UPDATED ' THATS THE BRITISH SPIRIT WE WANT TO HEAR '

UPDATED
04/11/16

Warnock on poppy ban...

Neil Warnock: "It doesn’t surprise me because FIFA don’t know what they’re doing, nothing ceases to amaze me. They don’t know what it means to our country. I think we should just wear the armbands, they can’t ban that."





England & Scotland FAs to defy poppy ban despite Fifa sanction threat

BBC

Thursday 3rd Nov 2016



The Football Associations of England and Scotland say they will defy a ban on players wearing poppies when the teams meet on Armistice Day.

The FAs will let players wear black armbands with poppy emblems and are willing to accept any punishment.

Fifa general secretary Fatma Samba Diouf Samoura told BBC Sport "any kind of sanction" could follow.

World football's governing body prohibits political, religious or commercial messages on shirts.

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has called the rule "outrageous".




Britain is not the only country that has been suffering from the result of war

English FA chief executive Martin Glenn told BBC Sport that players from both sides would wear black armbands carrying the poppy symbol - traditionally used to remember those who died during World War One - "as a point of principle".

The SFA also confirmed it "intends to pay appropriate tribute by having the Scotland national team wear black armbands bearing poppies".

England play Scotland at Wembley on 11 November in a World Cup 2018 qualifier.

The Football Association of Wales has also written to Fifa requesting permission to wear poppies on armbands during their game against Serbia in Cardiff on 12 November but has not yet committed to defying the ban.

However, Glenn said: "We are standing shoulder to shoulder with the other home nations on this, we all feel very strongly. It's not a political symbol and I think most people would agree with us."

A points deduction could be one option open to Fifa should it decide to punish the FAs for flouting its ban, but Glenn does not believe it will come to that.

He explained: "We don't think we are breaking their law - we think they are misinterpreting it. I'm confident it won't come to anything draconian."

When the issue arose in 2011, a compromise was reached in which players were allowed to wear armbands with the poppy symbol.



The FAs of England and Scotland had asked Fifa for permission to do the same next week, but have been told that would breach the laws of the game.

Both FAs say they are continuing to negotiate with Fifa and are hopeful of finding an amicable solution, but Samoura questioned why an exception should be made for England, Scotland and Wales.

"We have to apply uniformly and across the 211 member associations the laws of the game," she said.

"Britain is not the only country that has been suffering from the result of war. The only question is why are we doing exceptions for just one country and not the rest of the world?"

Asked if the teams could be punished for defying the ban, she said: "It is not really my ambition to punish anybody.

"They just have to recognise themselves that they are part of the rules of the game and they should be ready to face any kind of sanctions or measures."

She added any potential punishment could depend on whether a complaint is made.

What has been the response?

A petition urging Fifa not to uphold the ban has attracted more than a quarter of a million signatories.

Earlier on Wednesday, the issue was raised in Parliament.

"Before they start telling us what to do, they jolly well ought to sort their own house out," said Mrs May, citing the recent Fifa corruption claims which have seen dozens of former officials prosecuted or banned from the sport.

"Our football players want to recognise and respect those who have given their lives for our safety and security. It is absolutely right they should be able to do so."

Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, Mrs May said the wearing of poppies was a matter for the English and Scottish football associations to resolve, but there was a "clear message" from the House of Commons that "we want our players to be able to wear those poppies".

What do the rules say?

The International Football Association Board (Ifab) - made up of the four British FAs and Fifa - is responsible for formulating the laws of the game, which are then upheld by Fifa.

The laws cover everything from the field of play to the equipment used and how the result of a game is determined.

A section of law four, which deals specifically with players' equipment, reads: "Equipment must not have any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images.

"Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo.

"For any infringement the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or to be justified by Fifa."

It does not specify what the sanctions are for breaching those rules.

Are other countries shown leniency?

Fifa has been accused of double standards after it emerged Republic of Ireland players wore a political symbol on their shirts in a friendly against Switzerland on 25 March to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

Damian Collins MP, chairman of the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee, said he had called on Fifa to "clarify the issue".

The Easter Rising was an Irish rebellion against British rule, which lasted from 24 to 29 April 1916 and resulted in 485 deaths.

"That appears to be an absolutely classic example of leniency being shown to other countries," Collins said.

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Bloody right too lets hope the FAW follow the same example.

FIFA claiming that we should follow the rules. Comedy gold that..

Maybe if the organisation set the standards then that would at least mean something...

Hopefully the FAW will follow.

When I was a child I always asked my father who served for 6 years in the army during WWII why he never wore a poppy.
His simple answer was that it 'glorified war.' That was back in the 60s but even more so now, the red poppy has unfortunately become a political symbol. It is used by the British Legion (who he despised) as more of a recruitment symbol than anything else.
Why don't we use the white poppy? This remembers the dead of all countries in all wars and is a symbol of peace.

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

Excellent post, very said.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

Totally agree!

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

Bloody Sunday wasn't the British Armies greatest moment that is true, but also it is fair to say that the IRA crossed the line from 'freedom fighters' to terrorists well before 1972. In response to the growing killings the Government introduced internment and Bloody Sunday developed from a march against internment. It is unfair to label just the British Army at fault during the troubles from 1968-1998 but it is also unfair to say only the IRA are wholly to blame, it was a complete mess and blame lies with all sides.

By the way England last played on Armistice Day 11/11/87. Many WW1 veterans were alive then and many more from WW2.
No poppies. 2016: manufactured row. It's all political.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

Well this is a world of opinions and mine is completely opposite to yours. Nothing is more brave than risking your life to defend your country. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to show my thanks to these brave young men who do a terrific job.

Of course some don't come back or suffer life changing injuries both physically and mentally. That is why to many the wearing of the poppy is so important. Under such circumstances surely it is not beyond others to show 'tolerance' to the wearing of the poppy in the same way we (the British indigenous population) are always lectured about showing tolerance to other traditions and cultures from foreign countries?

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

James McLean is happy to be very well paid in British Pounds, strange his "integrity" doesn't prevent that. You mention Bloody Sunday but as a high ranking British Officer once said you fail to mention Bloody every other day of the week, Eniskillen, Warrington, Birmingham, London, Omagh etc etc etc etc. The Poppy is worn to remember all who have fallen in war, if you don't want to wear one don't, thats the free society our (well my)forefathers fought for. James Mcleans were no doubt refuelling Nazi Submarines along with the rest of the British Haters.

By the way England last played on Armistice Day 11/11/87. Many WW1 veterans were alive then and many more from WW2.
No poppies. 2016: manufactured row. It's all political.

But in 2011 England did wear poppy armbands so that really kills that point. Also 100 years ago WW1 was raging so why is it such a crime to commemorate it now?

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

James McLean is happy to be very well paid in British Pounds, strange his "integrity" doesn't prevent that. You mention Bloody Sunday but as a high ranking British Officer once said you fail to mention Bloody every other day of the week, Eniskillen, Warrington, Birmingham, London, Omagh etc etc etc etc. The Poppy is worn to remember all who have fallen in war, if you don't want to wear one don't, thats the free society our (well my)forefathers fought for. James Mcleans were no doubt refuelling Nazi Submarines along with the rest of the British Haters.

Good point the man is principled until it hits his pocket.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

Well this is a world of opinions and mine is completely opposite to yours. Nothing is more brave than risking your life to defend your country. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to show my thanks to these brave young men who do a terrific job.

Of course some don't come back or suffer life changing injuries both physically and mentally. That is why to many the wearing of the poppy is so important. Under such circumstances surely it is not beyond others to show 'tolerance' to the wearing of the poppy in the same way we (the British indigenous population) are always lectured about showing tolerance to other traditions and cultures from foreign countries?

I don't disagree with what you say, but why is football all of a sudden the place to show your allegiance to the military. I don't say anywhere that these are not brave men etc. but what I don't want is my sport to be politicised in the way it has been the past decade. It was never like this before Iraq, Afghanistan and so on - the wearing of the poppy symbolised the remembrance of those who passed in the 2 world wars and was a solemn occasion. In recent times, at the CCS we've had the military leading the teams out and strutting round the edge of the pitch; where is the remembrance to the fallen in that? Like I said I am not against wearing a poppy or remembering the dead - I just don't see why it has to be done at a football match.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

Well this is a world of opinions and mine is completely opposite to yours. Nothing is more brave than risking your life to defend your country. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to show my thanks to these brave young men who do a terrific job.

Of course some don't come back or suffer life changing injuries both physically and mentally. That is why to many the wearing of the poppy is so important. Under such circumstances surely it is not beyond others to show 'tolerance' to the wearing of the poppy in the same way we (the British indigenous population) are always lectured about showing tolerance to other traditions and cultures from foreign countries?

I don't disagree with what you say, but why is football all of a sudden the place to show your allegiance to the military. I don't say anywhere that these are not brave men etc. but what I don't want is my sport to be politicised in the way it has been the past decade. It was never like this before Iraq, Afghanistan and so on - the wearing of the poppy symbolised the remembrance of those who passed in the 2 world wars and was a solemn occasion. In recent times, at the CCS we've had the military leading the teams out and strutting round the edge of the pitch; where is the remembrance to the fallen in that? Like I said I am not against wearing a poppy or remembering the dead - I just don't see why it has to be done at a football match.

And as I explained in my first reply there are many others who think differently and welcome the opportunity to applaud our armed services at football matches. It comes down to perception mine is a chance to show my admiration yours is the whole thing is politicised. You may well have a point but whether it is a political point is not important to me, showing my gratitude is.

There are some good points on both sides of the argument here gents

I don't understand why the Government wishes to politicise this and thereby fan the flames further. As was posted earlier it should be individual choice if someone wishes to wear a poppy and why should they be forced to wear one during a football match? Is it such a big deal if they are not worn during the match yet worn by the individuals, purely out of choice, in their private moments?

I don't understand why the Government wishes to politicise this and thereby fan the flames further. As was posted earlier it should be individual choice if someone wishes to wear a poppy and why should they be forced to wear one during a football match? Is it such a big deal if they are not worn during the match yet worn by the individuals, purely out of choice, in their private moments?

Exactly, there should be a choice. If players choose to wear a poppy to show their respect for those who gave their lives for our freedom, why should FIFA tell them they can't. They fought for our freedom, and everyone should be free to choose whether or not they wish to display a poppy.

Bloody right too lets hope the FAW follow the same example.

And run the risk of being deducted points? Do you want to see Wales in the World Cup?

FIFA claiming that we should follow the rules. Comedy gold that..

Maybe if the organisation set the standards then that would at least mean something...

Hopefully the FAW will follow.

Yes, and who made these rules? IFAB did. Now then, can you remember who IFAB consists of? Yes, FIFA, and oh wait, THE HOME NATIONS!

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

Spot on.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

Spot on.

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

James McLean is happy to be very well paid in British Pounds, strange his "integrity" doesn't prevent that. You mention Bloody Sunday but as a high ranking British Officer once said you fail to mention Bloody every other day of the week, Eniskillen, Warrington, Birmingham, London, Omagh etc etc etc etc. The Poppy is worn to remember all who have fallen in war, if you don't want to wear one don't, thats the free society our (well my)forefathers fought for. James Mcleans were no doubt refuelling Nazi Submarines along with the rest of the British Haters.

The IRA was a comparatively puny organisation before Bloody Sunday. The British Army gave it its biggest victory ever. So they started it.

By the way England last played on Armistice Day 11/11/87. Many WW1 veterans were alive then and many more from WW2.
No poppies. 2016: manufactured row. It's all political.

Wales have played Czechoslovakia and Brazil on Armistice Day in the past, and there were no poppies in sight.

Red poppies only commemorate the deaths of British military, not the countless innocents or those who have died fighting for freedom against British imperialism.
In that sense they are overtly political.
If I were a pacifist, I'd wear a white poppy, to remember all who have died in wars.
I'm not though, as there are situations where occupied or oppressed people are left with no choice but to take up arms, such as Mandela's ANC in S.Africa.
I'm with James McClean all the way, a player booed in every ground by ignorant fans.
In his hometown of Derry, on Bloody Sunday, the so-called heroes of the British army killed 14 innocent people at a Civil Rights demo. How can anyone laud a military machine which has committed such an atrocity.....and nobody prosecuted, of course.

James McLean is happy to be very well paid in British Pounds, strange his "integrity" doesn't prevent that. You mention Bloody Sunday but as a high ranking British Officer once said you fail to mention Bloody every other day of the week, Eniskillen, Warrington, Birmingham, London, Omagh etc etc etc etc. The Poppy is worn to remember all who have fallen in war, if you don't want to wear one don't, thats the free society our (well my)forefathers fought for. James Mcleans were no doubt refuelling Nazi Submarines along with the rest of the British Haters.

So what is he supposed to do, refuse to be paid by his club, with whom he has a contract? I'm not sure where his wages come into it

By the way England last played on Armistice Day 11/11/87. Many WW1 veterans were alive then and many more from WW2.
No poppies. 2016: manufactured row. It's all political.

But in 2011 England did wear poppy armbands so that really kills that point. Also 100 years ago WW1 was raging so why is it such a crime to commemorate it now?

But why has it become such an issue now when it wasn't 20 or 30 years ago or even in the four years in between 2011 and 2016? Wales played matches in 2013, 2014 and last year with no poppy in sight, or any fuss made about a lack of poppies.

getting very sick of the way everything military is being associated with football. Personally, whilst I accept that these are brave men who fight and are prepared to die for their country, I see no reason for them to be paraded in front of football crowds like some sort of strange celebrity cult. Its a choice to fight in wars and not everyone wants it rammed down their throats. Buy a poppy and wear it with pride by all means if that is what you wish to do, but keep it away from sport please.

Well this is a world of opinions and mine is completely opposite to yours. Nothing is more brave than risking your life to defend your country. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to show my thanks to these brave young men who do a terrific job.

Of course some don't come back or suffer life changing injuries both physically and mentally. That is why to many the wearing of the poppy is so important. Under such circumstances surely it is not beyond others to show 'tolerance' to the wearing of the poppy in the same way we (the British indigenous population) are always lectured about showing tolerance to other traditions and cultures from foreign countries?

I don't disagree with what you say, but why is football all of a sudden the place to show your allegiance to the military. I don't say anywhere that these are not brave men etc. but what I don't want is my sport to be politicised in the way it has been the past decade. It was never like this before Iraq, Afghanistan and so on - the wearing of the poppy symbolised the remembrance of those who passed in the 2 world wars and was a solemn occasion. In recent times, at the CCS we've had the military leading the teams out and strutting round the edge of the pitch; where is the remembrance to the fallen in that? Like I said I am not against wearing a poppy or remembering the dead - I just don't see why it has to be done at a football match.

Exactly. I hope the FAW don't give in to the BritNats, because once we start militarising Wales games, then we turn into rugby and start parading goats on the pitch.

FIFA have these rules for very good reason. I am not offended by the poppy, any sane British person isn't either. But allowing a Poppy means allowing other political symbols that in some volatile places in the world could cause mayhem. I agree with FIFA, no poppies on the shirt of international teams. Cuts out a lot of grief.

There will be some form of remembrance for those who laid down their lives for us, don't worry.

Its f*cking remembering the drad service men and women who died fighting for our way off life ffs
Why should footballers have a poppy on there shirts on remembrance day? Its showing respect
Its only fifa making a sing and dance about it
f*cking few years back it was not a issue but its this political correctness going over bored yet again
Lets please all the muslims left wing and ever other f*cking ideot group but f**k our own traditions