We haven't accepted the rebrand so why should Tan convert

Debt to equity.

Let me start by saying I would prefer blue, am grateful to TG and VT for the progress we have made as a club. I would prefer that we did all that while in blue but there was no one knocking the door trying to do that for us apart from Tan.

Part of the whole package was a variety of incentives. Most VT has delivered on. The one he hasn't is the debt to equity. Bearing in mind the protests this season against the blue we are clearly not accepting the rebrand. We can't have it both ways and say we reluctantly accepted the rebrand for a debt free club. This being achieved by VT converting the debt to equity. Quite clearly we are not accepting the rebrand. VT is not blind and not a fool. He can see the blue, hear the songs about the blue and even the ones calling him a wanker and Tan out. We regularly embarrass him in front of his peers.

With all the above I wouldn't get myself entrenched long term which is what debt to equity would mean.

If we want debt to equity we have to embrace Tan and the rebrand or hope someone comes along to buy us. There isn't a middle option where he sorts the debt to equity but continues to look a fool. If I'm honest if I was in his position, as a billionaire, owning a club where the majority don't want me and make that clear I would f**k them over. Hopefully he won't do that.

agree
but will add, the debt has risen over the 2 year period people complain about...and Tan says he is still supporting the wage bill....so at whatever point someone thinks it should have been done..a new debt would exist from that point to the point where he is no longer adding to it........
those making the most noise about this ..are actually those who want him out........convert and go you wanker......seems to be the stance.............they are the exact same people that thought malky would win in court and expose tan....actually wanted him to win a multi million pound law suit against CardiffCity...
we won.....more money for players next season,less in makays pocket

The debt has risen, but we aren't being pulled on from many directions by vultures, HMRC, Langston, PMG, Other Clubs, Former Board Members, The Bank all wanted a slice of the club, we are in debt to one man, that man being the club's owner who 'could' decide to do something about it 'if' he can get the fans onside.


If he was offering a horrible regime were we had no say and he laughed in the face of dialogue with the fans I would say 'no thanks' but he isn't saying that, at least not now, he is offering change, compromise, its up to us as a group of supporters to stop demanding everything our way from now on, and agree to discuss the matter wity the board, which is now being offered.

Annis and Carl have the power to influence the masses, I think they need to give it some serious consideration for the good of the clubs future.

TAN OUT!!!

TAN OUT!!!

TAN OUT!!!

But please spend money on players to get us back up.

TAN OUT!!!

But please spend money on players to get us back up.

Your thread headline is to easy to counter, the thing is the REBRAND come on the promise of ALL debt to equity. Its been well over two years and nothing still after promise on promise that's why most are at tan now as there's always another excuse. The latest was when the malky situation was sorted and now its " A little bit " if we get promoted, yet another spindle of shit to suit the rest of them he's come out with. As for players you mentioned well it wouldn't bother me as prem football done nothing for me in anyway due to what's gone on.

You have 27,000 in attendance every match - and record stadium attendances since the rebrand...

thats all the acceptance he needs.

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed the debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by Tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed th debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

A strong opinion there Annis, as always.


What do you think of the points I make in my earlier reply, that the perhaps we are better off now the debt is not as spread amongst many, and the vast majority is owed to one man who has the option too do something about that debt?

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed th debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

A strong opinion there Annis, as always.


What do you think of the points I make in my earlier reply, that the perhaps we are better off now the debt is not as spread amongst many, and the vast majority is owed to one man who has the option too do something about that debt?

Some very good points Gavin.


Gavin, Yes its great not to have all those on our back week in week out But in some ways its now worse because we are now dictated to and our club is in the hands of one man who could pull the plug over night if he felt like it and there is nothing no one could do about it.

Allan Whitley use to say to us, Tan could wake up one morning and say he is bored of the club and bang no more club, thats how Tan is unpredictable.

Also our debt is now around £150mill 3 times our previous debt.

Gavin, the staff down the club walk on egg shells, there is no happiness and our fans are not happy.
The football club is about the community and fans live for the club,but under tan all that is gone, even a few weeks ago you felt the same.

Were not proud anymore of our club.

Tan needs to properly compromise and sit down with fans, not arselickers

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed th debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

A strong opinion there Annis, as always.


What do you think of the points I make in my earlier reply, that the perhaps we are better off now the debt is not as spread amongst many, and the vast majority is owed to one man who has the option too do something about that debt?

Option to do what?

It makes no difference. He isnt likely to write off the debt any more than anyone else is whether it be 1 or 1000 people.

Surely its far more realistic that he will pull the plug on you than gift you a hundred million.

But the same could be said about many football clubs, if their money man walkef away thd club would be 'up shit creek' we are certainly not alone in that respect.

Tan said yesterday that he is willing to talk more to the fans, he named the trust specifically, thats got to be a step forward.

But the same could be said about many football clubs, if their money man walkef away thd club would be 'up shit creek' we are certainly not alone in that respect.

Tan said yesterday that he is willing to talk more to the fans, he named the trust specifically, thats got to be a step forward.

Tan told me to my face two years ago he would compromise and that never happened.

Also Tan is surrounded by yes men, not good.

Yes it could be said about many clubs, but we have one hell of a different owner

Oh and the point on fans feeling down and depressed lately, I have no doubt that is heavily linked to losing so many games, as well as the rebrand issues, nothing cheers a football fan up like a winning streak.

But the same could be said about many football clubs, if their money man walkef away thd club would be 'up shit creek' we are certainly not alone in that respect.

Tan said yesterday that he is willing to talk more to the fans, he named the trust specifically, thats got to be a step forward.

Tan told me to my face two years ago he would compromise and that never happened.

Also Tan is surrounded by yes men, not good.

Yes it could be said about many clubs, but we have one hell of a different owner

The Tan of 2 years ago has gone IMO, he realises we will not bow to his every whim, I cant see him making anymore false promises that he will never be allowed to forget.

But the same could be said about many football clubs, if their money man walkef away thd club would be 'up shit creek' we are certainly not alone in that respect.

Tan said yesterday that he is willing to talk more to the fans, he named the trust specifically, thats got to be a step forward.

They are also up shit creek.

Football is facing a crisis at the moment and there are several clubs that have their futures pinned on one man, however Cardiffs owner seems to be the most volatile of them all and probably also have one of the largest income to debt ratios in Britain.

You have to think about what Tan wants, that is simply his money back. What happens to the club afterwards is irrelevant, he's not even a football fan let alone a Cardiff fan.

So in that respect is it more likely he will close the club down and sell everything, or just write the debt off?

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed the debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by Tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

Annis I totally agree with you. I am just saying why would he change debt to equity with the protests. Not sticking up for him per se just saying in his shoes I would do the same. I think it was more the Tan out that got him to change his mind rather than blue but I have no evidence or inside knowledge of this. Just an opinion.

You and I both know that even had he changed the debt to equity the fans would still have protested.

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed the debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by Tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

Annis I totally agree with you. I am just saying why would he change debt to equity with the protests. Not sticking up for him per se just saying in his shoes I would do the same. I think it was more the Tan out that got him to change his mind rather than blue but I have no evidence or inside knowledge of this. Just an opinion.

You and I both know that even had he changed the debt to equity the fans would still have protested.

Neil, you are always fair in your posts, but there is excuse after excuse by Tan

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed th debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

A strong opinion there Annis, as always.


What do you think of the points I make in my earlier reply, that the perhaps we are better off now the debt is not as spread amongst many, and the vast majority is owed to one man who has the option too do something about that debt?

Some very good points Gavin.


Gavin, Yes its great not to have all those on our back week in week out But in some ways its now worse because we are now dictated to and our club is in the hands of one man who could pull the plug over night if he felt like it and there is nothing no one could do about it.

Allan Whitley use to say to us, Tan could wake up one morning and say he is bored of the club and bang no more club, thats how Tan is unpredictable.

Also our debt is now around £150mill 3 times our previous debt.

Gavin, the staff down the club walk on egg shells, there is no happiness and our fans are not happy.
The football club is about the community and fans live for the club,but under tan all that is gone, even a few weeks ago you felt the same.

Were not proud anymore of our club.

Tan needs to properly compromise and sit down with fans, not arselickers

Annis I think our club has been this way for a long time. Definitely since the Ridsdale era and possibly even to the end of the Sam era for some. The Sheffield Utd game just after black Wednesday I drove back from Anglesey to be at as I thought my club was going to the wall. That was the last time I felt that affinity I think. I can't see myself doing that now. It hasn't been the same club since the FA Cup final.

The debt has risen, but we aren't being pulled on from many directions by vultures, HMRC, Langston, PMG, Other Clubs, Former Board Members, The Bank all wanted a slice of the club, we are in debt to one man, that man being the club's owner who 'could' decide to do something about it 'if' he can get the fans onside.


If he was offering a horrible regime were we had no say and he laughed in the face of dialogue with the fans I would say 'no thanks' but he isn't saying that, at least not now, he is offering change, compromise, its up to us as a group of supporters to stop demanding everything our way from now on, and agree to discuss the matter wity the board, which is now being offered.

Annis and Carl have the power to influence the masses, I think they need to give it some serious consideration for the good of the clubs future.

My opinion on this debt to equity thing is that whilst the overall level of debt has risen under VT it is now debt to one person and that has to be better than owing money left right and centre. Having said that VT did make a promise that once Langston was settled he would make the debt to equity conversion and that would make the club "virtually" debt free. Unfortunately there has been one excuse after another why he couldn't make the conversion, at whatever level,the last being the MM legal action.

Now we get this maybe I'll do some now but we need to concentrate everything on getting back to the PL, What then? Maybe it will be only when the fans agree to a compromise on the team colours and that will mean one thing RED. As I see it failure to get promoted next season will mean more of lets continue to concentrate on getting back to the PL, and if we get promoted we will have gone full circle on the re-brand where the "Compromise" position will be red or I'll withdraw my support. The man is, if nothing else, predictable.

What he cannot understand when he calls for everyone to concentrate on returning to the PL that the very best way is to return the team to it's traditional colours. He has created a massive division within the business where his customers are refusing to accept the change and are protesting at every first team game either by wearing blue or singing about "Always being blue".

OGS has said that he feels ALL of this is transmitting itself onto the team and the field of play and there is only one man who can make this go away and that is VT.

The problem is he is stubborn and does not like losing face but every minute he hangs on to this rediculous re-brand the drive the wedge of division deeper, and that's a massive problem.

In my opinion the re-brand and debt to equity conversion are directly linked because of the initial promise made by VT, but as Gavin says whilst the debt is held by just one man is that the biggest issue? or is getting our team back to it's traditional colours.

In my opinion it's Blue because that will bring "Unity".

The position adopted by supporters has changed dramatically since the initial reluctant acceptance of the rebrand. The majority were willing to take a pragmatic stance and accept it for financial stability and further investment to get to the Premier league. The supporters however, have realised how important the clubs traditional identity was the very essence of supporting your club. The colour and badge is the focal point for the unity of its supporters, we all thought that we could all live with the rebrand as long as the club was secure, yet it has dawned on everyone that victories are somewhat empty, success is not the driving factor in supporting the club, it's more about belonging, unity and feeling part of it, that has disappeared and we have all realised how important it is. Before, anyone says your just feeling that way because the team have been well beaten and we have been relegated, however, this feeling started in our promotion season, we won the league, yet it was an empty experience. Posters above are correct, we haven't accepted the re-brand and therefore Tan can rightfully say that his terms were never accepted so why should he change debt to equity, others are also correct in saying that Tan has not acted on promises he made. It's now a mess, but in my opinion, getting the supporters unified is now the most important aspect in all this as everything relies on that going forward and now because the way things have turned out the only way to do that is to reverse the rebrand.

Debt to equity.

Let me start by saying I would prefer blue, am grateful to TG and VT for the progress we have made as a club. I would prefer that we did all that while in blue but there was no one knocking the door trying to do that for us apart from Tan.

Part of the whole package was a variety of incentives. Most VT has delivered on. The one he hasn't is the debt to equity. Bearing in mind the protests this season against the blue we are clearly not accepting the rebrand. We can't have it both ways and say we reluctantly accepted the rebrand for a debt free club. This being achieved by VT converting the debt to equity. Quite clearly we are not accepting the rebrand. VT is not blind and not a fool. He can see the blue, hear the songs about the blue and even the ones calling him a wanker and Tan out. We regularly embarrass him in front of his peers.

With all the above I wouldn't get myself entrenched long term which is what debt to equity would mean.

If we want debt to equity we have to embrace Tan and the rebrand or hope someone comes along to buy us. There isn't a middle option where he sorts the debt to equity but continues to look a fool. If I'm honest if I was in his position, as a billionaire, owning a club where the majority don't want me and make that clear I would f**k them over. Hopefully he won't do that.

I take it you weren't at the home game against Man City ? Vast majority were red. He just invents excuses not to do it, Malky, not being in the prem etc etc don't be mugged twice

The position adopted by supporters has changed dramatically since the initial reluctant acceptance of the rebrand. The majority were willing to take a pragmatic stance and accept it for financial stability and further investment to get to the Premier league. The supporters however, have realised how important the clubs traditional identity was the very essence of supporting your club. The colour and badge is the focal point for the unity of its supporters, we all thought that we could all live with the rebrand as long as the club was secure, yet it has dawned on everyone that victories are somewhat empty, success is not the driving factor in supporting the club, it's more about belonging, unity and feeling part of it, that has disappeared and we have all realised how important it is. Before, anyone says your just feeling that way because the team have been well beaten and we have been relegated, however, this feeling started in our promotion season, we won the league, yet it was an empty experience. Posters above are correct, we haven't accepted the re-brand and therefore Tan can rightfully say that his terms were never accepted so why should he change debt to equity, others are also correct in saying that Tan has not acted on promises he made. It's now a mess, but in my opinion, getting the supporters unified is now the most important aspect in all this as everything relies on that going forward and now because the way things have turned out the only way to do that is to reverse the rebrand.

Could see it like that or could also see it that as soon as the club reached the premiership the fans changed their mind and went back on the rebrand.

The only fans who come out of this with credit are those that stayed true to blue throughout or those that still are supporters of the red or laissez faire about it for stability that's let's face it in comparison to our past is still there.

Don't care about debt to equality. Would rather be rid off the man

Oh and the point on fans feeling down and depressed lately, I have no doubt that is heavily linked to losing so many games, as well as the rebrand issues, nothing cheers a football fan up like a winning streak.

No mate wrong what has always pissed me off is not losing as im used to that having supported the club for 35 years.its tan rebrand I hated it from day one never accepted it and why cos tan wanted red no other reason at all tan wanted red end of.
So all this shit thats gone on for two years plus is cos tan wanted red.

Well I dont want it and neither would any fan of football for there club ive spoken to fans all over Britain and the general opinion is they would fight against it even if it meant financial insecurities.

Spoke to a fan from chelsea yesterday an older fan a die hard been all over Europe he said hed never want a colour change and would fight it.

Again all this shit cos tan wanted red well stuff im the mans a spoilt rich kid with no clue about football hes made a massive mistake big time wake up to the fact

Debt to equity.

Let me start by saying I would prefer blue, am grateful to TG and VT for the progress we have made as a club. I would prefer that we did all that while in blue but there was no one knocking the door trying to do that for us apart from Tan.

Part of the whole package was a variety of incentives. Most VT has delivered on. The one he hasn't is the debt to equity. Bearing in mind the protests this season against the blue we are clearly not accepting the rebrand. We can't have it both ways and say we reluctantly accepted the rebrand for a debt free club. This being achieved by VT converting the debt to equity. Quite clearly we are not accepting the rebrand. VT is not blind and not a fool. He can see the blue, hear the songs about the blue and even the ones calling him a wanker and Tan out. We regularly embarrass him in front of his peers.

With all the above I wouldn't get myself entrenched long term which is what debt to equity would mean.

If we want debt to equity we have to embrace Tan and the rebrand or hope someone comes along to buy us. There isn't a middle option where he sorts the debt to equity but continues to look a fool. If I'm honest if I was in his position, as a billionaire, owning a club where the majority don't want me and make that clear I would f**k them over. Hopefully he won't do that.

You are so wrong in everything you say here.For the first 18 months you lot and Tan were bragging that only a couple of hundred were against the rebrand so in theory the rebrand was accepted and this was was confirmed by scarfgate and still the debt wasn't sorted,it's only in the last few months people are up in arms about it simply because nothing has been done and fans feels lied to,your argument is nonsense and holds no water...he promised to do it so it should have been done.

Some gd points lads I think your right ppl haven't accepted the rebrand and nor should they have to,but when he said he'd make us debt free ppl seen what that could do for the club and as it was put as red or dead ppl accepted it,we'll some did,there was a gd bit of red in the crowd at ccs v man city,problem is he's not kept up to his side the deal,this is the major factor in ppl going against the rebrand.Everyone wants a blue kit but we as a club gave tan the go ahead for the red and if we was debt free and he had sacked malkay I don't think there'd be as much of a reaction tan played into the hands of some ppl by not converting and that helped drive the blue protests they had the debt to equity to fall back on.I think some ppl would still be protesting if we was debt free,until we get a new owner I think the best thing we can hope is (1)a blue an red kit (2) tan doesn't just fuk off he's now our ocean finance and while he's bank rolling the club like it or not we need to work with him to find some sort of middle ground until we are under new ownership.we can't continue like we have this season or we'll be stuck with him even longer.what's the other option ?? He goes and we end up being rapped up cos of the debt,I think we need to focus on pushing this compromise for next season and then if we get that then get behind the team and hopefully soon as we are up he goes let's be honest we'd all love to see another promotion push this yr again and sooner we are up sooner we get rid of tan

Not another excuse why Tan does not have to convert

Why should we accept the stripping of our identity and any more degrading of our club?

Also nearly 2 years ago it looked to Tan that City fans had accepted the rebrand and even Tan said that its only the minority that have not accepted, but Tan never changed the debt to equity then did he? a fact.

Also most of the debt that we have now has been created by Tan and his arselickers a fact.

How can people still stick up for him? All entitled to their opinions, but I am shocked.

Why is our stadium 2 years later a sea of BLUE? because fans have realised they were blackmailed and they should never have gone along with the lies.

Annis I totally agree with you. I am just saying why would he change debt to equity with the protests. Not sticking up for him per se just saying in his shoes I would do the same. I think it was more the Tan out that got him to change his mind rather than blue but I have no evidence or inside knowledge of this. Just an opinion.

You and I both know that even had he changed the debt to equity the fans would still have protested.

Neil, you are always fair in your posts, but there is excuse after excuse by Tan

... from the day of the rebrand until now, i have not or will ever buy any rebrand mrechandise......i attend games wearing blue, and have done throughout.............
on the other hand, i havent protested,dont hate tan,and dont sing those helpful wanker chants.......
how have i accepted the rebrand?........hardly anyone has.///so which side of the bargain have we as fans kept......we buy STs..........thats it.

Did Tan actually say he would convert ALL debt to equity at any point? How much equity is there in the club? You can't keep pumping money in and expect the value of the club to increase. Is the club worth £150 million on top of what Tan has paid for his previous shares. If it is a loan, which I believe is interest free, then wiping £50 million from it, is a massive undertaking. These are questions and not an informed opinion.