Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 7:44 pm
I find it ironic that days removed from VE Day which signalled the final defeat of Germany there are many bemoaning our electoral system as undemocratic. This electoral system has served our country for many Years.
One alternative is Proportional Representation. Under this system Hitler rose from obscurity by gaining power in the Reichstag. With strong government he could have been dealt with before he raised his influence through intimidation and such like able to do this by gaining power from within resulting in the enabling act giving him pretty much dictatorial powers. However this was possible as he was initially part of the political process due to PR. You might say that there is no chance this would happen in the UK. However in 2010 the BNP gained 2% of the vote. This would have entitled them to MPs under PR. Also look no further than France where in the next elections the French National Front could even have the president. Throughout Europe under PR the right wing are gaining power. Be careful what you wish for. It wouldn't even help the left. This election under PR the Tories would have 242 MPs and UKIP 82. Enough for a centre right / right majority.
One alternative is Proportional Representation. Under this system Hitler rose from obscurity by gaining power in the Reichstag. With strong government he could have been dealt with before he raised his influence through intimidation and such like able to do this by gaining power from within resulting in the enabling act giving him pretty much dictatorial powers. However this was possible as he was initially part of the political process due to PR. You might say that there is no chance this would happen in the UK. However in 2010 the BNP gained 2% of the vote. This would have entitled them to MPs under PR. Also look no further than France where in the next elections the French National Front could even have the president. Throughout Europe under PR the right wing are gaining power. Be careful what you wish for. It wouldn't even help the left. This election under PR the Tories would have 242 MPs and UKIP 82. Enough for a centre right / right majority.
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 8:14 pm
Are you real.
Just beacuse the potential outcome of a PR system doesnt fit your political stance, is no reason at all to bemoan it.
By your reasoning if PR benefitted left wing politics then presumably you are saying it would be fine?
This is exactly what is wrong with most political debate now is that everyone seeks to protect their stance at all costs with no thought for "the right thing for the people". Its all about party politics.
Surely the fairest system is if "a party" get 10% of the votes, they should have 10% of the seats. Simple.
Who or what that party is, BNP, UKIP, Islamic, right or left, is irrelevant when deciding the "system".
The only thing that matters when looking at the system is that it is fair and representative of the people.
If it so happens that some of the people are a bit racist, or some even hate the UK, they should still have a voice in parliament, surely that is the point of democracy!!
Just beacuse the potential outcome of a PR system doesnt fit your political stance, is no reason at all to bemoan it.
By your reasoning if PR benefitted left wing politics then presumably you are saying it would be fine?
This is exactly what is wrong with most political debate now is that everyone seeks to protect their stance at all costs with no thought for "the right thing for the people". Its all about party politics.
Surely the fairest system is if "a party" get 10% of the votes, they should have 10% of the seats. Simple.
Who or what that party is, BNP, UKIP, Islamic, right or left, is irrelevant when deciding the "system".
The only thing that matters when looking at the system is that it is fair and representative of the people.
If it so happens that some of the people are a bit racist, or some even hate the UK, they should still have a voice in parliament, surely that is the point of democracy!!
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 8:31 pm
Most PR systems say you have to have a minimum of 5% of the vote to get representation.
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 8:31 pm
Kraybald wrote:Are you real.
Just beacuse the potential outcome of a PR system doesnt fit your political stance, is no reason at all to bemoan it.
By your reasoning if PR benefitted left wing politics then presumably you are saying it would be fine?
This is exactly what is wrong with most political debate now is that everyone seeks to protect their stance at all costs with no thought for "the right thing for the people". Its all about party politics.
Surely the fairest system is if "a party" get 10% of the votes, they should have 10% of the seats. Simple.
Who or what that party is, BNP, UKIP, Islamic, right or left, is irrelevant when deciding the "system".
The only thing that matters when looking at the system is that it is fair and representative of the people.
If it so happens that some of the people are a bit racist, or some even hate the UK, they should still have a voice in parliament, surely that is the point of democracy!!
Not at all. The left now want PR as the election went against them. My points are the problems of PR and also it wouldn't have helped their agenda anyway.
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 8:36 pm
I thought it was UKIP FANS who now want PR.
about as left as Mussolini
about as left as Mussolini
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 8:53 pm
eddiep wrote:I thought it was UKIP FANS who now want PR.
about as left as Mussolini
The left are very much wanting it. They hate that the Tories have a majority with 37% of the vote.
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 10:12 pm
maccydee wrote:eddiep wrote:I thought it was UKIP FANS who now want PR.
about as left as Mussolini
The left are very much wanting it. They hate that the Tories have a majority with 37% of the vote.
But they forget to mention that he past labour government got it with 35% of the vote in 2005!!! Pmsl
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 10:31 pm
It's not just the left who want it,UKIP supporters want it too.
It is just the fairest and most democratic way of voting.
It is just the fairest and most democratic way of voting.
Re: Lefties careful what you wish for
Sun May 10, 2015 10:41 pm
Kraybald wrote:Are you real.
Just beacuse the potential outcome of a PR system doesnt fit your political stance, is no reason at all to bemoan it.
By your reasoning if PR benefitted left wing politics then presumably you are saying it would be fine?
This is exactly what is wrong with most political debate now is that everyone seeks to protect their stance at all costs with no thought for "the right thing for the people". Its all about party politics.
Surely the fairest system is if "a party" get 10% of the votes, they should have 10% of the seats. Simple.
Who or what that party is, BNP, UKIP, Islamic, right or left, is irrelevant when deciding the "system".
The only thing that matters when looking at the system is that it is fair and representative of the people.
If it so happens that some of the people are a bit racist, or some even hate the UK, they should still have a voice in parliament, surely that is the point of democracy!!
Well said
