Hillsborough Disaster

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

Went to games before Hillsborough and had problem at lepping stand with being boxed in , it was an accident waiting to happen! But right there was more than the 2 on trial guilty of failings but got to have scapegoats to appease society's opinion on disaster...

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

Went to games before Hillsborough and had problem at lepping stand with being boxed in , it was an accident waiting to happen! But right there was more than the 2 on trial guilty of failings but got to have scapegoats to appease society's opinion on disaster...

There were a number of ground where fans were confined in pens with large areas of vacant terraces available. Its a real inspector calls tragedy, there's blames everywhere including for all fans who invaded pitches and genrally played up throughout the 70's and 80's.

This is a hugely frustrating. Do I think Duckenfield was guilty. Yes, but not of this charge. This was first and foremeost an accident given the expectations at the time.

Duckenfield was undoubtly guilty of the biggest insitutionalised conspiracy to pervert the course of justice that this country has witnessed. It cost hundreds of millions of pound but more importatntly it prevented 96 innocent peolple from resting in peace. all that while his co conspirators were allowed to get on with their lives, or have peacefully left this earth. The families of those seeking justice should rightly feel aggrieved.

I'm uncomfortable with the H and S conviction of the club secretary. By todays standards he's banged to rights. If people were routinely facing these sort of charges in 1989 then fair enough. But they weren't and I cant help feel he's been judged by todays expectations.

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

Went to games before Hillsborough and had problem at lepping stand with being boxed in , it was an accident waiting to happen! But right there was more than the 2 on trial guilty of failings but got to have scapegoats to appease society's opinion on disaster...

There were a number of ground where fans were confined in pens with large areas of vacant terraces available. Its a real inspector calls tragedy, there's blames everywhere including for all fans who invaded pitches and genrally played up throughout the 70's and 80's.

This is a hugely frustrating. Do I think Duckenfield was guilty. Yes, but not of this charge. This was first and foremeost an accident given the expectations at the time.

Duckenfield was undoubtly guilty of the biggest insitutionalised conspiracy to pervert the course of justice that this country has witnessed. It cost hundreds of millions of pound but more importatntly it prevented 96 innocent peolple from resting in peace. all that while his co conspirators were allowed to get on with their lives, or have peacefully left this earth. The families of those seeking justice should rightly feel aggrieved.

I'm uncomfortable with the H and S conviction of the club secretary. By todays standards he's banged to rights. If people were routinely facing these sort of charges in 1989 then fair enough. But they weren't and I cant help feel he's been judged by todays expectations.

Hasnt he been convicted of h&s laws that were applicable at the time? But your right about dunkensfield he is being tried for wrong thing should been perverting justice instead they are trying to put sole blame on him for many failings that existed at that time in football. Scape gpat comes to mind to justify the many millions £££££s spent ans all they get is one person?

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

Went to games before Hillsborough and had problem at lepping stand with being boxed in , it was an accident waiting to happen! But right there was more than the 2 on trial guilty of failings but got to have scapegoats to appease society's opinion on disaster...

There were a number of ground where fans were confined in pens with large areas of vacant terraces available. Its a real inspector calls tragedy, there's blames everywhere including for all fans who invaded pitches and genrally played up throughout the 70's and 80's.

This is a hugely frustrating. Do I think Duckenfield was guilty. Yes, but not of this charge. This was first and foremeost an accident given the expectations at the time.

Duckenfield was undoubtly guilty of the biggest insitutionalised conspiracy to pervert the course of justice that this country has witnessed. It cost hundreds of millions of pound but more importatntly it prevented 96 innocent peolple from resting in peace. all that while his co conspirators were allowed to get on with their lives, or have peacefully left this earth. The families of those seeking justice should rightly feel aggrieved.

I'm uncomfortable with the H and S conviction of the club secretary. By todays standards he's banged to rights. If people were routinely facing these sort of charges in 1989 then fair enough. But they weren't and I cant help feel he's been judged by todays expectations.

Hasnt he been convicted of h&s laws that were applicable at the time? But your right about dunkensfield he is being tried for wrong thing should been perverting justice instead they are trying to put sole blame on him for many failings that existed at that time in football. Scape gpat comes to mind to justify the many millions £££££s spent ans all they get is one person?

The laws must have exoisted but I'm pretty sure people being tried under this legislation is a relatively new thing. So if they start going back to that time and bringing other people to book over their failings, then fair enough. But they wont.

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

Went to games before Hillsborough and had problem at lepping stand with being boxed in , it was an accident waiting to happen! But right there was more than the 2 on trial guilty of failings but got to have scapegoats to appease society's opinion on disaster...

There were a number of ground where fans were confined in pens with large areas of vacant terraces available. Its a real inspector calls tragedy, there's blames everywhere including for all fans who invaded pitches and genrally played up throughout the 70's and 80's.

This is a hugely frustrating. Do I think Duckenfield was guilty. Yes, but not of this charge. This was first and foremeost an accident given the expectations at the time.

Duckenfield was undoubtly guilty of the biggest insitutionalised conspiracy to pervert the course of justice that this country has witnessed. It cost hundreds of millions of pound but more importatntly it prevented 96 innocent peolple from resting in peace. all that while his co conspirators were allowed to get on with their lives, or have peacefully left this earth. The families of those seeking justice should rightly feel aggrieved.

I'm uncomfortable with the H and S conviction of the club secretary. By todays standards he's banged to rights. If people were routinely facing these sort of charges in 1989 then fair enough. But they weren't and I cant help feel he's been judged by todays expectations.

Hasnt he been convicted of h&s laws that were applicable at the time? But your right about dunkensfield he is being tried for wrong thing should been perverting justice instead they are trying to put sole blame on him for many failings that existed at that time in football. Scape gpat comes to mind to justify the many millions £££££s spent ans all they get is one person?

The laws must have exoisted but I'm pretty sure people being tried under this legislation is a relatively new thing. So if they start going back to that time and bringing other people to book over their failings, then fair enough. But they wont.

What bothers me is dunkensfield doesnt stand a chance jury couldn't decide after deliberating for a week, now cps want to continue its getting like witch hunt what happens if he is found not guilty if new trial then what, will they go looking for someone else to blame?

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

its a whitewash too..Liverpools fans have refused to take any blame for this and Liverpool the City have stood behind that...just do not see how that can be possible. when fences, pens, and huge amounts of coppers at football were the result of fans behaviour at the time , including Liverpool fans. yes there were mistakes made on the day but there were ticket less fans { been there done that ,most games were not all ticket ,so it was turn up anyway and try it on } and drunk don't give a fck fans { done that too } ..but no blame, zero ?

what happened that day still shocks me , although it was an accident waiting to happen ,nobody thought it would..
anyway , if I were a Liverpool fan that day or it had happened at a City game , at the back pushing forward unaware of whats going on down the front , sober or drunk, with or without ticket..id feel partly responsible and wouldn't feel at all comfortable watching this witch hunt.

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

Agree entirely with you. I encountered a few crush scares over the years and I know what its like to be crammed into a small space with no one apparently in charge of the situation. The fault lies with the culture in place at the time, which was that all football fans were trouble makers and should be caged in and treated like animals. To blame two individuals for a fault in the whole system is totally unfair but probably sums up the current culture where scapegoats are needed.

time to draw a line under it all ,there was blame on all sides including the liverpool fans ,thankfully football has changed and it probably won't happen ever again

First of all my sympathy and thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones that day.

However, I don't profess to be an expert on anything but this whole stuff going on now seems harsh to me.

Perhaps I am being naieve as I don't know the total ins and outs other than the odd documentary iv seen but on the Radio yesterday they said that the former head of safety at Sheffield Wednesday had been found guilty as it was his job to prevent a build up of people at the turnstyles and he is now awaiting sentencing and a probable jail sentence.

That's seems very harsh to me, from the bits I'v seem and the football games iv been to just how are you meant to stop a build up of people at the turnstyles, they cant do it now never mind in 1989, thoughts?

by todays standards none of the grounds were anywhere near safe back then.
and everyone, the clubs, police , FA , government and even fans were aware of it was an accident waiting happen but also something everyone totally ignored and largly accepted as how football was.

think it completely unfair to push the blame on 1 or 2 people is my take on it.

but it must be difficult for those to young or not interested enough to go to football in the 70s ,early 80s and before to grasp exactly how it was.
looking back at some games i attended { I attended a lot of random games as well as Cardiff at the time } maybe im lucky to be alive and probably been at times part of the problem .

I agree, it's just a blame game now.

its a whitewash too..Liverpools fans have refused to take any blame for this and Liverpool the City have stood behind that...just do not see how that can be possible. when fences, pens, and huge amounts of coppers at football were the result of fans behaviour at the time , including Liverpool fans. yes there were mistakes made on the day but there were ticket less fans { been there done that ,most games were not all ticket ,so it was turn up anyway and try it on } and drunk don't give a fck fans { done that too } ..but no blame, zero ?

what happened that day still shocks me , although it was an accident waiting to happen ,nobody thought it would..
anyway , if I were a Liverpool fan that day or it had happened at a City game , at the back pushing forward unaware of whats going on down the front , sober or drunk, with or without ticket..id feel partly responsible and wouldn't feel at all comfortable watching this witch hunt.

It is a witch hunt everyone is to blame except fans whilst it was said that they didn't contribute to the disaster to take no responsibility is like saying we wasn't there so had nothing to do with it! They even tried to blame 1st aiders for deaths of fans because coroner set same time of death for all fans at inquest, but because it was known some were still alive they tried to say they left them to die? Whilst sympathise when is this going to end? Because sure if dukensfield is cleared that wont satisfy people because its not what they want and will look for someone else to blame ....

time to draw a line under it all ,there was blame on all sides including the liverpool fans ,thankfully football has changed and it probably won't happen ever again

so much has changed mate. and most of the changes came about due to the thousand and one things that were wrong on that day...
if it was as simple as all point at one man and blame him then nothing would have changed other than sacking the 1 bloke.

This whole saga is an interesting, if not unfortunate one and some good responses above


It seems that Graham Mackrell was was charged for "breaching the legal duty under the 1974 Health and Safety Act to take reasonable care at work for people’s safety" and convicted on legislation that existed at the time of the sad event

The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine (not imprisonment)


Something I find that needs answers is that Mackrell (Wednesday’s safety officer at the time of the 1989 disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died) is latterly a football administrator for the League Managers Association (LMA) and runs its integrity programme

To date, the LMA has refused to comment on the position


David Duckenfield, as we know, was the designated Match Commander for South Yorkshire Police on the day of the fateful game and was charged on a criminal charge of "gross negligence manslaughter"

In consultation with and acting on the advice of fellow officers on the ground, the trial heard Mr Duckenfield ordered the opening of exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the ground at 14:52 BST, eight minutes before kick off, after the area outside the turnstiles became dangerously overcrowded

More than 2,000 fans entered through exit gate C once it was opened and many headed for the tunnel ahead of them, which led to the central pens where the crush happened.

Prosecutors alleged Mr Duckenfield had "ultimate responsibility" at the ground and should have made "key lifesaving decisions" on the day.


What the jury had to decide is whether Mr Duckenfield's actions on the day were 'reckless' and therefor culpable? It seems they were pretty much split down the middle on that


Personally, I think that whilst the Liverpool families want/need/deserve closure on the sad events of that day, to pin the deaths down to one individual rather than an amalgam of errors and misjudgements on the day smacks of more than a little scapegoatism

Although there is a term often used that says "the buck stops at the top", it could be argued that person was the Chief Constable at that time; the man who put the inexperienced (in football matches) Duckenfield in charge of the event

Duckenfield's defence argued the case against Mr Duckenfield was "breathtakingly unfair" and said he had "tried to do the right thing" and given that none of us was there, who are we to say he didn't?

Notwithstanding the 96 innocent individuals who lost their lives on that sad day, a question that has always remained unanswered is how where there more Liverpool supporters outside than had tickets for the game?

Pointers that this was the case is described in reports that state "The gates were opened to avoid a crush and fans poured into an already full Leppings Lane End"

And let's not forget the influence of pitch-side fences at that time; or the reasons they were there...!

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This whole saga is an interesting, if not unfortunate one and some good responses above


It seems that Graham Mackrell was was charged for "breaching the legal duty under the 1974 Health and Safety Act to take reasonable care at work for people’s safety" and convicted on legislation that existed at the time of the sad event

The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine (not imprisonment)


Something I find that needs answers is that Mackrell (Wednesday’s safety officer at the time of the 1989 disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died) is latterly a football administrator for the League Managers Association (LMA) and runs its integrity programme

To date, the LMA has refused to comment on the position


David Duckenfield, as we know, was the designated Match Commander for South Yorkshire Police on the day of the fateful game and was charged on a criminal charge of "gross negligence manslaughter"

In consultation with and acting on the advice of fellow officers on the ground, the trial heard Mr Duckenfield ordered the opening of exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the ground at 14:52 BST, eight minutes before kick off, after the area outside the turnstiles became dangerously overcrowded

More than 2,000 fans entered through exit gate C once it was opened and many headed for the tunnel ahead of them, which led to the central pens where the crush happened.

Prosecutors alleged Mr Duckenfield had "ultimate responsibility" at the ground and should have made "key lifesaving decisions" on the day.


What the jury had to decide is whether Mr Duckenfield's actions on the day were 'reckless' and therefor culpable? It seems they were pretty much split down the middle on that


Personally, I think that whilst the Liverpool families want/need/deserve closure on the sad events of that day, to pin the deaths down to one individual rather than an amalgam of errors and misjudgements on the day smacks of more than a little scapegoatism

Although there is a term often used that says "the buck stops at the top", it could be argued that person was the Chief Constable at that time; the man who put the inexperienced (in football matches) Duckenfield in charge of the event

Duckenfield's defence argued the case against Mr Duckenfield was "breathtakingly unfair" and said he had "tried to do the right thing" and given that none of us was there, who are we to say he didn't?

Notwithstanding the 96 innocent individuals who lost their lives on that sad day, a question that has always remained unanswered is how where there more Liverpool supporters outside than had tickets for the game?

Pointers that this was the case is described in reports that state "The gates were opened to avoid a crush and fans poured into an already full Leppings Lane End"

And let's not forget the influence of pitch-side fences at that time; or the reasons they were there...!

Should be interesting to see reaction if mackrell is fined as law says?

This whole saga is an interesting, if not unfortunate one and some good responses above


It seems that Graham Mackrell was was charged for "breaching the legal duty under the 1974 Health and Safety Act to take reasonable care at work for people’s safety" and convicted on legislation that existed at the time of the sad event

The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine (not imprisonment)


Something I find that needs answers is that Mackrell (Wednesday’s safety officer at the time of the 1989 disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died) is latterly a football administrator for the League Managers Association (LMA) and runs its integrity programme

To date, the LMA has refused to comment on the position


David Duckenfield, as we know, was the designated Match Commander for South Yorkshire Police on the day of the fateful game and was charged on a criminal charge of "gross negligence manslaughter"

In consultation with and acting on the advice of fellow officers on the ground, the trial heard Mr Duckenfield ordered the opening of exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the ground at 14:52 BST, eight minutes before kick off, after the area outside the turnstiles became dangerously overcrowded

More than 2,000 fans entered through exit gate C once it was opened and many headed for the tunnel ahead of them, which led to the central pens where the crush happened.

Prosecutors alleged Mr Duckenfield had "ultimate responsibility" at the ground and should have made "key lifesaving decisions" on the day.


What the jury had to decide is whether Mr Duckenfield's actions on the day were 'reckless' and therefor culpable? It seems they were pretty much split down the middle on that


Personally, I think that whilst the Liverpool families want/need/deserve closure on the sad events of that day, to pin the deaths down to one individual rather than an amalgam of errors and misjudgements on the day smacks of more than a little scapegoatism

Although there is a term often used that says "the buck stops at the top", it could be argued that person was the Chief Constable at that time; the man who put the inexperienced (in football matches) Duckenfield in charge of the event

Duckenfield's defence argued the case against Mr Duckenfield was "breathtakingly unfair" and said he had "tried to do the right thing" and given that none of us was there, who are we to say he didn't?

Notwithstanding the 96 innocent individuals who lost their lives on that sad day, a question that has always remained unanswered is how where there more Liverpool supporters outside than had tickets for the game?

Pointers that this was the case is described in reports that state "The gates were opened to avoid a crush and fans poured into an already full Leppings Lane End"

And let's not forget the influence of pitch-side fences at that time; or the reasons they were there...!

Should be interesting to see reaction if mackrell is fined as law says?

Allan, I'm sure a fine is the only way they can go on the charge that was proven but (so far as I can see) David Duckenfield is the head they want on the proverbial stick when there are so many others who failed in their duties both on that day and before it!

I just had a look and quote (Liverpool Echo): "The 69-year-old was found guilty of a health and safety breach linked to turnstile arrangements for Liverpool fans with terrace tickets on the day. The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine."

This whole saga is an interesting, if not unfortunate one and some good responses above


It seems that Graham Mackrell was was charged for "breaching the legal duty under the 1974 Health and Safety Act to take reasonable care at work for people’s safety" and convicted on legislation that existed at the time of the sad event

The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine (not imprisonment)


Something I find that needs answers is that Mackrell (Wednesday’s safety officer at the time of the 1989 disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died) is latterly a football administrator for the League Managers Association (LMA) and runs its integrity programme

To date, the LMA has refused to comment on the position


David Duckenfield, as we know, was the designated Match Commander for South Yorkshire Police on the day of the fateful game and was charged on a criminal charge of "gross negligence manslaughter"

In consultation with and acting on the advice of fellow officers on the ground, the trial heard Mr Duckenfield ordered the opening of exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the ground at 14:52 BST, eight minutes before kick off, after the area outside the turnstiles became dangerously overcrowded

More than 2,000 fans entered through exit gate C once it was opened and many headed for the tunnel ahead of them, which led to the central pens where the crush happened.

Prosecutors alleged Mr Duckenfield had "ultimate responsibility" at the ground and should have made "key lifesaving decisions" on the day.


What the jury had to decide is whether Mr Duckenfield's actions on the day were 'reckless' and therefor culpable? It seems they were pretty much split down the middle on that


Personally, I think that whilst the Liverpool families want/need/deserve closure on the sad events of that day, to pin the deaths down to one individual rather than an amalgam of errors and misjudgements on the day smacks of more than a little scapegoatism

Although there is a term often used that says "the buck stops at the top", it could be argued that person was the Chief Constable at that time; the man who put the inexperienced (in football matches) Duckenfield in charge of the event

Duckenfield's defence argued the case against Mr Duckenfield was "breathtakingly unfair" and said he had "tried to do the right thing" and given that none of us was there, who are we to say he didn't?

Notwithstanding the 96 innocent individuals who lost their lives on that sad day, a question that has always remained unanswered is how where there more Liverpool supporters outside than had tickets for the game?

Pointers that this was the case is described in reports that state "The gates were opened to avoid a crush and fans poured into an already full Leppings Lane End"

And let's not forget the influence of pitch-side fences at that time; or the reasons they were there...!

Should be interesting to see reaction if mackrell is fined as law says?

Allan, I'm sure a fine is the only way they can go on the charge that was proven but (so far as I can see) David Duckenfield is the head they want on the proverbial stick when there are so many others who failed in their duties both on that day and before it!

I just had a look and quote (Liverpool Echo): "The 69-year-old was found guilty of a health and safety breach linked to turnstile arrangements for Liverpool fans with terrace tickets on the day. The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine."

Agree about dunkensfield but what happens if he's found not guilty?

This whole saga is an interesting, if not unfortunate one and some good responses above


It seems that Graham Mackrell was was charged for "breaching the legal duty under the 1974 Health and Safety Act to take reasonable care at work for people’s safety" and convicted on legislation that existed at the time of the sad event

The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine (not imprisonment)


Something I find that needs answers is that Mackrell (Wednesday’s safety officer at the time of the 1989 disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died) is latterly a football administrator for the League Managers Association (LMA) and runs its integrity programme

To date, the LMA has refused to comment on the position


David Duckenfield, as we know, was the designated Match Commander for South Yorkshire Police on the day of the fateful game and was charged on a criminal charge of "gross negligence manslaughter"

In consultation with and acting on the advice of fellow officers on the ground, the trial heard Mr Duckenfield ordered the opening of exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the ground at 14:52 BST, eight minutes before kick off, after the area outside the turnstiles became dangerously overcrowded

More than 2,000 fans entered through exit gate C once it was opened and many headed for the tunnel ahead of them, which led to the central pens where the crush happened.

Prosecutors alleged Mr Duckenfield had "ultimate responsibility" at the ground and should have made "key lifesaving decisions" on the day.


What the jury had to decide is whether Mr Duckenfield's actions on the day were 'reckless' and therefor culpable? It seems they were pretty much split down the middle on that


Personally, I think that whilst the Liverpool families want/need/deserve closure on the sad events of that day, to pin the deaths down to one individual rather than an amalgam of errors and misjudgements on the day smacks of more than a little scapegoatism

Although there is a term often used that says "the buck stops at the top", it could be argued that person was the Chief Constable at that time; the man who put the inexperienced (in football matches) Duckenfield in charge of the event

Duckenfield's defence argued the case against Mr Duckenfield was "breathtakingly unfair" and said he had "tried to do the right thing" and given that none of us was there, who are we to say he didn't?

Notwithstanding the 96 innocent individuals who lost their lives on that sad day, a question that has always remained unanswered is how where there more Liverpool supporters outside than had tickets for the game?

Pointers that this was the case is described in reports that state "The gates were opened to avoid a crush and fans poured into an already full Leppings Lane End"

And let's not forget the influence of pitch-side fences at that time; or the reasons they were there...!

Should be interesting to see reaction if mackrell is fined as law says?

Allan, I'm sure a fine is the only way they can go on the charge that was proven but (so far as I can see) David Duckenfield is the head they want on the proverbial stick when there are so many others who failed in their duties both on that day and before it!

I just had a look and quote (Liverpool Echo): "The 69-year-old was found guilty of a health and safety breach linked to turnstile arrangements for Liverpool fans with terrace tickets on the day. The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine."

Agree about dunkensfield but what happens if he's found not guilty?

Sadly, the search for said 'scapegoat' will continue; but either way, Duckenfield is stained for life regardless of being found guilty or not guilty at any point in the future

This whole saga is an interesting, if not unfortunate one and some good responses above


It seems that Graham Mackrell was was charged for "breaching the legal duty under the 1974 Health and Safety Act to take reasonable care at work for people’s safety" and convicted on legislation that existed at the time of the sad event

The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine (not imprisonment)


Something I find that needs answers is that Mackrell (Wednesday’s safety officer at the time of the 1989 disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died) is latterly a football administrator for the League Managers Association (LMA) and runs its integrity programme

To date, the LMA has refused to comment on the position


David Duckenfield, as we know, was the designated Match Commander for South Yorkshire Police on the day of the fateful game and was charged on a criminal charge of "gross negligence manslaughter"

In consultation with and acting on the advice of fellow officers on the ground, the trial heard Mr Duckenfield ordered the opening of exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the ground at 14:52 BST, eight minutes before kick off, after the area outside the turnstiles became dangerously overcrowded

More than 2,000 fans entered through exit gate C once it was opened and many headed for the tunnel ahead of them, which led to the central pens where the crush happened.

Prosecutors alleged Mr Duckenfield had "ultimate responsibility" at the ground and should have made "key lifesaving decisions" on the day.


What the jury had to decide is whether Mr Duckenfield's actions on the day were 'reckless' and therefor culpable? It seems they were pretty much split down the middle on that


Personally, I think that whilst the Liverpool families want/need/deserve closure on the sad events of that day, to pin the deaths down to one individual rather than an amalgam of errors and misjudgements on the day smacks of more than a little scapegoatism

Although there is a term often used that says "the buck stops at the top", it could be argued that person was the Chief Constable at that time; the man who put the inexperienced (in football matches) Duckenfield in charge of the event

Duckenfield's defence argued the case against Mr Duckenfield was "breathtakingly unfair" and said he had "tried to do the right thing" and given that none of us was there, who are we to say he didn't?

Notwithstanding the 96 innocent individuals who lost their lives on that sad day, a question that has always remained unanswered is how where there more Liverpool supporters outside than had tickets for the game?

Pointers that this was the case is described in reports that state "The gates were opened to avoid a crush and fans poured into an already full Leppings Lane End"

And let's not forget the influence of pitch-side fences at that time; or the reasons they were there...!

Should be interesting to see reaction if mackrell is fined as law says?

Allan, I'm sure a fine is the only way they can go on the charge that was proven but (so far as I can see) David Duckenfield is the head they want on the proverbial stick when there are so many others who failed in their duties both on that day and before it!

I just had a look and quote (Liverpool Echo): "The 69-year-old was found guilty of a health and safety breach linked to turnstile arrangements for Liverpool fans with terrace tickets on the day. The offence, which falls under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act, is punishable by fine."

Agree about dunkensfield but what happens if he's found not guilty?

Sadly, the search for said 'scapegoat' will continue; but either way, Duckenfield is stained for life regardless of being found guilty or not guilty at any point in the future

Not sure he cares now hes in his late 70s probably wants it over with

South Yorkshire Police should be found guilty not Duckenfield as he had no or very little experience as a match commander. He should have been working alongside the guy who had been in charge of these type of games many times, until he was ready to take over on his own. Very few people involved in this tragedy, come out of this with any credit.

South Yorkshire Police should be found guilty not Duckenfield as he had no or very little experience as a match commander. He should have been working alongside the guy who had been in charge of these type of games many times, until he was ready to take over on his own. Very few people involved in this tragedy, come out of this with any credit.

not sure how experienced anyone could be mate..these neutral ground games were not everyday events and my experience was it was more luck than judgement it had not happened before at Hillsborough with a different match commander...

I don't think anyone should be found guilty , it was a time when pple scaled walls, pushed open gates, went through turnstyles 2 at a time and clubs put dodgy attendance figures in..

it was known perimeter fencing was a danger.
there had been crushes previously including the spurs/wolves semi at the same ground
and crushes with large amounts of injured, even 33 dead at bolton..
and all the authorities from the PM the FA the POLICE and clubs even us fans accepted the risk.

Hillsborough in those days, was used quite often as a venue for FA cup semi finals, league cup semis aswell. The guy who was there before, had been in post a good few years and I agree, it may not have changed anything, but I think the previous match commander may have had a better chance of dealing with this as I think this was Duckenfield’s first big game in charge.

Hillsborough in those days, was used quite often as a venue for FA cup semi finals, league cup semis aswell. The guy who was there before, had been in post a good few years and I agree, it may not have changed anything, but I think the previous match commander may have had a better chance of dealing with this as I think this was Duckenfield’s first big game in charge.

don't think it was ever used as a league cup semi final venue as they have always been midweek over 2 legs.
and the fa cup, Hillsborough had held only 1 semifinal in the 7 seasons prior to the disaster..
I have read the inexperience thing a few times. but nobody has ever come out and said who exactly had all this experience and maybe could have avoided it..

8 seasons prior, spurs had played wolves there under a different match comander..the problems were there then just not quite as bad. no deaths but hundreds having to climb fences to escape being crushed and plenty of accounts of how terrifying it was in that end.
when near disaster happens and ALL the authorities do nothing its a bit much then blaming one person in any way when it happens again 8 years on and all the original problems still exist.

it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid..

I bow to your superior knowledge about the league cup semi finals, but as an ex member of the emergency services, senior officers having experience gives confidence to those working under their command. Chief Super Brian Mole, was the divisional commander, replaced 19 days before the tragedy happened, and even Duckenfield has admitted, he was probably the wrong man for the job at that time. He was expecting to work with Mole prior to the game or as the said at the inquest, he should have shadowed, Mole, on that day, before being put in chardge of matches for the future. This is is why, I think South Yorks Police should have been prosecuted and not an individual.

Hillsborough in those days, was used quite often as a venue for FA cup semi finals, league cup semis aswell. The guy who was there before, had been in post a good few years and I agree, it may not have changed anything, but I think the previous match commander may have had a better chance of dealing with this as I think this was Duckenfield’s first big game in charge.

don't think it was ever used as a league cup semi final venue as they have always been midweek over 2 legs.
and the fa cup, Hillsborough had held only 1 semifinal in the 7 seasons prior to the disaster..
I have read the inexperience thing a few times. but nobody has ever come out and said who exactly had all this experience and maybe could have avoided it..

8 seasons prior, spurs had played wolves there under a different match comander..the problems were there then just not quite as bad. no deaths but hundreds having to climb fences to escape being crushed and plenty of accounts of how terrifying it was in that end.
when near disaster happens and ALL the authorities do nothing its a bit much then blaming one person in any way when it happens again 8 years on and all the original problems still exist.

it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid..

Some good comments above but I am drawn to this quote from you: "it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid.."

And whose fault was that?

A lot of 80's 'lads' got a lot to answer for for their part in creating the conditions that led to those sad events and is one of the biggest anomalies in football is when some people 'reminisce' that particular element of football and still see the violence and pitch-battles as 'The good old days'

Hillsborough in those days, was used quite often as a venue for FA cup semi finals, league cup semis aswell. The guy who was there before, had been in post a good few years and I agree, it may not have changed anything, but I think the previous match commander may have had a better chance of dealing with this as I think this was Duckenfield’s first big game in charge.

don't think it was ever used as a league cup semi final venue as they have always been midweek over 2 legs.
and the fa cup, Hillsborough had held only 1 semifinal in the 7 seasons prior to the disaster..
I have read the inexperience thing a few times. but nobody has ever come out and said who exactly had all this experience and maybe could have avoided it..

8 seasons prior, spurs had played wolves there under a different match comander..the problems were there then just not quite as bad. no deaths but hundreds having to climb fences to escape being crushed and plenty of accounts of how terrifying it was in that end.
when near disaster happens and ALL the authorities do nothing its a bit much then blaming one person in any way when it happens again 8 years on and all the original problems still exist.

it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid..

Some good comments above but I am drawn to this quote from you: "it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid.."

And whose fault was that?

A lot of 80's 'lads' got a lot to answer for for their part in creating the conditions that led to those sad events and is one of the biggest anomalies in football is when some people 'reminisce' that particular element of football and still see the violence and pitch-battles as 'The good old days'

you are correct, i refer you to the last line of my first post on this thread..
i was actually working in london when spurs played wolves up there, 4 of us went to sheffield on a special train { 3 randoms including myself and 1 spurs fan } for the craic..he { spurs fan } went to game and we stayed in the pub...all the talk on the return jouney was about crushing and danger but most reports on the game concentrated on the half time charge across the pitch..so it was a bit of both, lots of young men travelling the country looking for excitement and the press ingnoring any real problems in favour of the { popular at the time } sensationalising and looking for trouble to report on..

I bow to your superior knowledge about the league cup semi finals, but as an ex member of the emergency services, senior officers having experience gives confidence to those working under their command. Chief Super Brian Mole, was the divisional commander, replaced 19 days before the tragedy happened, and even Duckenfield has admitted, he was probably the wrong man for the job at that time. He was expecting to work with Mole prior to the game or as the said at the inquest, he should have shadowed, Mole, on that day, before being put in chardge of matches for the future. This is is why, I think South Yorks Police should have been prosecuted and not an individual.

it wasn't the best decision in the world I agree.
but there was so much wrong that the police were not responsible for that day I just don't see the blame..
no idea of your age but i had been going to games that had been overcrowded for 20 years when the disaster happened..seen walls colapse ,people crying crushed against barriers , people taken to st johns ambulance huts having passed out and generally stadia not fit to hold the capacities on the safety certificates..

the fact that Liverpool fans have been cleared of any blame blows my mind..

it would do if it was being claimed they were totally to blame also.
I just hate the....someone must be to blame culture in circumstances where its clear much was wrong and many turned blind eyes.
its very harsh but something like that needed to happen for football to be what it is today

Hillsborough in those days, was used quite often as a venue for FA cup semi finals, league cup semis aswell. The guy who was there before, had been in post a good few years and I agree, it may not have changed anything, but I think the previous match commander may have had a better chance of dealing with this as I think this was Duckenfield’s first big game in charge.

don't think it was ever used as a league cup semi final venue as they have always been midweek over 2 legs.
and the fa cup, Hillsborough had held only 1 semifinal in the 7 seasons prior to the disaster..
I have read the inexperience thing a few times. but nobody has ever come out and said who exactly had all this experience and maybe could have avoided it..

8 seasons prior, spurs had played wolves there under a different match comander..the problems were there then just not quite as bad. no deaths but hundreds having to climb fences to escape being crushed and plenty of accounts of how terrifying it was in that end.
when near disaster happens and ALL the authorities do nothing its a bit much then blaming one person in any way when it happens again 8 years on and all the original problems still exist.

it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid..

Some good comments above but I am drawn to this quote from you: "it was a time when stopping hooliganism trumped safety im afraid.."

And whose fault was that?

A lot of 80's 'lads' got a lot to answer for for their part in creating the conditions that led to those sad events and is one of the biggest anomalies in football is when some people 'reminisce' that particular element of football and still see the violence and pitch-battles as 'The good old days'

you are correct, i refer you to the last line of my first post on this thread..
i was actually working in london when spurs played wolves up there, 4 of us went to sheffield on a special train { 3 randoms including myself and 1 spurs fan } for the craic..he { spurs fan } went to game and we stayed in the pub...all the talk on the return jouney was about crushing and danger but most reports on the game concentrated on the half time charge across the pitch..so it was a bit of both, lots of young men travelling the country looking for excitement and the press ingnoring any real problems in favour of the { popular at the time } sensationalising and looking for trouble to report on..

Yes, I just looked and appreciate that

Again, some good points (above) and appreciate the 'looking for excitement' comment; although I still point to it directly as too many 'lads' being out to deliberately find/cause trouble

Your point (quote) "the fact that Liverpool fans have been cleared of any blame blows my mind.." is one I completely concur with and can only assume it is less hassle for the authorities to apportion blame to some (and certainly not the majority) of Liverpool attendees on the day

Dogfound, I’m 59 at the end of this month, I can’t say I’ve seen as many dangerous occasions as you but I’ve certainly been lifted off my feet ,due to the movement of the crowd. I totally agree, with you, that this tragedy had made football safer for us all in stadiums today.