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Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:11 am

As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:19 am

maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:25 am

I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:32 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:41 am

maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:11 am

Im unsure why the modern day japanese are made to aplogise, when we never expect the same off the germans.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:23 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Well they figured if they bombed Kyoto then the Japanese wouldn't surrender and in fact have a renewed vigour for the war. They were two large population centres and the idea was to kill as many civilians as possible to stop the war.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:32 am

maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Well they figured if they bombed Kyoto then the Japanese wouldn't surrender and in fact have a renewed vigour for the war. They were two large population centres and the idea was to kill as many civilians as possible to stop the war.


Hiroshima had a significant military presence and as it had been reactively untouched by the war up to that point it would be an ideal city to measure the destructive effects of the bomb.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:33 am

A necessary act.

The Japanese had no intention of surrendering and would have fought to the last.

Reduced overall casualties for all sides but more importantly ours!!

Still people in japan who deny the atrocities they committed :old:

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:22 pm

As a history teacher we study this as part of the pupils coursework assignments. There were a number of reasons the war was ended with the dropping of the bombs.The estimated number of Allied casualties in a successful invasion and occupation of Japan was in the hundreds of thousands. Experience had shown that The Japanese military would not surrender in huge numbers as had been seen in the war with Germany. By 45 the war had been dragging on for nearly six years. People wanted an end. The Allied leadership felt they had a duty to their people to end the war as quickly as possible and with as few allied casualties as possible. It was a tough choice but I believe that in 1945, with a 1945 point of view it was the correct choice. Sometimes in history it is too easy to apply a modern point of view to a particular place and time.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:25 pm

Splottblue80 wrote:As a history teacher we study this as part of the pupils coursework assignments. There were a number of reasons the war was ended with the dropping of the bombs.The estimated number of Allied casualties in a successful invasion and occupation of Japan was in the hundreds of thousands. Experience had shown that The Japanese military would not surrender in huge numbers as had been seen in the war with Germany. By 45 the war had been dragging on for nearly six years. People wanted an end. The Allied leadership felt they had a duty to their people to end the war as quickly as possible and with as few allied casualties as possible. It was a tough choice but I believe that in 1945, with a 1945 point of view it was the correct choice. Sometimes in history it is too easy to apply a modern point of view to a particular place and time.


I look at it now and still think it was the right choice.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:45 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:56 am

maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.


He has answered Neil.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:13 am

Bakedalasker wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.


He has answered Neil.


Where? Last thing he said is the latter.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:27 am

Carpe Diem wrote:I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.


General Mcarthur stated that America could have invaded Japan without a great loss of life, The Japanese had fight left in them but nothing to fight with. The Japanese did achieve one of their goals, to drive the British Empire out of Asia.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:34 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
Carpe Diem wrote:I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.


General Mcarthur stated that America could have invaded Japan without a great loss of life, The Japanese had fight left in them but nothing to fight with. The Japanese did achieve one of their goals, to drive the British Empire out of Asia.


MacArthur wanted to Nuke China during the Korean War. He was a bit of a loon.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:37 am

maccydee wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.


He has answered Neil.


Where? Last thing he said is the latter.


As you ca'nt answer i'll tell you what my opinion is. Like Carpe Diem put it they were chosen to test the destructive effects of the bomb and with your statement saying the idea was to kill as many civilians as possible, then as a civilan myself as I see that as a criminal act. OK.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:37 am

Can't believe what I'm reading. There is no excuse for using these bombs unless for something like planetary defence. The Japanese were on the back foot anyway.

Those two atomic bombs not only murdered countless of lives. But have also damaged the earth massively.

I don't want Britain to give up its Trident but I don't want Britain to use the Trident aswell.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:40 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.


He has answered Neil.


Where? Last thing he said is the latter.


As you ca'nt answer i'll tell you what my opinion is. Like Carpe Diem put it they were chosen to test the destructive effects of the bomb and with your statement saying the idea was to kill as many civilians as possible, then as a civilan myself as I see that as a criminal act. OK.


No such thing as a civilian in a World War. All employed in the war effort.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:44 am

maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.


He has answered Neil.


Where? Last thing he said is the latter.


As you ca'nt answer i'll tell you what my opinion is. Like Carpe Diem put it they were chosen to test the destructive effects of the bomb and with your statement saying the idea was to kill as many civilians as possible, then as a civilan myself as I see that as a criminal act. OK.


No such thing as a civilian in a World War. All employed in the war effort.


so these women and children hiding down the tubestations in the blitz were aiding the war effort? you've been brainwashed by the military machine, mate.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:50 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:As we celebrate VJ Day what are people's thoughts on the events that led to the end of the Second World War?

Needed? Criminal act? Give them what they deserve? All opinions welcome.


Tell me why they were dropped on these two cities, and i'll tell you what I think.


Why these two cities in what context?

Why they dropped a bomb at all or Why they chose them cities?


the latter.


Still awaiting your answer BB.


He has answered Neil.


Where? Last thing he said is the latter.


As you ca'nt answer i'll tell you what my opinion is. Like Carpe Diem put it they were chosen to test the destructive effects of the bomb and with your statement saying the idea was to kill as many civilians as possible, then as a civilan myself as I see that as a criminal act. OK.


No such thing as a civilian in a World War. All employed in the war effort.


so these women and children hiding down the tubestations in the blitz were aiding the war effort? you've been brainwashed by the military machine, mate.


The women in the daytime were making materials for the war effort, kids who hadn't been bussed away to safety probably were too.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:14 am

maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
Carpe Diem wrote:I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.


General Mcarthur stated that America could have invaded Japan without a great loss of life, The Japanese had fight left in them but nothing to fight with. The Japanese did achieve one of their goals, to drive the British Empire out of Asia.


MacArthur wanted to Nuke China during the Korean War. He was a bit of a loon.


Strategically, yes. agree anyone wishing to use an nuclear bomb is a loon but with the Chinese fighting alongside the North Koreans, Mcarthur probably felt it was a legimate use.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:33 am

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
Carpe Diem wrote:I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.


General Mcarthur stated that America could have invaded Japan without a great loss of life, The Japanese had fight left in them but nothing to fight with. The Japanese did achieve one of their goals, to drive the British Empire out of Asia.


MacArthur wanted to Nuke China during the Korean War. He was a bit of a loon.


Strategically, yes. agree anyone wishing to use an nuclear bomb is a loon but with the Chinese fighting alongside the North Koreans, Mcarthur probably felt it was a legimate use.


I would argue after 5 years of war that it's use to end the war was justified. However in the Korean War I can't see that being the case. I think it might have set things off quite badly had they used it on China.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:59 am

The estimate was 1 million casualties if America invaded Japan. Also as their Allies Britain would have needed to send in troops as well. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen because they were cities mainly built with wooden or paper materials so the impact of the A Bomb would be even more devastating.

At the time America only had 2 A bombs and that is why they ruled out a demonstration by blowing up an atoll with Japanese observers present.

Whatever your personal view on the A Bomb is it was also a brilliant piece of genius scientific engineering by using Albert Einstein's E = MC2 to harness the energy produced by splitting the atom. The Manhattan Project is a fascinating piece of history and produced other brilliant sub-atomic processes such as chain reactions and fusion.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:00 pm

maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
Carpe Diem wrote:I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.


General Mcarthur stated that America could have invaded Japan without a great loss of life, The Japanese had fight left in them but nothing to fight with. The Japanese did achieve one of their goals, to drive the British Empire out of Asia.


MacArthur wanted to Nuke China during the Korean War. He was a bit of a loon.


Strategically, yes. agree anyone wishing to use an nuclear bomb is a loon but with the Chinese fighting alongside the North Koreans, Mcarthur probably felt it was a legimate use.


I would argue after 5 years of war that it's use to end the war was justified. However in the Korean War I can't see that being the case. I think it might have set things off quite badly had they used it on China.


If say McArthur "nuked um" in 1950 would the war have lasted to 1953? Hmmmm

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:19 pm

buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
maccydee wrote:
buckleys brewery wrote:
Carpe Diem wrote:I believe the estimated loss of life to continue the war against Japan was a lot higher than the loss of Japanese life due to the bombs. Plus it's all one way then. Not nice at all but in war the focus becomes saving your lives at the expense of the enemies. The Japanese were ferocious and totally committed. Treated POW's atrociously. Started something they couldn't finish.

There's never a real winner in war but it has always happened and always will.


General Mcarthur stated that America could have invaded Japan without a great loss of life, The Japanese had fight left in them but nothing to fight with. The Japanese did achieve one of their goals, to drive the British Empire out of Asia.


MacArthur wanted to Nuke China during the Korean War. He was a bit of a loon.


Strategically, yes. agree anyone wishing to use an nuclear bomb is a loon but with the Chinese fighting alongside the North Koreans, Mcarthur probably felt it was a legimate use.


I would argue after 5 years of war that it's use to end the war was justified. However in the Korean War I can't see that being the case. I think it might have set things off quite badly had they used it on China.


If say McArthur "nuked um" in 1950 would the war have lasted to 1953? Hmmmm


Probably not but only because Russia would have got involved.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:45 pm

The thing people forget is that it was only on 9 August 1945 that the Soviet Union declared war on Japan. Within days they had gone through Manchuria like a knife through butter. They would have taken the Japanese home islands in months and have occupied it in the same way as they did Eastern Europe. The USA wanted a swift surrender - and to demonstrate to the USSR what they could do elsewhere if necessary.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:58 am

After the way they treated our prisoners of war and many of the civillians in the countries they invaded, I have no sympathy for them, they were a cruel evil empire.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:57 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:The estimate was 1 million casualties if America invaded Japan. Also as their Allies Britain would have needed to send in troops as well. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen because they were cities mainly built with wooden or paper materials so the impact of the A Bomb would be even more devastating.

At the time America only had 2 A bombs and that is why they ruled out a demonstration by blowing up an atoll with Japanese observers present.

Whatever your personal view on the A Bomb is it was also a brilliant piece of genius scientific engineering by using Albert Einstein's E = MC2 to harness the energy produced by splitting the atom. The Manhattan Project is a fascinating piece of history and produced other brilliant sub-atomic processes such as chain reactions and fusion.


No...one of the cities was hit due to bad weather. Kyoto was the main target but there were too many clouds. And obviously they didn't have the technology we have now to see through clouds and hit targets.

Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:44 am

Japan a country that still do not fully except there wrong doings. They still deny Nanking which was shocking. Japan started the war with America and the Yanks finished it with two knockout blows.