" The Cardiff City Academy "

Having a conversation with friends regarding the lack of player coming out of the academy over the last 20 years . One stated city were shit with local talent and we have Let to many players get away from us and the question was who in South Wales have we missed out on that we really would have wanted
We struggled to come up with many names
Bale
Bellemy thou I think he is outside of the 20 years

That's all we came up with who were South Wales based Surely we should have been able to come up with 20 names or is South Wales not a hot bed for talent ?
What are your thoughts ?

Having a conversation with friends regarding the lack of player coming out of the academy over the last 20 years . One stated city were shit with local talent and we have Let to many players get away from us and the question was who in South Wales have we missed out on that we really would have wanted
We struggled to come up with many names
Bale
Bellemy thou I think he is outside of the 20 years

That's all we came up with who were South Wales based Surely we should have been able to come up with 20 names or is South Wales not a hot bed for talent ?
What are your thoughts ?

I've said this before : -

Having played junior & Youth football in the Caerphilly area there have been many players Who I've thought could've made the step up but for some reason these haven't been picked up.
Newport pick up most of the talent in the area and the majority of these are released.
Aaron Ramsey was picked up through the "URDD" I believe as he didn't play junior football before joining Cardiffs academy.

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

We had an excellent academy my question is more around the academy being slagged off for not producing more but I struggle to think of many players in our area that we have missed out on in the last 20 years Most of the talent has been via out academy

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

We had an excellent academy my question is more around the academy being slagged off for not producing more but I struggle to think of many players in our area that we have missed out on in the last 20 years Most of the talent has been via out academy

I was replying to your OP where you stated that "Having a conversation with friends regarding the lack of player coming out of the academy over the last 20 years" so I wanted to put the alternative viewpoint.

I can't think of many others apart from Bale although Regan Poole might prove to be a clanger if he makes the grade at Man United or elsewhere.

It's not just asking who we missed out on and stating bellers and bale. It's the ones everyone missed out on because no one picked them up are the ones I'm interested in.

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

was the academy fantastic..or was it just a golden era for Wales.?

not quite sure what the expectation of our academy should be either tbh.
is it cost effective to have an academy.?

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

was the academy fantastic..or was it just a golden era for Wales.?

not quite sure what the expectation of our academy should be either tbh.
is it cost effective to have an academy.?

I remember someone totting up all the sales from the academy/scouting from the Sam Hammam days and it came to something like £29m (Added to the above Cameron Jerome, Michael Chopra, Roger Johnson etc.)

It is certainly cost effective on those figures to have an academy and a well run scouting and coaching system.

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

Ledley , Ramsey, Gunter , Matthews , Wildig , Ralls , John all got there chance when we were a championship side so we were giving players a chance , but take your point if we were in lower division maybe more would be given a chance

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

Ledley , Ramsey, Gunter , Matthews , Wildig , Ralls , John all got there chance when we were a championship side so we were giving players a chance , but take your point if we were in lower division maybe more would be given a chance

but as I also stated when we needed money, we couldn't afford to buy a full-back, so the likes of Matthews, blake and gunter were given a chance, we needed a midfielder, we couldn't afford wages, so we played Rambo, ledley etc, its all to do with were we are as a club now imo. again if we were cash poor, we would probably of seen several youth players break through by now. the best example I can give really is if you look at league two, clubs like Newport are playing youngsters, that "ampadu" kid, who played for Exeter, hes a youngster at a club needing money

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

We had an excellent academy my question is more around the academy being slagged off for not producing more but I struggle to think of many players in our area that we have missed out on in the last 20 years Most of the talent has been via out academy

I was replying to your OP where you stated that "Having a conversation with friends regarding the lack of player coming out of the academy over the last 20 years" so I wanted to put the alternative viewpoint.

I can't think of many others apart from Bale although Regan Poole might prove to be a clanger if he makes the grade at Man United or elsewhere.

Totally agree with the Regan part Tony united have put him out on loan at Northampton hopefully get some game time for the lad

The problem you find is, which sport do people and the local education authority place bigger emphasis on.

Going through the educational system of Neath Port Talbot local authority, the school I went to, placed major emphasis on Rugby and Athletics. Not even once, the school participated in football league against other schools or tournaments.

The only time I was able to play football was for a local team on a Saturday, with one training session a week. Hardly enough time to develop and enhance the skills within the sports.

With so much co-operation between WRU- Local Authority, Regional rugby and local rugby with the schools, they invested a lot of time in players, training sessions, coaching sessions etc. Hence, our area have been able to produce local rugby players in an abundance.

For football players to progress with Cardiff and Swansea in the area was rare, even if they made the academy, the skills and knowledge they have developed at a school age was not enough, for helping them to progress at an older age.

I actually find there is a massive drop off in rugby players from age grade to senior level. The academies play a sterile game. Anyone half decent is taken off the clubs leaving them with players that won't make the grade. Then a few years later the decent ones not good enough for regional start to filter back in having barely played for a few years. It's poor despite the tie ups. Junior clubs are desperate for players. They can't get them.

We absolutely should be targeting young lads to play for city though. There are a wealth of kids wanting to play football. There is already interest because whilst we may not get the match attendance we would like. It is still vastly superior to anything a rugby side can even dream of.

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

was the academy fantastic..or was it just a golden era for Wales.?

not quite sure what the expectation of our academy should be either tbh.
is it cost effective to have an academy.?

I remember someone totting up all the sales from the academy/scouting from the Sam Hammam days and it came to something like £29m (Added to the above Cameron Jerome, Michael Chopra, Roger Johnson etc.)

It is certainly cost effective on those figures to have an academy and a well run scouting and coaching system.

dont get the jerome, chopra,johnson bit. buying and selling 1st team players is something totally different to bringing through local youngsters involving totally different scouts /coaches. we certainly didnt get 29mill for the ex academy players.. yet ive read it costs about 2 mill a year to fund the academy..if true thats 14million for Declan John since Tan has been here..
not sure what our expectations..should be because other than a very short spell in our history we have produced very little through our youth system /academy...

We have this conversation probably every season academies from majority of clubs fail to produce 1st team players! Southampton Liverpool man u are good at it! chelsea are poor so are man city considering their wealth, even our friends down m4 who reportedly have taken over all city's areas find it hard to get a 1st team player ( can anyone name a valleys lad come through their academy last 6 yrs) its hard to find a kid who's been left behind after big clubs take an interest so we as a club have little chance same as lots clubs below premiership. Maybe with NW showing how its done we may improve our academy once again.

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

This is a very good point.

Didn't Crewe have a bit of a conveyor belt of talent coming through at one point mainly because they had no choice but to bring prospects through to the first team and sell a player each year to stay afloat?

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

sounds good but not acurate.. ALL the above mentioned players broke into first team football due to being exceptional young talent often pushing out experienced players who had cost us considerable fees { considering where we were at the time } and not because the club were in someway using them out of necessity or desperation.
prior to the Sam years when we.. were... desperate for talent { for about 20 years } very little came through.
JsonPerry.Scott young.lee phillips, lee jarman..pat mountain.chris roberts, lee baddeley..spring to mind,some of which were decent lower league players but none that brought in big fees.

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

was the academy fantastic..or was it just a golden era for Wales.?

not quite sure what the expectation of our academy should be either tbh.
is it cost effective to have an academy.?

I remember someone totting up all the sales from the academy/scouting from the Sam Hammam days and it came to something like £29m (Added to the above Cameron Jerome, Michael Chopra, Roger Johnson etc.)

It is certainly cost effective on those figures to have an academy and a well run scouting and coaching system.

dont get the jerome, chopra,johnson bit. buying and selling 1st team players is something totally different to bringing through local youngsters involving totally different scouts /coaches. we certainly didnt get 29mill for the ex academy players.. yet ive read it costs about 2 mill a year to fund the academy..if true thats 14million for Declan John since Tan has been here..
not sure what our expectations..should be because other than a very short spell in our history we have produced very little through our youth system /academy...

£5m for Ramsey, £2m Gunter, £3m Jerome (he did come through the academy), £3m James Collins there's £13m for starters. The point about scouting was buying and developing players to sell for a profit which at one point we were very good at. I totally agree that due to lack of investment over the past 10 years that has somewhat slipped away.

We had a fantastic academy 10 years ago. Wales reached the semi-finals of the Euros last year and of that squad Chris Gunter, James Collins, Joe Ledley and Aaron Ramsey came through the Cardiff academy system.

Also Gareth Bale and David Cotterill were Cardiff born.

was the academy fantastic..or was it just a golden era for Wales.?

not quite sure what the expectation of our academy should be either tbh.
is it cost effective to have an academy.?

I remember someone totting up all the sales from the academy/scouting from the Sam Hammam days and it came to something like £29m (Added to the above Cameron Jerome, Michael Chopra, Roger Johnson etc.)

It is certainly cost effective on those figures to have an academy and a well run scouting and coaching system.

dont get the jerome, chopra,johnson bit. buying and selling 1st team players is something totally different to bringing through local youngsters involving totally different scouts /coaches. we certainly didnt get 29mill for the ex academy players.. yet ive read it costs about 2 mill a year to fund the academy..if true thats 14million for Declan John since Tan has been here..
not sure what our expectations..should be because other than a very short spell in our history we have produced very little through our youth system /academy...

£5m for Ramsey, £2m Gunter, £3m Jerome (he did come through the academy), £3m James Collins there's £13m for starters. The point about scouting was buying and developing players to sell for a profit which at one point we were very good at. I totally agree that due to lack of investment over the past 10 years that has somewhat slipped away.

yes Dave Jones in particular did a good job in finding gems and then selling them at decent profits.
but the thread is about the academy ..which has been very well funded the last 10 years

You've got to remember that the best ones have been picked off to the Level 1 academy teams - they do it all over so we aren't the only ones - those kids get sold a dream and most of the time leave with nothing.

Whatever Newport is picking up then there is a reason why Newport are picking them up.

Ok Poole maybe a recent clanger BUT look at the young Welsh lad signed by Chelsea from The Exeter - is his future going to be any better playing youth football for Chelsea or first team football at Exeter??

They just take the best lads unfortunately think your looking at it the wrong way around. Kids aren't loyal agents aren't loyal and parents aren't loyal. They sign for bright lights and lots of £ these days.

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

sounds good but not acurate.. ALL the above mentioned players broke into first team football due to being exceptional young talent often pushing out experienced players who had cost us considerable fees { considering where we were at the time } and not because the club were in someway using them out of necessity or desperation.
prior to the Sam years when we.. were... desperate for talent { for about 20 years } very little came through.
JsonPerry.Scott young.lee phillips, lee jarman..pat mountain.chris roberts, lee baddeley..spring to mind,some of which were decent lower league players but none that brought in big fees.

first off, I must apologise in the delay of my response, trying to use this forum on an ipad is a nightmare, as it keeps signing me out and then refreshing a page causing me to lose everything I have typed up.

I must disagree with your point regarding it was not out of necessity or desperation, Darcy Blake, Gunter, Rambo all come through during the 2006/2007 season. at the time our full backs were McNaughton, kerrea gilbert and chris barker. if you recall gilbert took a serious knock at the time and barker was injured which is why gunter was pushed through, and then we seen darcy blake played at right back aswell due to some injuries.

our midfield at the time was strong on the pitch but rather weak on the bench, our midfield from left to right at the time was, Ledley, Scimeca, Mcphail, Parry. on the bench we had whitts, willo flood, simon Walton (loan) (jeff whitley who we sent out on loan to stoke and then offered for transfer) Rambo made his city debut at the end of april against Hull, if I remember correctly, it was a nothing game for us. at the time we didn't really have the funds to bring in loans, so the likes of Rambo were promoted to the bench, and then bled through the team.

the issue is that today we simply cannot afford to risk bleeding academy players through, we are desperate for premier league and its riches. james Collins made his debut when we were in divison 3, there wasn't a big difference in funds then for promotion from divison 3, to division 2. this is why we are seeing a load of quality youth players coming through the lower divisions, MKDONS were allowed to play Dele Ali because there wasn't any big expectation of the club for a few seasons, they were building.

right, whats the difference between then and now, are players worse now than then ? no. to me the answer regarding the academy is simple. "Funds + Expectation"

years ago, we were Division 1/2, with no money, which meant instead of going out and buying a Zohore or a tomlin, we promoted an earnshaw, or James Collins (ramsey) through the academy, this give them game time and allowed them to develop freely without pressure of being sacked (the manager)

now, we are constantly targeting promotion meaning youth players don't get the opportunity, managers cannot risk playing an untried player over a pro,

I honestly believe if we were back in league one, not really trying to be promoted, youth players would be used a lot more, and we would see a good few sold on for big money

sounds good but not acurate.. ALL the above mentioned players broke into first team football due to being exceptional young talent often pushing out experienced players who had cost us considerable fees { considering where we were at the time } and not because the club were in someway using them out of necessity or desperation.
prior to the Sam years when we.. were... desperate for talent { for about 20 years } very little came through.
JsonPerry.Scott young.lee phillips, lee jarman..pat mountain.chris roberts, lee baddeley..spring to mind,some of which were decent lower league players but none that brought in big fees.

first off, I must apologise in the delay of my response, trying to use this forum on an ipad is a nightmare, as it keeps signing me out and then refreshing a page causing me to lose everything I have typed up.

I must disagree with your point regarding it was not out of necessity or desperation, Darcy Blake, Gunter, Rambo all come through during the 2006/2007 season. at the time our full backs were McNaughton, kerrea gilbert and chris barker. if you recall gilbert took a serious knock at the time and barker was injured which is why gunter was pushed through, and then we seen darcy blake played at right back aswell due to some injuries.

our midfield at the time was strong on the pitch but rather weak on the bench, our midfield from left to right at the time was, Ledley, Scimeca, Mcphail, Parry. on the bench we had whitts, willo flood, simon Walton (loan) (jeff whitley who we sent out on loan to stoke and then offered for transfer) Rambo made his city debut at the end of april against Hull, if I remember correctly, it was a nothing game for us. at the time we didn't really have the funds to bring in loans, so the likes of Rambo were promoted to the bench, and then bled through the team.

the issue is that today we simply cannot afford to risk bleeding academy players through, we are desperate for premier league and its riches. james Collins made his debut when we were in divison 3, there wasn't a big difference in funds then for promotion from divison 3, to division 2. this is why we are seeing a load of quality youth players coming through the lower divisions, MKDONS were allowed to play Dele Ali because there wasn't any big expectation of the club for a few seasons, they were building.

have to agree to disagree. these players were all looked upon as real talent, not players that would fill gaps,play a couple of dozen games then fade into non league football.. we havent really had this before on since .

I always look out for our Accademy results and for me it's special if players come through the system and then eventually play for us.

I always look out for our Accademy results and for me it's special if players come through the system and then eventually play for us.

Same here. Now and again the U23 side have a game on a Monday afternoon at the International Sports Stadium. I generally catch most of them. Unfortunately last season there wasn't much to brag about but I do like the look of Jamie Veale and Marco Weymans.

I always look out for our Accademy results and for me it's special if players come through the system and then eventually play for us.

Same here. Now and again the U23 side have a game on a Monday afternoon at the International Sports Stadium. I generally catch most of them. Unfortunately last season there wasn't much to brag about but I do like the look of Jamie Veale and Marco Weymans.

Tony, years ago I use to watch all our Reserve games and use to really enjoy them.

I am heard great reports on Jamie Veale