Is the Academy worth the money?

As Mr Tan seems to be embarked on an economy drive I wonder if he will turn his attention to the Academy? Arguably he should since it is not contributing much at first team level. My memory isn't great but I don't think our youth system has produced anyone of real quality,or value, since Ledley, Ramsey and Jerome. Those were years ago and none of them were really products of our full blown Academy set up as it now is. Some will point to Adam Matthews and Declan John but neither of those were/are convincing first teamers to me. Ben Nugent has got lower leagues written all over him. Joe Ralls is doing ok but again, like Jerome, he is one we got as a 17 year old rather one we found as a kid and brought through.

It doesn't help that the club seems very reluctant to give promising youngsters a chance at first team level. So Oshilaja is farmed out again and will probably be gone in the summer while the talented Tommy O'sullivan is nowhere near the first team despite our midfield being rubbish all year.

It's been said on here that the Academy is costing us £1million+ a year. Would it be better to spend that money on acquiring one or two young players a year from lower leagues who are ready to go into our first team squad? It wouldn't be my preferred option but the alternative of making the Academy function better would require more money and modern long term thinking which might be beyond the current regime.

We spent years watching our young players go to the likes of Bristol rovers and Bristol city, Lets not forget how it raises the profile of the club in the local community, encourages support of the club and employs people. I don't think a million pound is much to pay for that. And 2 Ramseys every 5 years would cover the cost.

Its been more than 5 years since Ramsey came through. Not much sign of the next one.

Its been more than 5 years since Ramsey came through. Not much sign of the next one.

Haven't we had several academy players break thru? declan john for one! Its because we have not sold any that don't notice, we need academy to progress as a club cost is sustainable!

Its been more than 5 years since Ramsey came through. Not much sign of the next one.

Haven't we had several academy players break thru? declan john for one! Its because we have not sold any that don't notice, we need academy to progress as a club cost is sustainable!

We have had Adam Matthews who we managed to lose for nothing and I don't rate anyway.. Declan John who could be a good winger but I think we are ruining by playing at fullback. Ben Nugent who isn't good enough to play at Championship level and we won't get much of a fee for, and Ralls who is doing ok and perhaps worth 750K. Not much of a return for the £6 million+ we have spent on the Academy in the 6 years since Ramsey left.

I am being Devil's advocate here really. I would like the Academy to thrive. There is nothing better to see than a young local player coming through. But as it is operating at the present I don't think it is doing it's job well enough. If I was Mr Tan I would be asking questions about it.

Its been more than 5 years since Ramsey came through. Not much sign of the next one.

Haven't we had several academy players break thru? declan john for one! Its because we have not sold any that don't notice, we need academy to progress as a club cost is sustainable!

We have had Adam Matthews who we managed to lose for nothing and I don't rate anyway.. Declan John who could be a good winger but I think we are ruining by playing at fullback. Ben Nugent who isn't good enough to play at Championship level and we won't get much of a fee for, and Ralls who is doing ok and perhaps worth 750K. Not much of a return for the £6 million+ we have spent on the Academy in the 6 years since Ramsey left.

I am being Devil's advocate here really. I would like the Academy to thrive. There is nothing better to see than a young local player coming through. But as it is operating at the present I don't think it is doing it's job well enough. If I was Mr Tan I would be asking questions about it.

He probably has but we need it for long term ambitions! It is fundamental for all clubs who want to progress either in champ or premier.

Its been more than 5 years since Ramsey came through. Not much sign of the next one.

Haven't we had several academy players break thru? declan john for one! Its because we have not sold any that don't notice, we need academy to progress as a club cost is sustainable!

We have had Adam Matthews who we managed to lose for nothing and I don't rate anyway.. Declan John who could be a good winger but I think we are ruining by playing at fullback. Ben Nugent who isn't good enough to play at Championship level and we won't get much of a fee for, and Ralls who is doing ok and perhaps worth 750K. Not much of a return for the £6 million+ we have spent on the Academy in the 6 years since Ramsey left.

I am being Devil's advocate here really. I would like the Academy to thrive. There is nothing better to see than a young local player coming through. But as it is operating at the present I don't think it is doing it's job well enough. If I was Mr Tan I would be asking questions about it.

He probably has but we need it for long term ambitions! It is fundamental for all clubs who want to progress either in champ or premier. lots clubs spent lot more than us and still haven't produced a worthwhile ramsey ect ect so pacience is a virtue!

Magnus wolf eikrem cost 2 millions pounds.

With a new blue shirt and sponsor, plus the increased sales of club merchandise should fund it next season.

Waste of time. We'd be better off investing in a stronger scouting network and poaching talent at bargain prices like Swansea do.

No it aint lack of good coaches

I agree I know what your saying mate. Not much coming through at all. I think you just have to look at our first team squad to find out why, with 30odd senior pros how's a young 17/18 year old going to have a look in. And denzil just because we make money from one source doesn't mean you can just say f**k it we sold Aran Ramsey 6 years that covers the cost! the OP is right IMO.

They havent taken that final step, the academy only really goes from primary school age, we all heard about how Tommy sullivan and Wharton were the being raved about, both have tailed off hugely since. I don't think you can blame the academy, itd down to themselves and the pro coaching staff since they turned pro at 17

18 year old Tom James made his debut in the last match last season - if only for a few minutes, but he was on Ole's bench quite a few times. I think he was on the bench this year at Bournemouth too.
but as someone said there are a bunch of seasoned pros, especially at centre half, in front of him and out on loan.

We havent produced enough in my opinion. John currently pushing into the squad but not really impressing me, not sure he is good enough.

as a business, maybe not. you cannot guarantee that you will get a constant flow of valuable young players. however, if we do get another ramsey, due to our financial position we could hold out for true market value. what are they talking about for will hughes, a player roughly similar to ramsey at his age? £15m? home grown players are increasing hugely in value.

as a community institution, even if it is not always economical, any self respecting club should have a good academy.

I think its alot harder to break in at the moment with the football we play.

Its alot easier to break through in every position if you play a more possession based pass and move game, Playing rough house football as we do in a team that doesnt dominate is alot harder to bed a kid who hasnt filled out, but is technically a good player. I also dont think this academy set up in whole works, go back to reserves being used properly with actual men, we used to have an actual reserve team full of men playing, that wasnt even that long ago. players like Walton or lee kendle in goal, mattie brazier, thommo, gavin gordon, fowler, all stuck in the reserves.

as a business, maybe not. you cannot guarantee that you will get a constant flow of valuable young players. however, if we do get another ramsey, due to our financial position we could hold out for true market value. what are they talking about for will hughes, a player roughly similar to ramsey at his age? £15m? home grown players are increasing hugely in value.

as a community institution, even if it is not always economical, any self respecting club should have a good academy.

In my 50 odd years of following the club we have produced no other player remotely near Ramsey's quality. God knows when we will get another. "Waiting for Ramsey " is not a good business plan. It is reasonable however to expect an Academy to produce one player of good first team quality every year or so. Ours isn't. If it is to contnue-and I hope it does - it will need to improve its output.

Its not about money academies are part of football now! What you are basically saying is we don't want to encourage young local players to join city we want them to go to Swansea or who ever has academy?

Very few clubs get players break in to 1St team but spend lot more than us on academies

lets be honest, the club and many fans have become big time charlies.....We have preferred to pay millions for squad players...

Time to throw Sullivan in to see if he can hack it

Its not about money academies are part of football now! What you are basically saying is we don't want to encourage young local players to join city we want them to go to Swansea or who ever has academy?

Very few clubs get players break in to 1St team but spend lot more than us on academies

No I think he's saying he wants to see more quality coming through.

Its not about money academies are part of football now! What you are basically saying is we don't want to encourage young local players to join city we want them to go to Swansea or who ever has academy?

Very few clubs get players break in to 1St team but spend lot more than us on academies

No I think he's saying he wants to see more quality coming through.

As just pointed out it doesn't happen often at any club regardless of amount money put in! And its not about money its about possible future talent as in all academies? So no its not waste of money

i'd say yes it is vital, no matter how long it takes to get a player through, it could be a bale, or a rambo again, and i think thats worth the cost. also i think the FA help fund academies with money at the start of each year, because i remember wrexham saying they relied on the fa funding to keep their going.

the tricky thing with youth players is, people dont see them as good enough, until they are given a run of games.

as a business, maybe not. you cannot guarantee that you will get a constant flow of valuable young players. however, if we do get another ramsey, due to our financial position we could hold out for true market value. what are they talking about for will hughes, a player roughly similar to ramsey at his age? £15m? home grown players are increasing hugely in value.

as a community institution, even if it is not always economical, any self respecting club should have a good academy.

In my 50 odd years of following the club we have produced no other player remotely near Ramsey's quality. God knows when we will get another. "Waiting for Ramsey " is not a good business plan. It is reasonable however to expect an Academy to produce one player of good first team quality every year or so. Ours isn't. If it is to contnue-and I hope it does - it will need to improve its output.

thats why i point out that academies should not be run as businesses. remember that even if you produce the players, you have to have a manager that will give them a chance to succeed, thats the other element to a young player making it.

i think that the current set up will yield another top class young player in the next 5 years. with the level of investment much higher than previously i think thats a reasonably accurate prediction.

You have to wait a player like Ramsey is special to come through what we need is 2 or 3 to come through at a time we just need to wait i think it will be a few years away but we have a few under 14s who at the moment look the part.

I swear to god some of you will say its a waste of money..........then if we never had one, why did we miss out on bellamy....................blah blah blah

You missed Bale