Sala pilot David Ibbotson 'not qualified to fly at night'

BBC News are reporting this.


Saturday 30th March 2019


The pilot of the plane which crashed into the English Channel with Emiliano Sala on board, was not qualified to fly at night, BBC Wales understands.

David Ibbotson is thought to have been colour-blind, which prevents pilots from flying at night.

Footballer Sala, 28, died when the plane carrying him from Nantes to Cardiff crashed late on 21 January.

The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said it would not comment until the AAIB investigation was complete.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AIIB) said licensing "continues to be a focus" of its investigations.

Regulatory authorities have confirmed that Mr Ibbotson, from Crowle, North Lincolnshire, did not hold a "night rating" on his UK private pilot's licence, the BBC understands.

If true the monitoring system for the aviation sector needs a complete overhaul. Seems licenses mean nothing as they are not checked.

Now being reported across all media outlets.

And persons wonder why we are with holding payment at this time

So, the blame lies with whoever organised the flight then? I guess that lovely Scottish agent is in a spot of bother now, although I bet he will say the flight was supposed to go in daylight, so it’s Sala’s fault? Basically, it shouldn’t have gine ahead if it couldn’t go in daylight. There was bad weather that day too, snow and gales in parts. No way should that flight on that plane taken off.

So whoever arranged this flight is banged to rights.

So, the blame lies with whoever organised the flight then? I guess that lovely Scottish agent is in a spot of bother now, although I bet he will say the flight was supposed to go in daylight, so it’s Sala’s fault? Basically, it shouldn’t have gine ahead if it couldn’t go in daylight. There was bad weather that day too, snow and gales in parts. No way should that flight on that plane taken off.

Did city know ameliano ask to change flight to eve because wanted more time at home?
If so surely they could have said no come in morning ! After all was no rush wuth 9 days to bext game.. having said that why did pilot agree to fly when he knew he couldn't? More questions with answers that may not be answered

So, the blame lies with whoever organised the flight then? I guess that lovely Scottish agent is in a spot of bother now, although I bet he will say the flight was supposed to go in daylight, so it’s Sala’s fault? Basically, it shouldn’t have gine ahead if it couldn’t go in daylight. There was bad weather that day too, snow and gales in parts. No way should that flight on that plane taken off.

Did city know ameliano ask to change flight to eve because wanted more time at home?
If so surely they could have said no come in morning ! After all was no rush wuth 9 days to bext game.. having said that why did pilot agree to fly when he knew he couldn't? More questions with answers that may not be answered

Very fishy, remember when the news broke about the pilot?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=204253&p=2106839#p2106839

So, the blame lies with whoever organised the flight then? I guess that lovely Scottish agent is in a spot of bother now, although I bet he will say the flight was supposed to go in daylight, so it’s Sala’s fault? Basically, it shouldn’t have gine ahead if it couldn’t go in daylight. There was bad weather that day too, snow and gales in parts. No way should that flight on that plane taken off.

Did city know ameliano ask to change flight to eve because wanted more time at home?
If so surely they could have said no come in morning ! After all was no rush wuth 9 days to bext game.. having said that why did pilot agree to fly when he knew he couldn't? More questions with answers that may not be answered

££££££'s Allan £££££££'s.

Any insurance regarding the flight etc would then be void.

The Agent (McKay) who organised this should be brought in for questioning .

Any insurance regarding the flight etc would then be void.

The Agent (McKay) who organised this should be brought in for questioning .

It is hard to see how WM won't be questioned over his involvement.

Did city know ameliano ask to change flight to eve because wanted more time at home?
If so surely they could have said no come in morning ! After all was no rush wuth 9 days to bext game.. having said that why did pilot agree to fly when he knew he couldn't? More questions with answers that may not be answered

The only way the club could take some of the blame would be in the circumstance where they knew ES had decided to fly at night using an unqualified pilot.

Any insurance regarding the flight etc would then be void.

The Agent (McKay) who organised this should be brought in for questioning .

I don't think there is anything 'new' in this report but it certainly confirms what was suspected previously, i.e. that the flight was carried out illegally

There will be a couple of squeaky bums sat in some pretty warm seats right now and I would imagine both the apparent mute, David Henderson, as well as Fake Agent (some may call him 'Facilitator') McKay will be at the front of the bus

Notwithstanding Cardiff City's own responsibilities in all of this, mainly financially it seems, this is a big event in what resulted in a sad loss of life and points to others 'knowing' about the illegal flights, a deliberate flouting of the rules (no one has yet explained the apparent 'logging' of Henderson's name on the airport pilot's sheet) and human error from an inexperienced pilot in the environment in which he agreed to operate

I thought this was common knowledge within hours of him being named as the pilot. It was already known that he wasn't certified to fly by instruments and had to rely on sight.

It shouldn't negate Cardiff's insurance cover providing they were unaware of these arrangements. The fact that we separately made use of this operator / arrangement muddies that water a little. Clearly we lacked diligence ourselves in previously using this operator, if indeed he regularly flew without the requisite licences. That could ultimately give Nantes a get out. They could say " they knew about the arrangements but as Cardiff City themselves made frequent use of this operator they thought everything was in order.

Henderson, the de facto operator is up the swanny without a paddle. McKay will bare responsibility and depending on what he knew of the operation, possibly criminal responsibility. As the payment for the flight would have effectively come as a freebie out of the Nantes payment to the agent, then Nantes unwittingly absorb responsibility, mitigated by the above. Its for the lawyers rather than us speculating football fans.

I thought this was common knowledge within hours of him being named as the pilot. It was already known that he wasn't certified to fly by instruments and had to rely on sight.

It shouldn't negate Cardiff's insurance cover providing they were unaware of these arrangements. The fact that we separately made use of this operator / arrangement muddies that water a little. Clearly we lacked diligence ourselves in previously using this operator, if indeed he regularly flew without the requisite licences. That could ultimately give Nantes a get out. They could say " they knew about the arrangements but as Cardiff City themselves made frequent use of this operator they thought everything was in order.

Henderson, the de facto operator is up the swanny without a paddle. McKay will bare responsibility and depending on what he knew of the operation, possibly criminal responsibility. As the payment for the flight would have effectively come as a freebie out of the Nantes payment to the agent, then Nantes unwittingly absorb responsibility, mitigated by the above. Its for the lawyers rather than us speculating football fans.

I don't think Henderson's qualifications are in doubt (maybe his morals) but he didn't fly the plane, as he was apparently chartered to do, on the night of the tragedy. I guess what he told Agent McKay beforehand will have some bearing, too!

I think the big question in there may be "Did any of our flights involve Ibbotson as the pilot?" but even then, it depends on what club officials actually knew about the guy at the controls, which is unlikely to have been much more than "Hi, I'm Dave, your pilot...!"

Wanrock has said he thought Ibbotson had flown him before.

For me it seems Henderson was paid to do the flight and simply passed it on, I wonder if he took a cut. I bet McKay will delay all knowledge of ibberston.

Did city know ameliano ask to change flight to eve because wanted more time at home?
If so surely they could have said no come in morning ! After all was no rush wuth 9 days to bext game.. having said that why did pilot agree to fly when he knew he couldn't? More questions with answers that may not be answered

The only way the club could take some of the blame would be in the circumstance where they knew ES had decided to fly at night using an unqualified pilot.

Not blaming club just questioning if they new about change of time? Obviously they knew of eve flight as arranged to meet flight! Question is why let him fly at night when it was not urgent he returned for a game? Asked this question at time what was the rush to get him back?

I thought this was common knowledge within hours of him being named as the pilot. It was already known that he wasn't certified to fly by instruments and had to rely on sight.

It shouldn't negate Cardiff's insurance cover providing they were unaware of these arrangements. The fact that we separately made use of this operator / arrangement muddies that water a little. Clearly we lacked diligence ourselves in previously using this operator, if indeed he regularly flew without the requisite licences. That could ultimately give Nantes a get out. They could say " they knew about the arrangements but as Cardiff City themselves made frequent use of this operator they thought everything was in order.

Henderson, the de facto operator is up the swanny without a paddle. McKay will bare responsibility and depending on what he knew of the operation, possibly criminal responsibility. As the payment for the flight would have effectively come as a freebie out of the Nantes payment to the agent, then Nantes unwittingly absorb responsibility, mitigated by the above. Its for the lawyers rather than us speculating football fans.

I don't think Henderson's qualifications are in doubt (maybe his morals) but he didn't fly the plane, as he was apparently chartered to do, on the night of the tragedy. I guess what he told Agent McKay beforehand will have some bearing, too!

I think the big question in there may be "Did any of our flights involve Ibbotson as the pilot?" but even then, it depends on what club officials actually knew about the guy at the controls, which is unlikely to have been much more than "Hi, I'm Dave, your pilot...!"

Henderson's qualification are largely irrelevant but as the " operator " I think he would have had a legal duty to ensure that the pilot had all the necessary qualifications, licences and experience to undertake the tasks given to him. Whoever engaged Henderson whether the agent in this case or us if we dealt with him directly needs to be able to prove that they took due diligence in the selection of that operator.

That would certainly involve asking for and being provided with the operators insurance and licenses to function as an operator of commercial flights. Taking it into the workplace setting it could involve checking an individuals right to be there. Even a basic labourer cant walk onto most construction sites without evidence of his qualification to be there. It might seem mad but its now become an excepted workplace norm. Clearly that's not the individual getting onto the plane checking the details.

Sala pilot David Ibbotson 'not qualified to fly at night'


By Jenny Johnson & Kayley Thomas

BBC Wales News Focus


30 March 2019

The pilot of the plane which crashed into the English Channel with Emiliano Sala on board, was not qualified to fly at night, BBC Wales understands.


David Ibbotson is thought to have been colour-blind, and his licence restricted him to flying in daytime hours only.
Footballer Sala, 28, died when the plane carrying him from Nantes to Cardiff crashed late on 21 January.
The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said it could not comment.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) said licensing "continues to be a focus" of its investigations.
Regulatory authorities have confirmed that Mr Ibbotson, from Crowle, North Lincolnshire, did not hold a "night rating" on his UK private pilot's licence, the BBC.


His UK licence was mirrored by a US pilot's licence - enabling him to fly the US-registered Piper Malibu in Europe.
The public record of his Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) licence states Mr Ibbotson "must have available glasses for near vision" and that "all limitations and restrictions on the United Kingdom pilot licence apply".
There is no publicly available record of UK pilot licences, which are held by the CAA.
But sources have told BBC Wales that Mr Ibbotson's licence restricted him to "flights by day only".
Radar track mapImage copyrightAAIB/GOOGLE EARTH
Image caption
The final radar track record - given in the AAIB's interim report
An aviation source told BBC Wales that the ability to be able to differentiate between green and red lights is "key" to flying in the dark.
"Anything that's on the UK licence applies to the US licence as well, so he couldn't do anything more than the UK licence allows.
"Flying outside the restrictions of your licence is illegal and that's likely to affect the insurance cover for the flight."
Emiliano Sala plane crash: The story behind the transfer flights
Emiliano Sala plane crash: Call to investigate more flights
European aviation rules define night as "the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise".
Flight plans seen by BBC Wales indicate the flight scheduled to take Argentine player Sala for his first training session with Cardiff City had been due to leave Nantes airport at 09:00 local time on 21 January.
But the flight was postponed until 19:00, at the request of Sala, to allow him to spend the day saying goodbye to his Nantes teammates.
By the time Mr Ibbotson taxied a Piper Malibu plane on to the runway ready for take-off shortly after 19:00, it would have been around an hour and 10 minutes since sunset.
Air accident investigators' photo showing the rear left side of the fuselageImage copyrightAAIB/PA
Image caption
Air accident investigators' photo showing the rear left side of the fuselage on the seabed
Speculation about the legality of the flight has so far centred around the question of whether it complied with restrictions concerning private pilots flying passengers in Europe in a US-registered aircraft.
As a private pilot, 59-year-old Mr Ibbotson was not allowed to carry passengers for remuneration or financial reward.
A preliminary report from the AIIB, released in February, stated he could only fly passengers on a cost-share basis.
As the aircraft was US-registered, pilot and passenger must have a "common purpose" for making the journey, and the pilot must dictate when a flight leaves.
The report adds that the flight "must not be made for the purpose of merely transporting the passenger".
Piper Malibu aircraft, N264DB, at Nantes before the fatal flightImage copyrightPA/AAIB
Image caption
Piper Malibu aircraft, N264DB, at Nantes before the fatal flight
In an interview in February, football agent Willie McKay, who commissioned the flight, told the BBC that he and his family paid for the flight.
He was not involved, he said, in selecting the plane or the pilot and it was not a cost-share arrangement.
The plane disappeared off radar north of Guernsey in the Channel Islands at 20:16.
Sala's body was recovered from the wreckage of the plane in early February but Mr Ibbotson's body has not been found.
Sala posing with a Cardiff City shirt on 20 JanuaryImage copyrightAFP
Image caption
Sala posing with a Cardiff City shirt on 20 January, the day before the fatal flight
The European Aviation Safety Agency (Easa) states that to obtain a night rating, a pilot must undergo five hours of theory and five hours of flight training.
In their preliminary report, the AAIB said that because Mr Ibbotson's pilot licence and log book had been lost in the crash, it had not yet been able to establish what ratings he held or how many hours he had flown recently - although it was known he had completed approximately 3,700 flying hours.
Investigators would normally look to establish how many hours a pilot had flown in the last 28 and 90 days before a crash.
The AAIB is expected to publish its full report into the tragedy early in 2020.
BBC Wales News Focus can be contacted by emailing: news.focus.team@bbc.co.uk
Related Topics
NantesAir Accidents Investigation

Any insurance regarding the flight etc would then be void.

The Agent (McKay) who organised this should be brought in for questioning .

It is hard to see how WM won't be questioned over his involvement.

Tony, I honestly think it should even be a police enquiry on WM.

This will definately affect the flight insurance !! It will probably become void !

Ironic how Cardiff city fc are getting grief from all sides, mainly bitter jacks granted but really between the dodgy agent, Sala himself effing about allday resulting in a night flight, Henderson pulling out and putt8ng a blind man in charge it really begs belief that we should foot any bill.

This will definately affect the flight insurance !! It will probably become void !

What happens if the insurance is void then who will have to pay the transfer fee for sala ?
You can see why the club is keeping quiet on this they are waiting for the full investigation in to this.

I thought this was common knowledge within hours of him being named as the pilot. It was already known that he wasn't certified to fly by instruments and had to rely on sight.

It shouldn't negate Cardiff's insurance cover providing they were unaware of these arrangements. The fact that we separately made use of this operator / arrangement muddies that water a little. Clearly we lacked diligence ourselves in previously using this operator, if indeed he regularly flew without the requisite licences. That could ultimately give Nantes a get out. They could say " they knew about the arrangements but as Cardiff City themselves made frequent use of this operator they thought everything was in order.

Henderson, the de facto operator is up the swanny without a paddle. McKay will bare responsibility and depending on what he knew of the operation, possibly criminal responsibility. As the payment for the flight would have effectively come as a freebie out of the Nantes payment to the agent, then Nantes unwittingly absorb responsibility, mitigated by the above. Its for the lawyers rather than us speculating football fans.

I don't think Henderson's qualifications are in doubt (maybe his morals) but he didn't fly the plane, as he was apparently chartered to do, on the night of the tragedy. I guess what he told Agent McKay beforehand will have some bearing, too!

I think the big question in there may be "Did any of our flights involve Ibbotson as the pilot?" but even then, it depends on what club officials actually knew about the guy at the controls, which is unlikely to have been much more than "Hi, I'm Dave, your pilot...!"

Henderson's qualification are largely irrelevant but as the " operator " I think he would have had a legal duty to ensure that the pilot had all the necessary qualifications, licences and experience to undertake the tasks given to him. Whoever engaged Henderson whether the agent in this case or us if we dealt with him directly needs to be able to prove that they took due diligence in the selection of that operator.

That would certainly involve asking for and being provided with the operators insurance and licenses to function as an operator of commercial flights. Taking it into the workplace setting it could involve checking an individuals right to be there. Even a basic labourer cant walk onto most construction sites without evidence of his qualification to be there. It might seem mad but its now become an excepted workplace norm. Clearly that's not the individual getting onto the plane checking the details.

They (Henderson's qualifications/licences) are very much of relevance, if he was believed to be the original pilot and his name was attached to the flight via the airport log. Why would he do that and not fly, if not for nefarious reasons?

I'm sure it goes on elsewhere but once the HSE get involved (or the AAIB in this case) they will leave no stone unturned in their efforts to find the truth and apportion blame, where it is found

talk is henderson has been raided by the police and he is effectively the owner of the plane also one of his companies connected to the plane is flying illegally type taxi fairs ,i think the club is right to hold out ,the club were not paying Mackay's cut nantes were hence the rummoured claims of negligence

Wanrock has said he thought Ibbotson had flown him before.

For me it seems Henderson was paid to do the flight and simply passed it on, I wonder if he took a cut. I bet McKay will delay all knowledge of ibberston.

Where has he said that mate? I'd rather Warnock said nothing. Surely he cant 'think' Ibbotson had flewn him before, you would know wouldn't you surely?

Wanrock has said he thought Ibbotson had flown him before.

For me it seems Henderson was paid to do the flight and simply passed it on, I wonder if he took a cut. I bet McKay will delay all knowledge of ibberston.

Where has he said that mate? I'd rather Warnock said nothing. Surely he cant 'think' Ibbotson had flewn him before, you would know wouldn't you surely?

It was in his first press conference after the crash which I think was about a week after the accident. I'm pretty sure he said something like he seemed a good pilot or something to that effect.

Isn't all of this already known? Have no idea why BBC reporting this as news.

Wanrock has said he thought Ibbotson had flown him before.

For me it seems Henderson was paid to do the flight and simply passed it on, I wonder if he took a cut. I bet McKay will delay all knowledge of ibberston.

Where has he said that mate? I'd rather Warnock said nothing. Surely he cant 'think' Ibbotson had flewn him before, you would know wouldn't you surely?

It was in his first press conference after the crash which I think was about a week after the accident. I'm pretty sure he said something like he seemed a good pilot or something to that effect.

yes your correct...

Isn't all of this already known? Have no idea why BBC reporting this as news.

yes it is all known.
and don't see how it effects who owes who what, at all.

Any insurance regarding the flight etc would then be void.

The Agent (McKay) who organised this should be brought in for questioning .

I don't think there is anything 'new' in this report but it certainly confirms what was suspected previously, i.e. that the flight was carried out illegally

There will be a couple of squeaky bums sat in some pretty warm seats right now and I would imagine both the apparent mute, David Henderson, as well as Fake Agent (some may call him 'Facilitator') McKay will be at the front of the bus

Notwithstanding Cardiff City's own responsibilities in all of this, mainly financially it seems, this is a big event in what resulted in a sad loss of life and points to others 'knowing' about the illegal flights, a deliberate flouting of the rules (no one has yet explained the apparent 'logging' of Henderson's name on the airport pilot's sheet) and human error from an inexperienced pilot in the environment in which he agreed to operate

I have said before,my belief is Henderson put his name up on the genuine belief, if the flight landed safely,that it would have gone unnoticed, nobody would have to ask the questions, that will imo most certainly be asked sooner, rather than later the whole saga stinks of liars and cost cutting greedy bastards, that poor boy was duped by somebody,namely wm