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Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:47 am

Cardiff City ranked in Championship debt table.

Championship clubs, including Cardiff City, have together amassed more than £1.1bn of debt, exclusive research compiled by Insider has revealed, highlighting the alarming state of some of the teams who are battling to reach the top tier of English football.

The research, which analysed the most recent financial accounts for all 24 clubs in this season's Championship, also found the total debt was almost double the division's collective turnover figure.

Bolton Wanderers remain the side with the largest debt pile of £182.1m – the vast majority of which is owed to Eddie Davies, a self-made millionaire through the manufacture of thermostats and kettle parts. Chairman Phil Gartside has previously described Davies' support as "humbling" but it's no secret the businessman is now looking for an exit.

Other clubs who have amassed large net debts are Queens Park Rangers (£179.6m), Ipswich Town (£82.4m), Cardiff City (£81.1m) and Hull City (£64.8m). Only Preston North End are in a net funds position thanks to owner Trevor Hemmings' decision to wipe more than £34m off its balance sheet during the club's latest accounts filed at Companies House.

The debt figure paints an alarming picture of the difficulties for many clubs to adjust to life in the Championship after dropping out of the Premier League. Combined turnover totalled £646.4m with a significant chunk of that coming from parachute payments to relegated clubs.

Parachute payments, designed to cushion the financial blow, currently total £60m over a four-year period. However, from 2016-17, payments will be made over three years instead of four, while clubs who are relegated after just a single year in the Premier League will only quality for two years' of payments.
Despite the hefty debt figure among the Championship's 24 clubs – which works out at an average of £48.5m each – a recent report by insolvency specialist Begbies Traynor found that Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules are having an impact.

Its Red Flag Alert Football Distress Report said that just three clubs of the 72 in the Championship and Leagues One and Two are suffering from "serious financial distress". This is a 63 per cent reduction in the number of financially stressed football clubs since the survey was last carried out in March 2014.

The Championship's FFP rules were introduced in April 2012 set limits for losses and sanctions including transfer embargoes for overspending. In November 2014, clubs agreed to a new set of rules from 2016-17 whereby finances will be monitored over three seasons during which a £15m loss is permitted.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wal ... -hits-11bn
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Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:01 pm

Bloody hell!

Preston the only team without any debt?

Their chairman must be a financial wizard? I wonder who it is? :lol:

Perhaps he could come here as we could do with someone with his expertise! :thumbup:

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:07 pm

NIGELNIGLE wrote:Cardiff City ranked in Championship debt table.

Championship clubs, including Cardiff City, have together amassed more than £1.1bn of debt, exclusive research compiled by Insider has revealed, highlighting the alarming state of some of the teams who are battling to reach the top tier of English football.

The research, which analysed the most recent financial accounts for all 24 clubs in this season's Championship, also found the total debt was almost double the division's collective turnover figure.

Bolton Wanderers remain the side with the largest debt pile of £182.1m – the vast majority of which is owed to Eddie Davies, a self-made millionaire through the manufacture of thermostats and kettle parts. Chairman Phil Gartside has previously described Davies' support as "humbling" but it's no secret the businessman is now looking for an exit.

Other clubs who have amassed large net debts are Queens Park Rangers (£179.6m), Ipswich Town (£82.4m), Cardiff City (£81.1m) and Hull City (£64.8m). Only Preston North End are in a net funds position thanks to owner Trevor Hemmings' decision to wipe more than £34m off its balance sheet during the club's latest accounts filed at Companies House.

The debt figure paints an alarming picture of the difficulties for many clubs to adjust to life in the Championship after dropping out of the Premier League. Combined turnover totalled £646.4m with a significant chunk of that coming from parachute payments to relegated clubs.

Parachute payments, designed to cushion the financial blow, currently total £60m over a four-year period. However, from 2016-17, payments will be made over three years instead of four, while clubs who are relegated after just a single year in the Premier League will only quality for two years' of payments.
Despite the hefty debt figure among the Championship's 24 clubs – which works out at an average of £48.5m each – a recent report by insolvency specialist Begbies Traynor found that Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules are having an impact.

Its Red Flag Alert Football Distress Report said that just three clubs of the 72 in the Championship and Leagues One and Two are suffering from "serious financial distress". This is a 63 per cent reduction in the number of financially stressed football clubs since the survey was last carried out in March 2014.

The Championship's FFP rules were introduced in April 2012 set limits for losses and sanctions including transfer embargoes for overspending. In November 2014, clubs agreed to a new set of rules from 2016-17 whereby finances will be monitored over three seasons during which a £15m loss is permitted.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wal ... -hits-11bn


Quite a decent article , but unfortunately quoting incorrect figures. CCFC`s net debt at 31 May 2014 was £65.8m not the £81.1m stated. Haven`t looked at whether other clubs` figures are similarly wrong.

I have commented more on the report on Mike`s board.

Keith

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:11 pm

davids wrote:Bloody hell!

Preston the only team without any debt?

Their chairman must be a financial wizard? I wonder who it is? :lol:

Perhaps he could come here as we could do with someone with his expertise! :thumbup:



Peter Ridsdale hasn`t been Chairman of PNE for some time now , since it was pointed out to the League that he couldn`t be while he was still serving a 9 year ban as having been found to be unfit to be a director or involved in the management of a company after the demise of his WH Sports company.

I believe he now refers to himself as being "consultant to the owner" or something similar :roll:

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:46 pm

ccfcsince62 wrote:
davids wrote:Bloody hell!

Preston the only team without any debt?

Their chairman must be a financial wizard? I wonder who it is? :lol:

Perhaps he could come here as we could do with someone with his expertise! :thumbup:



Peter Ridsdale hasn`t been Chairman of PNE for some time now , since it was pointed out to the League that he couldn`t be while he was still serving a 9 year ban as having been found to be unfit to be a director or involved in the management of a company after the demise of his WH Sports company.

I believe he now refers to himself as being "consultant to the owner" or something similar :roll:


Thanks - I'd forgotten about his little problems!

Strange though how the only club with no debt at all has seen Mr Ridsdale's involvement in the recent past as debt ridden clubs seem to be a speciality of his.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:52 pm

Our debt should read a lot better this season

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:56 pm

And I thought we had problems...

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:25 pm

Very interesting read!

I must admit, I admire Russell Slade for cutting down the wage bill and we've certainly had a positive start to the season! Hopefully we can continue this way as we're slowly but surely moving in the right direction :ayatollah:

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:33 pm

I know it's not great but I actually thought it would be worse than that and we would be second after Bolton. The club is definitely doing the right thing in not splashing silly money at players especially as we still have so many on premiership wages. I bet if you compare put wage bill now to when say we reached play off final the difference would be staggering.

Looking at Boro can't see where they are getting their money from for downing and bids for Rhodes etc. If they don't get promotion this year there could be trouble afoot

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:25 pm

JonCCFC wrote:And I thought we had problems...





god no we are positively healrhy considering everything thats gone on! at least we have backing others not so lucky! :old:

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:10 pm

Very interesting.

No wonder we are fire fighting now

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:13 pm

I thought Birmingham would be in more debt due to their overseas chairman problems

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:21 pm

NIBluebird wrote:I thought Birmingham would be in more debt due to their overseas chairman problems





isnt their problems more to do with available funds rather than actual debts? :o

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:45 pm

So according to that our debt has dropped around 70 million !! Hmmmm good news if true but somehow it doesn't ring true

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:19 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:So according to that our debt has dropped around 70 million !! Hmmmm good news if true but somehow it doesn't ring true


How did you arrive at that conclusion? The figures show that the club's net debt has gone up every year since 2012 (as it did for most years before that)

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:21 pm

ccfcsince62 wrote:
NIGELNIGLE wrote:Cardiff City ranked in Championship debt table.

Championship clubs, including Cardiff City, have together amassed more than £1.1bn of debt, exclusive research compiled by Insider has revealed, highlighting the alarming state of some of the teams who are battling to reach the top tier of English football.

The research, which analysed the most recent financial accounts for all 24 clubs in this season's Championship, also found the total debt was almost double the division's collective turnover figure.

Bolton Wanderers remain the side with the largest debt pile of £182.1m – the vast majority of which is owed to Eddie Davies, a self-made millionaire through the manufacture of thermostats and kettle parts. Chairman Phil Gartside has previously described Davies' support as "humbling" but it's no secret the businessman is now looking for an exit.

Other clubs who have amassed large net debts are Queens Park Rangers (£179.6m), Ipswich Town (£82.4m), Cardiff City (£81.1m) and Hull City (£64.8m). Only Preston North End are in a net funds position thanks to owner Trevor Hemmings' decision to wipe more than £34m off its balance sheet during the club's latest accounts filed at Companies House.

The debt figure paints an alarming picture of the difficulties for many clubs to adjust to life in the Championship after dropping out of the Premier League. Combined turnover totalled £646.4m with a significant chunk of that coming from parachute payments to relegated clubs.

Parachute payments, designed to cushion the financial blow, currently total £60m over a four-year period. However, from 2016-17, payments will be made over three years instead of four, while clubs who are relegated after just a single year in the Premier League will only quality for two years' of payments.
Despite the hefty debt figure among the Championship's 24 clubs – which works out at an average of £48.5m each – a recent report by insolvency specialist Begbies Traynor found that Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules are having an impact.

Its Red Flag Alert Football Distress Report said that just three clubs of the 72 in the Championship and Leagues One and Two are suffering from "serious financial distress". This is a 63 per cent reduction in the number of financially stressed football clubs since the survey was last carried out in March 2014.

The Championship's FFP rules were introduced in April 2012 set limits for losses and sanctions including transfer embargoes for overspending. In November 2014, clubs agreed to a new set of rules from 2016-17 whereby finances will be monitored over three seasons during which a £15m loss is permitted.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wal ... -hits-11bn


Quite a decent article , but unfortunately quoting incorrect figures. CCFC`s net debt at 31 May 2014 was £65.8m not the £81.1m stated. Haven`t looked at whether other clubs` figures are similarly wrong.

I have commented more on the report on Mike`s board.

Keith


Thought we were 130 million in debt?

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:23 pm

ccfcsince62 wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:So according to that our debt has dropped around 70 million !! Hmmmm good news if true but somehow it doesn't ring true


How did you arrive at that conclusion? The figures show that the club's net debt has gone up every year since 2012 (as it did for most years before that)


Nukes is basing this on the 130 million debt it was said on here we had.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:29 pm

maccydee wrote:
ccfcsince62 wrote:
NIGELNIGLE wrote:Cardiff City ranked in Championship debt table.

Championship clubs, including Cardiff City, have together amassed more than £1.1bn of debt, exclusive research compiled by Insider has revealed, highlighting the alarming state of some of the teams who are battling to reach the top tier of English football.

The research, which analysed the most recent financial accounts for all 24 clubs in this season's Championship, also found the total debt was almost double the division's collective turnover figure.

Bolton Wanderers remain the side with the largest debt pile of £182.1m – the vast majority of which is owed to Eddie Davies, a self-made millionaire through the manufacture of thermostats and kettle parts. Chairman Phil Gartside has previously described Davies' support as "humbling" but it's no secret the businessman is now looking for an exit.

Other clubs who have amassed large net debts are Queens Park Rangers (£179.6m), Ipswich Town (£82.4m), Cardiff City (£81.1m) and Hull City (£64.8m). Only Preston North End are in a net funds position thanks to owner Trevor Hemmings' decision to wipe more than £34m off its balance sheet during the club's latest accounts filed at Companies House.

The debt figure paints an alarming picture of the difficulties for many clubs to adjust to life in the Championship after dropping out of the Premier League. Combined turnover totalled £646.4m with a significant chunk of that coming from parachute payments to relegated clubs.

Parachute payments, designed to cushion the financial blow, currently total £60m over a four-year period. However, from 2016-17, payments will be made over three years instead of four, while clubs who are relegated after just a single year in the Premier League will only quality for two years' of payments.
Despite the hefty debt figure among the Championship's 24 clubs – which works out at an average of £48.5m each – a recent report by insolvency specialist Begbies Traynor found that Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules are having an impact.

Its Red Flag Alert Football Distress Report said that just three clubs of the 72 in the Championship and Leagues One and Two are suffering from "serious financial distress". This is a 63 per cent reduction in the number of financially stressed football clubs since the survey was last carried out in March 2014.

The Championship's FFP rules were introduced in April 2012 set limits for losses and sanctions including transfer embargoes for overspending. In November 2014, clubs agreed to a new set of rules from 2016-17 whereby finances will be monitored over three seasons during which a £15m loss is permitted.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wal ... -hits-11bn


Quite a decent article , but unfortunately quoting incorrect figures. CCFC`s net debt at 31 May 2014 was £65.8m not the £81.1m stated. Haven`t looked at whether other clubs` figures are similarly wrong.

I have commented more on the report on Mike`s board.

Keith


Thought we were 130 million in debt?


You and Nukes are mixing up gross debt and net debt (I.e. Total debts less total assets). Even though the article gives an inaccurate figure, it relates to net debt.

If you look on Mike's board I have tried to set out an explanation of the true figures for the last three years

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:58 pm

ccfcsince62 wrote:
maccydee wrote:
ccfcsince62 wrote:
NIGELNIGLE wrote:Cardiff City ranked in Championship debt table.

Championship clubs, including Cardiff City, have together amassed more than £1.1bn of debt, exclusive research compiled by Insider has revealed, highlighting the alarming state of some of the teams who are battling to reach the top tier of English football.

The research, which analysed the most recent financial accounts for all 24 clubs in this season's Championship, also found the total debt was almost double the division's collective turnover figure.

Bolton Wanderers remain the side with the largest debt pile of £182.1m – the vast majority of which is owed to Eddie Davies, a self-made millionaire through the manufacture of thermostats and kettle parts. Chairman Phil Gartside has previously described Davies' support as "humbling" but it's no secret the businessman is now looking for an exit.

Other clubs who have amassed large net debts are Queens Park Rangers (£179.6m), Ipswich Town (£82.4m), Cardiff City (£81.1m) and Hull City (£64.8m). Only Preston North End are in a net funds position thanks to owner Trevor Hemmings' decision to wipe more than £34m off its balance sheet during the club's latest accounts filed at Companies House.

The debt figure paints an alarming picture of the difficulties for many clubs to adjust to life in the Championship after dropping out of the Premier League. Combined turnover totalled £646.4m with a significant chunk of that coming from parachute payments to relegated clubs.

Parachute payments, designed to cushion the financial blow, currently total £60m over a four-year period. However, from 2016-17, payments will be made over three years instead of four, while clubs who are relegated after just a single year in the Premier League will only quality for two years' of payments.
Despite the hefty debt figure among the Championship's 24 clubs – which works out at an average of £48.5m each – a recent report by insolvency specialist Begbies Traynor found that Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules are having an impact.

Its Red Flag Alert Football Distress Report said that just three clubs of the 72 in the Championship and Leagues One and Two are suffering from "serious financial distress". This is a 63 per cent reduction in the number of financially stressed football clubs since the survey was last carried out in March 2014.

The Championship's FFP rules were introduced in April 2012 set limits for losses and sanctions including transfer embargoes for overspending. In November 2014, clubs agreed to a new set of rules from 2016-17 whereby finances will be monitored over three seasons during which a £15m loss is permitted.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wal ... -hits-11bn


Quite a decent article , but unfortunately quoting incorrect figures. CCFC`s net debt at 31 May 2014 was £65.8m not the £81.1m stated. Haven`t looked at whether other clubs` figures are similarly wrong.

I have commented more on the report on Mike`s board.

Keith


Thought we were 130 million in debt?


You and Nukes are mixing up gross debt and net debt (I.e. Total debts less total assets). Even though the article gives an inaccurate figure, it relates to net debt.

If you look on Mike's board I have tried to set out an explanation of the true figures for the last three years


So Tan hasn't screwed us really?

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:10 pm

maccydee wrote:inaccurate


"Screwed" in what sense?

The net debt of the club has increased greatly since he took over.

If he honours his word to convert all the debt due to him into shares ( and we have now been waiting over two years since his public promise to do so) then he will not have "screwed" the club. If he proves not to be a man whose word can be trusted and not carry out that promise then he will have "screwed" the club quite royally!

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:23 pm

ccfcsince62 wrote:
maccydee wrote:inaccurate


"Screwed" in what sense?

The net debt of the club has increased greatly since he took over.

If he honours his word to convert all the debt due to him into shares ( and we have now been waiting over two years since his public promise to do so) then he will not have "screwed" the club. If he proves not to be a man whose word can be trusted and not carry out that promise then he will have "screwed" the club quite royally!


What was the net debt before he came taking into account 30 million to Langstone and the debt Ridsdale ran up?

Also, the debt to shares was linked to the rebrand he has now reversed.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:56 pm

maccydee wrote:
ccfcsince62 wrote:
maccydee wrote:inaccurate


"Screwed" in what sense?

The net debt of the club has increased greatly since he took over.

If he honours his word to convert all the debt due to him into shares ( and we have now been waiting over two years since his public promise to do so) then he will not have "screwed" the club. If he proves not to be a man whose word can be trusted and not carry out that promise then he will have "screwed" the club quite royally!


What was the net debt before he came taking into account 30 million to Langstone and the debt Ridsdale ran up?

Also, the debt to shares was linked to the rebrand he has now reversed.


The net debt went up by about £38m between 31 May 2012 and 31 May 2014. I don't have the figures to hand for earlier years but the net debt went up as well between Tan's takeover and the May 2012 figure.

The debt to equity wasn't conditional on the rebrand. If you look online to his televised interview in July 2013 (when he got his honorary degree from USW) he promised to convert his debt ( which he quotes as £130 m) to shares as soon as he signed an agreement with Langston,which he did within a week. The shirt colour was irrelevant to that decision and promise.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:07 pm

ccfcsince62 wrote:
maccydee wrote:
ccfcsince62 wrote:
maccydee wrote:inaccurate


"Screwed" in what sense?

The net debt of the club has increased greatly since he took over.

If he honours his word to convert all the debt due to him into shares ( and we have now been waiting over two years since his public promise to do so) then he will not have "screwed" the club. If he proves not to be a man whose word can be trusted and not carry out that promise then he will have "screwed" the club quite royally!


What was the net debt before he came taking into account 30 million to Langstone and the debt Ridsdale ran up?

Also, the debt to shares was linked to the rebrand he has now reversed.


The net debt went up by about £38m between 31 May 2012 and 31 May 2014. I don't have the figures to hand for earlier years but the net debt went up as well between Tan's takeover and the May 2012 figure.

The debt to equity wasn't conditional on the rebrand. If you look online to his televised interview in July 2013 (when he got his honorary degree from USW) he promised to convert his debt ( which he quotes as £130 m) to shares as soon as he signed an agreement with Langston,which he did within a week. The shirt colour was irrelevant to that decision and promise.


But we were already red by then so he wouldn't say it was linked. It was quite clear the 100million investment was linked to the rebrand. Part of that would be used to purchase all the shares to gain total ownership of the club then sort Langstone then convert debt to shares.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:30 pm

That's not so bad. :thumbright: :ayatollah:

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:40 pm

To be honest, it's looking a lot better when compared to others. Almost good news!!

Hope the policy to cut outgoings has the desired effect. :bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:12 am

Rydogsccfc wrote:That's not so bad. :thumbright: :ayatollah:


Depends on how you look at it. As explained above we still owe Tan at least £130m but due to the value of the assets i.e. everything from the stadium, players, fax machine and water cooler then the 'net' debt drops to £65.1m.

This debt & assets are notional really. Could we really sell the stadium for £40m (or whatever its valued at) or will Tan ever get his £130m back out of day to day trading @ Cardiff City? Both are pretty unlikely but you never know and I suppose it does give some kind of snapshot of our financial standing.

That snapshot being even if we sold every last nail and tea cup we would still owe £65.1m

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:20 am

wez1927 wrote:Our debt should read a lot better this season


Wez,it should do and rightly so,we've been run like a madhouse over the years and not just in spending on players,but in all areas of the stadium and behind the scenes.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:22 am

ccfcsince62 wrote:The debt to equity wasn't conditional on the rebrand. If you look online to his televised interview in July 2013 (when he got his honorary degree from USW) he promised to convert his debt ( which he quotes as £130 m) to shares as soon as he signed an agreement with Langston,which he did within a week. The shirt colour was irrelevant to that decision and promise.


That is totally wrong. The original promise was to invest £100m in exchange for the rebrand and made after the conclusion of the 2011/12 season.

The £100m would fund a new training ground, debt to equity, stadium expansion and players to push for a promotion bid in 2012/13 and all this would only take place if the club/supporters agreed to the rebrand, in other words it was fundamental.

Pointing to a video made 12 months later and taking what was said out of context does-not prove anything.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:56 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
ccfcsince62 wrote:The debt to equity wasn't conditional on the rebrand. If you look online to his televised interview in July 2013 (when he got his honorary degree from USW) he promised to convert his debt ( which he quotes as £130 m) to shares as soon as he signed an agreement with Langston,which he did within a week. The shirt colour was irrelevant to that decision and promise.


That is totally wrong. The original promise was to invest £100m in exchange for the rebrand and made after the conclusion of the 2011/12 season.

The £100m would fund a new training ground, debt to equity, stadium expansion and players to push for a promotion bid in 2012/13 and all this would only take place if the club/supporters agreed to the rebrand, in other words it was fundamental.

Pointing to a video made 12 months later and taking what was said out of context does-not prove anything.


Exactly. Tan fulfilled most of his side of the bargain. We did not. That's not me licking his arse it's stating the truth. Some of our fans can't handle that truth.

Re: Cardiff City/Championship debt table

Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:57 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Rydogsccfc wrote:That's not so bad. :thumbright: :ayatollah:


Depends on how you look at it. As explained above we still owe Tan at least £130m but due to the value of the assets i.e. everything from the stadium, players, fax machine and water cooler then the 'net' debt drops to £65.1m.

This debt & assets are notional really. Could we really sell the stadium for £40m (or whatever its valued at) or will Tan ever get his £130m back out of day to day trading @ Cardiff City? Both are pretty unlikely but you never know and I suppose it does give some kind of snapshot of our financial standing.

That snapshot being even if we sold every last nail and tea cup we would still owe £65.1m


The Riddler made a good shot of selling everything.