Fecking Tories - here they go

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100608/tu ... 6b408.html

So much for a ring fenced NHS

You can see where this will lead, hospitals will do all they can to avoid readmitting emergency patients by either letting them die first or recreating what's known as bed-blocking and not letting them out in the first place with other patients being abandoned on trollies in A & E for hours on end.

The Tories and the NHS just don't mix never have never will.

So much for a ring fenced NHS

You can see where this will lead, hospitals will do all they can to avoid readmitting emergency patients by either letting them die first or recreating what's known as bed-blocking and not letting them out in the first place with other patients being abandoned on trollies in A & E for hours on end.

The Tories and the NHS just don't mix never have never will.

if this policy had been in place in the past it would have affected myself many times. I have a problem with Kidney stones which flare up from time to time. Anyone else who has them can confirm they are f*cking painful. Anyway on several occasions I have been admitted with unbearable pain, however on one of those occasions the hospital were unable to operate to remove the stone due to the lack of urology staff as those that were on duty were busy carrying out operations on people with prostate cancer, this I can understand and when it was explained to me I agreed to have my pain managed by drugs until such time as a space in the operating theatre was available. Anyway I was kept in under pain management for 5 days and then sent home. However within another three days was back in because again the pain became unbearable and this time the operation was carried out. Under these new rules I would not get my operation for a month - f*cking crazy innit. Imagine if something more clinically serious than kidney stones had occurred. - like I said fecking Tories.

Quite right Tony.

The Tories opposed the formation of the NHS back in the 1940's and remain ideologically against it.

The old adage will soon apply under this government - don't get old, don't get sick, etc., etc.

So much for a ring fenced NHS

You can see where this will lead, hospitals will do all they can to avoid readmitting emergency patients by either letting them die first or recreating what's known as bed-blocking and not letting them out in the first place with other patients being abandoned on trollies in A & E for hours on end.

The Tories and the NHS just don't mix never have never will.

if this policy had been in place in the past it would have affected myself many times. I have a problem with Kidney stones which flare up from time to time. Anyone else who has them can confirm they are f*cking painful. Anyway on several occasions I have been admitted with unbearable pain, however on one of those occasions the hospital were unable to operate to remove the stone due to the lack of urology staff as those that were on duty were busy carrying out operations on people with prostate cancer, this I can understand and when it was explained to me I agreed to have my pain managed by drugs until such time as a space in the operating theatre was available. Anyway I was kept in under pain management for 5 days and then sent home. However within another three days was back in because again the pain became unbearable and this time the operation was carried out. Under these new rules I would not get my operation for a month - f*cking crazy innit. Imagine if something more clinically serious than kidney stones had occurred. - like I said fecking Tories.

Mate of mine had kidney stones and he was in a right state and had terrible trouble getting the surgery so you have my full sympathy.

I fully agree with your point and this Tory policy is just backdoor cuts.

Can't people see that this is to encourage hospitals to get it right first time and not to rush people through and kick them out. It wont effect patients, they will still be readmitted, its just that the hospitals wont get apid if they dont get it right first time.

Its like taking your car to garage to have a steering fault fixed and they charge you. If you had to take it back three times in a month for the same problem you'd tell them to take a hike you weren't paying again.

Can't people see that this is to encourage hospitals to get it right first time and not to rush people through and kick them out. It wont effect patients, they will still be readmitted, its just that the hospitals wont get apid if they dont get it right first time.

Its like taking your car to garage to have a steering fault fixed and they charge you. If you had to take it back three times in a month for the same problem you'd tell them to take a hike you weren't paying again.

dont talk such bollocks man. Their playing politics with peoples lives. Its not a f*cking car we are talking about here it could be life and death to somebody maybe one day your life or someone you love.

Can't people see that this is to encourage hospitals to get it right first time and not to rush people through and kick them out. It wont effect patients, they will still be readmitted, its just that the hospitals wont get apid if they dont get it right first time.

Its like taking your car to garage to have a steering fault fixed and they charge you. If you had to take it back three times in a month for the same problem you'd tell them to take a hike you weren't paying again.

dont talk such bollocks man. Their playing politics with peoples lives. Its not a f*cking car we are talking about here it could be life and death to somebody maybe one day your life or someone you love.

Like I said above it snot to do with getting treatment or not, its about whether the hospital get paid for it or not.

Can't people see that this is to encourage hospitals to get it right first time and not to rush people through and kick them out. It wont effect patients, they will still be readmitted, its just that the hospitals wont get apid if they dont get it right first time.

Its like taking your car to garage to have a steering fault fixed and they charge you. If you had to take it back three times in a month for the same problem you'd tell them to take a hike you weren't paying again.

dont talk such bollocks man. Their playing politics with peoples lives. Its not a f*cking car we are talking about here it could be life and death to somebody maybe one day your life or someone you love.

Like I said above it snot to do with getting treatment or not, its about whether the hospital get paid for it or not.

It's about cutting funding to the health service and one day it may very well affect you or someone you love - I hope it does not. Maybe if it does it will open your eyes as to what is really going on.

Can't people see that this is to encourage hospitals to get it right first time and not to rush people through and kick them out. It wont effect patients, they will still be readmitted, its just that the hospitals wont get apid if they dont get it right first time.

Its like taking your car to garage to have a steering fault fixed and they charge you. If you had to take it back three times in a month for the same problem you'd tell them to take a hike you weren't paying again.

dont talk such bollocks man. Their playing politics with peoples lives. Its not a f*cking car we are talking about here it could be life and death to somebody maybe one day your life or someone you love.

in fairness Cayo is right, what this articel is saying that the tories are telling hospitals to get it right first time. under labour they could have many chances to f**k it up and still get paid. under the tories they have to make sure they get it right or they won't get paid for secondary treatments, even though they still have to provide it.

They have also announced today that they are scrapping a lot of targets so that NHS staff can concentrate on providing a service rather than paperwork. This will also have the effect of reducing the number of administrators required in the NHS which currently is sucking money out of the service side of the organisation.

Can't people see that this is to encourage hospitals to get it right first time and not to rush people through and kick them out. It wont effect patients, they will still be readmitted, its just that the hospitals wont get apid if they dont get it right first time.

Its like taking your car to garage to have a steering fault fixed and they charge you. If you had to take it back three times in a month for the same problem you'd tell them to take a hike you weren't paying again.

dont talk such bollocks man. Their playing politics with peoples lives. Its not a f*cking car we are talking about here it could be life and death to somebody maybe one day your life or someone you love.

in fairness Cayo is right, what this articel is saying that the tories are telling hospitals to get it right first time. under labour they could have many chances to f**k it up and still get paid. under the tories they have to make sure they get it right or they won't get paid for secondary treatments, even though they still have to provide it.

Like I said we are dealing with human life here not f*cking chunks of metal. Life is just not that simple mate. Earlier in the thread I gave one of my experiences of the NHS and under those circumstances which I suggest occur on a daily basis throughout the NHS I would not have received subsequent care for 30 days or are you suggesting the NHS would pay for such care out of fresh air. With all due respect your talking through your ass. I repeat it's all about cutting the NHS budget which the Tories promised in their manifesto would be ringfenced - f*cking liars and this is just the beginning. Like I said during the election campaign to all you people who voted for the Tories be careful what you vote for because you will certainly get it and all you Liberals I bet you feel sick now you have let these fuckers in via the back door. God help us all

in fairness Cayo is right, what this articel is saying that the tories are telling hospitals to get it right first time. under labour they could have many chances to f**k it up and still get paid. under the tories they have to make sure they get it right or they won't get paid for secondary treatments, even though they still have to provide it.

No-one is against any Government who seeks to improve standards within the NHS.

However, when those improvements amount to removing funding (i.e. a fine which is imposed on emergency readmissions) then given their previous on the NHS we must assume that the Tories are up to their old tricks already and lied to the electorate about ring fencing the NHS budjet.

Also by scrapping targets those who work within the NHS suddenly have no incentives and waiting lists are bound to grow just like they do under every Tory Government as funding is cut by more and more backdoor methods.

and all you Liberals I bet you feel sick now you have let these fuckers in via the back door. God help us all

I voted Lib/Dem and feeling sick doesn't begin to discribe it. The only good side is at the next election the Lib/Dems will pay a huge price and will be wiped out as a political party.

Tony we have our work cut out here to teach the young and those with no knowledge of the real world, they will have to learn for themselves like we did that what the Tories say is not what they do. Until it affects them personally we are talking on deaf ears mate. We are trying to preach to the converted they are like the sheep who fell for the propaganda of Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They had to learn the hard way and so will the young and those so far untouched by the lunacy of the Tories. They will touch upon many peoples lives I can assure you and it will not be in a good way.

and all you Liberals I bet you feel sick now you have let these fuckers in via the back door. God help us all

I voted Lib/Dem and feeling sick doesn't begin to discribe it. The only good side is at the next election the Lib/Dems will pay a huge price and will be wiped out as a political party.

Aye the Lib Dems have sold their souls to sniff a little bit of power - f*cking traitors to their cause they are. They will not be forgiven and theres only one place their votes will go.

Tony we have our work cut out here to teach the young and those with no knowledge of the real world, they will have to learn for themselves like we did that what the Tories say is not what they do. Until it affects them personally we are talking on deaf ears mate. We are trying to preach to the converted they are like the sheep who fell for the propaganda of Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They had to learn the hard way and so will the young and those so far untouched by the lunacy of the Tories. They will touch upon many peoples lives I can assure you and it will not be in a good way.

IHA I totally agree personal experience puts a completely different light on things. I have suffered with several medical conditons which first came to light in 1991. To say the NHS at that point (which by then had been under Tory management for 12 years) was a shambles is being very kind in the extreme.

One of the above posters mentioned hospital managers, well I can tell him hospital managers were introduced by the previous Conservative Government. Back then if you required just a normal X-Ray (which are done routinely in A & E now) the request would first have to go before a 'manager' who could over rule the consultant on the grounds of cost never mind your personal need which they did all the time. And that happened for every blood test, scan, drug, operation or admission into hospital.

This left millions of patients like me in limbo and it took 3 years to get a diagnoses by which time I had already developed diabetes and lost 90% function in my pancreas. That resulted in me spending nearly 10 months in hospital between 1991-96.

From 1997 everything changed, I had regular check ups I receive all the drugs I need to keep me alive and since 1997 I have only been in hospital once in 2005. I can honestly say hand on heart that the difference between 1991 and 2010 couldn't be more stark and if people really want to go back to that, then frankly they need their heads checking (although they won't get it done on the NHS )

Tony we have our work cut out here to teach the young and those with no knowledge of the real world, they will have to learn for themselves like we did that what the Tories say is not what they do. Until it affects them personally we are talking on deaf ears mate. We are trying to preach to the converted they are like the sheep who fell for the propaganda of Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They had to learn the hard way and so will the young and those so far untouched by the lunacy of the Tories. They will touch upon many peoples lives I can assure you and it will not be in a good way.

IHA I totally agree personal experience puts a completely different light on things. I have suffered with several medical conditons which first came to light in 1991. To say the NHS at that point (which by then had been under Tory management for 12 years) was a shambles is being very kind in the extreme.

One of the above posters mentioned hospital managers, well I can tell him hospital managers were introduced by the previous Conservative Government. Back then if you required just a normal X-Ray (which are done routinely in A & E now) the request would first have to go before a 'manager' who could over rule the consultant on the grounds of cost never mind your personal need which they did all the time. And that happened for every blood test, scan, drug, operation or admission into hospital.

This left millions of patients like me in limbo and it took 3 years to get a diagnoses by which time I had already developed diabetes and lost 90% function in my pancreas. That resulted in me spending nearly 10 months in hospital between 1991-96.

From 1997 everything changed, I had regular check ups I receive all the drugs I need to keep me alive and since 1997 I have only been in hospital once in 2005. I can honestly say hand on heart that the difference between 1991 and 2010 couldn't be more stark and if people really want to go back to that, then frankly they need their heads checking (although they won't get it done on the NHS )

Theres nothing like real life experiences to give one some clarity of thought

Tony we have our work cut out here to teach the young and those with no knowledge of the real world, they will have to learn for themselves like we did that what the Tories say is not what they do. Until it affects them personally we are talking on deaf ears mate. We are trying to preach to the converted they are like the sheep who fell for the propaganda of Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They had to learn the hard way and so will the young and those so far untouched by the lunacy of the Tories. They will touch upon many peoples lives I can assure you and it will not be in a good way.

IHA I totally agree personal experience puts a completely different light on things. I have suffered with several medical conditons which first came to light in 1991. To say the NHS at that point (which by then had been under Tory management for 12 years) was a shambles is being very kind in the extreme.

One of the above posters mentioned hospital managers, well I can tell him hospital managers were introduced by the previous Conservative Government. Back then if you required just a normal X-Ray (which are done routinely in A & E now) the request would first have to go before a 'manager' who could over rule the consultant on the grounds of cost never mind your personal need which they did all the time. And that happened for every blood test, scan, drug, operation or admission into hospital.

This left millions of patients like me in limbo and it took 3 years to get a diagnoses by which time I had already developed diabetes and lost 90% function in my pancreas. That resulted in me spending nearly 10 months in hospital between 1991-96.

From 1997 everything changed, I had regular check ups I receive all the drugs I need to keep me alive and since 1997 I have only been in hospital once in 2005. I can honestly say hand on heart that the difference between 1991 and 2010 couldn't be more stark and if people really want to go back to that, then frankly they need their heads checking (although they won't get it done on the NHS )

Tony

I fully sympathise with your problems. These sort of things shoudl never happen and of course we shouln't return to bad practice.

However you cannot just take one case and say that this covers everyone. For example my wife was diagnosed with Diabetes in the 90's and generally had good treatment from the NHS in that time. I would however never say from this that all was right with the NHS. I had friends who had good experiences and those who didn't

Similarly I have heard of people who like yourself have had good treatment in recent years and others who have problems.

My wife has been in hospital for a period of over a year since 2001 at four different hospitals since 2001. She has also had many out patient appointments and is still under the care of several different departments.

She has received some very good treatment over this time. But there has also been some very poor practice. All in the garden was not rosy under Labour.

To be honest I don't know enough about this proposal not to pay hopsitals if patients are readmitted on an emergency basis withing 30 days, although one thing I did see was that hopsitals will now be given funding so that they can take responsibility for a patents care for the first 30 days after they are discharged from hospital so perhaps iti is not as black and white as it seems

I alos note that the NHS Confederation which represents most NHS Trusts and the Patients Association bot seem to have welcomed this proposal. Perhaps they know more than we do?

Regards

Elwood

Tony we have our work cut out here to teach the young and those with no knowledge of the real world, they will have to learn for themselves like we did that what the Tories say is not what they do. Until it affects them personally we are talking on deaf ears mate. We are trying to preach to the converted they are like the sheep who fell for the propaganda of Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They had to learn the hard way and so will the young and those so far untouched by the lunacy of the Tories. They will touch upon many peoples lives I can assure you and it will not be in a good way.

You criticise someone comparing patients to a car and now you compare this government to Hitler and the 3rd reich????

Pots and Kettle spring to mind.

I fully understand your feeliings about the NHS.

However as you may see from my reply to Tony both the NHS Confederation and the Patients Association have welcomed this new proposal.

I don't know enough about it myself. Perhaps everyone would benefit by looking into the background first before going off half cock?

Oh and incidentally didn't you find what the last lot did was often different from what they said???

So much for a ring fenced NHS

You can see where this will lead, hospitals will do all they can to avoid readmitting emergency patients by either letting them die first or recreating what's known as bed-blocking and not letting them out in the first place with other patients being abandoned on trollies in A & E for hours on end.

The Tories and the NHS just don't mix never have never will.

Seems I was the only one who read the article throughout - seems to make sense to me.

And as for blaming the 'effing' Tories, the socialists have run up a TRILLION pound debt. Are you really that naive to think Labour wouldn't be doing exactly the same ? When they said they wouldn't start cutting public expenditure straight away, did it for a moment cross your mind they were prepared to say anything to stay in power.

50% of those who work in Wales, are paid by the taxpayer. So do a simple calculation. If you're working in the public sector and getting £15k pa, and your wife works in the private sector, gets paid £15k. She will pay prob £3k pa in tax. you both will pay £1k pa in Council tax. That's £4k. Where does the other £11k per annum come from to pay your wage? Corporation tax, and VAT. that's it.

The Socialists have turned this country into a basket case. Everyone is going to find that out soon.

4 weeks in and thr tories are showing their old true colours.Agree with some of the comments about the improvement in the health service over recent years. Under the last tory government my old man spent a night in the airing cupboard because they did'nt have enough beds, 43 years down the pit & 90% dust & he spends his final days in an airing cupboard! I hope Thatcher dies screaming, the evil bitch.Cameron is singing the same song as his predessesors, they could'nt give a f**k for Joe average.

Tony we have our work cut out here to teach the young and those with no knowledge of the real world, they will have to learn for themselves like we did that what the Tories say is not what they do. Until it affects them personally we are talking on deaf ears mate. We are trying to preach to the converted they are like the sheep who fell for the propaganda of Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They had to learn the hard way and so will the young and those so far untouched by the lunacy of the Tories. They will touch upon many peoples lives I can assure you and it will not be in a good way.

You criticise someone comparing patients to a car and now you compare this government to Hitler and the 3rd reich????

Pots and Kettle spring to mind.

I fully understand your feeliings about the NHS.

However as you may see from my reply to Tony both the NHS Confederation and the Patients Association have welcomed this new proposal.

I don't know enough about it myself. Perhaps everyone would benefit by looking into the background first before going off half cock?

Oh and incidentally didn't you find what the last lot did was often different from what they said???

I am merely pointing out that the people of Germany behaved like sheep and fell for the bullshit of Hitler and his chums and that the ordinary people of this country shouldn't do likewise and fall for the bullshit of Mr cameron and his slimy pals who only look after their own. Personal experience has taught me not to believe anything from such bodies as confederations and associations many of whose leaders are taking it either in the backpocket or up the arse from slimey right wing politicians.

No need to look into any background mate the people now in charge of our country were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and wont give a f**k about ordinary Joe. Like I said I am a man of senior years and have seen many Tory governments and I speak from personal experiences.

So much for a ring fenced NHS

You can see where this will lead, hospitals will do all they can to avoid readmitting emergency patients by either letting them die first or recreating what's known as bed-blocking and not letting them out in the first place with other patients being abandoned on trollies in A & E for hours on end.

The Tories and the NHS just don't mix never have never will.

Seems I was the only one who read the article throughout - seems to make sense to me.

And as for blaming the 'effing' Tories, the socialists have run up a TRILLION pound debt. Are you really that naive to think Labour wouldn't be doing exactly the same ? When they said they wouldn't start cutting public expenditure straight away, did it for a moment cross your mind they were prepared to say anything to stay in power.

50% of those who work in Wales, are paid by the taxpayer. So do a simple calculation. If you're working in the public sector and getting £15k pa, and your wife works in the private sector, gets paid £15k. She will pay prob £3k pa in tax. you both will pay £1k pa in Council tax. That's £4k. Where does the other £11k per annum come from to pay your wage? Corporation tax, and VAT. that's it.

The Socialists have turned this country into a basket case. Everyone is going to find that out soon.

I can guarantee you one thing with the Tories in power there will soon be far less money in the public purse after they finish slashing public spending which will lead to Public service Job cuts which inevitabley leads to less tax and NI coming into the public purse and less disposable income for those shoved on the dole which will eventually lead to less spending in the private sector which will lead to cuts in Jobs in the private sector which will lead to yet higher dole queues and lower tax revenue and less spending and more cuts and less Hospital beds less doctors less police more crime more illness blah dee blah dee blah. Be happy if you voted Tory you got what you voted for and be gutted if you voted Lib Dem coz your gonna get more than what you bargained for. You can talk all the bullshit you want mate but I am not for the converting I seen it all before.

The words double dip spring to mind!

The Tories are again up to old tricks under a new mask - Liberal Cons!!!
The Libs are the only ones who will lose out from this.

The NHS and Education has never been so well funded and generally (I said generally) have made vast strides forward. Now this will stop and a sow decline will occur.

Clegg says we will not return to the mistakes of thatcher, I'll leave you to decide!

So much for a ring fenced NHS

You can see where this will lead, hospitals will do all they can to avoid readmitting emergency patients by either letting them die first or recreating what's known as bed-blocking and not letting them out in the first place with other patients being abandoned on trollies in A & E for hours on end.

The Tories and the NHS just don't mix never have never will.

Seems I was the only one who read the article throughout - seems to make sense to me.

And as for blaming the 'effing' Tories, the socialists have run up a TRILLION pound debt. Are you really that naive to think Labour wouldn't be doing exactly the same ? When they said they wouldn't start cutting public expenditure straight away, did it for a moment cross your mind they were prepared to say anything to stay in power.

50% of those who work in Wales, are paid by the taxpayer. So do a simple calculation. If you're working in the public sector and getting £15k pa, and your wife works in the private sector, gets paid £15k. She will pay prob £3k pa in tax. you both will pay £1k pa in Council tax. That's £4k. Where does the other £11k per annum come from to pay your wage? Corporation tax, and VAT. that's it.

The Socialists have turned this country into a basket case. Everyone is going to find that out soon.

I can guarantee you one thing with the Tories in power there will soon be far less money in the public purse after they finish slashing public spending which will lead to Public service Job cuts which inevitabley leads to less tax and NI coming into the public purse and less disposable income for those shoved on the dole which will eventually lead to less spending in the private sector which will lead to cuts in Jobs in the private sector which will lead to yet higher dole queues and lower tax revenue and less spending and more cuts and less Hospital beds less doctors less police more crime more illness blah dee blah dee blah. Be happy if you voted Tory you got what you voted for and be gutted if you voted Lib Dem coz your gonna get more than what you bargained for. You can talk all the bullshit you want mate but I am not for the converting I seen it all before.

You talk about 'public services' as if it really doesn't matter how much of my money they squander [waste]. I'll tell you this, and it isn't bullshit - there are a lot of hardworking people in the NHS. There are also a lot of lazy sods, and I don't include 'management'. I've sat in casualty watching half a dozen 'angels' sitting on their fat arses doing diddlypip. They know no-one can criticise them, and daren't do so.

I have three members of my immediate family who work in the NHS and I can tell you there is nobody in the public sector who work harder for their money oops "your money" than doctors and nurses and particularily in a casualty department your talking through your arse or is it your arse pocket

You criticise someone comparing patients to a car and now you compare this government to Hitler and the 3rd reich????

Pots and Kettle spring to mind.

I fully understand your feeliings about the NHS.

However as you may see from my reply to Tony both the NHS Confederation and the Patients Association have welcomed this new proposal.

I don't know enough about it myself. Perhaps everyone would benefit by looking into the background first before going off half cock?

Oh and incidentally didn't you find what the last lot did was often different from what they said???

I am merely pointing out that the people of Germany behaved like sheep and fell for the bullshit of Hitler and his chums and that the ordinary people of this country shouldn't do likewise and fall for the bullshit of Mr cameron and his slimy pals who only look after their own. Personal experience has taught me not to believe anything from such bodies as confederations and associations many of whose leaders are taking it either in the backpocket or up the arse from slimey right wing politicians.

No need to look into any background mate the people now in charge of our country were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and wont give a f**k about ordinary Joe. Like I said I am a man of senior years and have seen many Tory governments and I speak from personal experiences.

So you just ignore anything The NHS Confederation or Patients Association say because you think they are in the pay of the conservatives? Without even checking whether they might be right. Blimey Labour have got you in their pocket haven't they.


IAnd you won't even check the background of the story becuase it is from those nasty Tories. Good God man where have you been for the last 13 years . Haven't you seen that Labour have been just as bad????

So you just ignore anything The NHS Confederation or Patients Association say because you think they are in the pay of the conservatives? Without even checking whether they might be right. Blimey Labour have got you in their pocket haven't they.
I would rather believe the doctors themselves they know what their talking about.

Doctors warned the change could have unintended consequences. Hamish Meldrum, chairman of the British Medical Association, said fears over financial penalties could lead to patients being kept in hospital longer than necessary.
"One risk is that we get a situation where decisions about discharge are based not on a judgement about what is best for the patient, but on an attempt to avoid additional costs," Meldrum said.
a paper published by the DH in December 2008 said there were only "very weak and statistically insignificant" links between shorter lengths of stay and rising emergency readmissions.

In the NHS, the authors point out, an emergency readmission does not necessarily imply any connection between the first and second admission. "For example, a person leaving hospital after a minor surgical procedure who is readmitted following, say, a road traffic accident within four weeks of discharge is still counted as an emergency readmission," the paper says.

Good God man where have you been for the last 13 years .
Where have I been? In and out of hospital mate and had very good service thank you very much - theres f**k all wrong with the health service - I have a lot to thank it for and I don't want the hooray henrys f*cking it up mate. Like I keep saying I am speaking from personal experiences and I also have immediate family who work in the Health service. I hope to f*cking god you never need it in the future under this short sighted prick of a health secretary, it may cost you your life.

Health Secretary Andrew Lansley's first flagship policy was branded "idiocy" by surgeons yesterday.

His plans to fine hospitals if patients need to be readmitted for extra treatment was meant to be a hard-hitting Coalition reform of the NHS.

But it was labelled "short-sighted and counter-productive" by the Association of Surgeons of Great Britain and Ireland.

Vice-president Professor John MacFie said: "It will encourage hospitals to keep patients in. The policy is idiocy." He added it meant day surgery patients will be kept in overnight at extra cost.

Deary deary me - big holes in this policy already. If your going to change the health service it may help to speak to the people in the engine room first.