Trust’s New Year Plea to Vincent Tan

The Trust today issued the following message to the owner of Cardiff City. The letter has been sent to chief executive, Ken Choo, asking him to pass on the contents to Mr Tan.


An Open Letter to Vincent Tan from Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust

Dear Mr Tan,

We are writing to you to once again raise issues of concern to fans of Cardiff City Football Club.

First of all, we would stress that supporters recognise and are grateful for the considerable investment you have made in our football club.

However, ever since the decision was taken more than two-and-a-half years ago to rebrand our club, it has created division within the fan base with many supporters feeling that the changes completely ignored the club’s long history and traditions.

To repair bridges we believe that there must be a return to playing in blue at home for the next season, along with a return to the traditional club badge that was removed at the rebranding.

All the main Cardiff City supporter groups will show the strength of feeling on these issues by joining together on Saturday, January 31st, 2015, to march to the stadium to deliver a letter to the club requesting a change back to Cardiff City’s traditional blue home kit with Bluebird badge for the 2015-16 season.

The request is supported by all major fan groups including The Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust, The Cardiff City Supporters Club, Cardiff City Forum, Cardiff City Online, Bluebirds Unite and even Bluebirds Down Under.

Committed fans, who have in many cases followed the club for decades, feel disenfranchised and have told us that they are considering not renewing their season tickets at the end of the season – unless there is a return to blue. We dearly hope that such a boycott can be avoided.

We believe that unless changes are made the division between the fans and our club will only grow. Your executives in Cardiff will confirm that the stadium is overwhelmingly blue at every home match. The fans of Cardiff City have given their verdict.

It is wrong of you to say as you recently did in an interview with Sky Sports that, “At the time everyone agreed.” There was no consultation with fans. The change of colour was presented to us as a fait accompli. Earlier this year you said you would consider reversing the rebrand. It now seems that despite the supporters continuing discontent with the changes, you have now shut down any suggestion of dialogue or compromise with the fans.

As you may be aware the main political parties in the UK are looking at ensuring there is greater supporter involvement in clubs and will be including proposals for legislation in their manifestos for the 2015 UK General Election.

The Trust believes that the club has the opportunity to lead the way and we urge you to consider appointing an elected supporter director to the board as a priority.

We are also concerned that the pledges made by yourself to convert the debt owed by the club to you into equity have yet to be realised. We would be grateful if you could make a firm commitment on the conversion of the debt.

As you will be aware, a key to the success of any business is the loyalty of its customers, in this case the fans. It is vital that everyone at Cardiff City, fans, players, the manager and yourself, is pulling in the same direction as the club strives to return to the Premier League.

We hope you will respond positively to our letter with a view to taking everyone who believes in Cardiff City F.C. forward together.

Yours sincerely,

Tim Hartley

Chair, Cardiff City Supporters’ Trust

December 31st, 2014

http://www.ccfctrust.org/?p=4107

Waste of ink. If the letter actually gets as far as Tan, I'm sure he will spend all of 5 seconds looking at it before screwing it up and throwing it in the bin. He's on the other side of the world, and the City supporters are no more than a minor irritation which he is prepared to put up with as long as they continue to support him with their cash. Doubt if we are any big deal to him, he has plenty of other ventures to occupy himself with.

Very well written letter and conveys mine and many more supporters sentiments,,Lets just hope Tan demonstrates a willingness to engage in partnership with us fans as without the club is doomed.

SADLY I DID NOT RENEW THIS SEASON AND WILL NOT RENEW UNTIL THE REBRAND IS REVERSED OR TAN DEPARTS.. I URGE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME TO ASSIST TO BRING ABOUT POSITIVE CHANGE AT OUR BLUEBIRDS CCFC FOORBALL CLUB .

These sort of open letters is what is needed as well. Makes old Twatty look bad in the press

The point of an open letter is that it's hard for the person it's addressed to to completely ignore it. Even if the letter itself doesn't make it into tans hand, it will end up in the media and more of our fans are now contacting the Malaysian press, so he will be forced to acknowledge it at some point.

It's also a public statement to show how many of our fans are feeling.

These sort of open letters is what is needed as well. Makes old Twatty look bad in the press

I can see what you mean, but he already looks bad in the press. He has been a laughing stock for a while now, and it was quite a while back that members of this forum were saying that we have become a laughing stock around the world because of him. It seems to me that we are going over the same old ground all the time. Can't remember who said it, but there is a saying that if you keep doing the same thing, you keep getting the same result. I hope this has some effect, but personally I don't think he will care in the slightest. Can't fault anyone for trying though.

Waste of ink. If the letter actually gets as far as Tan, I'm sure he will spend all of 5 seconds looking at it before screwing it up and throwing it in the bin. He's on the other side of the world, and the City supporters are no more than a minor irritation which he is prepared to put up with as long as they continue to support him with their cash. Doubt if we are any big deal to him, he has plenty of other ventures to occupy himself with.

Have to disagree with this Steve.
I understand what you are saying but to do NOTHING at this point is a lot worse than trying SOMETHING. Keep chipping & chipping away with open letters, protests, etc. is the only way. Follow this with NoBlueNoRenew & the template letter to the club IMO.

now on BBC site..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30643466

How many of these have we see now....loads and there a complete waste of time, tan won't even come to a poxy meeting with them if that don't say something f**k all will.

Its a good statement. It addresses all of the main issues and counters Tan's claims in his Christmas day statement. Its already been picked up by the national press, which is presently the only thing that Tan responds too. His reputation in the press is his key concern. We must as fans appreciate all forms of protest, instead of arguing amongst ourselves as to which is the best. Every protest is taking a step in the right direction and will eventually make a difference

It may have little impact but I fully support the approach. The letter is good. It uses appropriate language and gives a reasoned opinion.
I am guessing that similar letters have been sent to the local MPs and to football authorities (eg FA and Welsh FA) in the UK to seek their support for returning to blue etc. If not they should be. If official bodies/authorities support the reasons for reversing the rebrand VT is more likely to appreciate that the problem (and its impact on his reputation) is not going away.

These sort of open letters is what is needed as well. Makes old Twatty look bad in the press

The problem is none of this gets reported in the media apart from the echo.....SKY SPORTS NEWS are so far up Tans arse that whenever they fancy a little break from the studio Tan flys one of them over for a 3 day interview.....Sky have never had one supporter on giving them our point of view.

These sort of open letters is what is needed as well. Makes old Twatty look bad in the press

The problem is none of this gets reported in the media apart from the echo.....SKY SPORTS NEWS are so far up Tans arse that whenever they fancy a little break from the studio Tan flys one of them over for a 3 day interview.....Sky have never had one supporter on giving them our point of view.

The BBC and ITV Wales have picked up on this. It may not achieve anything on it's own, but it all helps.

We have to try and fair play a good letter we have to try why not

No doubt It can be considered another good effort, but that's as much as it is. The points in it are quite silly and something a billionaire will scoff and laugh at.

A fan on the board is a complete farce, quite laughable.

UK elections .... Laughable.

And trust letters quite laughable. The real reason Vincent thinks the fans backed him before was down to all the other open letters published by the gullible fans so called leaders, followed by all the red seen at the ground especially red scarf night.

As for debt to equity, at boardroom level the deal was never completed. Michael Issac at the last moment pulled out on the deal to sell his share holding. That's a fact whilst all other directors sold at the agreed price, so until Issac changes his mind, it won't happen anyway.

Finally with everyone now being anti what nugget would do it now anyway, and a nugget isn't what old VT is !!!

Debt to equity makes no difference to the average fan anyway, not the slightest bit of difference.

No doubt It can be considered another good effort, but that's as much as it is. The points in it are quite silly and something a billionaire will scoff and laugh at.

A fan on the board is a complete farce, quite laughable.

UK elections .... Laughable.

And trust letters quite laughable. The real reason Vincent thinks the fans backed him before was down to all the other open letters published by the gullible fans so called leaders, followed by all the red seen at the ground especially red scarf night.

As for debt to equity, at boardroom level the deal was never completed. Michael Issac at the last moment pulled out on the deal to sell his share holding. That's a fact whilst all other directors sold at the agreed price, so until Issac changes his mind, it won't happen anyway.

Finally with everyone now being anti what nugget would do it now anyway, and a nugget isn't what old VT is !!!

Debt to equity makes no difference to the average fan anyway, not the slightest bit of difference.

Steve, you are spot on with that post, fella

All p**s taking side, it shows how ignorant most of our fan base (and I include myself in that group on many issues) are when it comes to how/why/when things will or will not be done at the CCS

Michael Isaac is obviously looking out for no one except himself, but who can blame him in reality?

No doubt It can be considered another good effort, but that's as much as it is. The points in it are quite silly and something a billionaire will scoff and laugh at.

A fan on the board is a complete farce, quite laughable.

UK elections .... Laughable.

And trust letters quite laughable. The real reason Vincent thinks the fans backed him before was down to all the other open letters published by the gullible fans so called leaders, followed by all the red seen at the ground especially red scarf night.

As for debt to equity, at boardroom level the deal was never completed. Michael Issac at the last moment pulled out on the deal to sell his share holding. That's a fact whilst all other directors sold at the agreed price, so until Issac changes his mind, it won't happen anyway.

Finally with everyone now being anti what nugget would do it now anyway, and a nugget isn't what old VT is !!!

Debt to equity makes no difference to the average fan anyway, not the slightest bit of difference.

Steve, you are spot on with that post, fella

All p**s taking side, it shows how ignorant most of our fan base (and I include myself in that group on many issues) are when it comes to how/why/when things will or will not be done at the CCS

Michael Isaac is obviously looking out for no one except himself, but who can blame him in reality?

Hello Sven, happy new year to you fella. Michael Issac only ever looks after one person himself, although he did renegade on an agreement. But anyway that renegade stopped the debt to equity deal, and without trying to be disrespectful to anyone involved the trust should know that before penning in a letter.

Now let's be honest old Vincent is a very busy billionaire businessman and I'm sure he doesn't have the time to check who the leaders are of what supporters group, to him a customer is a customer and looks at the mass, and if we are all truthful the mass supported the red, the media reports too by the self professed fans leaders also supported by fans leaders letters printed in the media supported that, Paul Corkery, Gwyn Davies. Tony Jeffies , Vince Alm & Tim Hartley all had letters printed in the same issue backing Vincent and his investmement. Tan got to read those and it's a fact that's what he based his opinion on and also the feedback from directors who wanted to protect their investments , some who had claimed previous to have blue blood running through them, as well as basically incompetent club staff who just kissed ass best they could to impress.

So there is where Vincent's picture was formed. It's those exact people named above who to you blue boys should be hanging their heads in total shame especially the ones now to wanting Vincent out and back to blue, is that fickle or what ?

Sometimes the truth hurts but those are the facts.

Now if I was a Vincent ( Tan not Alm ) and had made those big investments and in return received the abuse he has from what were red supporters previous and fans leaders, I would dig my heels in and say FOOK YOU !!!

Harsh but true .... You're chance to get your point across and demonstrate was when you had the initial chance but that never happened right at the announcement , even said By Vince to himself ( Tan not Alm ). If you don't want it fine but I won't invest.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

Answers on a post card please !!!!!

Those same names on a post card sold their soul of their football club, and in the meantime sold yours as well.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

True or not, I was told that one of the main instigators of the red rebrand was Dalman, he wanted us to be red like manchester united.. Is this correct ?

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

I will vouch for Daya here.

When Malky got the sack and Gwyn Davies came out with his Tan Out period Davies still was adamant about supporting Tan when the rebrand first came out. His argument was that there was no one else interested in us. I asked him who told him that and his reply was all the board directors.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

True or not, I was told that one of the main instigators of the red rebrand was Dalman, he wanted us to be red like manchester united.. Is this correct ?

He will do as he's told mate .... He's basically an employee.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

I will vouch for Daya here.

When Malky got the sack and Gwyn Davies came out with his Tan Out period Davies still was adamant about supporting Tan when the rebrand first came out. His argument was that there was no one else interested in us. I asked him who told him that and his reply was all the board directors.

Gywn Davies was just Directors chicken feed.they knew who to target and what corn to feed him. He's not the most intelligent chap in the world and fell for it hook line and sinker. Made a right fool of himself by listening to them. They played him like a trooper. He was the chosen one to be fed propaganda, and to ensure more red information filtered to Vincent to secure the investment.

I bet your bottom dollar if you could ever get hold of his phone records you will find many a directors phone number as well as club staff.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

True or not, I was told that one of the main instigators of the red rebrand was Dalman, he wanted us to be red like manchester united.. Is this correct ?

He will do as he's told mate .... He's basically an employee.

He's not any old employee though, Dalman is a director of a one of tans businesses in London (so I'm told) also I just made a simple google search on his directors status http://companycheck.co.uk/director/916577445 and for some bizarre reason he has picked up a load of companies on the 7th of october and left them dormant.. Hmm bit strange

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

The only person who pushed the red initially was Tan it was HIS mad idea to re brand and there was NO consultation with the ordinary supporters and I am not talking about the so called fans leaders because they certainly dont represent myself or thousands of other City fans. If Tan wanted approval of his re brand he should have conducted a poll of season ticket holders and I am pretty sure he would have found at least 90% opposed to the change to red and the new badge!

As well as the " fans leaders " the main culprits were the directors and leading staff at theClub.

You forget they worked with the Echo for instance.

Displaying and presenting to Vincent open letters from the fans leaders.

Displaying and presenting polls organised by club staff and echo that showed the majority wanted RED.

And it rolled, Directors who wanted the investment for various personal reasons, used some of the less intelligent fans leaders to attempt to turn the mass and disrupt any demonstrations at the time.

It was all orchestrated to present to Vincent that the majority would and wanted to go along with his wishes.

So the answer is , Directors, Club Staff, Gullible
Fans leaders.

Can't argue with the fact that Directors, Club Staff and others with they own self interests to the fore but the fact remains that the vast majority of fans were not consulted and personally I think even if a poll had been conducted Tan would still have pushed through the rebrand because he was and it seems stiil is hell bent on Red

They weren't consulted because those listed knew what the outcome would be.

Directors fed the Fans Leaders knowing how they would react, in truth used as pawns. They reacted.

Club staff out to impress both Directors and their new employers did as they were told.

It was all rigged by the Directors, to bring in the investment. You didn't see any of them not donning a red tie did you ? Even the most self acclaimed loyal fans who claimed they bled blue if you cut them open.

As AC/ DC once sang " money talks "

How are those Directors now and how have their business operations flourished since ? I don't know, I'm not local anymore but maybe you do and could list ?

True or not, I was told that one of the main instigators of the red rebrand was Dalman, he wanted us to be red like manchester united.. Is this correct ?

He will do as he's told mate .... He's basically an employee.

He's not any old employee though, Dalman is a director of a one of tans businesses in London (so I'm told) also I just made a simple google search on his directors status http://companycheck.co.uk/director/916577445 and for some bizarre reason he has picked up a load of companies on the 7th of october and left them dormant.. Hmm bit strange

Chief and Indians mate .... Did laugh at the Big Chief named Company, sums it up !! Or is going into biz with Nukes ? Lol

No doubt It can be considered another good effort, but that's as much as it is. The points in it are quite silly and something a billionaire will scoff and laugh at.

A fan on the board is a complete farce, quite laughable.

UK elections .... Laughable.

And trust letters quite laughable. The real reason Vincent thinks the fans backed him before was down to all the other open letters published by the gullible fans so called leaders, followed by all the red seen at the ground especially red scarf night.

As for debt to equity, at boardroom level the deal was never completed. Michael Issac at the last moment pulled out on the deal to sell his share holding. That's a fact whilst all other directors sold at the agreed price, so until Issac changes his mind, it won't happen anyway.

Finally with everyone now being anti what nugget would do it now anyway, and a nugget isn't what old VT is !!!

Debt to equity makes no difference to the average fan anyway, not the slightest bit of difference.

Steve,,,this is all Sadly, but absolutely TRUE!

No doubt It can be considered another good effort, but that's as much as it is. The points in it are quite silly and something a billionaire will scoff and laugh at.

A fan on the board is a complete farce, quite laughable.

UK elections .... Laughable.

And trust letters quite laughable. The real reason Vincent thinks the fans backed him before was down to all the other open letters published by the gullible fans so called leaders, followed by all the red seen at the ground especially red scarf night.

As for debt to equity, at boardroom level the deal was never completed. Michael Issac at the last moment pulled out on the deal to sell his share holding. That's a fact whilst all other directors sold at the agreed price, so until Issac changes his mind, it won't happen anyway.

Finally with everyone now being anti what nugget would do it now anyway, and a nugget isn't what old VT is !!!

Debt to equity makes no difference to the average fan anyway, not the slightest bit of difference.

Steve, you are spot on with that post, fella

All p**s taking side, it shows how ignorant most of our fan base (and I include myself in that group on many issues) are when it comes to how/why/when things will or will not be done at the CCS

Michael Isaac is obviously looking out for no one except himself, but who can blame him in reality?

Hello Sven, happy new year to you fella. Michael Issac only ever looks after one person himself, although he did renegade on an agreement. But anyway that renegade stopped the debt to equity deal, and without trying to be disrespectful to anyone involved the trust should know that before penning in a letter.

Now let's be honest old Vincent is a very busy billionaire businessman and I'm sure he doesn't have the time to check who the leaders are of what supporters group, to him a customer is a customer and looks at the mass, and if we are all truthful the mass supported the red, the media reports too by the self professed fans leaders also supported by fans leaders letters printed in the media supported that, Paul Corkery, Gwyn Davies. Tony Jeffies , Vince Alm & Tim Hartley all had letters printed in the same issue backing Vincent and his investmement. Tan got to read those and it's a fact that's what he based his opinion on and also the feedback from directors who wanted to protect their investments , some who had claimed previous to have blue blood running through them, as well as basically incompetent club staff who just kissed ass best they could to impress.

So there is where Vincent's picture was formed. It's those exact people named above who to you blue boys should be hanging their heads in total shame especially the ones now to wanting Vincent out and back to blue, is that fickle or what ?

Sometimes the truth hurts but those are the facts.

Now if I was a Vincent ( Tan not Alm ) and had made those big investments and in return received the abuse he has from what were red supporters previous and fans leaders, I would dig my heels in and say FOOK YOU !!!

Harsh but true .... You're chance to get your point across and demonstrate was when you had the initial chance but that never happened right at the announcement , even said By Vince to himself ( Tan not Alm ). If you don't want it fine but I won't invest.

So the big question is WHO pushed home the red and convinced Tan the fans were happy with Red ???

Answers on a post card please !!!!!

Steve.

Just a few points re your posts in this thread.

Are you saying that VT took great notice of open letters in the past but not now?

MI selling his shares to VT would be equity to equity,not debt to equity

I think you have the wrong word in "renegade" when you refer to MI not honouring an agreement.

Do you agree with the above points?