' Vincent Tans continues to make false promises ' Facts

' Vincent Tans continues to make false promises '

A lot of City fans accepted the rebrand,because they believed within months City would be debt Free,its now 2 years later and we are in a bigger debt than ever.

I'm not the biggest fan of Steve Tucker. but he has made some excellent points regarding all the false promises that Tan has made about making Cardiff City Debt Free


Vincent Tan Says “We are days away from an agreement and then we can convert all the loans to equity.” May 11th 2012.



Why the red bank balance is the biggest worry for Vincent Tan and Cardiff City fans this summer - Steve Tucker

Friday May 16th 2014
BY STEVE TUCKER


Our man Steve Tucker takes a look at some of the things Vincent Tan has said prior to revealing he will leave the Bluebirds in £100m of debt while converting a portion of it to equity

It has not just been the change of shirt colour that has focussed the anger of Cardiff City supporters on owner Vincent Tan .

Plenty were opposed to the change from blue to red from the start, the meddling with tradition too bitter a pill to swallow.

But those who reluctantly went along with the rebrand have found what little tolerance they had eroded by one vital promise that has failed to materialise.

One which looks like it never will following Tan’s recent announcement that he is considering converting only a third of his debt to equity.

The assurances surrounding the rebrand that Tan was to turn the debts owed to him by the club into equity in the form of shares was, for many, what swung the deal.

Cardiff, for decades, had seemingly staggered from one financial disaster to another.

Memories of unpaid tax bills and subsequent transfer embargoes were still fresh in the minds of City fans, but here came a lifeline, a ray of hope set to safeguard the very future of the club.

Cardiff City debt free? What had seemed an impossibility was now set to happen. Or so we were promised.

Tan’s delaying of that promise, and the fact he has seemingly partially reneged on it, is wholly unacceptable to this commentator.



What Tan has said...

“It was intended for Vincent Tan to then transfer the debts due to him into equity and drive revenues through aggressive marketing.”

Open letter from (former chairman) Dato Chan Tien Ghee after initial opposition to the rebrand, May 11, 2012

“We are talking to Sam Hammam to try and resolve the Langston issue.

“We are days away from an agreement and then we can convert all the loans to equity.”




' Vincent Tan, July 22, 2013 '

“We are in the process of turning loans into equity. We are talking to shareholders now and after that I will convert my loan into equity. It will take the club to almost debt-free, probably in the next couple of months, God willing.”



' Vincent Tan, August 15, 2013 '

“Mr Tan gave some cultural, but no commercial reasons for the rebrand and told us that there would be no debt to equity conversion until after the settlement of the current legal dispute with the former manager (Malky Mackay).”

Minutes of a Cardiff City Supporters Trust meeting, March 19, 2014

“I will convert some of my debt to equity, but not all because the amount is very big. The club owes me maybe £120m and I put in £140m or £150m. Maybe I will convert £50m and leave £100m debt.”



' Vincent Tan, May 11, 2014 '

In his latest interviews, the billionaire businessman now reveals he has plunged around £150m into the club so far.

Let’s not forget that this for the large part is in the form of loans. Tan’s boasts that he has been for some time forgoing his seven per cent interest on the money is way too little and too late to impress me.

He will have to excuse me if I don’t bow my head in gratitude at that gesture.

Because now the assurance that the whole amount would be converted in exchange for the rebrand has been unceremoniously booted into touch.

Now, apparently, only a third will be converted into shares by Tan, who calmly admits this will leaving the club owing £100m to him. It is all a far cry from two years ago when Tan was aiming to push his rebrand of the club shirt and badge through.

When fans initially opposed the rebrand they were told, a real opportunity would be missed because if they agreed, Tan would convert all his loans and make the club debt free. That carrot was dangled to change supporters’ hearts and minds and in many cases, not surprisingly, it worked.

Red or dead hysteria afflicted many with a love for the Bluebirds. It was hard to think straight.

So, as we know, the rebrand went ahead, but the debt to equity conversion did not.

The excuses started instead.

The move could not be made until the matter of the loan notes owed to Langston was dealt with.

Once that was completed, the deadline was pushed back again. This time it seemed it could not be done until the legal dispute with former manager Malky Mackay was sorted.

That was put to bed last week only for Tan to come out and move the goalposts again.

Everyone has their own reasons for joining the Echo’s ‘Back to Blue’ campaign and it is not just about shirt colour.

Some are vexed by Tan’s alleged meddling in football matters last season that many believe contributed to Cardiff’s poor campaign and crushing relegation.

But the debt to equity sidestep is something that has also helped unite supporters who genuinely fear for the future of their club.

With the amount of debt Tan has saddled the club with, the colour of the shirts seems virtually immaterial.

In the end, there may be no team left to actually play in them.

It is the one thing that holds the real power over the fans. He won't turn the debt to equity. Not all of it. Not until he sells up and even then I doubt he will. There will be no compromise. There will be no change back to blue. The sooner people realise this the better.

The sooner he sells up and leaves the better.
Hopefuly we could get our club united and back to normality!

this is the vital point regarding the rebrand for me.

People might say that Cardiff fans sold their souls for sucess and premier league football but i really dont think thats true, i think the people who (begrudgingly) accepted red did so with the belief that Tan was going to eradicate the debt and make the club more stable financially than it has been for twenty years.

As it happens we are now in real trouble, so much so that even premier league riches cant bail us out of the mountain of debt we are in.

this is the vital point regarding the rebrand for me.

People might say that Cardiff fans sold their souls for sucess and premier league football but i really dont think thats true, i think the people who (begrudgingly) accepted red did so with the belief that Tan was going to eradicate the debt and make the club more stable financially than it has been for twenty years.

As it happens we are now in real trouble, so much so that even premier league riches cant bail us out of the mountain of debt we are in.

I was one of them, and I don't mind admitting it. I was desperate to see the clubs debt get sorted out, I'm gutted he hasn't gone through with changing debt to equity. For me, its always been about having a debt free club.. Instead the debts quadrupled in size, were playing in red, and back in the same league we were in when he first came here ffs you couldn't make it up.

For me, the removal of the club's financial millstone was the main and only reason that I was prepared to countenance the rebrand. I felt a red club was better than no club.

Though the club is in a better position as all the debt (even though it's more) is owed to one man rather than HMRC, Langston and others, I will not be totally happy until debt to equity happens as that was his part of the deal.

However, VT will never get the money back so whilst the figures make us nervous in reality debt to equity is just confirming what has already happened that VT has put a lot of money into the club.

Even if he wound us up now, he would never get that back.

It is the one thing that holds the real power over the fans. He won't turn the debt to equity. Not all of it. Not until he sells up and even then I doubt he will. There will be no compromise. There will be no change back to blue. The sooner people realise this the better.

Then the Club will sink spectacularly without a change back to blue, the fans are now not in any mood to compromise, Tan had his chance and disrespected us as a club to lie through his teeth to us, and now he is sussed.

can we have something that we don't know? all this has been said umpteen times before! we know he has lied to suite himself .

can we have something that we don't know? all this has been said umpteen times before! we know he has lied to suite himself .

Same as sam hammam and ridsdale previously

Have no doubts that Tan is a businessman pure and simple....with the rebranding he has shown that he is not that good a businessman. He is in this for the money not for the prestige of owning a Premier League club. Sooner or later he will desert this club leaving us in the shite.

this is the vital point regarding the rebrand for me.

People might say that Cardiff fans sold their souls for sucess and premier league football but i really dont think thats true, i think the people who (begrudgingly) accepted red did so with the belief that Tan was going to eradicate the debt and make the club more stable financially than it has been for twenty years.

As it happens we are now in real trouble, so much so that even premier league riches cant bail us out of the mountain of debt we are in.

I was one of them, and I don't mind admitting it. I was desperate to see the clubs debt get sorted out, I'm gutted he hasn't gone through with changing debt to equity. For me, its always been about having a debt free club.. Instead the debts quadrupled in size, were playing in red, and back in the same league we were in when he first came here ffs you couldn't make it up.

You speak for me also but the way ahead is still by dialog.

But how can any of you genuinely think he would turn £150m debt into zero for nothing.

I dont buy it. I told you and explained it in detail at the time. I think "debt to equity" was the pretext people needed to turn a blind eye with a ready made excuse.

Nobody with half a braincell thought he would convert full debt to equity. Its just 9 year old thinking ffs.

can we have something that we don't know? all this has been said umpteen times before! we know he has lied to suite himself .

Same as sam hammam and ridsdale previously

yes thats the point but never heared continuously about theire lies. just don't see point of saying same old things over and over! why not concentrate on protests far more constructive.

this is the vital point regarding the rebrand for me.

People might say that Cardiff fans sold their souls for sucess and premier league football but i really dont think thats true, i think the people who (begrudgingly) accepted red did so with the belief that Tan was going to eradicate the debt and make the club more stable financially than it has been for twenty years.

As it happens we are now in real trouble, so much so that even premier league riches cant bail us out of the mountain of debt we are in.

I was one of them, and I don't mind admitting it. I was desperate to see the clubs debt get sorted out, I'm gutted he hasn't gone through with changing debt to equity. For me, its always been about having a debt free club.. Instead the debts quadrupled in size, were playing in red, and back in the same league we were in when he first came here ffs you couldn't make it up.

How can you reluctantly accept whoring yourself out for a few quid?

As soon as Tan suggested 'red or dead' alarm bells should have been ringing but most of you just turned around and bent over. I have total respect for the few among you who stood true (Annis and co) though.

Did the rest of you think that someone who gives an ultimatum such as that could be trusted to be the custodian of your club? It's ok to say it now in hindsight but it should never have got this far.

But how can any of you genuinely think he would turn £150m debt into zero for nothing.

I dont buy it. I told you and explained it in detail at the time. I think "debt to equity" was the pretext people needed to turn a blind eye with a ready made excuse.

Nobody with half a braincell thought he would convert full debt to equity. Its just 9 year old thinking ffs.

it wasnt 150 million at the time though.

But how can any of you genuinely think he would turn £150m debt into zero for nothing.

I dont buy it. I told you and explained it in detail at the time. I think "debt to equity" was the pretext people needed to turn a blind eye with a ready made excuse.

Nobody with half a braincell thought he would convert full debt to equity. Its just 9 year old thinking ffs.

it wasnt 150 million at the time though.

But those same people were rejoicing at the £50m slurge and complaining at lack of funds in january.

"We have blown them out of the water financially" the soundbite to every signing.

He has really pissed me off with his bloody lies

Tucker only tells us what we ALL know already and the main reason people are turning weekly vs tan. Nobody to blame but himself them mans a total idiot when it comes to onwing a football club.

But how can any of you genuinely think he would turn £150m debt into zero for nothing.

I dont buy it. I told you and explained it in detail at the time. I think "debt to equity" was the pretext people needed to turn a blind eye with a ready made excuse.

Nobody with half a braincell thought he would convert full debt to equity. Its just 9 year old thinking ffs.

it wasnt 150 million at the time though.

But those same people were rejoicing at the £50m slurge and complaining at lack of funds in january.

"We have blown them out of the water financially" the soundbite to every signing.

I have to say that my main bugbear is that everyone seems to be saying that VT has invested in the club. He hasn't! He has loaned money which he will want back at some point. The loan>equity promise is smoke and mirrors. All he is doing is deflecting the attention away from his deceit.

The rebrand is just that: He has burned his mark onto the backside of our club as a show of strength - a power game. The divisions it has caused are just what he wants to weaken our resolve.

The red seating in the new development is another example of his intransigence. He is marking his territory and laughing at the same time.

We are running out of time. While we are receiving parachute payments, no winding up of the business can occur, but I'm sure he is working on his exit strategy already. Having said that, he will probably keep some shares just because he can.

Cynical?

You bet!

But how can any of you genuinely think he would turn £150m debt into zero for nothing.

I dont buy it. I told you and explained it in detail at the time. I think "debt to equity" was the pretext people needed to turn a blind eye with a ready made excuse.

Nobody with half a braincell thought he would convert full debt to equity. Its just 9 year old thinking ffs.

Don't agree with you too often, but have always thought exactly the same as you as far as this is concerned. Like I've said all along, Tan is a businessman, he must have a financial brain to have made so much money. No way will he covert all this debt to equity for nothing, he isn't a complete idiot. Just shouldn't have got involved with something he had no experience with, although to be fair, I don't think he came looking for us in the first place.

I'm so bored with these threads on VT. Just keep doing what we doing with 19:27 scarf thing that will do the job. Just keep taking his money in the mean time.

It's a hopeless situation, and I am starting to believe, that this hopeless situation, is what we are trying to achieve

I'm so bored with these threads on VT. Just keep doing what we doing with 19:27 scarf thing that will do the job. Just keep taking his money in the mean time.

Holding a scarf up for 60 seconds will do the job?... really?

The man only understands money and respect. Don't renew or go to the games, chant in your thousands outside the ground regarding tans disrespect and before you know it you will be blue.

Everyone knows this but won't do it as they still want tans loans. As I've I'd before it's all very much a "hold me back, hold me back" situation. There is no balls to it and the protests, if you can call then that, are all.kay apologetic with their lack of conviction

I'm so bored with these threads on VT. Just keep doing what we doing with 19:27 scarf thing that will do the job. Just keep taking his money in the mean time.

I believe you're right with the 19:27 scarf protest. It's gathering momentum and as well as sending a very clear message directly to VT's eyes it also attracts publicity from the media including the tv cameras. The showing at the Chelsea match was impressive. VT won't be bullied or give in to vitriolic, aggressive protest and so we should see where this takes us whilst endeavouring to open lines of dialogue with him. Patience is required but I firmly believe we will be blue again

a scarf up for 60 seconds will do the job?... really?

The man only understands money and respect. Don't renew or go to the games, chant in your thousands outside the ground regarding tans disrespect and before you know it you will be blue.Holdingone knows this but won't do it as they still want tans loans. As I've I'd before it's all very much a "hold me back, hold me back" situation. There is no balls to it and the protests, if you can call then that, are all.kay apologetic with their lack of conviction[/quote]


Big things have small beginnings!!

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a scarf up for 60 seconds will do the job?... really?

The man only understands money and respect. Don't renew or go to the games, chant in your thousands outside the ground regarding tans disrespect and before you know it you will be blue.Holdingone knows this but won't do it as they still want tans loans. As I've I'd before it's all very much a "hold me back, hold me back" situation. There is no balls to it and the protests, if you can call then that, are all.kay apologetic with their lack of conviction

Big things have small beginnings!![/quote]

What, so you are thinking of ramping it up to a whole 2 minutes?

Its not the length of the scarf protest its the show of hands it represents.better than any poll!!!

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I disagree entirely.

If everyone felt that strongly then they would join the march for blue etc. holding up a scarf is easy, looks pretty and is fun.

I am certain if the scarf holders were balloted - tans cash or blue - then tams cash would be chosen by a scary number.

Which is why any protest is so lacking in conviction its almost apologetic and we are nearly 3 years on.

I disagree entirely.

If everyone felt that strongly then they would join the march for blue etc. holding up a scarf is easy, looks pretty and is fun.

I am certain if the scarf holders were balloted - tans cash or blue - then tams cash would be chosen by a scary number.

Which is why any protest is so lacking in conviction its almost apologetic and we are nearly 3 years on.

I think that is true for one year ago but not now.
After a miserable year in the Premiership, people have finally realised that it doesn't feel right seeing City in red, the club is in an appalling mess, we are not debt free, and back in the Championship once again.
Times have changed.
At last.

I'm so bored with these threads on VT. Just keep doing what we doing with 19:27 scarf thing that will do the job. Just keep taking his money in the mean time.

Holding a scarf up for 60 seconds will do the job?... really?

The man only understands money and respect. Don't renew or go to the games, chant in your thousands outside the ground regarding tans disrespect and before you know it you will be blue.

Everyone knows this but won't do it as they still want tans loans. As I've I'd before it's all very much a "hold me back, hold me back" situation. There is no balls to it and the protests, if you can call then that, are all.kay apologetic with their lack of conviction

Quote (Roath Magic): "Holding a scarf up for 60 seconds will do the job?... really?"

Fella, I have to say at this point it has worked the best part of 25,000 times better than any other form of protest to date and has clearly got a message to Vincent tan that the fans still consider themselves BLUE[/b]

To say otherwise does you a disservice, as (a) you aren't at the ground/games to see the visual effect it has, and (b) you cannot seriously think that it doesn't affect Vincent Tan behind the scenes when he sees his 'customers' not buying into his product

You keep harping on about 'marches' like a 1970's Union Rep, but the world has moved on and these things have little or no affect; particularly when the subject of their focus is blissfully ignorant to what has occurred

Vincent Tan [b]CANNOT miss the "Sea of Blue" and by default he cannot fail to "get" the message it sends out

Your personal agenda might try to claim otherwise, but the simple FACT is that the "Sea of Blue" is working at least as well (and a whole lot better) than the kind of self-harming and divisive protests YOUR agenda would have us participate in