What has Vincent Tan ever done for us????

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Put us in to millions more debt, stripped the club of its identity, alienated the fan base with dismissive comments, made the club a laughing stock up and down the country, split the fan base to a level never seen before.

Constantly delayed promises about debt to equity. Confirmed he won't be doing a full debt to equity swap, as promised originally.

Last edited by Barry Chuckle on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brilliant post, well worth a sticky, if I was still a MOD it would be straight up there. I will reply as soon as ive put my food shopping away

Right then;

What Natman Blue has stated in his post are cold hard facts about what VT has done to move the club forward from the finiancial plight we faced a couple of years ago. Barry Chuckle has retorted with a comment stating he has plunged us further into the red, which the bottom line of the balance sheet will confirm.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, despite the fact thr overall debt has risen, surely as a business we are more financially secure, as Natman states, we are in debt to one man, the owner, rather than many vultures circling as we had with Hamamm, HMRC and affiliated companies like PMG in recent years gone by.
There is no denying from people of a similiar opinion to me that VT stripped the club of its core identity when he initiated the rebrand, and it is for that reason I hold my blue scarf aloft at 1927 and sing 'we'll always be blue' its a message to Tan that those changes were unacceptable and will never be adopted by the majority of fans.

I would however, as Natman agrees, be willing to work with VT via the Trust to find some.common ground and negotiate with the Olive branch VT offered to the fans in his TV interview.
One thing I will say though *CONTROVERSIAL KLAXON* I hope that VT does not refuse to work with CCST now due to their alternative kit launch (note: im not saying its a bad thing that CCST done, im merely suggesting Tan might be less likely to want to work with them now).

As for Barry Chuckles point about the fact that Tan has not converted debt to equity, why the hell should he, fans of your stance would still like no better of him, you can't expect him to keep handing out cash will getting a tolerate of abuse from sections of the fanbase, who would never work with him for compromise, they want all their own way and will accept any alternatives nor compromise.

2 interesting and sensible posts. And one from Barry Chuckles. He is, of course, entitled to his opinion but I am getting fed up with him and others who keep saying we are a "laughing stock". Get real. Fans of other clubs couldn't care less. They are understandably only interested in themselves. Do you think they actually lose any sleep because of the colour of our shirts.?

Its the minority of fans intolerance to accept that everyone thinks different that causes abuse and arguements.

2 interesting and sensible posts. And one from Barry Chuckles. He is, of course, entitled to his opinion but I am getting fed up with him and others who keep saying we are a "laughing stock". Get real. Fans of other clubs couldn't care less. They are understandably only interested in themselves. Do you think they actually lose any sleep because of the colour of our shirts.?

Aww bless. absolutely a laughing stock.... Where did I say that was just because of the abhorrent rebrand?

Its the minority of fans intolerance to accept that everyone thinks different that causes abuse and arguements.

Exactly! But htne further to that my bug bear is that they dare to blame Tan for their own behaviour and accept no accountability for what they do! But i digress.

There's a bigger plan at play here and fan's need to grasp it rather than what is often some extreme shortsightedness (putting it politely).

put us in even more debt than before and in the same league (he says he "took this club up" it's only right he is credited for taking this club back down) all for the price of our identity, bargain

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

put us in even more debt than before and in the same league (he says he "took this club up" it's only right he is credited for taking this club back down) all for the price of our identity, bargain

There was a set back, I won't disagree with you there. But you get those in all walks of life, including business. It's how you recover from those, which Tan is continuing to address and did so by getting rid of Malky.

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

There's plenty of the opinion that would think we probably still would

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

you been a fan of this club long fella? the fans are ALWAYS fighting over something. players, funds, owners, stadiums.

and like i said, fans will always have a difference of opinion over things and that is down to the owner. but theres a difference between having a difference of opinion and constantly arguing about it, the only fans constantly arguing over it are the ones that choose to, no one is making them (and that goes for pro and anti rebrand)

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

How can't you understand that businesses sometimes need to borrow money by look for investment (share capitols with returns) or lending from the banks in order to address short term business needs with a view to developing long term growth??? You've only got to look at the news today to see it happening... Heathrow have a new CEO and will be borrowing large sums of money in order to develop the additional runway. That in turn where re-instate their position as a global hub (recently overtaken by Dubai) in order to develop further growth and income. As a result of that growth they anticipate lowering runway rental costs and recover their profits via smaller margins over a much larger customer base.

What's the alternative for Heathrow??? They stay 2nd, further lose ground on competitors, have increased expenditure which will need to be met by increased costs which then will lead to fewer consumers of their product etc etc and on to the downward spiral. They don't have the current revenue in order to facilitate the development so they will borrow and pay it back over a longer term. It would be a great world if businesses had vast cash reserves in order to fund their own developments but we don't and neither do Cardiff City. The club therefore needs to adopt an alternative approach, we have investment from Tan in order to increase it's asset base to allow it in future to trade more succesfully and service all its own expenditure.

Tan will recover his money either by Cardiff being in a position whereby it's able to service comfortably its own debt or through selling on the club which by that time will have increased revenue streams and a stronger asset base which will make it a far more attractive proposition.

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

put us in even more debt than before and in the same league (he says he "took this club up" it's only right he is credited for taking this club back down) all for the price of our identity, bargain

There was a set back, I won't disagree with you there. But you get those in all walks of life, including business. It's how you recover from those, which Tan is continuing to address and did so by getting rid of Malky.

Our fans have been moaning and divided well before the rebrand ,there is always a cause against the club ,us as fans are never happy ,as for being a laughing stock ,who gives a f**k most clubs are seen as laughing stock by others

Natman stated in another thread that he wanted tan to splash out and get this club in to more debt, for short term success, yet has the audacity to call others short sighted?!

f*cking priceless.

Our fans have been moaning and divided well before the rebrand ,there is always a cause against the club ,us as fans are never happy ,as for being a laughing stock ,who gives a f**k most clubs are seen as laughing stock by others

No they aren't.

Natman stated in another thread that he wanted tan to splash out and get this club in to more debt, for short term success, yet has the audacity to call others short sighted?!

f*cking priceless.

Quote?

It was in a poll where you said you voted a Tan to spend big again this season, i asked you about long term debt and you said that spending that money wouldn't get the club into more debt. try and find it now.

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

Sad to say i did row with an old friend at the scarfgate game.Me in my Blue' him in his red.I will personally bake him some humble pie on the Day the Blue returns.We will win Mr Tan.We will win. :bluescarf :bluescarf

Tan has done a lot of good for us, in fairness to him, but he's done an awful lot bad!

Turning us red, Splitting the fan base, stupid media quotes and silly decisions are what ruined it for him!

Our fans have been moaning and divided well before the rebrand ,there is always a cause against the club ,us as fans are never happy ,as for being a laughing stock ,who gives a f**k most clubs are seen as laughing stock by others

No they aren't.

Barry I've got to say you come across like a little weasel mate. Why can't you just debate the point instead putting in the those condescending smileys you tool!

Natman stated in another thread that he wanted tan to splash out and get this club in to more debt, for short term success, yet has the audacity to call others short sighted?!

f*cking priceless.

Quote?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=141803&hilit=+Long+term

Her. There's a vote & you chose the option to pump more money into the club and push the club into ever higher levels of debt.

Yet you claim that others are short sighted?!

PS - you even bizarrely suggest that Tan pumping more loans into the club wouldn't accrue any more debt.

Tan has done a lot of good for us, in fairness to him, but he's done an awful lot bad!

Turning us red, Splitting the fan base, stupid media quotes and silly decisions are what ruined it for him!

If Tan had not rebranded us, the fans would love his crazy media interviews, high trousers and high transfer budgets, its only those who are Anti Tan that choose to use those things against him to suit the agenda they are pushing.