PMG

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

shall we all run away and hide behind a wall until they`ve gone?

It's about time the spotlight started to fall towards this area, PMG and perhaps some of the others on the board have had an easy ride and let riddler take the flack during this saga.

I would imagine the Malaysian consortium are very aware of whats been going on in the past, and will have their own little plan in place soon enough!

Tony,

Perhaps I am wrong but how much has the council lost the ratepayers of the city. I know that their % age from the sale should have been about £700K and this was deferred to help the club pay the HMRC debt but of course it wasn't used for that. I believe it was deferred for 7 yrs

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

I must admit I get quite frustrated by the change of views on PMG on here.Personally , I have always said that they have only ever been involved in CCFC as a business decision linked to their requirements to develop the retail parkThey have never claimed to be putting their money in for any other reason .

When the Trust and the Supporters Club issued a joint statement saying they had done well out of CCFC and urging them to do all they could to facilitate the Malaysian investment , we were both heavily criticised and told to" lay off" them. Yet in recent weeks , they have been the subject of quite heavy verbal abuse on here. Yet no new facts about their involvement have arisen.

I just wish people would make up their minds who or what they believe in and follow. Opinions of all kinds as to whether PMG have been of benefit or not to the club are great , just some on here change their minds more often than the weather (and I am not including you in this Tony).

At that time alot of anger was aimed at Ridsdale due to the ST scam. Everyone was pointing at PR but out of the blue the trust pointed to PMG. Thats why there was a backlash. Going on what I see now the trust were right to have a go at PMG but the only question I will ask now is why did they leave Ridsdale alone?

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

I must admit I get quite frustrated by the change of views on PMG on here.Personally , I have always said that they have only ever been involved in CCFC as a business decision linked to their requirements to develop the retail parkThey have never claimed to be putting their money in for any other reason .

When the Trust and the Supporters Club issued a joint statement saying they had done well out of CCFC and urging them to do all they could to facilitate the Malaysian investment , we were both heavily criticised and told to" lay off" them. Yet in recent weeks , they have been the subject of quite heavy verbal abuse on here. Yet no new facts about their involvement have arisen.

I just wish people would make up their minds who or what they believe in and follow. Opinions of all kinds as to whether PMG have been of benefit or not to the club are great , just some on here change their minds more often than the weather (and I am not including you in this Tony).

Keith maybe the trust and the supporters club could have done more than what they did with their statement and actually made their members aware of what was going on rather than issue the statement which seemed at the time to so many to go against the idea of what was wrong at the club. Maybe if the statement was explained many would have understaood it's motives.

At that time alot of anger was aimed at Ridsdale due to the ST scam. Everyone was pointing at PR but out of the blue the trust pointed to PMG. Thats why there was a backlash. Going on what I see now the trust were right to have a go at PMG but the only question I will ask now is why did they leave Ridsdale alone?

Ridsdale wasn`t mentioned in the statement as it was considered that , by that time , he had been "sussed" by the other key players and was no longer a key decision maker and was on his way out of the club in due course anyway.

Keith

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

I must admit I get quite frustrated by the change of views on PMG on here.Personally , I have always said that they have only ever been involved in CCFC as a business decision linked to their requirements to develop the retail parkThey have never claimed to be putting their money in for any other reason .

When the Trust and the Supporters Club issued a joint statement saying they had done well out of CCFC and urging them to do all they could to facilitate the Malaysian investment , we were both heavily criticised and told to" lay off" them. Yet in recent weeks , they have been the subject of quite heavy verbal abuse on here. Yet no new facts about their involvement have arisen.

I just wish people would make up their minds who or what they believe in and follow. Opinions of all kinds as to whether PMG have been of benefit or not to the club are great , just some on here change their minds more often than the weather (and I am not including you in this Tony).

Keith maybe the trust and the supporters club could have done more than what they did with their statement and actually made their members aware of what was going on rather than issue the statement which seemed at the time to so many to go against the idea of what was wrong at the club. Maybe if the statement was explained many would have understaood it's motives.

I think that`s probably a fair criticism Carl. The problem is that we have to be careful with wording of any official statement eminating from an official constituted body such as the Trust.

I know I tried to explain on an individual basis to many people but many didn`t want to listen.

Keith

Keith maybe the trust and the supporters club could have done more than what they did with their statement and actually made their members aware of what was going on rather than issue the statement which seemed at the time to so many to go against the idea of what was wrong at the club. Maybe if the statement was explained many would have understaood it's motives.

I think that`s probably a fair criticism Carl. The problem is that we have to be careful with wording of any official statement eminating from an official constituted body such as the Trust.

I know I tried to explain on an individual basis to many people but many didn`t want to listen.

Keith

I understand that Keith but there lays the biggest problem for the trust, I mean a problem it has in people believing in it and it's worth, I think people felt that the trust remained silent for far too long and then went barking up the wrong tree, simply because of ignorance and maybe the trust could learn from that situation and possibly become stronger. It is a critiscism but I hope it is taken as constructive.

Ive said this before so sorry for repeating myself but although ideally PMG would be gone surely the Langston debt is MUCH MUCH more important.
Yes PMG continue to take take take take and will continue to take and not invest but they seem under control in terms of ccfc short term future.
Langston debt will increase by a reported 14m in just 4 months which is next to astronomical compared to the interest or money PMG will make in the same period. Will Sam agree a new deal with TG and co, we can hope but all my worries are with langston and not PMG at the moment.

or have i missed something?

Keith maybe the trust and the supporters club could have done more than what they did with their statement and actually made their members aware of what was going on rather than issue the statement which seemed at the time to so many to go against the idea of what was wrong at the club. Maybe if the statement was explained many would have understaood it's motives.

I think that`s probably a fair criticism Carl. The problem is that we have to be careful with wording of any official statement eminating from an official constituted body such as the Trust.

I know I tried to explain on an individual basis to many people but many didn`t want to listen.

Keith

I understand that Keith but there lays the biggest problem for the trust, I mean a problem it has in people believing in it and it's worth, I think people felt that the trust remained silent for far too long and then went barking up the wrong tree, simply because of ignorance and maybe the trust could learn from that situation and possibly become stronger. It is a critiscism but I hope it is taken as constructive.

The trust is in place in essence to provide a link between supporters and the club, IMO it is not a vehicle to be instigating demonstrations and campaigns against the board based on conjecture, basically all the trust did was to ask PMG to do the right thing, no name calling etc, the TRUST has paid members and must act in what it sees as in the interests of the membership.

As a TRUST member, there is no way I would have supported the TRUST in smear campaigns against the likes of Ridsdale although at a personal level I fully supported and took part in the demonstration and the Riverside scarf's etc.

I think that`s probably a fair criticism Carl. The problem is that we have to be careful with wording of any official statement eminating from an official constituted body such as the Trust.

I know I tried to explain on an individual basis to many people but many didn`t want to listen.

Keith

I understand that Keith but there lays the biggest problem for the trust, I mean a problem it has in people believing in it and it's worth, I think people felt that the trust remained silent for far too long and then went barking up the wrong tree, simply because of ignorance and maybe the trust could learn from that situation and possibly become stronger. It is a critiscism but I hope it is taken as constructive.

The trust is in place in essence to provide a link between supporters and the club, IMO it is not a vehicle to be instigating demonstrations and campaigns against the board based on conjecture, basically all the trust did was to ask PMG to do the right thing, no name calling etc, the TRUST has paid members and must act in what it sees as in the interests of the membership.

As a TRUST member, there is no way I would have supported the TRUST in smear campaigns against the likes of Ridsdale although at a personal level I fully supported and took part in the demonstration and the Riverside scarf's etc.

Valid point and I accept that members of the trust committee demonstrated personnally and not as the trust, but would a meeting or possibly an email as a way of explanation to it's members, who quite rightly were confused by everything going on, explain the situation and why certain action or no action was to be taken ?

I wouldn't have had a problem with that.

I wouldn't have had a problem with that.

It would have made the situation a lot clearer for all concerned.

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

I must admit I get quite frustrated by the change of views on PMG on here.Personally , I have always said that they have only ever been involved in CCFC as a business decision linked to their requirements to develop the retail parkThey have never claimed to be putting their money in for any other reason .

When the Trust and the Supporters Club issued a joint statement saying they had done well out of CCFC and urging them to do all they could to facilitate the Malaysian investment , we were both heavily criticised and told to" lay off" them. Yet in recent weeks , they have been the subject of quite heavy verbal abuse on here. Yet no new facts about their involvement have arisen.

I just wish people would make up their minds who or what they believe in and follow. Opinions of all kinds as to whether PMG have been of benefit or not to the club are great , just some on here change their minds more often than the weather (and I am not including you in this Tony).

While I respect TLG and enjoy his posts, I can't confess to having much love for him personally, but this was yet another inglorious example of the unjustified abuse this board has hammered out to individuals when TLG drafted this statement for the Trust, only to be decimated for doing so, whilst this board has the temerity to purport it is holier than tho in comparison to a different web-site... unbelievable hypocrisy... TLG was spot on as is Keith. It will be no surprise if this is deleted, as are many posts that dare point out such anomalies to the detriment of this board. While Carl is quite right to often point out that much of the hugely appreciated information he posts is accurate, I wonder if a congratulatory, self gratuitous post from the Trust will be allowed, and crucially for it to be treated with respect, outlining that they too just may have been right about something and to sing it from the roof tops? For the record, I am not a Trust member and have no intention as yet of becoming so and certainly do not believe they have done everything right by a long stretch. They, and TLG, were sure right on this though.

I have been and still am a fierce critic of Ridsdale, but the more time went on, the clearer it became that he was more a front for PMG who were the real evil, either through blatant self interest in raping and pillaging the club for it's own means via well publicised land deals etc, leaving Ridsdale to take the flak in the process and long after, or pure ignorance in allowing him to do what he inevitably does; take football clubs to the brink of oblivion. That is no defence of Ridsdale who's gluttony and incompetence bears no equal, but given that ultimately he had a boss, it is his responsibility that Ridsdale was allowed to get away with running the club into the groud having been given carte blanche to do so. Only when it was too late did Mr Guy take a forlorn interest in the Club amidst alleged musings from he as to how could things be so bad. I found it, and still do, utterly incredible that Mr Guy wasn't even on the board of the Company he owned for so long. Not good enough, whichever way you look at it, PMG's ineptness is either a sinsiter, deliberate ploy to destabilise the club while making hay, whch I don't think it was, or sheer incompetence borne out of a lack of interest in the club due to priorities lying elsewehere other than the club, themselves.

Just as the club deserves far better than Messrs Hamman & Ridsdale as custodians of our club, so too it deserves better than PMG. In truth and for balance, they served a purpose initially in ensuring the stadium was built, but since then they have been more than well recompensed for lending a helping hand to the extent the gluttony and incompetence lies not just with Ridsdale.

Going off on a slight tangent I have found out that the Swansea City Trust own 19.99% of the shares in thier club and charge members £10 to join , they say that their aim is to have enough shares to have a say into the future of their club . Cant ever see Cardiff Trust getting anywhere near that amount of shares tbh !

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

I must admit I get quite frustrated by the change of views on PMG on here.Personally , I have always said that they have only ever been involved in CCFC as a business decision linked to their requirements to develop the retail parkThey have never claimed to be putting their money in for any other reason .

When the Trust and the Supporters Club issued a joint statement saying they had done well out of CCFC and urging them to do all they could to facilitate the Malaysian investment , we were both heavily criticised and told to" lay off" them. Yet in recent weeks , they have been the subject of quite heavy verbal abuse on here. Yet no new facts about their involvement have arisen.

I just wish people would make up their minds who or what they believe in and follow. Opinions of all kinds as to whether PMG have been of benefit or not to the club are great , just some on here change their minds more often than the weather (and I am not including you in this Tony).

While I respect TLG and enjoy his posts, I can't confess to having much love for him personally, but this was yet another inglorious example of the unjustified abuse this board has hammered out to individuals when TLG drafted this statement for the Trust, only to be decimated for doing so, whilst this board has the temerity to purport it is holier than tho in comparison to a different web-site... unbelievable hypocrisy... TLG was spot on as is Keith. It will be no surprise if this is deleted, as are many posts that dare point out such anomalies to the detriment of this board. While Carl is quite right to often point out that much of the hugely appreciated information he posts is accurate, I wonder if a congratulatory, self gratuitous post from the Trust will be allowed, and crucially for it to be treated with respect, outlining that they too just may have been right about something and to sing it from the roof tops? For the record, I am not a Trust member and have no intention as yet of becoming so and certainly do not believe they have done everything right by a long stretch. They, and TLG, were sure right on this though.

I have been and still am a fierce critic of Ridsdale, but the more time went on, the clearer it became that he was more a front for PMG who were the real evil, either through blatant self interest in raping and pillaging the club for it's own means via well publicised land deals etc, leaving Ridsdale to take the flak in the process and long after, or pure ignorance in allowing him to do what he inevitably does; take football clubs to the brink of oblivion. That is no defence of Ridsdale who's gluttony and incompetence bears no equal, but given that ultimately he had a boss, it is his responsibility that Ridsdale was allowed to get away with running the club into the groud having been given carte blanche to do so. Only when it was too late did Mr Guy take a forlorn interest in the Club amidst alleged musings from he as to how could things be so bad. I found it, and still do, utterly incredible that Mr Guy wasn't even on the board of the Company he owned for so long. Not good enough, whichever way you look at it, PMG's ineptness is either a sinsiter, deliberate ploy to destabilise the club while making hay, whch I don't think it was, or sheer incompetence borne out of a lack of interest in the club due to priorities lying elsewehere other than the club, themselves.

Just as the club deserves far better than Messrs Hamman & Ridsdale as custodians of our club, so too it deserves better than PMG. In truth and for balance, they served a purpose initially in ensuring the stadium was built, but since then they have been more than well recompensed for lending a helping hand to the extent the gluttony and incompetence lies not just with Ridsdale.

Salad I see no reason why your post would be deleted and also if you care to look I have agreed with Claude Blue with regards to the march and who it was against. As much as I feel proud to have marched against Peter Ridsdale, I have admitted that I missed a trick and felt I should have been marching against PMG too. With regards to the trust statement, as I explained above, if the trust or supporters club had explained to it's members the reason behind the statement then many could have understood it's intention.

Salad I see no reason why your post would be deleted and also if you care to look I have agreed with Claude Blue with regards to the march and who it was against. As much as I feel proud to have marched against Peter Ridsdale, I have admitted that I missed a trick and felt I should have been marching against PMG too. With regards to the trust statement, as I explained above, if the trust or supporters club had explained to it's members the reason behind the statement then many could have understood it's intention.

Can't help thinking that you are falling into a trap that many others (myself included) do at times in that it is easy to forget that there is a world outside of Cardiff City messageboards which contains many supporters of the club who do not have access to or interest in them. Although the impression gained at the time was that the majority on here were against the Trust's statement, it would be interesting to know how many complaints they received - I'm not aware of how many there were, but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't many.

Carl, it wasn't meant personally against you, but the, at times, board in general. There have indeed been times when posts and threads have been deleted, but don't ask me to quote them as I can't find them! I have mentioned before, funnily enough in a deleted thread/ post, that this site was a breath of fresh air when first launched, but far too often unsavoury incidents have led to many excellent posters either not posting or posting far less as a result of personal attacks and the like. To ignore or believe that this hasn't happened on here would be ridiculous. On the plus side, I post far less often too as a result! I know I have brought it up this time around, but instead of petulant bickering as to who's board is best, utter folly given that this board has often degenerated to the depths that others do anyway, something which has led to me not posting at all elsewhere, we would be better served concentrating on what made this board so refreshing early on; excellent contributors creating excellent debate, with virtually all members respecting almost all opinions. Don't want to get into a naming names scenario of excellent posters, there are so many in truth, or a brown nosing session with you, but nonetheless your pieces are a key component of this board's success, even though you did cock-tease us about Ridsdale's premature departure! No amount of excellent contributors is more important than the ambience of the board, though, something I feel has slipped markedly as the board has grown and become harder to police.

Back to the march and for me it was a protest against Ridsdale and, if not the whole board, certainly PMG too. Whether that's a personal thing I don't know, but to me Ridsdale was the very public face of the board and especially PMG, so to protest aganst Ridsdale was to me in effect a protest against the whole board and specifically PMG anyway, as indeed it should have been.

Carl, it wasn't meant personally against you, but the, at times, board in general. There have indeed been times when posts and threads have been deleted, but don't ask me to quote them as I can't find them! I have mentioned before, funnily enough in a deleted thread/ post, that this site was a breath of fresh air when first launched, but far too often unsavoury incidents have led to many excellent posters either not posting or posting far less as a result of personal attacks and the like. To ignore or believe that this hasn't happened on here would be ridiculous. On the plus side, I post far less often too as a result! I know I have brought it up this time around, but instead of petulant bickering as to who's board is best, utter folly given that this board has often degenerated to the depths that others do anyway, something which has led to me not posting at all elsewhere, we would be better served concentrating on what made this board so refreshing early on; excellent contributors creating excellent debate, with virtually all members respecting almost all opinions. Don't want to get into a naming names scenario of excellent posters, there are so many in truth, or a brown nosing session with you, but nonetheless your pieces are a key component of this board's success, even though you did cock-tease us about Ridsdale's premature departure! No amount of excellent contributors is more important than the ambience of the board, though, something I feel has slipped markedly as the board has grown and become harder to police.

Back to the march and for me it was a protest against Ridsdale and, if not the whole board, certainly PMG too. Whether that's a personal thing I don't know, but to me Ridsdale was the very public face of the board and especially PMG, so to protest aganst Ridsdale was to me in effect a protest against the whole board and specifically PMG anyway, as indeed it should have been.

Salad, I agree WE did have teething probs, But In the last couple of months, I feel We have sorted most of any Sniping/deleting etc out. A few people did only come on here, Not to Debate but to Del wind the Forum up. We have Well Over 3,000 Members Now and Over 30,000 Different Ips Visit here every month, So Hopefully This Shows The forum has got Stronger and Better. Please Keep Your Posts coming

In the cold light of day i think it will emerge that PMG gave Ridsdale carte blanche to
do whatever he wanted, providing THEY ultimately go what THEY wanted. and they
have done. But the idea of TG forcing them all to sell their shares for as little as 1p
fills me with a sense of elation. Christ I hope it happens!!!

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.

I must admit I get quite frustrated by the change of views on PMG on here.Personally , I have always said that they have only ever been involved in CCFC as a business decision linked to their requirements to develop the retail parkThey have never claimed to be putting their money in for any other reason .

When the Trust and the Supporters Club issued a joint statement saying they had done well out of CCFC and urging them to do all they could to facilitate the Malaysian investment , we were both heavily criticised and told to" lay off" them. Yet in recent weeks , they have been the subject of quite heavy verbal abuse on here. Yet no new facts about their involvement have arisen.

I just wish people would make up their minds who or what they believe in and follow. Opinions of all kinds as to whether PMG have been of benefit or not to the club are great , just some on here change their minds more often than the weather (and I am not including you in this Tony).

While I respect TLG and enjoy his posts, I can't confess to having much love for him personally, but this was yet another inglorious example of the unjustified abuse this board has hammered out to individuals when TLG drafted this statement for the Trust, only to be decimated for doing so, whilst this board has the temerity to purport it is holier than tho in comparison to a different web-site... unbelievable hypocrisy... TLG was spot on as is Keith. It will be no surprise if this is deleted, as are many posts that dare point out such anomalies to the detriment of this board. While Carl is quite right to often point out that much of the hugely appreciated information he posts is accurate, I wonder if a congratulatory, self gratuitous post from the Trust will be allowed, and crucially for it to be treated with respect, outlining that they too just may have been right about something and to sing it from the roof tops? For the record, I am not a Trust member and have no intention as yet of becoming so and certainly do not believe they have done everything right by a long stretch. They, and TLG, were sure right on this though.

I have been and still am a fierce critic of Ridsdale, but the more time went on, the clearer it became that he was more a front for PMG who were the real evil, either through blatant self interest in raping and pillaging the club for it's own means via well publicised land deals etc, leaving Ridsdale to take the flak in the process and long after, or pure ignorance in allowing him to do what he inevitably does; take football clubs to the brink of oblivion. That is no defence of Ridsdale who's gluttony and incompetence bears no equal, but given that ultimately he had a boss, it is his responsibility that Ridsdale was allowed to get away with running the club into the groud having been given carte blanche to do so. Only when it was too late did Mr Guy take a forlorn interest in the Club amidst alleged musings from he as to how could things be so bad. I found it, and still do, utterly incredible that Mr Guy wasn't even on the board of the Company he owned for so long. Not good enough, whichever way you look at it, PMG's ineptness is either a sinsiter, deliberate ploy to destabilise the club while making hay, whch I don't think it was, or sheer incompetence borne out of a lack of interest in the club due to priorities lying elsewehere other than the club, themselves.

Just as the club deserves far better than Messrs Hamman & Ridsdale as custodians of our club, so too it deserves better than PMG. In truth and for balance, they served a purpose initially in ensuring the stadium was built, but since then they have been more than well recompensed for lending a helping hand to the extent the gluttony and incompetence lies not just with Ridsdale.

...can you remind me, who brought PMG on board after ousting Sam Hammam in 2006?

Hi Keith

Although most agreed with the content in the Trust statement about PMG a while back, I think the main objection for most people at the time was the timing of it. It came at the end of a week where Steve Borley was out in Malaysia negotiating investment from the Malaysians and he had personally asked for calm as things were at a delicate state. That said, I think it was the right message to PMG (just wrong timing) and now wish it had been even strong than it was. Could you arrange another one and we'll all get behind it

Cheers

Hiya mate! Alright?

It's about time the spotlight started to fall towards this area, PMG and perhaps some of the others on the board have had an easy ride and let riddler take the flack during this saga.

I kept saying that at the time. It was convenient for them not to get rid of Ridsdale as he would take the flak for as long as he was there. Now he has gone and everything is coming out in the wash, we get to see there are more and more villains behind the scenes all looking after number 1.

Now, to provoke a further debate. Loads of folk on here said well done to Joe Ledley for looking after no. 1 so what do think about PMG et al looking after number 1?

Your last sentence raises a good point PtB. Personally, I despise what Joe did for a year leading up to his contract expiring, once it had, it was his call and I frankly didn't care. Indeed, who on earth can blame him for taking pots of money, I just wish he had the balls to be a little more honest, but it's pretty clear Joe's not the brightest of lads and has almost certainly been badly advised on top too. Still, he's done well for himself with limited ability. I posted before, but it made me laugh when Jones was quoted as saying he was happy for Joe to run his contract down and go the compensation route, when not only would that have around halved his valuation, but of course, no guarantee we would be able to get any compensation at all! Jones says he doesn't get involved with off field matters, when it suits him of course, then makes hay when it does suit him, just like Riddler before him never letting the truth get in the way. His most recent spewings relate to Portsmouth being in 5 x more debt than Cardiff. Didn't realise they were £330m in debt myself.

As for PMG, I would suggest perceptions are different, even though perhaps they shouldn't be. My personal belief has long been the same; we would all be exceedingly naive to believe love and loyalty to a club are prevelant at almost any level, be it the board room, on the pitch, or staff in general. In truth, on the pitch would be the least likely place of all three to find it such have times changed. To pick 2 examples from differing areas, Joe Ledley, local boy who made the first team and allegedly loves the club and Steve Borley, local boy and fan done good wanting to get involved, who would you say has more love for the club? No contest. Acceptance of this unfortunate and sad fact, whether we like it or not, is the only way, but as long as these ultimately mercenaries take the club forward, whatever their role and financial rewards bestowed upon them are, good luck to them. However, I feel such rewards need to be affordable and above board to warrant such good will and given the murky world of football board rooms across the land, not just here, that hasn't and isn't the case.

Besides, football clubs are a complete rarity in business that if they are turning over a profit it is wrong! Any profits are expected to be ploughed into strengthening the team or infrastructure, rather than improving balance sheets, profit margins etc. Our's and football's problems are far deeper rooted than most of us, and certainly me, can comprehend. Stringent legislation is required to ensure football clubs are not only run far better and within affordable budgets, thus ensuring their future existence and tighter, more fair competition with the ability to progress through the leagues, but that those owning football clubs do not see it as an opportunity to asset strip or for personal gain. Football clubs need to, as much as possible, belong to the fans once again, rather than be shrouded in mysterious business deals that merely line the pockets of those already afluent, while the club flirts with potential oblivion as a result.

So, having gone off on a tangent as ever, to answer the question, fans can generally accept players doing well out of the game, even if Joe's actions for example stretch that good will to the limit and beyond, indeed leading to split opinion as to whether someone who's City legend should be as iconic as anyone's, could now be regarded alongside Alan Tate in City folklore! He can have no complaints, he took his 30 pieces of silver and ran, if he had had the balls to man up and admit that's what he did, he would gain more respect, just like Assou-Ekotto gained universal acclaim for his honesty in admitting he's only at Spurs for the money. However, when ordinary folk see busineesmen who have, or should have, already made their fortune rip off the very entity they love, cherish and idolise, that is impossible for many to ignore and rightly so.

Good post.

Over the past few days there has been a health debate on just how much PMG have made out of CCFC in the past few years. Whilst it doesn't give the full picture, lodged at Companies House is the 2008/9 accounts for Cardiff City Premier Seats.

The final note gives a breakdown on how much PMG charged for their £9m loan. In 2007/8 PMG charged a £365,934 'commitment fee' and interest of £12,888 even though they didn't lend any money until April 2008, giving total of £378,822. In 2008/9 (after they made their loan) they charged a further 'commitment fee' of £125,055 and interest of £405,921 total £530,976.

By 31 May 2009 the outstanding balance on their £9m loan including accrued commitment fees and interest was £9,803,077.

The above is fact the rest is my opinion.

If we assume in the year 2009/10 PMG charged a similar amount to 2008/9 (£125k commitment fee & 400k interest) then the total amount owed to them in commitment fees and interest by April this year would have been at least £1.3m.

We know they obtained the hotel land around that time for £1.8m, so I believe they wiped their interest and paid around £500k (at the very most) towards the tax bill, so the sale could be 'spun' as club saving at the EGM.

Of course this still means we owe them the full £9m capital plus any commitment fees and interest added for this year.

I don't know about you but I feel a little ripped off because that land was worth a lot more than £1.8m which seems a very convenient amount knowing what I know now.