UPDATED: Gatwick Drone Charade- get ready for the ban

Anyone who owns a drone should probably try and sell it quickly.
As you'll have seen, they're staging a big incident at an airport today to justify some bit of oppressive legislation they've obviously got in mind.
Obviously you could bring a drone down in about 30 seconds , but they're delaying flights and inconveniencing thousands of people to build the tension and credibility of their latest dramatic little stunt. How stupid do they think people are ?

What do we think - justification for some new snoopers charter, a ban on privately owned drones or are they just going to blame the Russians ?

Whatever it is, I expect they'll implicate Donald Trump somehow and also suggest that it was all connected to leaving the EU in some way.

Who can correctly guess the reason for it before they announce it on the BBC ?


See aso: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=202844

Problem - Reaction - Solution.

The legislation has been in the pipeline for months with the fact they can be used to smuggle drugs into prisons and disrupt flights for quite some time .

I think they plan that each drone user will be on a database and have to register in order to fly which is not that bad really .


Be easy enough to fly a drone laden with petrol or gas canisters into a plane .

Time to put the tinfoil hat/pipe down

The legislation has been in the pipeline for months with the fact they can be used to smuggle drugs into prisons and disrupt flights for quite some time .

I think they plan that each drone user will be on a database and have to register in order to fly which is not that bad really .


Be easy enough to fly a drone laden with petrol or gas canisters into a plane .

Time to put the tinfoil hat/pipe down

Well it wouldn't really because those things would be too heavy, but there I go examining the details of these things too closely instead of just trusting that they care about me.

Anyone who owns a drone should probably try and sell it quickly.
As you'll have seen, they're staging a big incident at an airport today to justify some bit of oppressive legislation they've obviously got in mind.
Obviously you could bring a drone down in about 30 seconds , but they're delaying flights and inconveniencing thousands of people to build the tension and credibility of their latest dramatic little stunt. How stupid do they think people are ?

What do we think - justification for some new snoopers charter, a ban on privately owned drones or are they just going to blame the Russians ?

Whatever it is, I expect they'll implicate Donald Trump somehow and also suggest that it was all connected to leaving the EU in some way.

Who can correctly guess the reason for it before they announce it on the BBC ?

The people are stupid that's the thing.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

How can they bring a drone down?

The legislation has been in the pipeline for months with the fact they can be used to smuggle drugs into prisons and disrupt flights for quite some time .

I think they plan that each drone user will be on a database and have to register in order to fly which is not that bad really .


Be easy enough to fly a drone laden with petrol or gas canisters into a plane .

Time to put the tinfoil hat/pipe down

Well it wouldn't really because those things would be too heavy, but there I go examining the details of these things too closely instead of just trusting that they care about me.

Drones can carry semtex which us light enough
To blow up plane if required. .maybe simple solution at moment is to ask
People to drone spot offer reward 20k sure won't be long before the morons are cought . Also sentence should be minimum 10yrs not max 5 at moment. Hopefully sorted by week sat so can use Gatwick to get home.

Not that I'm being cynical in any way but it's knocked Brexit off the top of the headlines.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

Guns are banned, but still plenty around. Those who abide by the laws are not the problem. Ban whatever you like, but the irresponsible people will not pay any attention, and laws are already in place to stop this sort of event. Those who ignore the law today will still ignore it tomorrow, irrespective of whatever new measures are introduced. As is normally the case, only the law abiding public will be affected.

The legislation has been in the pipeline for months with the fact they can be used to smuggle drugs into prisons and disrupt flights for quite some time .

I think they plan that each drone user will be on a database and have to register in order to fly which is not that bad really .


Be easy enough to fly a drone laden with petrol or gas canisters into a plane .

Time to put the tinfoil hat/pipe down

Well it wouldn't really because those things would be too heavy, but there I go examining the details of these things too closely instead of just trusting that they care about me.[/quote


Drones can carry semtex which us light enough
To blow up plane if required. .maybe simple solution at moment is to ask
People to drone spot offer reward 20k sure won't be long before the morons are cought . Also sentence should be minimum 10yrs not max 5 at moment. Hopefully sorted by week sat so can use Gatwick to get home.

I don't know whether you'd get enough Semtex plus a detonator attached to a civilian drone of the type private individuals can buy. Not precisely my field, but there are numerous other things to consider. You'd have to at least match the speed of the aircraft for a start, and again I'm pretty certain a civilian drone can't approach that. There are certainly methods of attempting such a crime which would be far more likely to succeed.
How much velocity do you need to penetrate the skin of an aircraft moving at that speed? If you didn't do that then any detonation would be harmless. I'm not going to start describing what's necessary to do that for obvious reasons but I don't think any of them could utilise a small civilian drone . Similarly, they weigh less than many birds which the aircraft is likely to strike without any serious problem

I've personally repaired damage caused by a bird strike, they can cause engine failures and have done as I'm sure you know, they're just flesh and blood and don't contain metal and batteries which could cause an explosion very easy should they puncture a wing

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

How can they bring a drone down?

Thought hard how I could answer that,( I'd have simply ignored it from anyone else ), but here's a publicly available link

https://www.droneshield.com/

https://www.droneshield.com/dronecannonrw/

I've personally repaired damage caused by a bird strike, they can cause engine failures and have done as I'm sure you know, they're just flesh and blood and don't contain metal and batteries which could cause an explosion very easy should they puncture a wing

Yeas of course bird strikes are a danger to aircraft, and sometimes they can even cause the loss of an aircraft, but I think the vast majority of them do no harm (except to the bird of course) . Again, I'm not an aeronautics expert, but I think those incidents which do cause significant damage come about when the bird is travelling at a particular velocity in a contrary path to the mass of the aircraft itself, or by chance not only get into an engine or turbine ,but somehow manage to do so in a way which jams up the works .
These civilian drones are extremely light things constructed of very light breakable materials which wouldn't reach the speed to accrue any velocity capable of causing catostrophic damage, or be strong enough to damage metal. Of course, there's no such thing as an absolute certainty and I expect that some freak incident is possible, but I'm guessing that it's much less likely than a large duck causing a problem . ( remember, Kevlar is ,or was, woven from birds feathers which when compacted are ballistic ally resistant- many will know that you can sometimes hit a duck or goose with a 12 gauge which would remove a man's head, but fails to penetrate the down and feathers).

Your point about the batteries is a good one on the face of it, but I'm thinking that they'd contain small coin like batteries rather than bigger ones for the purpose of reducing the weight which needs lifting . That's purely an educated guess in my part though, so you may be right.

All in all, they don't generally shut down airports because of the risk of bird strikes causing a crash, so I can't see that they'd sensibly do so for a couple of hobbyist drones which they could in any case bring down very quickly if they wanted to.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

How can they bring a drone down?

Thought hard how I could answer that,( I'd have simply ignored it from anyone else ), but here's a publicly available link

https://www.droneshield.com/

https://www.droneshield.com/dronecannonrw/

Just thought.... " How many Rock Apes does it take to ......"

I've personally repaired damage caused by a bird strike, they can cause engine failures and have done as I'm sure you know, they're just flesh and blood and don't contain metal and batteries which could cause an explosion very easy should they puncture a wing

Yeas of course bird strikes are a danger to aircraft, and sometimes they can even cause the loss of an aircraft, but I think the vast majority of them do no harm (except to the bird of course) . Again, I'm not an aeronautics expert, but I think those incidents which do cause significant damage come about when the bird is travelling at a particular velocity in a contrary path to the mass of the aircraft itself, or by chance not only get into an engine or turbine ,but somehow manage to do so in a way which jams up the works .
These civilian drones are extremely light things constructed of very light breakable materials which wouldn't reach the speed to accrue any velocity capable of causing catostrophic damage, or be strong enough to damage metal. Of course, there's no such thing as an absolute certainty and I expect that some freak incident is possible, but I'm guessing that it's much less likely than a large duck causing a problem . ( remember, Kevlar is ,or was, woven from birds feathers which when compacted are ballistic ally resistant- many will know that you can sometimes hit a duck or goose with a 12 gauge which would remove a man's head, but fails to penetrate the down and feathers).

Your point about the batteries is a good one on the face of it, but I'm thinking that they'd contain small coin like batteries rather than bigger ones for the purpose of reducing the weight which needs lifting . That's purely an educated guess in my part though, so you may be right.

All in all, they don't generally shut down airports because of the risk of bird strikes causing a crash, so I can't see that they'd sensibly do so for a couple of hobbyist drones which they could in any case bring down very quickly if they wanted to.

Apparently it's the batteries that are the danger as they are the heaviest part of a drone and being of a solid mass compared to other parts it is likely to be bit that damages aeroplane... did see a slow motion film earlier of a drone hitting a plane wing did lot damage.... and the drone reported is of commercial size so lot bigger than a Joe public one

Gatwick runway now reopened but with a somewhat limited service

Passengers from cancelled flights have been placed at the back of any queues whilst the CAA try to get some sort of normality to proceedings

Some passengers are being asked to chick-in before they are transported to other airports for departure

Currently no news on whether any arrests have been made in relation to the drones themselves

I've personally repaired damage caused by a bird strike, they can cause engine failures and have done as I'm sure you know, they're just flesh and blood and don't contain metal and batteries which could cause an explosion very easy should they puncture a wing

Yeas of course bird strikes are a danger to aircraft, and sometimes they can even cause the loss of an aircraft, but I think the vast majority of them do no harm (except to the bird of course) . Again, I'm not an aeronautics expert, but I think those incidents which do cause significant damage come about when the bird is travelling at a particular velocity in a contrary path to the mass of the aircraft itself, or by chance not only get into an engine or turbine ,but somehow manage to do so in a way which jams up the works .
These civilian drones are extremely light things constructed of very light breakable materials which wouldn't reach the speed to accrue any velocity capable of causing catostrophic damage, or be strong enough to damage metal. Of course, there's no such thing as an absolute certainty and I expect that some freak incident is possible, but I'm guessing that it's much less likely than a large duck causing a problem . ( remember, Kevlar is ,or was, woven from birds feathers which when compacted are ballistic ally resistant- many will know that you can sometimes hit a duck or goose with a 12 gauge which would remove a man's head, but fails to penetrate the down and feathers).

Your point about the batteries is a good one on the face of it, but I'm thinking that they'd contain small coin like batteries rather than bigger ones for the purpose of reducing the weight which needs lifting . That's purely an educated guess in my part though, so you may be right.

All in all, they don't generally shut down airports because of the risk of bird strikes causing a crash, so I can't see that they'd sensibly do so for a couple of hobbyist drones which they could in any case bring down very quickly if they wanted to.

Apparently it's the batteries that are the danger as they are the heaviest part of a drone and being of a solid mass compared to other parts it is likely to be bit that damages aeroplane... did see a slow motion film earlier of a drone hitting a plane wing did lot damage.... and the drone reported is of commercial size so lot bigger than a Joe public one

Yeah I saw that Alan and my thought was that the two things looked out of proportion- either a massive drone or a very thin aircraft. I can certainly see that a military drone could be dangerous, but I think these are just the hobbyist type .

I've personally repaired damage caused by a bird strike, they can cause engine failures and have done as I'm sure you know, they're just flesh and blood and don't contain metal and batteries which could cause an explosion very easy should they puncture a wing

Yeas of course bird strikes are a danger to aircraft, and sometimes they can even cause the loss of an aircraft, but I think the vast majority of them do no harm (except to the bird of course) . Again, I'm not an aeronautics expert, but I think those incidents which do cause significant damage come about when the bird is travelling at a particular velocity in a contrary path to the mass of the aircraft itself, or by chance not only get into an engine or turbine ,but somehow manage to do so in a way which jams up the works .
These civilian drones are extremely light things constructed of very light breakable materials which wouldn't reach the speed to accrue any velocity capable of causing catostrophic damage, or be strong enough to damage metal. Of course, there's no such thing as an absolute certainty and I expect that some freak incident is possible, but I'm guessing that it's much less likely than a large duck causing a problem . ( remember, Kevlar is ,or was, woven from birds feathers which when compacted are ballistic ally resistant- many will know that you can sometimes hit a duck or goose with a 12 gauge which would remove a man's head, but fails to penetrate the down and feathers).

Your point about the batteries is a good one on the face of it, but I'm thinking that they'd contain small coin like batteries rather than bigger ones for the purpose of reducing the weight which needs lifting . That's purely an educated guess in my part though, so you may be right.

All in all, they don't generally shut down airports because of the risk of bird strikes causing a crash, so I can't see that they'd sensibly do so for a couple of hobbyist drones which they could in any case bring down very quickly if they wanted to.

Apparently it's the batteries that are the danger as they are the heaviest part of a drone and being of a solid mass compared to other parts it is likely to be bit that damages aeroplane... did see a slow motion film earlier of a drone hitting a plane wing did lot damage.... and the drone reported is of commercial size so lot bigger than a Joe public one

Hang on - perhaps I didn't read your post Alan. I'm sorry, are you saying that the offending object is a large drone as opposed to a small one ? Well of course that would put a different light on it, but if that's the case surely it should be easily visible to radar and other AA equipment ?

Im sure you seen the damage a small bird can do to a plane so even a small drone could cause problems especially when I guess they cant examine it up close to be sure it isn't concealing anything.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

How can they bring a drone down?

Thought hard how I could answer that,( I'd have simply ignored it from anyone else ), but here's a publicly available link

https://www.droneshield.com/

https://www.droneshield.com/dronecannonrw/

Clever people can get around drone shields.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

Guns are banned, but still plenty around. Those who abide by the laws are not the problem. Ban whatever you like, but the irresponsible people will not pay any attention, and laws are already in place to stop this sort of event. Those who ignore the law today will still ignore it tomorrow, irrespective of whatever new measures are introduced. As is normally the case, only the law abiding public will be affected.

Totally different.

Drones are flown by people, by mistake into the flight path of aircraft. It’s not necessarily the criminals who cause issues.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

Guns are banned, but still plenty around. Those who abide by the laws are not the problem. Ban whatever you like, but the irresponsible people will not pay any attention, and laws are already in place to stop this sort of event. Those who ignore the law today will still ignore it tomorrow, irrespective of whatever new measures are introduced. As is normally the case, only the law abiding public will be affected.

Totally different.

Drones are flown by people, by mistake into the flight path of aircraft. It’s not necessarily the criminals who cause issues.

No, but when it becomes law to register your drone or RC aircraft, those using them to smuggle drugs into prisons or as an aid to terrorism are not going to be rushing to register themselves. I think responsible people will be penalised, as those who operate through clubs have insurance in place, and I believe that the rules they have to adhere to do not permit them to fly within 1km of an airport. I am no expert in the field of RC flying, but I understood that any drone always had to be in the line of sight of the person flying it, or if that person is wearing those goggle things, someone else was required to stand next to them to act as a spotter. If for example a blanket ban was put in place, the irresponsible flyers would carry on regardless, while only those club members who already obey the regulations would be stopped.

I bought a drone only this week and have no intention of flying it near airports or urban areas, mainly for videos/photos of wildlife and animals on family farm, no harm in this surely.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

Guns are banned, but still plenty around. Those who abide by the laws are not the problem. Ban whatever you like, but the irresponsible people will not pay any attention, and laws are already in place to stop this sort of event. Those who ignore the law today will still ignore it tomorrow, irrespective of whatever new measures are introduced. As is normally the case, only the law abiding public will be affected.

Totally different.

Drones are flown by people, by mistake into the flight path of aircraft. It’s not necessarily the criminals who cause issues.

No, but when it becomes law to register your drone or RC aircraft, those using them to smuggle drugs into prisons or as an aid to terrorism are not going to be rushing to register themselves. I think responsible people will be penalised, as those who operate through clubs have insurance in place, and I believe that the rules they have to adhere to do not permit them to fly within 1km of an airport. I am no expert in the field of RC flying, but I understood that any drone always had to be in the line of sight of the person flying it, or if that person is wearing those goggle things, someone else was required to stand next to them to act as a spotter. If for example a blanket ban was put in place, the irresponsible flyers would carry on regardless, while only those club members who already obey the regulations would be stopped.

Before purchasing mine I did some research and believe you are not allowed for it to go more than 500 mtrs away from you, or out of sight, most only have a 800 mtr range anyway, also battery life is usually no more than 15 mins.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

Guns are banned, but still plenty around. Those who abide by the laws are not the problem. Ban whatever you like, but the irresponsible people will not pay any attention, and laws are already in place to stop this sort of event. Those who ignore the law today will still ignore it tomorrow, irrespective of whatever new measures are introduced. As is normally the case, only the law abiding public will be affected.

Totally different.

Drones are flown by people, by mistake into the flight path of aircraft. It’s not necessarily the criminals who cause issues.

No, but when it becomes law to register your drone or RC aircraft, those using them to smuggle drugs into prisons or as an aid to terrorism are not going to be rushing to register themselves. I think responsible people will be penalised, as those who operate through clubs have insurance in place, and I believe that the rules they have to adhere to do not permit them to fly within 1km of an airport. I am no expert in the field of RC flying, but I understood that any drone always had to be in the line of sight of the person flying it, or if that person is wearing those goggle things, someone else was required to stand next to them to act as a spotter. If for example a blanket ban was put in place, the irresponsible flyers would carry on regardless, while only those club members who already obey the regulations would be stopped.

Before purchasing mine I did some research and believe you are not allowed for it to go more than 500 mtrs away from you, or out of sight, most only have a 800 mtr range anyway, also battery life is usually no more than 15 mins.

Responsible people will do as you have done, and check out the rules and regulations before using these things. I believe the CAA has written the rules in conjunction with something called the BMFA which covers all model aircraft. Worth checking it all out, because I believe that there are additional regulations which cover flying over the public, buildings etc., as well as another set to cover those who use these drones for commercial purposes. I don't think it's just a matter of going out and buying one and then just take to the air, or the results could be what has just been seen at Gatwick. I have next to no idea what is and is not allowed, but if I was to buy one I would certainly find out for my own protection, and I think a lot of the rules are linked to the weight of the drone, although don't quote me on that.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

How can they bring a drone down?

Thought hard how I could answer that,( I'd have simply ignored it from anyone else ), but here's a publicly available link

https://www.droneshield.com/

https://www.droneshield.com/dronecannonrw/

Clever people can get around drone shields.

How clever are these people likely to be ?
Mike Yardkey reckons it's a State Actor, but I'm unconvinced.
You'd have to use some control system which isn't radio, digital or Internet or anything else known to your people, because all of them can be easily shut down. If you're really stuck you could simply shoot the bloody things down . An M107 would do nicely, but I should think any rifle would do the job.

As someone who works in air traffic control I think the sooner they ban them the better.

I'd disagree, not because I've got a dog in that race, but I think we ban enough stuff already.
In your job though, you also know that they can bring any drone down instantly. What I object to more than anything is the pathetic ruse - if they're going to manipulate public perceptions with tricks ( which is nothing new) , I wish they'd at least make it plausible .
The people who falsely convinced the Germans that D day would be from Norfolk to the Pas-de-Calais and washed up a vagrants corpse in Naval uniform carrying fake invasion plans now produces increasingly transparent schemes which make me wonder whether they're now being invented by the Chuckle Brothers.

(yeah ,I know one of the chuckle brothers has sadly died now, but I still liked the phrase)

How can they bring a drone down?

Thought hard how I could answer that,( I'd have simply ignored it from anyone else ), but here's a publicly available link

https://www.droneshield.com/

https://www.droneshield.com/dronecannonrw/

Clever people can get around drone shields.

How clever are these people likely to be ?
Mike Yardkey reckons it's a State Actor, but I'm unconvinced.
You'd have to use some control system which isn't radio, digital or Internet or anything else known to your people, because all of them can be easily shut down. If you're really stuck you could simply shoot the bloody things down . An M107 would do nicely, but I should think any rifle would do the job.

Would have to be state sponsored to have equipment to get around military defences! Why didn't just shoot bugger down would saved lot hassle what danger is it of a bullet going upwards going anywhere other than into space!