" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

With this post and the earlier American money man with a Championship boner....


Am I getting carried away with it all

With this post and the earlier American money man with a Championship boner....


Am I getting carried away with it all

is the takeover possibility mentioned couple months ago back on agenda?

So it looks like Plan B then!

Mr Tan's dream turned into a nightmare, the OGS fiasco was the final straw, he appears to have decided to cut but not run and in his own good time get out with all his money (maybe even a profit!).

When he first got involved the allure of personal glory was a great attraction, the debacle that followed quashed that & no doubt in his World he feels more than a little insulted! Now it seems the ruthless approach of the mega successful businessman will take over. Never gracing the club much with his presence he is now non-existent, his dastardly new plan commenced when he appointed Russell Slade his "cheap as chips" manager, he gets him to ship out a raft of expensive PL potential players & replace them with cheaper journeymen and players that may well "do" at Championship level (certainly OK for Division 1!).

So he has a now successfully removed any chance whatsoever of getting near the PL and all the costs involved with that in the short term, much better to flounder in the Championship or League 1, bank the huge parachute payments and then get a good price for a financially secure club in a couple of years.

Oh and reverting to Blue was another sound business decision, re-opening another income stream (he might even sell some of the red stuff now!). And maybe the "Bond" villain will take his revenge on the fans by serving up "Slade" football for the next couple of years.

Or maybe someone will step in before its too late, because its time this terrible dream ended.

. He followed that up, introduces them to his "expect to lose" style of play aand his decision to revert to Blue means he can now gain revenue by selling merchandise.

His dastardly plan is
Aand for the next couple of years Mr. Tan will "take the money" & then sell for whatever he can get, oh and of course if he stays away from the place he can just about forget his rare business mistake!

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

OUCH!!

(if that is correct...and I have no reason to doubt!)

I was told on Saturday that CCFC are leaking money left , right and centre and that the Club are to quote " in a right mess " on and off the field , this from a reliable source with inside info . We shall see ............

Of course the club is in a financial mess. Tan is as big a fool as those that went before him when it comes to money. Honestly, what is it with people not living within their means in todays world? If you haven't got it, don't bloody spend it. Don't use credit or have loads of outstanding liabilities, just make do with what you have. Whether its the governments, the banks, other businesses or the average person racking up debts people just haven't got a clue about financial management these days. It should be one of the key things taught at school.

This whole fiasco isn't going to end until:

a) The club hits the financial brick wall
b) Someone with a lot of money is stupid enough to buy the club

A is more likely than B. A is what is going to happen once Tan takes everything out of the club he can. Simple as that. I'm at peace with that however because once A happens, the fans rebuild the club and we're back in blue with the bluebird as we want properly, only then will we be united, only then will the fan base feel they have a true and genuine stake in the club once again and only then will we be able to move forward in the right way. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. When you spend way beyond your means as we have done and the creditors want to salvage money, the only thing coming up next is a crash. Its basic business/economics.

Massive Fan base I presume is based on being in the Premier League, this is based on people wanting to watch Premier League football rather than being Cardiff City fans.

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

Tim, This is one of many reports and I have been told by Directors at our club. Like I have said I dont know every figure exactly,but hopefully near enough and Tan wants his money back and out of CCFC ASAP





Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan reveals he has ploughed £170m into Bluebirds but vows 'I will make us profitable'
1 October 2014

Head of Sport Paul Abbandonato

Bluebirds boss admits he would not have got involved if he had forseen problems, but maintains Cardiff will work for him


Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan is adamant he can turn the Bluebirds into a profitable business despite stating he has already invested £170million into the club.

The Malaysian billionaire says he would never have come on board if he had foreseen the problems thrown his way.

But Tan maintains he can still make Wales’ capital city club a thriving business venture... and reiterated his belief that the ‘lucky red’ will help him.

In the third part of an interview with Sky Sports News, Tan stood by his controversial decision to rebrand the Bluebirds and insists the challenge he has taken on will end well.

“If I had known that it was so difficult and the problems that we faced, maybe I wouldn’t have invested,” said Tan.

“But having said that, I think it is a challenge and I believe that eventually this will end well. I believe that I can make this investment profitable.

“Of course, my friends think I’m crazy, that it is impossible to make it profitable, but I believe that it is possible, so time will tell.”

When are the next set of accounts due ?

When are the next set of accounts due ?

Dobbin, They should be out very soon

It's going to be interesting but it won't covermonthsthis season unless they decided to do extra accounts

The way I see it is from what ive seen at other clubs who have sold loads it hardly touches the debt, you have to figure in the huge wages we were paying, player bonuses, signing on fees, player terminations, managers terminations, the new stand, money to langston, money to other debts. You only have to look at the debt at a lot of clubs who go down from the prem and struggle financially.

Also all the players sold I doubt any of them are in a lump sum, probably be years before we get anywhere near the prices reported thats if it ever reaches that amount.

Wouldnt surpise me if the debt has hardly moved at all, the only good news is that we are finally make the right cut backs and hopefully come the next few years we will eventually be self sufficent and Tan wont demand his debt back in a rush.

When are the next set of accounts due ?

Dobbin, They should be out very soon

The accounts for the last 2 years have been submitted around the middle to end of January, so they ate slightly late this year
I expect them to show that the club made a profit of around £20 million

The way I see it is from what ive seen at other clubs who have sold loads it hardly touches the debt, you have to figure in the huge wages we were paying, player bonuses, signing on fees, player terminations, managers terminations, the new stand, money to langston, money to other debts. You only have to look at the debt at a lot of clubs who go down from the prem and struggle financially.

Also all the players sold I doubt any of them are in a lump sum, probably be years before we get anywhere near the prices reported thats if it ever reaches that amount.

Wouldnt surpise me if the debt has hardly moved at all, the only good news is that we are finally make the right cut backs and hopefully come the next few years we will eventually be self sufficent and Tan wont demand his debt back in a rush.

Well we probably did not pay lump sums on player purchases either so that cancels that debt
Reading on here about our debts you would think we only run them up and don't reduce them
Some said and included in the total about 25 million of other debts ie langstone and others
Then says tan pays them so we now owe it to tan but don't take it off the total debt etc
IMO no one on here knows where we are , it's all a load of guess work or I know some one who knows some one or someone told me etc personally I think we are no more than 50 million in debt and I believe that is reducing all the time I also believe we are now living within our means
One thing for sure is the more season tickets sold will certainly help us with the fair play rules and help speed up tans exit
We all want to be self sufficient and tan gone but our budget will be based on our income so stay away fans just stop and think what you are actually achieving

The way I see it is from what ive seen at other clubs who have sold loads it hardly touches the debt, you have to figure in the huge wages we were paying, player bonuses, signing on fees, player terminations, managers terminations, the new stand, money to langston, money to other debts. You only have to look at the debt at a lot of clubs who go down from the prem and struggle financially.

Also all the players sold I doubt any of them are in a lump sum, probably be years before we get anywhere near the prices reported thats if it ever reaches that amount.

Wouldnt surpise me if the debt has hardly moved at all, the only good news is that we are finally make the right cut backs and hopefully come the next few years we will eventually be self sufficent and Tan wont demand his debt back in a rush.

Well we probably did not pay lump sums on player purchases either so that cancels that debt
Reading on here about our debts you would think we only run them up and don't reduce them
Some said and included in the total about 25 million of other debts ie langstone and others
Then says tan pays them so we now owe it to tan but don't take it off the total debt etc
IMO no one on here knows where we are , it's all a load of guess work or I know some one who knows some one or someone told me etc personally I think we are no more than 50 million in debt and I believe that is reducing all the time I also believe we are now living within our means
One thing for sure is the more season tickets sold will certainly help us with the fair play rules and help speed up tans exit
We all want to be self sufficient and tan gone but our budget will be based on our income so stay away fans just stop and think what you are actually achieving

You can't on the one hand say no one on here knows or has any idea on what the debt levels are and then in the next sentence say "personally I think we are no more than £50 million in debt"? You have to back up your guess work with some facts. At least Annis has had a bash at that

Well if annis is any where near with his knowledge and he says about 40 million in debt and you app loud him
Why do you question my thoughts of 50 million
Or is it troobloo 3339 that puts you into questionable mode
And forever blue that puts you into a agreeable mode

I have no idea how much it is and wont pretend that I do, I just read about other clubs after relegation and teh debt doesnt seem to fall off them like people expect it to for us.

I have no idea how much it is and wont pretend that I do, I just read about other clubs after relegation and teh debt doesnt seem to fall off them like people expect it to for us.

they didn't have the massive sky tv deals tho ,we earned more than the season before winners ,with the bottom team now getting 100 m next year I can see tan sticking around ,writing this season off and going for it again next year

When are the next set of accounts due ?

Dobbin, They should be out very soon

The accounts for the last 2 years have been submitted around the middle to end of January, so they ate slightly late this year
I expect them to show that the club made a profit of around £20 million

The 2013 accounts were filed in the first week of January 2014 , so the 2014 ones are being filed several weeks later than that (they are supposedly going to Companies House within the next week but have been finalised and signed off for months).

Until last week , based upon info. given by the previous CEO , I also expected the 2014 accounts to show a profit , but slightly lower than your figure at between £10m and £12m. I now expect those accounts to show a loss.

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

Tim

The club`s board now state that the debt due to VT is now greater than the £130m he himself claimed was owed to him back in July 2013. The 2014 accounts may give some steer on this as , although they relate to May 2014 , they will have notes in them on material events happening up to when they were signed off by the board and auditors (which I think was Nov 2014).

Keith

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

Have done some responses elsewhere in this thread.

Debt currently due to VT now more than the £130m he claimed he was owed in July 2013.
Despite what Simon Lim previously said about making a profit in the year in the Premier League , accounts filed later this month will show a loss for that season.
I can only attempt to do an explanation of why this is once the May 2014 accounts are available to read.

So if Tan is looking to sell ( and it will be at a huge loss to him ) how much do we anticipate CCFC going for considering the size of the debt which is owed to Tan , not forgetting the £6mil or so Sam / Langstone are after ??

If you think your debt is anywhere near 40 million then you need to get your head out the sand . There`s wishful thinking and then there is sheer stupidity.

Math`s is obviously not your strong point .

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

Have done some responses elsewhere in this thread.

Debt currently due to VT now more than the £130m he claimed he was owed in July 2013.
Despite what Simon Lim previously said about making a profit in the year in the Premier League , accounts filed later this month will show a loss for that season.
I can only attempt to do an explanation of why this is once the May 2014 accounts are available to read.

Well Keith, If we still owe Tan more than £130million, Tan has totally mismanaged this club from top to bottom and deserves to lose the lot. For me No way after all the money we have received from Sky/Transfers etc should we now be still over £130mill in debt

Which would mean I have been virtually right all along, but in fact its been far worse than I ever imagined

Wez, your thoughts? as youve always said it was no where near what Ive always stated and said I was just try to frightening fans etc,but in fact according to Keith its far worse

I have no idea how much it is and wont pretend that I do, I just read about other clubs after relegation and teh debt doesnt seem to fall off them like people expect it to for us.

they didn't have the massive sky tv deals tho ,we earned more than the season before winners ,with the bottom team now getting 100 m next year I can see tan sticking around ,writing this season off and going for it again next year

Wez thats my thinking this coming season is last of old deal ! So next season is big opportunity for some champ clubs to gain foot hold in premier if get promoted, as deal came after tans decision to cut cost's what does he do now? Chance it again or take massive losses? As judging whats been said here we are never going to be profitable no matter how much cost cutting is done?:old:

Keith aka Since62, a question to you, hopefully you can answer this. How the hell are we in so much debt still after all the incomes we have received?

Also, Do you believe our club has been run right or badly?

Keith aka Since62, a question to you, hopefully you can answer this. How the hell are we in so much debt still after all the incomes we have received?

Also, Do you believe our club has been run right or badly?

We remain in so much debt because it appears that we have simply spent all the extra income we got from being in the Premier League.Much of that spending was , in my personal opinion , avoidable or unnecessary.

When the 2014 accounts are published , I will be doing a comparison of our financial figures against Swansea`s. They finished higher than us in the League of course so got more Sky income than us by about £10m (£75m compared to our £64m as part of the Sky deal gives clubs an extra £1.2m for every place above bottom they finish in the final league table).
Their total income that season was £99m , so they made £24m from non-Sky money - I would bet that we didn`t , but don`t know for sure until I see the figures.I suspect we didn`t do as well as them because I fear we didn`t maximise potential income such as advertising from companies not owned or controlled by VT.

Despite SCFC paying out over £30m in the cost of new players (and no income from player sales) they still made a profit of nearly £2m , while CCFC now appear to have made a loss in that period.

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.