Disability benefit

Story going around in my village about a local handyman guy going down for it.

He is a twin and I gave him some work to renovate my back garden. Massive guy and he knew how to use one of those renovating machines. Fair play did a good job and got a good reputation around the village for his work.

He and his twin brother were popular guys around the village so this has come a bit of a shock. Apparently he has got away with it for a decade.

Anyone else known anyone like this?

I'm in two minds. One one hand people who fraudulently claim benefits they aren't entitled to make it harder for those that need them to get them.

However how can MPs have any moral high ground to dictate to us?

I can't stand benefit cheats. I can't stand MPs either. There's quite a lot of stuff I can't stand!

I cannot stand benefit cheats, there are genuine people out there being refused help, and these scroungers seem to get away with it all just because they are educated enough to play the system. I hope they are made to pay EVERY penny back!

I cannot stand benefit cheats, there are genuine people out there being refused help, and these scroungers seem to get away with it all just because they are educated enough to play the system. I hope they are made to pay EVERY penny back!

This today has made me wonder how many benefit cheats there are out there I might know.

I cannot stand benefit cheats, there are genuine people out there being refused help, and these scroungers seem to get away with it all just because they are educated enough to play the system. I hope they are made to pay EVERY penny back!

This today has made me wonder how many benefit cheats there are out there I might know.

I think we'd be surprised at the (high) numbers, TBH

The 'system' is played by a lot of people and this Government only go after the soft targets, many of whom are genuine in their claims

People keep banging on about benefit fraud because it is infuriating but where does it compare to other kinds of fraud in ripping off the taxpayer?

So to get some perspective, benefit fraud represents 2% of the estimated total annual fraud in the UK. Public sector fraud, which includes benefit fraud, is £20.3 billion a year, so within this category it accounts for just under 8%. The majority of this £20 billion is tax fraud which costs the economy £14 billion annually, or 69%. So we can see that both in absolute and percentage terms tax fraud is a much bigger issue than benefit fraud. In fact, out of all the categories of fraud calculated by the UK Government, benefit fraud is the second lowest. Only identity fraud which costs individuals £1.4billion a year comes below it.

You never hear people getting wound up about Tax fraud but its almost 9 times as damaging!

People keep banging on about benefit fraud because it is infuriating but where does it compare to other kinds of fraud in ripping off the taxpayer?

So to get some perspective, benefit fraud represents 2% of the estimated total annual fraud in the UK. Public sector fraud, which includes benefit fraud, is £20.3 billion a year, so within this category it accounts for just under 8%. The majority of this £20 billion is tax fraud which costs the economy £14 billion annually, or 69%. So we can see that both in absolute and percentage terms tax fraud is a much bigger issue than benefit fraud. In fact, out of all the categories of fraud calculated by the UK Government, benefit fraud is the second lowest. Only identity fraud which costs individuals £1.4billion a year comes below it.

You never hear people getting wound up about Tax fraud but its almost 9 times as damaging!

I don't think anyone is saying benefit fraud is the worst crime. Simply saying we can't stand benefit cheats. The fact there are worse types of fraud doesn't make benefit cheats any less annoying.

People keep banging on about benefit fraud because it is infuriating but where does it compare to other kinds of fraud in ripping off the taxpayer?

So to get some perspective, benefit fraud represents 2% of the estimated total annual fraud in the UK. Public sector fraud, which includes benefit fraud, is £20.3 billion a year, so within this category it accounts for just under 8%. The majority of this £20 billion is tax fraud which costs the economy £14 billion annually, or 69%. So we can see that both in absolute and percentage terms tax fraud is a much bigger issue than benefit fraud. In fact, out of all the categories of fraud calculated by the UK Government, benefit fraud is the second lowest. Only identity fraud which costs individuals £1.4billion a year comes below it.

You never hear people getting wound up about Tax fraud but its almost 9 times as damaging!

Agree with this but fraud is fraud and it all should be treated as equal.

It does amaze me how someone caught committing benefit fraud like the guy who did my garden gets a jail sentence yet there are guys out there who have managed to avoid paying tax in the millions still walking our streets.

if hes got a twin,he should have said it was him not him if you get my drift.
that's if him not him is on the fiddle as well

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

These days the floors are covered in gum and other rubbish because pesky kids are throwing rubbish out the car windows and people have no pride in the local area because the council is expected to cater to their every desire and they've become zombies spoon fed by the hardworking taxpayers of the UK.

Also, bring back national service for youngsters plus 1 year community service to restore respect in the youth of today. They'd soon find jobs if the welfare state was removed just like they used to before it existed. They'd go around cleaning windows, cars, houses, cutting grass, hedges, delivering leaflets for whatever money they could. There is no incentive for today's youth and its disgusting.

Cue to the pesky lefty teenagers/students coming on here now telling me I'm wrong trying to protect their own culture and society of entitlement.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

These days the floors are covered in gum and other rubbish because pesky kids are throwing rubbish out the car windows and people have no pride in the local area because the council is expected to cater to their every desire and they've become zombies spoon fed by the hardworking taxpayers of the UK.

Also, bring back national service for youngsters plus 1 year community service to restore respect in the youth of today. They'd soon find jobs if the welfare state was removed just like they used to before it existed. They'd go around cleaning windows, cars, houses, cutting grass, hedges, delivering leaflets for whatever money they could. There is no incentive for today's youth and its disgusting.

Cue to the pesky lefty teenagers/students coming on here now telling me I'm wrong trying to protect their own culture and society of entitlement.

I totally agree.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

These days the floors are covered in gum and other rubbish because pesky kids are throwing rubbish out the car windows and people have no pride in the local area because the council is expected to cater to their every desire and they've become zombies spoon fed by the hardworking taxpayers of the UK.

Also, bring back national service for youngsters plus 1 year community service to restore respect in the youth of today. They'd soon find jobs if the welfare state was removed just like they used to before it existed. They'd go around cleaning windows, cars, houses, cutting grass, hedges, delivering leaflets for whatever money they could. There is no incentive for today's youth and its disgusting.

Cue to the pesky lefty teenagers/students coming on here now telling me I'm wrong trying to protect their own culture and society of entitlement.

I thought you were a pesky lefty teenager when I read this lot. A more nieve statement than my 15yr old son would ever make.You wouldn't have a benefits culture if there were more proper jobs with decent living wages.I guess I'm roughly the same age as you and I'm surprised that you hold these views because from where I'm sitting the kids of today have it far tougher than we ever did.The fact is when this sort of caper is uncovered it makes national news usually,thats because its quite rare.

I thought you were a pesky lefty teenager when I read this lot. A more nieve statement than my 15yr old son would ever make.You wouldn't have a benefits culture if there were more proper jobs with decent living wages.I guess I'm roughly the same age as you and I'm surprised that you hold these views because from where I'm sitting the kids of today have it far tougher than we ever did.

Every generation claims they had it tougher than the last one. Every older generation claims its easy because they've already done it. Thats just the way it is. It's all about adaptability. As for your notion that we wouldn't have a benefits culture if we had proper jobs with decent living wages, thats nonsense. Many countries have closer to what would be regarded as living wages and still have a large welfare state. On top of that, socialism and communism fail. They create more poverty than capitalism because a strong economy provides the money to have a well off social political philosophy. This notion of a living wage with proper jobs is a utopian fallacy and capitalism isn't built on the foundations of utopian ideology, its built on the foundations of reality and reward, which is why it's worked so well, because it feeds a human's internal desire for greed and self advancement in a competitive environment.

No offence but the claptrap you've come out with is nothing more than the nonsense spouted by the likes of Natalie Bennett and is the sort of thing an 15 year old would tell his mates in high school after reading a page of Marxist claptrap. This world you strive for and fight for doesn't exist because there isn't blanket policy across the world. We live in a globalised competitive economy that allows for companies to move and in the process take jobs and livelihoods with them.

I thought you were a pesky lefty teenager when I read this lot. A more nieve statement than my 15yr old son would ever make.You wouldn't have a benefits culture if there were more proper jobs with decent living wages.I guess I'm roughly the same age as you and I'm surprised that you hold these views because from where I'm sitting the kids of today have it far tougher than we ever did.

Every generation claims they had it tougher than the last one. Every older generation claims its easy because they've already done it. Thats just the way it is. It's all about adaptability.No,what I am saying is the opposite.The kids today have got it far tougher than my generation when it comes to getting a decent job. As for your notion that we wouldn't have a benefits culture if we had proper jobs with decent living wages, thats nonsense. Many countries have closer to what would be regarded as living wages and still have a large welfare state.Give me half a dozen countries as an example. On top of that, socialism and communism fail.No argument there but so does pure capitalism or at least the idea is as outdated as communism.Most modern thinking economists will tell you its a mixture of capitalism based on a living wage and social opportunity and justice. They create more poverty than capitalismThats just pure nonsense.Social justice and communism as well as trade unions and the like was created out of the poverty caused by capitalism.Even the most right wing tory knows that left unchecked we would still be experiencing poverty on a scale not seen since the 1800's. because a strong economy provides the money to have a well off social political philosophy. This notion of a living wage with proper jobs is a utopian fallacy and capitalism isn't built on the foundations of utopian ideology, its built on the foundations of reality and reward, which is why it's worked so well, because it feeds a human's internal desire for greed and self advancement in a competitive environment. Don't kid yourself.If Tesco could get away with paying a pound an hour thats exactly what they'd do.Capitalism has no social conscience whatsoever in its purist form.

No offence but the claptrap you've come out with is nothing more than the nonsense spouted by the likes of Natalie Bennett and is the sort of thing an 15 year old would tell his mates in high school after reading a page of Marxist claptrap. I bet you just love the Daily Mail. This world you strive for and fight for doesn't exist because there isn't blanket policy across the world. We live in a globalised competitive economy that allows for companies to move and in the process take jobs and livelihoods with them.

That is so true.Just ask any worker in any asian sweat shop.Capitalism at its best.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

Right.
So what if you get cancer. Do you have the hundreds of thousands of pounds needed for Cancer treatment? Thought not.
What if you have an accident (at work, or while driving or whatever) and end up disabled and not in a position to work?
What about roads? If there is no taxation then how do you suggest we pay for them? Same for rubbish collections, policing etc. What if the person living in the house next to you cannot afford to pay the fire service to put out a fire in their home and that fire then spreads to yours?

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

These days the floors are covered in gum and other rubbish because pesky kids are throwing rubbish out the car windows and people have no pride in the local area because the council is expected to cater to their every desire and they've become zombies spoon fed by the hardworking taxpayers of the UK.

Also, bring back national service for youngsters plus 1 year community service to restore respect in the youth of today. They'd soon find jobs if the welfare state was removed just like they used to before it existed. They'd go around cleaning windows, cars, houses, cutting grass, hedges, delivering leaflets for whatever money they could. There is no incentive for today's youth and its disgusting.

Cue to the pesky lefty teenagers/students coming on here now telling me I'm wrong trying to protect their own culture and society of entitlement.

Sorry Karl Henry

I think the original post was regarding benefit fraud, & cheats. lets no loose the fact that there are millions of genuine people who need & totally rely on disability benefits, & its to these genuine, unfortunate people that fraudsters take advantage of.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

Right.
So what if you get cancer. Do you have the hundreds of thousands of pounds needed for Cancer treatment? Thought not.
What if you have an accident (at work, or while driving or whatever) and end up disabled and not in a position to work?
What about roads? If there is no taxation then how do you suggest we pay for them? Same for rubbish collections, policing etc. What if the person living in the house next to you cannot afford to pay the fire service to put out a fire in their home and that fire then spreads to yours?

Are you suggesting all of this couldn't be done privately through insurance based systems? I'm a minarchist and would prefer a much smaller state and free market economy.

I thought you were a pesky lefty teenager when I read this lot. A more nieve statement than my 15yr old son would ever make.You wouldn't have a benefits culture if there were more proper jobs with decent living wages.I guess I'm roughly the same age as you and I'm surprised that you hold these views because from where I'm sitting the kids of today have it far tougher than we ever did.

Every generation claims they had it tougher than the last one. Every older generation claims its easy because they've already done it. Thats just the way it is. It's all about adaptability.No,what I am saying is the opposite.The kids today have got it far tougher than my generation when it comes to getting a decent job. As for your notion that we wouldn't have a benefits culture if we had proper jobs with decent living wages, thats nonsense. Many countries have closer to what would be regarded as living wages and still have a large welfare state.Give me half a dozen countries as an example. On top of that, socialism and communism fail.No argument there but so does pure capitalism or at least the idea is as outdated as communism.Most modern thinking economists will tell you its a mixture of capitalism based on a living wage and social opportunity and justice. They create more poverty than capitalismThats just pure nonsense.Social justice and communism as well as trade unions and the like was created out of the poverty caused by capitalism.Even the most right wing tory knows that left unchecked we would still be experiencing poverty on a scale not seen since the 1800's. because a strong economy provides the money to have a well off social political philosophy. This notion of a living wage with proper jobs is a utopian fallacy and capitalism isn't built on the foundations of utopian ideology, its built on the foundations of reality and reward, which is why it's worked so well, because it feeds a human's internal desire for greed and self advancement in a competitive environment. Don't kid yourself.If Tesco could get away with paying a pound an hour thats exactly what they'd do.Capitalism has no social conscience whatsoever in its purist form.

No offence but the claptrap you've come out with is nothing more than the nonsense spouted by the likes of Natalie Bennett and is the sort of thing an 15 year old would tell his mates in high school after reading a page of Marxist claptrap. I bet you just love the Daily Mail. This world you strive for and fight for doesn't exist because there isn't blanket policy across the world. We live in a globalised competitive economy that allows for companies to move and in the process take jobs and livelihoods with them.

That is so true.Just ask any worker in any asian sweat shop.Capitalism at its best.

The same Asian sweatshop workers that produce your iPads and phones. The same Asian sweatshop workers that have a work ethic many Brits could only dream of. Britain is full of entitled prats who want a living put on a plate for them which is why so many immigrants are needed to keep the economy going in the first place.

And no, I don't read the daily mail. I read the economist because I don't care about the majority of rubbish in the typical papers.

Finally, we live in the real world, not a utopia. Every society since day one has had poverty whether developed or industrialised or not. This is a harsh reality of life. People adapt and survive in their environment or they don't.

Introduce a living wage and you drive out business or living costs for everyone as companies want to keep profits up. That's how a market works.

If countries like Singapore, South Korea and other countries didn't have strict capitalist systems at play your privileged backside wouldn't have cushty luxuries in life. If Germans didn't take pride in being a manufacturing nation you wouldn't have many tools to go to work with. Brits as a whole used to have a work ethic. Now its down the drain as they'd rather a cushty job in the service sector. There's a reason most products say 'Made in (Asian country)' or Made in Germany'. Get real.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

Right.
So what if you get cancer. Do you have the hundreds of thousands of pounds needed for Cancer treatment? Thought not.
What if you have an accident (at work, or while driving or whatever) and end up disabled and not in a position to work?
What about roads? If there is no taxation then how do you suggest we pay for them? Same for rubbish collections, policing etc. What if the person living in the house next to you cannot afford to pay the fire service to put out a fire in their home and that fire then spreads to yours?

Are you suggesting all of this couldn't be done privately through insurance based systems? I'm a minarchist and would prefer a much smaller state and free market economy.

What if people can't afford insurance? Or can only afford basic insurance? What happens then?

I have worked for the past five years with the unemployed in the following areas Neath, Port Talbot, Caerphilly and Bridgend.The vast majority want to work, period. What really stuck out for me was the DWP targeted those who were actually trying whilst not bothering at all with the long term scroungers who had absolutely no intention of finding work.More often than not we had people sanctioned for trivial reasons,I had a builder with 40 years experience told to apply for a manicurist's job !! I should have kept a diary it would have been a best seller.The DWP is the most incompetent, bungling waste of space imaginable.I had people who could not read being sent to my computer training course !!!! When I phoned the genius who referred these poor people more often than not I was told they could "watch".When I pointed out this was not possible this half wit asked me "well what shall I do with him them?" The list is endless I referred to the Job Centre staff as the unemployable trying to help the unemployed.If you are ever in these areas go to the following pubs:
Port Talbot G6 opened next to the JCP ...for a reason !!
Bridgend The Spoons
Caerphilly Kings Arms/Irish Tymes
Neath The Cam

I asked a senior JCP manager why they did not visit these hostelries and view for themselves, I was ignored.Probably the worst case was the 64 year old guy with no legs being told he had to apply for a job with Amazon in Swansea otherwise his benefits would stop.So yes there are many who do not want to find work but they are left alone and the ordinary Joe is hounded from pillar to post.If a middle ranking Tesco manager was asked to appraise the average JCP they would probably recommend that 70% of staff should be sacked.I have never encountered such bufoonery

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

Right.
So what if you get cancer. Do you have the hundreds of thousands of pounds needed for Cancer treatment? Thought not.
What if you have an accident (at work, or while driving or whatever) and end up disabled and not in a position to work?
What about roads? If there is no taxation then how do you suggest we pay for them? Same for rubbish collections, policing etc. What if the person living in the house next to you cannot afford to pay the fire service to put out a fire in their home and that fire then spreads to yours?

Are you suggesting all of this couldn't be done privately through insurance based systems? I'm a minarchist and would prefer a much smaller state and free market economy.

What if people can't afford insurance? Or can only afford basic insurance? What happens then?

Tough. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

Right.
So what if you get cancer. Do you have the hundreds of thousands of pounds needed for Cancer treatment? Thought not.
What if you have an accident (at work, or while driving or whatever) and end up disabled and not in a position to work?
What about roads? If there is no taxation then how do you suggest we pay for them? Same for rubbish collections, policing etc. What if the person living in the house next to you cannot afford to pay the fire service to put out a fire in their home and that fire then spreads to yours?

Are you suggesting all of this couldn't be done privately through insurance based systems? I'm a minarchist and would prefer a much smaller state and free market economy.

What if people can't afford insurance? Or can only afford basic insurance? What happens then?

Tough. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

Wow. I bet you are a barrel of laughs to be around. What about human qualities like compassion?

I'm alright Jack pull the ladder up. Disgusting.

The welfare state shouldn't exist. Neither should expenses or taxation. If you want something, bloody work for it. If you want a good community then work with the people in your local area and contribute towards it yourselves and take some pride in your local area.

These days the floors are covered in gum and other rubbish because pesky kids are throwing rubbish out the car windows and people have no pride in the local area because the council is expected to cater to their every desire and they've become zombies spoon fed by the hardworking taxpayers of the UK.

Also, bring back national service for youngsters plus 1 year community service to restore respect in the youth of today. They'd soon find jobs if the welfare state was removed just like they used to before it existed. They'd go around cleaning windows, cars, houses, cutting grass, hedges, delivering leaflets for whatever money they could. There is no incentive for today's youth and its disgusting.

Cue to the pesky lefty teenagers/students coming on here now telling me I'm wrong trying to protect their own culture and society of entitlement.

did you get anything out of doing national service?

i suppose if you lost your job and came upon hard times, if you got cancer you'd like to be charged since you need to be self reliant of course not, you benefit from the safety net provided by social services and taxation as much as anyone else on this forum, whether you like it or not.

you are a hypocrite and you need to get out a bit more instead of spouting such garbage from your key board. i don't know of a single young person who would be unemployed by choice. taxation supports miserable old bastards like you, aswell.

I thought you were a pesky lefty teenager when I read this lot. A more nieve statement than my 15yr old son would ever make.You wouldn't have a benefits culture if there were more proper jobs with decent living wages.I guess I'm roughly the same age as you and I'm surprised that you hold these views because from where I'm sitting the kids of today have it far tougher than we ever did.

Every generation claims they had it tougher than the last one. Every older generation claims its easy because they've already done it. Thats just the way it is. It's all about adaptability.No,what I am saying is the opposite.The kids today have got it far tougher than my generation when it comes to getting a decent job. As for your notion that we wouldn't have a benefits culture if we had proper jobs with decent living wages, thats nonsense. Many countries have closer to what would be regarded as living wages and still have a large welfare state.Give me half a dozen countries as an example. On top of that, socialism and communism fail.No argument there but so does pure capitalism or at least the idea is as outdated as communism.Most modern thinking economists will tell you its a mixture of capitalism based on a living wage and social opportunity and justice. They create more poverty than capitalismThats just pure nonsense.Social justice and communism as well as trade unions and the like was created out of the poverty caused by capitalism.Even the most right wing tory knows that left unchecked we would still be experiencing poverty on a scale not seen since the 1800's. because a strong economy provides the money to have a well off social political philosophy. This notion of a living wage with proper jobs is a utopian fallacy and capitalism isn't built on the foundations of utopian ideology, its built on the foundations of reality and reward, which is why it's worked so well, because it feeds a human's internal desire for greed and self advancement in a competitive environment. Don't kid yourself.If Tesco could get away with paying a pound an hour thats exactly what they'd do.Capitalism has no social conscience whatsoever in its purist form.

No offence but the claptrap you've come out with is nothing more than the nonsense spouted by the likes of Natalie Bennett and is the sort of thing an 15 year old would tell his mates in high school after reading a page of Marxist claptrap. I bet you just love the Daily Mail. This world you strive for and fight for doesn't exist because there isn't blanket policy across the world. We live in a globalised competitive economy that allows for companies to move and in the process take jobs and livelihoods with them.

That is so true.Just ask any worker in any asian sweat shop.Capitalism at its best.

The same Asian sweatshop workers that produce your iPads and phones. The same Asian sweatshop workers that have a work ethic many Brits could only dream of. Britain is full of entitled prats who want a living put on a plate for them which is why so many immigrants are needed to keep the economy going in the first place.

And no, I don't read the daily mail. I read the economist because I don't care about the majority of rubbish in the typical papers.

Finally, we live in the real world, not a utopia. Every society since day one has had poverty whether developed or industrialised or not. This is a harsh reality of life. People adapt and survive in their environment or they don't.

Introduce a living wage and you drive out business or living costs for everyone as companies want to keep profits up. That's how a market works.

If countries like Singapore, South Korea and other countries didn't have strict capitalist systems at play your privileged backside wouldn't have cushty luxuries in life. If Germans didn't take pride in being a manufacturing nation you wouldn't have many tools to go to work with. Brits as a whole used to have a work ethic. Now its down the drain as they'd rather a cushty job in the service sector. There's a reason most products say 'Made in (Asian country)' or Made in Germany'. Get real.

I thought about answering your post line for line again but as its obvious that you will only address the points that suit you so theres no point.Are you a failed businessman or something.At the very least you seem to be the last living Brit that advocates slavery.Your missing the point completely.I find it ironic that in your world our online conversation/disscusion/arguement could not take place because neither of us could afford a laptop or the internet and come to think of it there would be no point of the PC companies or internet providers existing because no fucker could afford them.Now it may have escaped your righteous judgement but for capitalism to work properly it needs CONSUMERS that can afford to buy the goods.Que,paying people enough for them to spend and there you have it.Its all about balance.

I think the original post was regarding benefit fraud, & cheats. lets no loose the fact that there are millions of genuine people who need & totally rely on disability benefits, & its to these genuine, unfortunate people that fraudsters take advantage of.

Very true Rick.

Glad to say I have never needed such a benefit and hopefully never will. I'm fortunate enough I can afford critical illness insurance but find it comforting that there is this disability benefit out there. For me those that abuse or threaten this benefit deserve what they get when caught.

did you get anything out of doing national service?

Didn't do it but on reflection think I and many others would have benefitted from it.

i suppose if you lost your job and came upon hard times

Save up for a rainy day rather than wasting money on things you cant afford. Amazing how people in other countries do it. It wont happen in Britain though because of the live for today attitude. Far too many like binge drinking with no care for their future which is why so many little chavettes are popping out babies like vending machines.

if you got cancer you'd like to be charged since you need to be self reliant of course not, you benefit from the safety net provided by social services and taxation as much as anyone else on this forum, whether you like it or not.

If I got cancer, I'd go private in another country where standards are vastly higher than on the NHS, which is struggling to afford enough beds or nurses, let alone adequate treatment. The NHS is struggling because of the burden on the public purse due to the inflated welfare state but don't let facts get in the way of your entitled outlook.

Wow. I bet you are a barrel of laughs to be around.

Yes I am, not that you'd know, of course, not knowing me.

What about human qualities like compassion?

Why should others be paid for? This just creates a society of layabouts which then need to be funded for by the economy. Its no surprise that such countries are in massive amounts of debt and will eventually lose the lot of it leading to poverty. Do you honestly think the NHS is going to be around forever because if you do then you are deluding yourself. Labour learnt that the hard way which is why the PFI deals exist in the first place.

I'm alright Jack pull the ladder up. Disgusting.

Spare us the emotional nonsense. Humanity has always been about survival of the fittest. Just because the environment is different and there are different rules at play, it doesn't mean certain people should get let off lightly. Why should hard working taxpayers of this country go to work every morning and struggle so that people can sit on their backsides or waltz off down the pub at lunch time to drink away that money? Keep paying your taxes for such people if you like, more fool you. It's only infringing upon your quality of life whilst places like Prague put places like London to shame - you know, that country with a 15% tax rate, low cost transport and a higher safety rating. You fail to realise that the inflated public sector and these leeches are one of the reasons the country is struggling to advance at the rate it should, given the current economic climate in the UK. I don't really care. Already the moronic British government has driven IT and Tech investment towards Eastern Europe. Keep it coming.

I thought about answering your post line for line again but as its obvious that you will only address the points that suit you so theres no point.

So just as you have done then. Pot, kettle....

At the very least you seem to be the last living Brit that advocates slavery.

Are you after an Oscar for the best drama performance of 2015 or something? Good grief. Comparing laissez-faire capitalism to slavery just shows how little you actually know. They are worlds apart. One leads to civil war as was the case in America. The other leads to economic prosperity and a thriving insurance based health care system that puts the NHS to shame i.e. countries like Singapore and France.

Now it may have escaped your righteous judgement but for capitalism to work properly it needs CONSUMERS that can afford to buy the goods.Que,paying people enough for them to spend and there you have it.Its all about balance.

It also needs self determination and desire with an end goal. Jobs wouldn't have started Apple if he didn't believe he could maximise profit revenues by doing so. Most businesses wouldn't have started. Capitalism and people's internal desire for self achievement work hand in hand. Also, consumers buy things because they need them or its convenient. You're all more than welcome to grow your spuds, carrots and apples. Lets see how you do with that.

You have no idea what you're talking about. A culture of entitlement and laziness is slowly killing Britain and the majority of Brits are too stupid to see it due to not being able to live a modest lifestyle within their means. Keep deluding yourself whilst paying your tax into the coffers. More fool you for being made mugs whilst politicians smugly laugh at you.

Fair dos I disagree with you but you write very eloquently. You make some excellent points but the system has to be in place to help those that truly need it. It's unfortunate that so many take the piss out of the system meaning so much is wasted.

Didn't do it but on reflection think I and many others would have benefitted from it.

well i fully expect you to be first in the queue then!

the reality is that because you are a hypocrite, you will be sitting on your fat arse whining about this generation 'never having it so easy', and would move heaven and earth to avoid doing community service for a year.

you aint kidding me, nincompoop.