south Wales from a very young age and played his age-grade football here.

He has shone for Wales' successful Victory Shield team and recently helped the under-17s trounce Malta 3-0.

Matondo is one of a number of dual qualified teen sensations Wales will have a tug-of-war over with England in the coming years. Others include Liverpool young gun Ben Woodburn and midfield starlet Ethan Ampadu, who made his Exeter debut at just 15 years of age,

However, Coleman is hoping Wales' success in Euro 2016 will ensure most of the next generation will commit to the Dragons at senior level.

The rules need a big shake up that's for sure.

Was just reading an article on BBC where Liverpool look to be getting Harvey Elliot from Fulham who is the youngest ever player to play in the PL but due to his age they will not need to pay a transfer fee, only a compensation package. This is very similar to the Rabbi Matondo transfer to Man City where they only had to pay 500k in compensation.

So what's the point in clubs like Cardiff spending money on developing youth players when clubs like Man City and Liverpool can just take them for peanuts?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48913138

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... t-11929955

Put up a thread yesterday about this liverpool will pay a maximum of £4.5m for a Dutch youngster who if makes it can command a fee over 50m probably diabolical

The rules need a big shake up that's for sure.

They were done other season and it made it easier for big clubs to strip academies of lesser clubs with little redress! its to do with new TV deal the efl clubs were ripped off on TV fees and this aswell

The rules need a big shake up that's for sure.

They were done other season and it made it easier for big clubs to strip academies of lesser clubs with little redress! its to do with new TV deal the efl clubs were ripped off on TV fees and this aswell

Disgrace.

But as we saw last season it's all about the few clubs at the top.

So I believe one of the rules is if a club has a higher academy status than you then they can take any youngsters for a basic fee (I have £125k in my head, but could be wrong!).

This happened with Matondo to Manchester City and I believe one of our youth captains recently joined Man United in similar circumstances too. This is because we have a status 2 academy and Man City, Man United, etc. have a status 1 academy. Ultimately, the player can choose to stay, but why would you? Our academy isn't the best, so you'd want to join a huge club with better facilities for you to progress.

To keep and develop these players for ourselves we need to improve our own academy. Obviously this doesn't always work, as West Brom have an incredible academy but 1 of their players just joined Barcelona and another is set to join Man City. I agree, it's totally wrong that you spend 8,9 years developing a player from the age of 7,8 and then some big club comes around and poaches them to finish the development for 2 years and then loans the lad out for 4 years and then will probably sell them on for a fee and a sell-on clause.

If I was Tan I'd look at the cost for our academy and consider scrapping it.

The system has so many flaws it's never going to be fair unless there is a mass shake up and even then agents will find a way around it.

In my view ours has been badly neglected for the last 9yrs.

If I was Tan I'd look at the cost for our academy and consider scrapping it.

The system has so many flaws it's never going to be fair unless there is a mass shake up and even then agents will find a way around it.

When my son was in the academy over 10 years ago I was told the cost was in excess of £1m a year

In my view ours has been badly neglected for the last 9yrs.

Spoken to a few down the club who agree. Not having our own training ground is probably the main problem. Shows a lot when the best talents are happy to leave with ease.

If I was Tan I'd look at the cost for our academy and consider scrapping it.

The system has so many flaws it's never going to be fair unless there is a mass shake up and even then agents will find a way around it.

When my son was in the academy over 10 years ago I was told the cost was in excess of £1m a year

Jeezzz no doubt the running costs have gone up as well since then.

As much as I would love to see a home grown player come through the ranks the reality is that anyone decent enough will get snapped up by the big boys.

Saw a post on the other forum that one of the fans was speaking to a current youth players dad. Apparently Man city have tried to come in for him but he has already signed an academy contract. The problem is that as soon as hes 18 sounds like he wants to go to Man city. That will mean man city sign another youth player for minimal compensation. Dont understand why the players do it myself. If you are 16 surely you will be looking to play and the club can look to offer you an already healthy package to sign a permanent deal. That way the player gets game time at a club that wants to see him succeed.

I dont really care so much if you a youth player wants to leave once they have become a valued first teamer as the club will get paid a worthwhile fee, but this idea that big clubs tap up smaller club players to loan them out doesnt sit well with me.

Saw a post on the other forum that one of the fans was speaking to a current youth players dad. Apparently Man city have tried to come in for him but he has already signed an academy contract. The problem is that as soon as hes 18 sounds like he wants to go to Man city. That will mean man city sign another youth player for minimal compensation. Dont understand why the players do it myself. If you are 16 surely you will be looking to play and the club can look to offer you an already healthy package to sign a permanent deal. That way the player gets game time at a club that wants to see him succeed.

I dont really care so much if you a youth player wants to leave once they have become a valued first teamer as the club will get paid a worthwhile fee, but this idea that big clubs tap up smaller club players to loan them out doesnt sit well with me.

At least if the lad is contracted then we can ask for a fee and sell-on clauses. Problems arise when they're younger and can be sniped from the big clubs for £20k max, with no sell-ons (just like Matondo and another lad just joined United).

Just Register all our youth to one of Tan’s overseas clubs and “loan” them through development back to us. Place a clause of purchase for Cardiff after age 18.

Just Register all our youth to one of Tan’s overseas clubs and “loan” them through development back to us. Place a clause of purchase for Cardiff after age 18.

The Chelsea way! Probably a viable loop hole but doubt it's worth it. I'm sure he's sold Sarajevo now. Owns Kortrijk and the MLS side soon

They need to change the rules but look at the positive, at least Rabbi Matondo will play for Wales and make our national team stronger and that's down to us. Its still quite nice to see a player from Cardiff play for Wales but yeah sucks for us at club level and it should be changed imo.

Surely as Capital of Wales we should such have a Cat 1 Academy like our little brother down West or not bother to have an Academy? Apparently the Jacks Academy costs £4m a year to run but they got £15 + for Dan James!

Just Register all our youth to one of Tan’s overseas clubs and “loan” them through development back to us. Place a clause of purchase for Cardiff after age 18.

So many things wrong with this I don’t no where to begin.

Let’s not forget there children not pieces of meat.

Rabbi Matomdo was sold by Man City to Shalke 04 for £11 million in January this year. They reputedly paid us £500,000 for him so made an £10.5 million profit on him without ever playing him. He has played 7 games for Shalke. Seems almost criminal in the circumstances.

Just Register all our youth to one of Tan’s overseas clubs and “loan” them through development back to us. Place a clause of purchase for Cardiff after age 18.

So many things wrong with this I don’t no where to begin.

Let’s not forget there children not pieces of meat.

“They’re” and you have a fair point, however the existing system treats them no differently in my opinion and short sales non-Premier league clubs. So in reality it would be finding a loop hole in an already corrupt system. The children have been given the chance of a lifetime by their parent club, the exploitation by Man City et al is who we all should be pointing the finger at.

Surely as Capital of Wales we should such have a Cat 1 Academy like our little brother down West or not bother to have an Academy? Apparently the Jacks Academy costs £4m a year to run but they got £15 + for Dan James!

If he had been in the academy for 4 years Swansea would have spent £16 m on the academy and if he is the only player they have got money for then a £1m loss
Academy football is expensive for 90% of clubs I believe Brentford got rid of their academy and have seen no down turn in their performance in the first team and lets face it for most of us the first team is all that counts

Just Register all our youth to one of Tan’s overseas clubs and “loan” them through development back to us. Place a clause of purchase for Cardiff after age 18.

So many things wrong with this I don’t no where to begin.

Let’s not forget there children not pieces of meat.

“They’re” and you have a fair point, however the existing system treats them no differently in my opinion and short sales non-Premier league clubs. So in reality it would be finding a loop hole in an already corrupt system. The children have been given the chance of a lifetime by their parent club, the exploitation by Man City et al is who we all should be pointing the finger at.

It’s not a loop hole it’s a dumb idea.

Loaning children around different clubs.

Thanks for the spelling tip though greatly appreciated I hope I remember it in future.

In my view ours has been badly neglected for the last 9yrs.

Spoken to a few down the club who agree. Not having our own training ground is probably the main problem. Shows a lot when the best talents are happy to leave with ease.

Been very worrying for years.

Surely as Capital of Wales we should such have a Cat 1 Academy like our little brother down West or not bother to have an Academy? Apparently the Jacks Academy costs £4m a year to run but they got £15 + for Dan James!

Always thought the point of academies was to produce players for the 1st team not to produce them to sell on? No point in running it in 1st place....

Surely as Capital of Wales we should such have a Cat 1 Academy like our little brother down West or not bother to have an Academy? Apparently the Jacks Academy costs £4m a year to run but they got £15 + for Dan James!

Dan james was bought from hull ,he wasnt home grown,was bought for 72k at 16 years of age

Surely as Capital of Wales we should such have a Cat 1 Academy like our little brother down West or not bother to have an Academy? Apparently the Jacks Academy costs £4m a year to run but they got £15 + for Dan James!

Always thought the point of academies was to produce players for the 1st team not to produce them to sell on? No point in running it in 1st place....

There's more point running it to sell. Make more money that way. Chelsea, Man City, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool etc. make millions selling youth players and adding huge sell-on clauses.

Surely as Capital of Wales we should such have a Cat 1 Academy like our little brother down West or not bother to have an Academy? Apparently the Jacks Academy costs £4m a year to run but they got £15 + for Dan James!

If he had been in the academy for 4 years Swansea would have spent £16 m on the academy and if he is the only player they have got money for then a £1m loss
Academy football is expensive for 90% of clubs I believe Brentford got rid of their academy and have seen no down turn in their performance in the first team and lets face it for most of us the first team is all that counts

Dan James not the only player to make it from their Academy, Joe Allan,Ben Davies, Jazz plus nine played for their first team last season including Connor Roberts, Joe Rondan both Welsh Internationals and not forgetting their Jock International goalscorer! You don’t have to be a local to come through your academy, look at Joe Ralls ! I believe they took Dan James from Hull as a 16year Old because they were a Cat 1 Academy and made at least 15m profit, so it does pay to have a Cat 1 Academy?

We've got a few teams coming up which very good players U14 U15 U16 level. Tbey compete against the bigger teams and also do well. Be interesting to see the break through over the next couple of year's

We've got a few teams coming up which very good players U14 U15 U16 level. Tbey compete against the bigger teams and also do well. Be interesting to see the break through over the next couple of year's

Problem is a few of our best youth players have gone to Prem teams for tiny fees with no input required from the club.

We've got a few teams coming up which very good players U14 U15 U16 level. Tbey compete against the bigger teams and also do well. Be interesting to see the break through over the next couple of year's

Problem is a few of our best youth players have gone to Prem teams for tiny fees with no input required from the club.

When my son played for the academy they played the following regualary Southampton,Bristol City, WBA , Wolves , Aston Villa, Coventry , Leicester. Reading Southampton , Birmingham The would also play Man Utd and Chelsea Southampton at the time we’re the top academy in the country with 5 of my sons age group playing in the premier league for them and Cardiff beat them 5-1 and with all games close apart from one. 7 of the boys played for Wales and were in the side that beat England 4-0 in the victory shield So what has happened to that team
Only one really played for city Declan John
Tom Lockyer released and went to Bristol Rovers
Tom O’Sullivan now at Hereford
Declan Dalley went to Man Utd after being released now not playing
Theo Wharton players in Nuneaton I believe
Jaye Bowen last I heard at Merthyr Town
Jack Waters not playing anymore
Jack Britton last I heard playing in Portugal
Josh Yowerth Banned from playing for 4 years
The rest are either not playing or playing in welsh leagues

I know that 3 of the players were invited to Man Utd at age 14 and were entertain by Manchester United and met the first team
By the age the players were 16 Man Utd never came back and two of those players were with Cardiff until age 22 and made not one league apperance
The fact that one player played for the first team sees this group as being a success That is football for you